Self restraint is admirable jetter. However, bad mood or not, you pay when you decide to play. But carving Geoff isn't a particularly challenging endeavor.
Quack System Upgrades
Ok, so what's the most ridiculous "SNAKE OIL" upgrade you have come across?
Let the fun begin HAHAHA :) :)
160 responses Add your response
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jitter wrote, "Rather than using a SPL meter or the "blind mice" approach suggested by geoffkait, I have achieved better results in placing my resonators by hiring a dowser specializing in audio resonances. For you DIYers, he mentioned that he built his divining rod using instructions found on you tube." when you get a moment I have an excellent suggestion for where to put your resonators. |
geoffkait wrote, "Geez, I almost forgot the most important thing. The trick with these resonators is finding places in the room where they do good, not do bad. If you have a SPL meter handy you can map out all the pressure peaks in the room and attack the highest dB peaks first. If you don't have a SPL meter handy it's a little trial and error but the best places to start are proximity to room corners, especially upper room corners. Other places to start are 1st reflection points, the wall behind the listener and between the speakers on the front wall. Height is an issue with around 5 feet being a good starting point." Rather than using a SPL meter or the "blind mice" approach suggested by geoffkait, I have achieved better results in placing my resonators by hiring a dowser specializing in audio resonances. For you DIYers, he mentioned that he built his divining rod using instructions found on you tube. |
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dlcockrum wrote, "I built some DIY HFT resonators using ozzy’s recipe (copper fly fishing cones inside of 1/8" copper plumbing end caps). Total cost was something like $20. They definitely effect the sound in my room. Pretty powerful actually. Easy to overdo it and the mid-treble gets hard sounding IME." Geez, I almost forgot the most important thing. The trick with these resonators is finding places in the room where they do good, not do bad. There are many places where they can hurt the sound. Like the empty beer bottles in the big rooms at CES. 😬 If you have an SPL meter handy you can map out all the pressure peaks in the room and attack the highest dB peaks first. If you don’t have a SPL meter handy it’s a lot of trial and error but the best places to start are proximity to room corners, especially upper room corners. Other places to start are 1st reflection points, the wall behind the listener and between the speakers on the front wall. Height is an issue with around 5 feet being a good starting point. |
dlcockrum wrote, "I built some DIY HFT resonators using ozzy’s recipe (copper fly fishing cones inside of 1/8" copper plumbing end caps). Total cost was something like $20. They definitely effect the sound in my room. Pretty powerful actually. Easy to overdo it and the mid-treble gets hard sounding IME." My resonators and most others like Ziplex and ART and Franck Chang's have bowl diameter of 7/8" or 1" just for reference. Now, one interesting thing about these resonators is that they actually work in two ways. One is acoustic, since the diameter of the bowl is the same as some acoustic wave wavelength. The diameter also happens to be the wavelength of some radio frequency (I.e., electromagnetic wave). Which is why placing resonators in other rooms improves the sound. The other Chang resonators, Sugar Cubes have a very small hole, maybe 1/8" diameter. dlcockrum wrote, "I also heard the SR ART system in several settings. I like the effect but just too expensive to me, not to say that others haven’t gotten great results they feel to be worth the money." If you think the ARTs are expensive check out the platinum and gold Acoustic Resonators from Franck Chang. dlcockrum wrote, "Also heard good benefits from Helmholz resonators between and behind Apogees." Of course the orginal Argent Room Lens is a Helmholtz resonator. So is an empty coke bottle. I built a Helmholtz resonator to deal with a 70 Hz standing wave. The resonator was a 15' long folded horn with a nozzle on one end and sealed on the other end. dlcockrum wrote, "Then there are the Schumann resonance generators...heard good things from friends but concerned about health effects." I immediately like the whole idea of Schumann frequency generators, but never owned one. Well, I did set up a portable CD player and small speakers so I could play a Schumann frequency CD. Would you believe very small speakers can produce a 7.8 Hz frequency in the room? 😀 |
