This is in regard to the Quicksilver 60 monos I got new on 11/11/2020: I was getting a *little* brightness or glare which I attributed to the Esotar tweeters in my Merlin VSM speakers. They are still the best amps I've found for the Merlins I've had since 2007 and I've tried a BUNCH of them, solid state and mostly tube.
I've been upgrading fuses in my other components and eventually decided to take a look inside the Quicksilvers. Much to my surprise I found Synergistic Research Red! I immediately ordered a pair of Purple to try - that's what I just stuck in the Thor TA-1000 preamp and ordered for my PS Audio DirectStream DAC.
In the interim I found a pair of HiFi Tuning Gold fuses I bought cheap on closeout a couple of years ago. Stuck those in the QS 60 mono's and WOW! So much more body in the mid-bass and mids, FAR better bass extension and the rest of the music is still there. I have to believe that the Reds were a step up from a $1 glass fuse but the HiFi Tuning absolutely blows the Synergistic Research "Quantum" Red fuse away. I'll keep them as spares.
Now I'm KEENLY interested to see how SR Purple fuses compare to the obsolete HiFi Tuning gold in my beloved QS monos.
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So, anybody has compared MC75 with QS 88?
One of my friends had MC75 and it was pretty good, but I was not overwhelmed. Another friend has one of old QS amps and it really sound good.
My last tube power amp was BAT VK60, replaced by Plinius SA102. I prefer Plinius, but now I miss tube amps. My pre is Audible Illusions M3B. I wonder whether QS 88 will match well with AI. |
@augwest That is so strange there are no LEDs. I got this unit, new, last April and it has them. How weird. |
@decooney - Yeah, that heavily modified Thor TA-1000 is a special preamp, with a sound I would describe as detailed and authoritative, and neither bright nor dark. Its separate power supply probably weighs more than most components I’ve owned, but I could care less about the form factor.
These are NEW QS 60s received from the factory TODAY with all stock tubes, all brand new. Psvanes have yet to arrive.
One odd thing is that while both the website and owner’s manual reference an LED for setting the bias, there most assuredly is no such thing on my amps! Instead there are ports for voltmeter probes (regular ones, not the 1/4" jacks on the old QS amps).
Since the manual provides no actual numbers, I don’t know what bias current to target. They both ramped up to 70 mA after I installed the factory tubes so I figure that must be close - I’ll call the factory tomorrow. Does anyone here know the actual factory recommendation for THIS current-gen. Quicksilver "60 Watt" mono amp (there have been various QS KT88 amps over the years)? I don’t care about the LED indicator; as an Electrical Engineer and irrepressible tinkerer I would rather use a meter anyway.
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@augwest The QS mono tube amps paired with your recapped Thor tube preamp should be fun. Appears VCap was a common upgrade in your preamp, photo here, and nice wide and thick copper strips on the main board, cool. :) https://www.audioasylumtrader.com/images/y2013/12/100421/FullBoard.jpgIF it’s a new set of QS monos, give them and internal caps time to burn in with stock tubes or the PSVANE if you get them soon enough. The PSVane BT Mark Its should sound pretty smooth, just helped a friend put them in an integrated amp. After the input tubes burn in on the QS amps, (if new stock tubes) you may want to update those and store the stock ones away. Also, kinda depends on your preamp and tubes too and how bright or smooth they are. It’s a basic balancing act on both ends. Is that brand new or used (burned-in) monos and what input/signal and output tubes are in them now? |
Hi @augwest I have the Quicksilver 60 Watt monoblocks and to deal with some brightness, and on the suggestion of @decooney (here), I went with the Genelex Gold Lyon KT77s. I've been happy with them. At this point, I'm pretty sure that my low ceiling is the main cause of the brightness (I've put nice tubes in other sockets, too, so it's not them), but my sense was the the 77s helped. FWIW, I have a QS Line Stage preamp with good NOS tubes in it, too, and an R2R DAC.
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@ gochurchgo: I will receive a pair of new Quicksilver 60 Watt monoblocks next week. I intend to pair it with a Thor TA-1000 preamp with significant upgrades including about a dozen Vcaps. The other preamp I have is nearly as good, but it's homemade, unfused and based on subminiature tubes so I don't know how helpful that is. Come to think of it, the Thor is completely obscure, too - but interesting! :o)
After reading for a couple of hours, I have ordered a matched quad of Psvane Black Treasure KT88-T Mark II to try as an initial upgrade to the stock Chinese tubes. Other contenders may include the Tube Store Preferred Series ($280 per quad) or Sophia Electric KT88-ST (blue coke bottle, BUT starting at $500 per quad!). JJ KT88 are also available for about $175/quad but I'm not sure they are at the same level; Merlin VSM speakers will reveal as much detail as they can get. The VERY low end is handled by a JL Audio Fathom sub.
