George, I read a thread you commented on about amps for Sasha 2s, but the direction got derailed when Troy came in and it deteriorated into the merits of Troy providing insights rather than the content of the insights. I have seen other posts by you and I respect what you have said. I have been flailing around with my system the last two years. I've been doing my best to ferret out gear that makes sense, and I have made great progress, but its been messy. Synergy though reading reviews is elusive!! I ended up recently with Sasha 2s, sourced only by a Vivaldi Stack, Modwright LS300 (had to get tubes to tame the dCS and Sasha 2 combo) and JC1+ amps, Everest with all Shunyata Sigma V2 and V1 and Alpha V2 power cords. Some gear sits on Townshend platforms, Sashas on Podiums, and IC and SC loom is Townshend F1s. My Sasha 2 amp journey started with the amp I had which was a Naim DR300 NAP which was not very detailed and not powerful enough for the sasha 2s, but a fun amp on my old B and W 801s. I then bought the JC1+s and was very impressed. Wife finally loved the sound of my system again. I did think the JC1+ lacked a bit of resolution, but it was a sweet and powerful sound with a strong lower foundation that was a joy in musical terms to listen to. I then got weak and started to give in to the dogging on the JC1+s that is quite easy to come across. Last Friday I took delivery of a NIB Luxman m900u. Figuring if it was as musical as everyone claimed I'd buy a second one and be done with my amp search. It's been burning in for about 100 hours now. It's got more resolution, and a deeper soundstage, and while it's bass is musical it's bass light. The real problem is that in my system its too bright on female vocals, strings and piano. Wife wants the JC1+s back but I've heard that resolution and depth and I can't unhear it. Guys a know on line now say its a bad match for Sasha 2s, two guys say I need Ampzilla 2000 V2s, some say Modwright KSE 150, others say the Modwright or two are not good enough. I have avoided tube amps my whole life, but? My budget is around 22K for amps, so two used m900us were perfect. Do you think the Luxman will burn in/burn burn/off the brightness? I am over using cables as tuning devices, but It did occur to me to roll the 7308 Amperex USN in the LS300 for some British warm tubes to compensate. Can you shed any light on my situation? I'm pretty beat up and disappointed right now. Often on this forum I hear about all these product recommendations for products and companies I have never heard of. I don't want Macintosh like brands but also not any tiny start ups that are not even fully rolled out. Thanks for any help.
woke-curious about where things stand for you now. i ask as i have the sasha 2's and the bartok matched with CJ ART mono block amps and an ARC CD-7. I use the gaia1's under the speakers and was amazed by the difference. i see you were there and then introduced the townshends across your system. still delighted by the results? i'm thinking about the townshends for the bartok. separately, i'm presuming you upgraded the software on the bartok...I was completely blown away by the change in the sound from that-talk about bang for the buck! Did you have a similar experience? thx,
Someone brought to my attention the Doshi 180M V3s that were shown with Sasha 2s (and other Wilsons) at multiple audio shows. a few years back. Does anyone have an informed opinion on this combo?
wokeuptobose OP I find it interesting that the Pass amps have only come up once or twice here.
Pass amps are complimentary push/pull Mosfet output stage, generally they don’t do very low impedances as good as equal in size complimentary push/pull Bi-Polars (BJT) can eg: Gryphon,Krell,D’Ago etc etc.
I have been using for over 2 years Exogal’s Comet/Ion which is not Class D but is a solid state PreAmp/Amp PowerDAC to drive my Wilson Sasha2s and I haven’t ANY reason to change/upgrade unless or until Exogal comes out with an upgraded product. But just don’t take my firsthand experience to go on for Dagogo’s Doug Schroeder has reviewed as well as many other reviews of both the Exogal Comet and Ion and Doug’s bottom line is that the Comet/Ion is a game changing paradigm shift. The Comet/Ion combination is very musical and drives the Sasha2s effortlessly which I can listen to for hours on end with no fatigue. This gear is what I consider a Giant Killer and indeed punches way above its price point. Unfortunately the Comet is now out of production so you can only buy it used although the Ion is still in stock. I look forward to what Exogal does next.
I find it interesting that the Pass amps have only come up once or twice here. Has Jay killed the Pass reputation as he pivoted away from being in love with them? I have never owned or heard them, but they were an aspirational brand for me. I understand they are not the end all be all for resolution and they run hot, but they are supposed to be very musical. Thoughts on Pass?
I would recommend listening to the Audionet MAX amps. I have not heard the m900u, but the MAX’s easily bested the JC-1’s and BHK 250 on BW 802N’s, Revel Salon 2’s and my current YG Haileys.
I heard big Audio Research monoblocks(forgot Model) with Sasha DAW about a year ago. Sound was very good. But I still liked the Sonus Faber with MAC 1K monoblocks. Not usually a MAC fan but I liked that better than the Wilsons. Wilsons seemed distant and laid back but quite accurate. Might have just needed a little volume. No subs with these. I believe this was in Chicago.