I built some DIY HFT resonators using ozzy’s recipe (copper fly fishing cones inside of 1/8" copper plumbing end caps). Total cost was something like $20. They definitely effect the sound in my room. Pretty powerful actually. Easy to overdo it and the mid-treble gets hard sounding IME. I also heard the SR ART system in several settings. I like the effect but just too expensive to me, not to say that others haven’t gotten great results they feel to be worth the money. Also heard good benefits from Helmholz resonators between and behind Apogees. Then there are the Schumann resonance generators...heard good things from friends but concerned about health effects. Dave |
Avsjerry Andy, I’d feel better if we could....*L* I want the "I don’t mind Lamp"....wait a minute, I already own some. You turn them on, and they don’t flicker at me. Unless the utility is having a hiccup, that’s OK. If I don’t like white, there’s colored bulbs.... Meanwhile, speaking of resonators... speaking of resonators, these tiny bowl resonators have been around like forever. The first was the Acoustic Resonators, from the mind of Franck Chang, which come in pure silver, or pure gold or pure platinum. (Pseudo-skeptics alert!). There are others, too, different materials, but the same idea. It’s straight physics, right out of the textbook I’m sure you’ve long forgotten. Broadband Helmholtz resonator. Heck I’ve even got one, Codename White Poppy, named after the white ceramic I use for mine. I know a good thing when I see one. geoff kait machina dramatica the mind is a terrible thing to have |
Andy, I'd feel better if we could....*L* I want the "I don't mind Lamp"....wait a minute, I already own some. You turn them on, and they don't flicker at me. Unless the utility is having a hiccup, that's OK. If I don't like white, there's colored bulbs.... Meanwhile, speaking of resonators.... https://www.audiogon.com/listings/acoustics-highend-novum-pmr-premium-mkii-room-acoustic-resonator-e... Some want to do it on purpose, and pay a premium to do so. Another "Say What?!" moment..... Buy some ART for the room, a couple of beautifully done bowls that 'float your boat' aesthetically. Something to 'take the minimalist edge off the cave'. I'd wager they'd do more or less the same thing; and if they didn't, move 'em into the living room or wherever.... They're pretty...for a nicely rendered sat dish....;) Can we blame all this on lead in the water, please? |
asvjerry *LOL* Geoff, that’s just the sort of thing that makes me vacillate between amazement and mild paranoia. Things like that have an amazing tendency to just improve on us. There’s research going on towards in ’mind control’ of digital devices that potentially could ’read your thoughts’; I suppose one has to ’think out loud’ at this time to ’get it’s attention’ and trigger the desired response. The obvious use would be for the handicapped... those who can’t otherwise use hands, limbs, or any typical means to use a device, move about, or communicate... Stephen Hawking comes to mind....one of the greatest thinkers of our era is able to share his thoughts and knowledge even now. If he was able to have further improvements on his devices, if that tech was more common to a broader user base, it borders on magic and myth... Let me put this in context. The Mind Lamp from Psyleron - for which I am the sole distributor - comes from the ICRL (International Consciousness Research Laboratory) which is the current reincarnation as it were of PEAR (Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research). The Mind lamp was developed to prove some of PEARs general conclusions or claims. I got involved with Princeton’s PEAR and ICRL because some of their findings are related to the operational mechanisms of many of my products in terms of extra sensory perception and how matter and especially "patterns of information" affect the mind, SPECIFICALLY HOW THEY AFFECT PERCEPTION OF SOUND AND VIDEO. avsjerry - one assumes you have an interest in video, yes? Some of my relevant products - the Teleportation Tweak, Morphic Message Labels, Clever Little Clock, Blue Meanies, Quantum Temple Bell. from the PEAR website: Engineering and Consciousness The Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research (PEAR) program, which flourished for nearly three decades under the aegis of Princeton University’s