Any suggestions on the best KT88 to run in a straightforward pentode amp running some very neutral and musical sounding Merlin VSM floorstanding monitors? Very slight tendency to brightness, with the wrong things upstream, but mostly to honesty (no gripes after 13 years with the same speakers!).
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@fjs1155 "I replaced the JJ KT88s with Tung Sol KT120s and the difference was remarkable." fjs1155, If you can recall, did you find the stock JJ KT88 output tubes to sound kinda lean and edgy and less musical in your QS KT88 Monos? Asking for a friend who’s not yet researched replacing them with something like Genelex Gold Lyon KT77s or GL KT88s, or PSVANE CV-181-Ts, or Shuguang Black Treasure tubes. Thinking this might help... wondering if you tried any of these with your Mono 88s in addition to your current Tung Sol KT120s. |
I just bought a used pair of 88 monos and am blown away by the way they've transformed my system. Mike Sanders knows
exactly
what he's doing and offered up some great advice...just email him if needed. He'll respond quickly. They've added a whole new level of transparency and sophistication to the sound which I considered to already be good. Granted, I'm coming from a McCormick DNA 2.0 rev B, stepping down in juice from 600 to 80
watts and moving to tubes nonetheless, these babies are flat out fantastic! I replaced the JJ KT88s with Tung Sol KT120s and the difference was remarkable. The music became more life-like, with improved dynamics and bass by adding authority. I also replaced Electro Harmonix 12AX7 with Tung Sol and finally the GE 12BH7A with Sylvania (which had an unexpected massive impact). Now some or all of these tube replacements could have been because of age and since I bought the units used, I won't truly know. I give these monos extremely high marks for transparency, width of sound-stage, organic sound, imaging, precision of instrument placement, transient speed, mid-range lushness, harmonic depth and bass extension and control.
If there is an average quality to these amps, I would rate depth of sound-stage to be just "adequate". It gets the job done here, but I think I expected a little more from tube monos...still not a complaint in any regard. The bass is what struck me most since I didn't expect this level of performance with reference to my previous "goliath" SS amp. In fact, the 88's outperform the McCormack even in this area and not just by a little, by far! Don't let anyone tell you that you need the watts to make deep, full bass sound extended and beautifully timed with bloom. The depth and control these mono's offer is the best I've heard and again... solid state over 30 years of audiophile listening. For the record, I'm running these with the Musical Fidelity NU Vista 3D CD, Audio Research LS25 MKII, Running Springs Duke and Haley, Auralic Vega, Wired for Sound modified Sonos Connect,
Audio Physic Virgo 5s, DH Labs Red Wave Rhodium power cables, and all Audience AU24 SE and SX interconnect and speaker cables.
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@zardozmike
Recently helped a friend with an older Jolida integrated who was enamored with the sound of the upgraded QS monos. After some pushing and prodding by a few us and a local dealer buddy - removed his over-provisioned KT150 tubes (he mistakenly tried in that amp) to go back to different KT88s in his Jolida that was originally designed to run KT88s at lower plate voltage, bias, etc. KT150s were a waste and not running in their optimized state in THAT older Jolida. And of course, newer Jolida avail for KT150s though, different topic of course. Back to KT88s....
Popped in New Plate Current Matched Quad of Psvane KT88-T Classic MKII Series tubes. Viva sells them too.. Wallah, kinda got lucky, and his older Jolida sounded like a completely different amplifier, was a nice surprise. Not sure if your QS would respond the same but it was worth trying different KT88s in this other amp, fwiw. He loves the amp now... |
I'm going to experiment with the kt88's also, they've been my go to power tubes forever. A really solid performer. |
@zardomike
IMO, good KT88s paired with nice small signal/driver tubes for those amps. Not a big fan of the KT90s or KT120 tubes in a few different QS amps, could just be me. Others may hear differently. |
The electrolytics that are problematic are not the coupling caps. They are both 600v 50 uf rated. I would speak first with Mike Sanders if or when there is an issue. The + leads on both fried manifesting in a howling sound from the amp. I performed the replacement of these caps until my friend who has regular contact with Mike Sanders performed the final fix which involved some minor mods to acommodate a beefier power supply and better caps.
