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questions for georgehifi and others about powering my Wilson Sasha2s

Conversation with georgehifiArchive this

George, I read a thread you commented on about amps for Sasha 2s, but the direction got derailed when Troy came in and it deteriorated into the merits of Troy providing insights rather than the content of the insights.  I have seen other posts by you and I respect what you have said. I have been flailing around with my system the last two years. I've been doing my best to ferret out gear that makes sense, and I have made great progress, but its been messy. Synergy though reading reviews is elusive!! I ended up recently with Sasha 2s, sourced only by a Vivaldi Stack, Modwright LS300 (had to get tubes to tame the dCS and Sasha 2 combo) and JC1+ amps, Everest with all Shunyata Sigma V2 and V1 and Alpha V2 power cords. Some gear sits on Townshend platforms, Sashas on Podiums, and IC and SC loom is Townshend F1s. My Sasha 2 amp journey started with the amp I had which was a Naim DR300 NAP which was not very detailed and not powerful enough for the sasha 2s, but a fun amp on my old B and W 801s. I then bought the JC1+s and was very impressed. Wife finally loved the sound of my system again. I did think the JC1+ lacked a bit of resolution, but it was a sweet and powerful sound with a strong lower foundation that was a joy in musical terms to listen to. I then got weak and started to give in to the dogging on the JC1+s that is quite easy to come across.  Last Friday I took delivery of a NIB Luxman m900u. Figuring if it was as musical as everyone claimed I'd buy a second one and be done with my amp search. It's been burning in for about 100 hours now. It's got more resolution, and a deeper soundstage, and while it's bass is musical it's bass light. The real problem is that in my system its too bright on female vocals, strings and piano. Wife wants the JC1+s back but I've heard that resolution and depth and I can't unhear it. Guys a know on line now say its a bad match for Sasha 2s, two guys say I need Ampzilla 2000 V2s, some say Modwright KSE 150, others say the Modwright or two are not good enough. I have avoided tube amps my whole life, but? My budget is around 22K for amps, so two used m900us were perfect. Do you think the Luxman will burn in/burn burn/off the brightness? I am over using cables as tuning devices, but It did occur to me to roll the 7308 Amperex USN in the LS300 for some British warm tubes to compensate. Can you shed any light on my situation? I'm pretty beat up and disappointed right now. Often on this forum I hear about all these product recommendations for products and companies I have never heard of. I don't want Macintosh like brands but also not any  tiny start ups that are not even fully rolled out. Thanks for any help.
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Showing 10 responses by wokeuptobose

wokeuptobose's avatar
wokeuptobose OP
118 posts
 
Thanks, I will look into BAT, my friend has had them before and likes them. He suggested them and I should have looked more seriously. Although the VAC 200iq  signature looks pretty interesting if I were to go down the tube route. Need 2 of them?? Lots of tubes!

George, this is where I get tripped up on amp specifications. I think George is suggesting that my complaint about the Luxman (bright sound on female vocals, strings and piano is caused by the Luxman not being able to drive the 2 Ohm load of the Sasha 2s. Luxman publishes the following in their literature..."M-900u has not only acquired sufficient rated output of 150 W + 150 W (8Ω), 300 W + 300 W (4Ω) but also achieved instantaneous maximum output of up to 1,200 W + 1,200 W (1Ω). They open the paragraph with the claim that it is linear to 1ohm. (I think they mean peaks not continuous, but it's not clear). What do I not understand? Is it a current/power issue that is creating the sibilance in the Sasha 2s, or is it something else? 
wokeuptobose's avatar
wokeuptobose OP
118 posts
 
