jitter wrote,
"Rather than using a SPL meter or the "blind mice" approach suggested by geoffkait, I have achieved better results in placing my resonators by hiring a dowser specializing in audio resonances. For you DIYers, he mentioned that he built his divining rod using instructions found on you tube."
when you get a moment I have an excellent suggestion for where to put your resonators.
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dlcockrum wrote,
"I built some DIY HFT resonators using ozzy’s recipe (copper fly fishing cones inside of 1/8" copper plumbing end caps). Total cost was something like $20. They definitely effect the sound in my room. Pretty powerful actually. Easy to overdo it and the mid-treble gets hard sounding IME."
Geez, I almost forgot the most important thing. The trick with these resonators is finding places in the room where they do good, not do bad. There are many places where they can hurt the sound. Like the empty beer bottles in the big rooms at CES. 😬
If you have an SPL meter handy you can map out all the pressure peaks in the room and attack the highest dB peaks first. If you don’t have a SPL meter handy it’s a lot of trial and error but the best places to start are proximity to room corners, especially upper room corners. Other places to start are 1st reflection points, the wall behind the listener and between the speakers on the front wall. Height is an issue with around 5 feet being a good starting point.
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dlcockrum wrote,
"I built some DIY HFT resonators using ozzy’s recipe (copper fly fishing cones inside of 1/8" copper plumbing end caps). Total cost was something like $20. They definitely effect the sound in my room. Pretty powerful actually. Easy to overdo it and the mid-treble gets hard sounding IME."
My resonators and most others like Ziplex and ART and Franck Chang's have bowl diameter of 7/8" or 1" just for reference. Now, one interesting thing about these resonators is that they actually work in two ways. One is acoustic, since the diameter of the bowl is the same as some acoustic wave wavelength. The diameter also happens to be the wavelength of some radio frequency (I.e., electromagnetic wave). Which is why placing resonators in other rooms improves the sound. The other Chang resonators, Sugar Cubes have a very small hole, maybe 1/8" diameter.
dlcockrum wrote,
"I also heard the SR ART system in several settings. I like the effect but just too expensive to me, not to say that others haven’t gotten great results they feel to be worth the money."
If you think the ARTs are expensive check out the platinum and gold Acoustic Resonators from Franck Chang.
dlcockrum wrote,
"Also heard good benefits from Helmholz resonators between and behind Apogees."
Of course the orginal Argent Room Lens is a Helmholtz resonator. So is an empty coke bottle. I built a Helmholtz resonator to deal with a 70 Hz standing wave. The resonator was a 15' long folded horn with a nozzle on one end and sealed on the other end.
dlcockrum wrote,
"Then there are the Schumann resonance generators...heard good things from friends but concerned about health effects."
I immediately like the whole idea of Schumann frequency generators, but never owned one. Well, I did set up a portable CD player and small speakers so I could play a Schumann frequency CD. Would you believe very small speakers can produce a 7.8 Hz frequency in the room? 😀
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Avsjerry
Andy, I’d feel better if we could....*L*
I want the "I don’t mind Lamp"....wait a minute, I already own some. You turn them on, and they don’t flicker at me. Unless the utility is having a hiccup, that’s OK. If I don’t like white, there’s colored bulbs....
Meanwhile, speaking of resonators...
speaking of resonators, these tiny bowl resonators have been around like forever. The first was the Acoustic Resonators, from the mind of Franck Chang, which come in pure silver, or pure gold or pure platinum. (Pseudo-skeptics alert!). There are others, too, different materials, but the same idea. It’s straight physics, right out of the textbook I’m sure you’ve long forgotten. Broadband Helmholtz resonator. Heck I’ve even got one, Codename White Poppy, named after the white ceramic I use for mine. I know a good thing when I see one.
geoff kait
machina dramatica
the mind is a terrible thing to have
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asvjerry
*LOL* Geoff, that’s just the sort of thing that makes me vacillate between amazement and mild paranoia. Things like that have an amazing tendency to just improve on us. There’s research going on towards in ’mind control’ of digital devices that potentially could ’read your thoughts’; I suppose one has to ’think out loud’ at this time to ’get it’s attention’ and trigger the desired response. The obvious use would be for the handicapped... those who can’t otherwise use hands, limbs, or any typical means to use a device, move about, or communicate...
Stephen Hawking comes to mind....one of the greatest thinkers of our era is able to share his thoughts and knowledge even now. If he was able to have further improvements on his devices, if that tech was more common to a broader user base, it borders on magic and myth...