School of Engineering and Applied Science, has completed its experimental agenda of studying the interaction of human consciousness with sensitive physical devices, systems, and processes, and developing complementary theoretical models to enable better understanding of the role of consciousness in the establishment of physical reality. PEAR has now incorporated its present and future operations into the broader venue of the ICRL, a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit research organization, in addition to Psyleron—a company that provides Random Event Generator devices to enable the continued exploration of PEAR’s findings by the general public and research communities. As Arthur C. Clarke opined, "A sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." The interesting thing about the Mind Lamp is that its claims can be easily proven by tracking the colors that are displayed under a variety of conditions and calculating the actual percentages for the colors over time vs random probabilities which are all 1/8 or 0.125 for each of the 8 colors obviously. have a nice new year |
*LOL* Geoff, that's just the sort of thing that makes me vacillate between amazement and mild paranoia. Things like that have an amazing tendency to just improve on us. There's research going on towards in 'mind control' of digital devices that potentially could 'read your thoughts'; I suppose one has to 'think out loud' at this time to 'get it's attention' and trigger the desired response. The obvious use would be for the handicapped... those who can't otherwise use hands, limbs, or any typical means to use a device, move about, or communicate... Stephen Hawking comes to mind....one of the greatest thinkers of our era is able to share his thoughts and knowledge even now. If he was able to have further improvements on his devices, if that tech was more common to a broader user base, it borders on magic and myth... "The lame walk, the halt speak, the blind see..." Truly practical magic. *S* It's wondrous to live in the era when that begins to become real... ...and then there's the YT vid of 2 iPhones held next to each other, listening to Siri talk to 'herself'. The conversation isn't terribly brilliant, but it's funny if only on the conceptual level. ;) ...and I think back to a Blue Man concert back in Houston some 12 years ago. The 'opening act' was 2 LED 'reader boards', one each stage left and right. They began with a simple 'conversation', one responding to the other. It grew more involved....one became petulant, the other rather paranoid and argumentative. Obviously contrived and scripted, but it amused the audience and started levels of support and disdain, depending on where it went. A good distraction while the roadies 'tidied up'... What would occur if there was some current AI's chatting it up? Would we still be amused? What if 'they' could respond to the audience, 'sense' their level of involvement? Where would it go....? The Future. Live it, or live with it. Happens all the time...*G* Can't be stopped, not even paused... What if our systems knew what you needed to hear? The TV lights up to what you read earlier, or merely heard about? The restaurant has your parties' meals waiting for you, just what y'all had in mind, Waiting for y'all to take your seats, the libation shaken, not stirred....;) We may all be Borg eventually, but not in the STNG feared fashion....what if you could read your partners' mind? Your neighbors? Would it be the 4 things I kid people about now, reading minds and why I gave it up? "It's always basically the same 4 things....Money, Food, Sex, and Sleep. Not in any particular order..." ...but I'm just 'like that'... ;) Just random walking while awake, doing something else....*G* |
asvjerry geoffkait, yup, Something IS ruining the sound in the room.... ...and I’d go absolutely giddy if it was shown to be Us. *LOL* "System would sound great if it weren’t for you. Please exit the room." The only product I sell that is NOT an audio product is the Mind Lamp from Psyleron, a multicolor lamp that changes color randomly according to a pseudorandom state generator in the base of the lamp. The state is generated by quantum fluctuations in the house current. The Mind Lamp was developed by a group from Princeton University’s engineering anomaly research group (PEAR). The Mind Lamp has a palette of 8 colors to chose from. When the Mind Lamp is in an empty room the colors are displayed in a purely random sequence. What is interesting - and the reason I bring this up - is when someone is IN THE ROOM with the Mind Lamp the color selection can be influenced by the person or persons in the room. For example, if the person is intentionally thinking of the color RED, RED will be displayed by the lamp with a slightly greater probability than the random 1/8. In some cases a person can make the Mind Lamp change to the color of his choice immediately. Also of interest, when two Mind Lamps are placed in an empty room their color selection is not random, but each lamp is apparently influenced by the output of the other lamp. Dueling Mind Lamps? |