Thanks, that makes sense. I won't be getting another one. I don't think vertical bi-amping is a possibility as the Sashas have only the one pair of binding posts down low.  I'm certain the m900u matches beautifully with some speakers, just not mine. I will give it till Saturday then if its still bright I will put the JC1+s back in and offer the Luxman for sale. Someone will be happy...NIB when I got it, 200 hours of burn in now.
The Gryphon EVO is just too much of everything for me at this point in my life, but I'd love to hear it here!
 Several HIFI friends are suggesting, ARC 150, ARC 160 S, Modwright KSE150 single or pair, VAC Signature 200 iQ single or pair, Ampzilla 2000 V2, and BAT VK255SE. My goal is to keep the attributes of the JC1+, but add greater resolution, deeper soundstage and more air, max budget it 22K. Ideas? Thoughts?
wokeuptobose's avatar
wokeuptobose OP
118 posts
 
good point, however as I never tried the Vivaldi direct into the Luxman. No reason not to give it a listen. thanks.
wokeuptobose's avatar
wokeuptobose OP
118 posts
 
Sorry about assuming the BAT was tubes!! I see it's solid state. 
wokeuptobose's avatar
wokeuptobose OP
118 posts
 
I sold myself on spending so much on the Vivaldi by thinking I could sell my ARC REF10 and put the money toward the Vivaldi. I tried and tried to like it. In fact I had two others listen to my system without revealing what I was changing.  It is slightly more revealing going direct, but its harsh. It sounds digital. The Vivaldi does have all the tools to match the output level so you always run it near wide open, but its too analytical on it's own. I then tried a passive and that improved the sound, but still to much. It was adding the LS300 with the tubes that made my system so musical and enjoyable. I rolled in Amperex USN 7308s and Mazda rectifiers from Brent Jesse and it was very nice. I realize I'm going round and round here, but I had a great combo, I just thought maybe there was more. There is, but with the m900u it's too bright. 
wokeuptobose's avatar
wokeuptobose OP
118 posts
 
gerryah930, that is VERY helpful. Thanks. I think we have similar sound goals. I heard the DAW and loved it, the Sasha 2 purchase was my practical side winning out. I still believe the 2 is a very promising speaker, maybe matching components is even more important with it than the DAW.  I've found it's very sensitive to what it's fed, hence my quest. The Naim DR 300 was similar to the GS150 in that it wasn't enough for the Sasha 2s. You are not the first person who loves the Sasha with the bigger ARC mono amps. I found the ARC REF 10 when I had it to be very "non-tube like" in its sound. How do you evaluate the 250SE and 160M sound with the Sasha 2s. I have little doubt they will be ideal with the DAW. I think the 2s need an amp with a certain profile.  I like most of the m900u sound especially the airy sound, just not this bright on female voices thing. Did you hear that or it that my ears/room/system in your opinion? It still may burn off. Jays Audio Lab is on the record saying that he liked the 160S over the 160M. Do you have an opinion? I do not always agree with Jay for what its worth. Thanks so much for sharing this relevant experience!
wokeuptobose's avatar
wokeuptobose OP
118 posts
 
Yes, for sure. I'm not at all green when it comes to my system. I want all the class A I can get.  I ran my Krell KSA turned on for 28 years straight!!!
wokeuptobose's avatar
wokeuptobose OP
118 posts
 
Wow, you just nailed it! I am smitten with parts of the Luxman, but the match with the Wilsons is not what I want. Yes, the Wilsons in my room need a warm support system. I really appreciate you taking the time to share your experience, as I am confident in what I hear, but it didn't jibe with what I read on line about the m900u "sound". Thanks for your insight!
wokeuptobose's avatar
wokeuptobose OP
118 posts
 
I find it interesting that the Pass amps have only come up once or twice here. Has Jay killed the Pass reputation as he pivoted away from being in love with them? I have never owned or heard them, but they were an aspirational brand for me. I understand they are not the end all be all for resolution and they run hot, but they are supposed to be very musical. Thoughts on Pass?
wokeuptobose's avatar
wokeuptobose OP
118 posts
 
Someone brought to my attention the Doshi 180M V3s that were shown with Sasha 2s (and other Wilsons) at multiple audio shows. a few years back. Does anyone have an informed opinion on this combo?
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