Wilson speakers sound amazing with Dan D’Agostino amps
It was once said, I "think" by John Atkinson, Wilson in the early days voiced their speakers with big ARC tubes, but in the last 15 years they’ve been voicing them with D’Agostino designed amps Krell and then D’Ago’s own when he left Krell. That’s why when I hear my friends Alexia and another last model Watt/ Puppy "8"? They both sound stunning wi the Gryphon’s as they are in the same vain as the Krell’s and D’Ago, wattage doublers right down to 2ohms except I believe even the big Gryphon’s even better, as they have even more fixed bias Class-A.
You have the perfect front end and the perfect speakers. Wilson Audio speakers sound better using their own crossover than biamped. Wilson speakers sound amazing with Dan D'Agostino amps. There aren't many amplifiers that can resolve what a dCS Vivaldi stack puts out.
Yes, the general comments about the M900u are justifiably positive in so many ways. But when people talk about "warmer" with it, I think they are just reacting to its midrange, not really addressing its bass foundation. When I posted about it not gelling with my TAD's I did get a few acknowledgements that it isn't exactly a robust bass amp. It's a great amp if matched with the right speakers, I would heartily believe. I just didn't experience that match.
I had an ARC Ref 6 but moved to a Boulder 2110 preamp. It wasn’t close. The Boulder is in a totally different league. Even the 1110. The ARC is good, but I felt like it didn’t have the resolution that the Wilson are capable of. Btw, I am using a dCS Rossini for digital. I couldn’t be happier with the dCS/Boulder/Boulder/Wilson setup.
Wow, you just nailed it! I am smitten with parts of the Luxman, but the match with the Wilsons is not what I want. Yes, the Wilsons in my room need a warm support system. I really appreciate you taking the time to share your experience, as I am confident in what I hear, but it didn't jibe with what I read on line about the m900u "sound". Thanks for your insight!
I shared your experience with the Luxman M900u. It has some great appeal with the clarity of the soundstage and the musical info that it digs out, especially compared to the VAC Phi200 and then the PS Audio BHK 300 mono's that I had been using to drive my TAD CR-1's (4 ohm minimum in resistance). There was so much to like in the Luxman that I wanted to keep, but it did show up "bass light" in my system. The TAD's need some warming up, so "bass light" is a move in the wrong direction for me. I moved to a D'Agostino S250 stereo amp and I love the match with my TAD's. I bought a used one for ~$21k, which squeezes into your budget. It has grunt and bass foundation, without doubt, but it also surpassed the Luxman in terms of musical info and soundstaging, just being more convincing overall. And its midrange is very good for any amp, and the best SS that I have experienced. I don't know the Wilson Sasha 2's, but my general impression of Wilson speakers is that they, too, benefit from a warmer rest of the system. I know they are famous for unforgiving impedance curves, which probably exacerbate the issues with the Luxman's bass. D'Agostino could address these concerns nicely.
I have been in contact with Audio Research and in their showroom they have used Wilson Alexia 2's and Wilson also uses Audio Research in their facility as far as pairings go.
If you want Class A look at the Pass Labs XA 60.5 or 60.8 (or up the chain XA) monos. Pure Class A, push much above the rated power and handle some of the tougher Wilson loads with no issues.
gerryah930, that is VERY helpful. Thanks. I think we have similar sound goals. I heard the DAW and loved it, the Sasha 2 purchase was my practical side winning out. I still believe the 2 is a very promising speaker, maybe matching components is even more important with it than the DAW. I've found it's very sensitive to what it's fed, hence my quest. The Naim DR 300 was similar to the GS150 in that it wasn't enough for the Sasha 2s. You are not the first person who loves the Sasha with the bigger ARC mono amps. I found the ARC REF 10 when I had it to be very "non-tube like" in its sound. How do you evaluate the 250SE and 160M sound with the Sasha 2s. I have little doubt they will be ideal with the DAW. I think the 2s need an amp with a certain profile. I like most of the m900u sound especially the airy sound, just not this bright on female voices thing. Did you hear that or it that my ears/room/system in your opinion? It still may burn off. Jays Audio Lab is on the record saying that he liked the 160S over the 160M. Do you have an opinion? I do not always agree with Jay for what its worth. Thanks so much for sharing this relevant experience!
I have Sasha 2's but am transitioning to Sasha DAWs. I do not know if this helpful or not. I have used the following amplifiers, and my experiences with each: 1. ARC GS150 driven by McIntosh 275: Not enough grunt; 2. Luxman M900u solid state driven by Luxman 900 control preamp: Too slickly musical for my tastes, I missed the tube grain; 3. ARC 250SE tube monoblocks driven by Luxman CL1000 preamp: Great sound, speakers controlled well - great bass, midrange and treble; 4. ARC 160M tube monoblocks driven by Luxman CL1000 preamp: My dream system, especially after Sasha DAWs arrive next week.
I should add that I do not stream or play vinyl - I use an Esoteric 01-XD SACD player as source with an external 10MHz master clock. All cables top quality. AC power is pure, direct from the transformer. Dedicated, well engineered speaker room in basement of a large house in rural Michigan. The sound now is lovely!