geoffkait, yup, Something IS ruining the sound in the room.... ...and I'd go absolutely giddy if it was shown to be Us. *LOL* "System would sound great if it weren't for you. Please exit the room." I could see a 'puter piping up with that little request in the not too distant future, what with active eq sensing programs already showing up in some devices. Since there's already sensors for games 'n stuff that 'watch' one's moves during play, I can see where that could be tied into a system that could sense where your are in the space and adjust eq and spatial response to follow you around. The buggers are starting to listen to us now already; what's next? Or, perhaps the better query, what are you afraid of? ;) "Hey, Cortana. I feel like a bite.." *Argh!* "NO,NO, Nooo..." Snake oiled BSOD....you, blue, and quite dead. "Well, he asked for it." |
http://www.verywell.com/history-of-snake-oil-2614974 "First, There Really Is Such a Thing as Snakeoil... ...and it has been used as a pain remedy for hundreds of years. The original snake oil came from Chinese water snakes and was used in China as a treatment for arthritis, bursitis, and other joint pains. It is believed to have been brought to North America during the Gold Rush in the mid-1800s. The oil, which was really fat that was taken from the snakes, was actually studied in the 1980s and found to be full of omega-3 fatty acids. Of course, we know omega-3 fatty acids are prescribed today to reduce inflammation (which can lead to arthritis), reduce blood pressure and more. Other studies have been reported as well. In Japan, snake oil was rendered from Erabu sea snakes, which are the same species as the Chinese water snake, and determined that the Omega-3s were present in their fat, too. In 2007, Japanese researchers reported on a study in mice that showed mice had improved abilities when ingesting snake oil rendered from those Erabu snakes over those mice who were fed only lard." |
avsjerry wrote, ""Telephone speakers as passive radiators...." OhhhK... Hmmm, then I should hold my breath to prevent my chest cavity from vibrating as well. Who knows how my mere presence is effecting what I’m hearing. Sounds like a wander into quantum physics where the act of observation effects the outcome. "Spooky action at a distance", my playing my music is effecting Yours whether or not you like it or not..." Things are actually worse than you have surmised. Much worse. I was trying to say that while idea that the tiny telephone speaker acts as a passive radiator is not true. But it’s not an old wives tale, it’s something deeper and more mysterious. Th original claim that telephones interfered with the sound was precipitated by Ivor Tiefenbrun of Linn turntable fame. Consider this - conduct an experiment to see if having a telephone in the room affects the sound, let’s say a controlled blind test. And let’s say the experiment shows that the telephone in the room hurts the sound as observed by the subject(s). Next, remove the tiny speaker from the telephone. Then repeat the experiment. The results should remain the same even without the tiny speaker in the telephone? Therefore speaker in the telephone is not responsible for the change in sound. It must be something else. But what? By the same token, a cell phone in the room spoils the sound. Or a telephone book. |