I went through 5 different pre-amps before settling on a Bill Thalmann upgraded CJ PV9a which complements the QS amps in my set-up very nicely. I am using the Tung Sol KT 150 tubes which I prefer over the KT 88s, ymmv. A matter of trying both. I am unfamiliar with the KT 90 and KT 120 tubes in these amps.
Fsonicsmith you are spot on in recognizing the importance of the power and output transformer in tube amp designs. I am certain this is the primary reason why all QS amps are all so consistently excellent across the board. The mid monos are a great value at the price as is the 20 watt integrated. I have had zero problems other than the cap issue noted over the past 5 years. Yeah, Mike doesn't seem too keen or that it is necessary to "upgrade" but it must be noted, these products are still built to a price point and better performance can be gotten using better components. I'm with you on that deconney.
Enjoy your Zardozmike, you made a great choice!
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Just received the amps today hooked them up, biased the power tubes to the recommended 40a. It came with kt88 and kt90 tubes, installed the kt90's. What tubes are you running in your amps, is there anything else to know? |
For those of you with QS amps, what preamp are you running with them? |
I replaced my high-end Cary tube amps with QS Mono 120s with KT150 tubes. I like 88s too in some ways, shared DNA which led to Mono 120 design of course. At first, I thought these Mono 120s were a slight downgrade for me, even using my better Cary SLP-98 preamp with really good 6SN7 tubes. Had to try it. Keep reading. Had an upgrade vision too for later on. It has paid off. With some good burn-in time and patience, it has paid off big time in stock form, but just like any amp, there is more room for growth with slight tweaks that can turn these amps in to giant killers!
After 100hrs burn in, ditched the entry level stock EI and JJ small signal/driver tubes and rotated in various vintage NOS tubes and tried PSVANE too with much improved results - way better. Several here on Agon messaged me since and have done the same, like a good underground group does. :) Same applies to Silver 88s, Mono 60s. Caution bringing up caps with Mike. It’s not his business plan I gather now days. He shoots for reliability and consistency #1, "no changes" i get it. Some upgrades can help - sometimes. Proceed at your own risk.
After tube rotation of small tubes, the stock coupling caps are not bad, Mike likes them a lot. I was "okay" with the stock caps. Against conservative judgement (don’t tell Mike - haha, he’ll get pissed off), I upgraded my coupling caps in the Mono 120s to a really high end set of Mundorf EVO Supreme Silver Golds, same as used in $22k Cary amps. Just HAD to know. Bugged me. And, wow, sure enough - it brings the QS amps to a whole new level of 3 dimensional sound, tone, texture. The QS amps have the bones for sure. Enjoy. |
You can not go wrong with any Quicksilver amp..... built like tanks, simple, reliable. I have a pair of Mid Monos and they are awesome. Listening to them right now ! I have had a few tubes fail but never a problem, the fuse reacted on each occasion. They are seven years old and see a lot of use.
I just bought Mike's new headphone amp sight unseen because of my experience with the Mid Monos. It exceeded my expectations, it is incredible in both sound quality and build .
As with anything used it's a gamble , but his gear is so reliable the risk is minimal, especially if bought from a place like the music room |
Have owned the Silver 88’s for the past 5 years. I have a friend who had them previous to my purchase and still does. There is an issue with two of the electrolytics that I was fore warned by my friend, not if but when they would fail. Well finally 3 years in they failed. Mike Sanders mailed a replacement set which I replaced. Mike offered a long term fix to this problem if I would send the amps to him. Luckily for me, this was remedied by my friend who with Mike’s blessing did a final fix, improvement in the power delivery was significant, an added benefit and surprise! So it was more than just a "fix".
So as to the amps overall performance; I’ve owned ARC, Berning, CJ, Trancendent, and McIntosh tube gear and am familiar with many other esoteric/boutique amps both tube and SS. I’ve listened to the 88s for the past 5 years in my current set-up with the latest 3a DeCapo speakers. "For the money" in the right set-up one can expect reference performance well beyond what you might expect at the price. Also of importance, to me at least, point to point wiring which means long term reliability and flexibility. These are great amps and depending on the speaker might be well worthy of consideration. Amazing resolution about as good as you might ever expect, certainly that is my impression. I can’t say enough about these amps at this price point. Beyond my above comments, all amps are system dependent with a given speaker in a given system so the usual cavaets. Do your homework.