Yes, for sure. I'm not at all green when it comes to my system. I want all the class A I can get. I ran my Krell KSA turned on for 28 years straight!!!
Yes that would be interesting, though it was the lighter in the bass, and going direct I feel could be even lighter again going direct without the bass bloom of a tube pre to aid it. BTW the bias switch on the back of JC1's was it on high???
I sold myself on spending so much on the Vivaldi by thinking I could sell my ARC REF10 and put the money toward the Vivaldi. I tried and tried to like it. In fact I had two others listen to my system without revealing what I was changing. It is slightly more revealing going direct, but its harsh. It sounds digital. The Vivaldi does have all the tools to match the output level so you always run it near wide open, but its too analytical on it's own. I then tried a passive and that improved the sound, but still to much. It was adding the LS300 with the tubes that made my system so musical and enjoyable. I rolled in Amperex USN 7308s and Mazda rectifiers from Brent Jesse and it was very nice. I realize I'm going round and round here, but I had a great combo, I just thought maybe there was more. There is, but with the m900u it's too bright.
I take it wokeup you used the JC1+’s in high Class-A bias mode??, Because in normal bias mode they won’t be as sweet sounding. (to your wife) As they get a more etched (can be described by some as more detailed) Class-B sound to them then .
******* Also this is a big one for me, if you have a volume control on your Vivaldi dac, try driving the JC1’s direct with it. (no Modwright LS300 preamp you can sell it) I always find this so much better (unless the dac is tube output, then there can be an impedance mismatch.)
Just checked yes it does! and you can set the dac max volume level, so the volume at near max is for the very loudest you will listen to, that way there no chance of "bit stripping"
DCS Audio: Its enhanced digital volume control allows direct connection to a power amplifier, removing the need for a separate preamp, and its maximum output can be set to one of four levels to suit a range of amplifier and speaker combinations.
After doing this, I’ll be surprised if it’s not the best you’ve heard.
And your dac has a wonderful low output impedance at 52ohm, so it can drive long interconnects to your amps if you want them next to your speakers with short speaker wire.
Thanks, that makes sense. I won't be getting another one.
I don't think vertical bi-amping is a possibility as the Sashas have only the one pair of binding posts down low. I'm certain the m900u matches beautifully with some speakers, just not mine. I will give it till Saturday then if its still bright I will put the JC1+s back in and offer the Luxman for sale. Someone will be happy...NIB when I got it, 200 hours of burn in now. The Gryphon EVO is just too much of everything for me at this point in my life, but I'd love to hear it here! Several HIFI friends are suggesting, ARC 150, ARC 160 S, Modwright KSE150 single or pair, VAC Signature 200 iQ single or pair, Ampzilla 2000 V2, and BAT VK255SE. My goal is to keep the attributes of the JC1+, but add greater resolution, deeper soundstage and more air, max budget it 22K. Ideas? Thoughts?
I think George is suggesting that my complaint about the Luxman (bright sound on female vocals, strings and piano is caused by the Luxman not being able to drive the 2 Ohm load of the Sasha
Sorry, what I means is that the JC1+ can push more current than the Lux and has more Class-A, therefore filling out the lower registers more than the Lux, that's probably why your wife likes it more. As for getting another Lux and bridging it I said don't, as when you bridge amps the first thing you loose is stability into low impedances (Sasha has 2ohms)!!! So don't bridge is what I say. But vertical bi-amp instead. https://imgbb.com/M8gRTS3
Thanks, I will look into BAT, my friend has had them before and likes them. He suggested them and I should have looked more seriously. Although the VAC 200iq signature looks pretty interesting if I were to go down the tube route. Need 2 of them?? Lots of tubes!
George, this is where I get tripped up on amp specifications. I think George is suggesting that my complaint about the Luxman (bright sound on female vocals, strings and piano is caused by the Luxman not being able to drive the 2 Ohm load of the Sasha 2s. Luxman publishes the following in their literature..."M-900u has not only acquired sufficient rated output of 150 W + 150 W (8Ω), 300 W + 300 W (4Ω) but also achieved instantaneous maximum output of up to 1,200 W + 1,200 W (1Ω). They open the paragraph with the claim that it is linear to 1ohm. (I think they mean peaks not continuous, but it's not clear). What do I not understand? Is it a current/power issue that is creating the sibilance in the Sasha 2s, or is it something else?
Last Friday I took delivery of a NIB Luxman m900u. It’s got more resolution, and a deeper soundstage, and while it’s bass is musical it’s bass light.
Do you plan to bridge these amps into monoblocks if you get the second one? then don’t!!!, with 2ohm load of the Sasha they will probably oscillate and blow up. If you do get a second one, then vertically bi-amp them https://ibb.co/M8gRTS3
My budget is around 22K for amps
Seriously look at Gryphon Antillion Evo, they have switchable Class-A bias on the run from the front panel to suit all tastes, my preference with Wilson Alexia is high bias, but medium is also very good. https://gryphon-audio.dk/shop/power-amplifiers/antileon-evo-stereo/
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