Dave, that certainly was a 'serious motivator' to be on the street, esp. in that chassis. It's always been the hp/lbs. ratio that makes the difference between the 'wannabe' and a Serious Slingshot. *G* One of my fav memories of the era was witnessing a refrig white Lotus Elan having a 'vette pull up next to it, rumblin' and grumblin'. Light went green and the Elan sucked the doors off the 'vette It caught him, but didn't happen until 3rd gear. The ego scar had already been made... The track here in AVL has become a bicycle track with a memorial to it's heritage beside it. One can only imagine what occurred 'back in the day'...and what the locals cooked up in the garages around here..... "Telephone speakers as passive radiators...." OhhhK... Hmmm, then I should hold my breath to prevent my chest cavity from vibrating as well. Who knows how my mere presence is effecting what I'm hearing. Sounds like a wander into quantum physics where the act of observation effects the outcome. "Spooky action at a distance", my playing my music is effecting Yours whether or not you like it or not.... Mmmm....maybe that's why hi-end cables work....or don't. All this EM energy we're soaked in daily is making the quantum soup de jour roil 'n boil and make Debussy sound like Deadmau5. Just shows to go ya'...;) You can sit there and think "Jerry's grip on Reality is getting pretty vague." Well, I knew that quite awhile ago and it actually helped. *L* When the theorists' are telling us that Reality (what a concept) resembles a hologram in some aspects, IMHO the mirrors in this funhouse were pretty bent before we showed up for the floor show. But my tin foil helmet is oxidising badly at this point from all the orgone energy on this forum.....*Really Big Smirk* |
honeybee2012 mbaudio has it backwards. By definition Snake Oil has to have TWO components; unbelievable performance claims and wildly expensive products, therefore, following this precept: Audioquest cables make outragous claims and are expensive. BlueJeans cables makes modest claims and is reasonably priced. The wise audiophile will purchase Blue Jeans Cable! BUT if Audioquest’s outrageous claims are true and Blue Jeans modest claims are also true then you could say the cheap and casual audiophile will purchase Blue Jeans Cables whereas the true high end oriented audiophile will find a way to purchase Audioquest Cables. Isn’t that more or less WHY they call their product Blue Jeans? And why THEY call their product Audio Quest? So, you see, Snake Oil has nothing to do with it. |
mbaudio has it backwards. By definition Snake Oil has to have TWO components; unbelievable performance claims and wildly expensive products, therefore, following this precept: Audioquest cables make outragous claims and are expensive. BlueJeans cables makes modest claims and is reasonably priced. The wise audiophile will purchase Blue Jeans Cable! |
crazyeddy OP @dlcockrum Hi Dave. You hit the nail right on the head! I have none of my guitar amplifier cabs (or combos) in the room for just this reason. They will act as passive radiators. The beginning of a new thread........ Hmmm. Perhaps. Guitars and flutes and trumpets in the room can act as Helmholtz resonators but not in a good way. They are not the correct geometry for the job and not in the right locations even if they were. It’s the same reason why empty beer bottles in exhibit rooms at CES or anywhere foul up the sound. Speakers are presumed to act as passive radiators, and not in a good way; hence the single speaker demo concept. But getting back to the can of worms for just a second, even a land line telephone or cell phone in the room are said to degrade the sound - supposedly because of the tiny speaker in them. I’m here to tell you (and I’m not hot dogging you) it’s NOT because of the tiny speaker, though. It’s something else. Something much more mysterious. It’s the same reason why a telephone book in the room degrades the sound. And why even a PICTURE OF A MUSICAL INSTRUMENT in the room degrades the sound. That’s the can of worms! Hel-loo! 😄 |
Hi Jerry, Ben used to build Dale Earnhardt Sr's Grand National motors back in the day. He rebuilt the original 302 motor for my 69 Z28 back in 2000. Forged pistons, rods, crank, 11:1 CR, 4 bolt mains, big valve heads, and solid-lift cam all from the factory. Only non-GM part I used was a secret-grind Comp Cams cam designed by Gordon Holloway for the rare factory crossram racing intake with two Holley 580cfm no-choke double pumpers. Ben balanced and blueprinted the motor. Dyno'd at 402 HP @ 6200 rpm and 367 ft/lbs @ 4800 rpm. All that from 302 cubes! Once a guy next to me at a red light rolled down his window and yelled, "Man, the sound of that motor is giving me a hard on!". lol Dave |