It is nice to see such a well-written note that takes into account the relative nature of this hobby and system matching. Thank you. Out of interest, what is entailed with the "final fix"? I gather you are referring to the output caps. Is this correct? On a different topic, my humble op is that a tube amp's largest limiting factor is the quality of the input and output transformers, particularly the former. That is where this amp likely shines. |
Have owned the Silver 88’s for the past 5 years. I have a friend who had them previous to my purchase and still does. There is an issue with two of the electrolytics that I was fore warned by my friend, not if but when they would fail. Well finally 3 years in they failed. Mike Sanders mailed a replacement set which I replaced. Mike offered a long term fix to this problem if I would send the amps to him. Luckily for me, this was remedied by my friend who with Mike’s blessing did a final fix, improvement in the power delivery was significant, an added benefit and surprise! So it was more than just a "fix".
So as to the amps overall performance; I’ve owned ARC, Berning, CJ, Trancendent, and McIntosh tube gear and am familiar with many other esoteric/boutique amps both tube and SS. I’ve listened to the 88s for the past 5 years in my current set-up with the latest 3a DeCapo speakers. "For the money" in the right set-up one can expect reference performance well beyond what you might expect at the price. Also of importance, to me at least, point to point wiring which means long term reliability and flexibility. These are great amps and depending on the speaker might be well worthy of consideration. Amazing resolution about as good as you might ever expect, certainly that is my impression. I can’t say enough about these amps at this price point. Beyond my above comments, all amps are system dependent with a given speaker in a given system so the usual cavaets. Do your homework. |
I have a pair of QS Silver Seventies. Great sounding and trouble free for the past eleven years since purchasing them. A good friend of mine sold his Audio-Research amp and bought the QS M120 amps and he is very happy. So I guess I’m a QS fanboy! |
It seems to me that they were available at the right time. When my mac’s started to act up Quicksilver was the first search. I always liked the V4’s and thought there might be a used pair looking for a home. I used to live in Sacramento and had visited Mike at the factory. I like to buy from people like him. |
@zardozmike please let us know what you think of your new amps.
Quicksilver amps are all very good sounding and outstanding values, IMHO.
Yes Mike has updated over the years but he’s never made anything you’d regret buying if you like pure tube amps. Running a powered sub is always a good solution to bass issues with tube amps.
I have a pair of Quicksilver Silver 60s, he only made them for 2 years. I’ve enjoyed them for 15 years.
TMR tend to have some pretty high prices. I just bought an amp from them about 3 weeks ago and it was priced at max market value. The good news is it looks like it was never used and I'm happy with it.
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Good for you and enjoy them.
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They're gone cause I bought them. |
I owned the Silvers for 2 years and had many blown fuses with a pair of very sanely driven Spendor SP100s. The mids were good as expected, but the bass was very tube "plummy".
I had a much better run with an 8 watt 300b. Much better bass. I wasn’t very impressed with the Quicksilvers. |
@fsonicsmith
...has quite a fan base if not a minor cult following.
+1. True on both counts. :), and they are gone, sold! The reason the silvers command a higher price is the chassis, plugs and inputs on the back with power on the front. Same as Mono 120s have now. Install good signal tubes and great coupling caps, and they become long term keepers; helps to reduce amp rotation syndrome :) |
I’m considering buying a set of these from the music room in Erie, Colorado. Does anyone have experience with this amplifier. My McIntosh MC75’s need some work and I’m going to have them refurbished to factory specifications. I want something in the meantime to use in my system. Thanks for your input.
Mike OK, I first must admit that I have no experience with this amp. But, I will tell you that for fifteen years or so I have been looking to buy a pair of these. Keep in mind that Mike Sanders has discontinued a fair number of his prior products and this is one of them. These amps, more so than the other discontinued models, has quite a fan base if not a minor cult following. If your speakers are suitable-and I assume they are given your Mac75’s, you are going to get great sound. The price, imho, is kind of steep at only $1,000 off of msrp but this dealer (which I have now bookmarked, thanks!) must be factoring in their lack of current production and demand. Let me put it this way-I would never snipe you-but if you don’t want them, pm me and I will call Erie and try to negotiate for them. Seriously. |
No experience with the 88s, but found myself in a similar situation with a pair of VTL MB125s that I was going to have rebuilt by the manufacturer. Bought a new pair of QS M120s on Audiogon from the original buyer who due to a death in his family never took them out of the boxs. Long story short, I loved them and sold the VTLs as is and never looked back. Enjoy the music
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