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dlcockrum/Dave...No offense taken, so no problem exists. *G* As a southern CA native and a 'child of the 60's', much too laid back to take umbrage. Besides, I suspected there was a sly snicker in there... ;) "A ridiculous motor"....Having grown up in and with L.A. 'kar kulture' (drag strips, highly 'massaged' vehicles, 'rat bikes'....you name it, I've seen and heard it...), I have too many clues as to what that could encompass. First thought was a nitro-burning 2 stroke bike motor....potentially a 'one run' motor...*HowwwwlBANG!* That could be expensive entertainment...;) ...but I have a rather odd take on things....*G* Yeah, AVL's a cool place to hang one's hat. Got a brewery and good pizza joint a 10 min. stroll away from this desk. I must show Restraint . Daily. *L* |
folkfreak, no, that's Precisely what I meant, but just got my authors' 'spun'...to place a pun on my goof.... Memory fails....aging 'wetware'...along with all the other stuff. If it don't hurt, it don't work, more or less. *sigh* Thanks for the correction, tho'...there's a little cartoon vid of a city taking off for those following the magic mouseklicks re Blish and the CIF series, BTB...major urban renewal technique potential there... ;) |
Hi eddy, I don't doubt that having quality acoustic instruments in your listening room is effecting the sound. Resonances create sound. Ever noticed sympathetic woofer movement of unused speakers in your listening room? Snares rattling and drum head vibrations from drums exposes to certain frequencies of sound? Deliberate use of the sympathetic resonances of quality acoustic instruments (not unused speakers lol) to the benefit (or detriment) of room acoustics is as solid in theory as using the many audiophile devices sold to do the same thing. I think that controlled experimentation in type, quantity, and placement of the instruments is the key. Best to you eddy, Dave |
@asvjerry I think you have your sci-fi references mixed up. "Spindizzy" is the anti-gravity technology from James Blish's "Cities in Flight" series https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spindizzy |
I heard about an audio tweak that is supposed to enhance the sound of any audio system. It involves a particular green weed that only grows in certain locales. Supposedly it has to be harvested at just the correct time to obtain the full audible effectiveness. Once harvested it is dried and any seeds are removed (they don't like heat) and placed in a bowl with a hole in it. It is then burned like incense and the emerging smoke is supposed to noticeably enhance the listening experience now isn't that the craziest thing you ever heard...........oh, wait! |
@dlcockrum in regards to your link to http://shunmook.com/userinfo/Tips%20for%20the%20Crazed%20Shun%20Mook%20Users.pdf Item number 6 really hit me. I have a dozen (or so) guitars in my listening room. Over the years I have struggled with the idea of removing them, but really don't have anywhere else to put them, and perhaps more importantly, I really enjoy having them in the room. I have never had them out of the room to evaluate the sonic differences. It has always nagged at me that they may be creating reflections that would possibly be detrimental. This statement from Shun Mook seems to re-enforce the idea that it would be a positive advantage to have them in the room. Now, all of these are solid body electrics. I do have an acoustic, but keep it in another room, as I feel that it being a hollow body, it would be resonating with the music being played on my stereo. I'm not trying to take this anywhere, just making a comment on the link, and how it relates to my environment. Thanks for the link Dave Cheers!! |
No umbrage taken, Jerry. Sorry to have hit a wrong note with you. It was meant to be humor but missed by a mile. Sorry again. Happy New Year! BTW- you are lucky to live in Asheville. Wonderful place. Ever visit Barnes and Reese at the old NASCAR track below Biltmore? Ben did a motor for me and it was ridiculous. Best to you Jerry, Dave |
Yup, quack = cables almost immediately for some. I've got my bias, and will not go there. There's plenty of other 'WTF' stuff being offered that makes snake oil seem like a daily dose like a multivitamin.... Cable stands...try some blocks of wood before you spring for That. C'mon...it could be some nice walnut or zebrawood or teak. Have it CNC'd into whatever shape tickles you.... Magnets...huh? WHY? Sounds like black magic physics to me... I'm waiting for 'spindizzy' something or another being offered. (See Heinlein's 'Cities in Space' novels, @ Wikipedia). Floating amps might cure Something we're not aware of....yet.... ;) Yes, I'm trying to be 'funny'. Some seem to take umbrage at my sense of humour, asking if I'm on drugs. Well, currently, No. Got some? *L* |