Let me put this in context. The Mind Lamp from Psyleron - for which I am the sole distributor - comes from the ICRL (International Consciousness Research Laboratory) which is the current reincarnation as it were of PEAR (Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research). The Mind lamp was developed to prove some of PEARs general conclusions or claims. I got involved with Princeton’s PEAR and ICRL because some of their findings are related to the operational mechanisms of many of my products in terms of extra sensory perception and how matter and especially "patterns of information" affect the mind, SPECIFICALLY HOW THEY AFFECT PERCEPTION OF SOUND AND VIDEO. avsjerry - one assumes you have an interest in video, yes? Some of my relevant products - the Teleportation Tweak, Morphic Message Labels, Clever Little Clock, Blue Meanies, Quantum Temple Bell.
from the PEAR website:
Engineering and Consciousness
The Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research (PEAR) program, which flourished for nearly three decades under the aegis of Princeton University’s School of Engineering and Applied Science, has completed its experimental agenda of studying the interaction of human consciousness with sensitive physical devices, systems, and processes, and developing complementary theoretical models to enable better understanding of the role of consciousness in the establishment of physical reality.
PEAR has now incorporated its present and future operations into the broader venue of the ICRL, a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit research organization, in addition to Psyleron—a company that provides Random Event Generator devices to enable the continued exploration of PEAR’s findings by the general public and research communities.
As Arthur C. Clarke opined, "A sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
The interesting thing about the Mind Lamp is that its claims can be easily proven by tracking the colors that are displayed under a variety of conditions and calculating the actual percentages for the colors over time vs random probabilities which are all 1/8 or 0.125 for each of the 8 colors obviously.
have a nice new year
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asvjerry
geoffkait, yup, Something IS ruining the sound in the room....
...and I’d go absolutely giddy if it was shown to be Us. *LOL*
"System would sound great if it weren’t for you. Please exit the room."
The only product I sell that is NOT an audio product is the Mind Lamp from Psyleron, a multicolor lamp that changes color randomly according to a pseudorandom state generator in the base of the lamp. The state is generated by quantum fluctuations in the house current. The Mind Lamp was developed by a group from Princeton University’s engineering anomaly research group (PEAR). The Mind Lamp has a palette of 8 colors to chose from.
When the Mind Lamp is in an empty room the colors are displayed in a purely random sequence. What is interesting - and the reason I bring this up - is when someone is IN THE ROOM with the Mind Lamp the color selection can be influenced by the person or persons in the room. For example, if the person is intentionally thinking of the color RED, RED will be displayed by the lamp with a slightly greater probability than the random 1/8. In some cases a person can make the Mind Lamp change to the color of his choice immediately. Also of interest, when two Mind Lamps are placed in an empty room their color selection is not random, but each lamp is apparently influenced by the output of the other lamp. Dueling Mind Lamps?
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ejr1953
OK, has anyone actually tried rubbing snake oil on the outside of their interconnects and speaker cables?
snake oil, like vegetable oil, is an excellent shield against RFI/EMI, Mr. Smarty Pants
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andrew9405
142 posts
01-04-2017 8:48am
Anything anything sold by Geoff Kaitt, the PT Barnum of audio gear.
Whoa! What? Hey, Andy, where you been hiding yourself? When did you get out of rehab?
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avsjerry wrote,
""Telephone speakers as passive radiators...." OhhhK... Hmmm, then I should hold my breath to prevent my chest cavity from vibrating as well. Who knows how my mere presence is effecting what I’m hearing. Sounds like a wander into quantum physics where the act of observation effects the outcome. "Spooky action at a distance", my playing my music is effecting Yours whether or not you like it or not..."
Things are actually worse than you have surmised. Much worse. I was trying to say that while idea that the tiny telephone speaker acts as a passive radiator is not true. But it’s not an old wives tale, it’s something deeper and more mysterious. Th original claim that telephones interfered with the sound was precipitated by Ivor Tiefenbrun of Linn turntable fame.
Consider this - conduct an experiment to see if having a telephone in the room affects the sound, let’s say a controlled blind test. And let’s say the experiment shows that the telephone in the room hurts the sound as observed by the subject(s). Next, remove the tiny speaker from the telephone. Then repeat the experiment. The results should remain the same even without the tiny speaker in the telephone? Therefore speaker in the telephone is not responsible for the change in sound. It must be something else. But what? By the same token, a cell phone in the room spoils the sound. Or a telephone book.
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01-02-2017 6:17pm
Hi Jerry, Ben used to build Dale Earnhardt Sr's...
Ummmmm, Ben and Jerry! Chunky Monkey!
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honeybee2012
mbaudio has it backwards. By definition Snake Oil has to have TWO components; unbelievable performance claims and wildly expensive products, therefore, following this precept:
Audioquest cables make outragous claims and are expensive.
BlueJeans cables makes modest claims and is reasonably priced.
The wise audiophile will purchase Blue Jeans Cable!
BUT if Audioquest’s outrageous claims are true and Blue Jeans modest claims are also true then you could say the cheap and casual audiophile will purchase Blue Jeans Cables whereas the true high end oriented audiophile will find a way to purchase Audioquest Cables. Isn’t that more or less WHY they call their product Blue Jeans? And why THEY call their product Audio Quest? So, you see, Snake Oil has nothing to do with it.
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crazyeddy OP
@dlcockrum Hi Dave. You hit the nail right on the head! I have none of my guitar amplifier cabs (or combos) in the room for just this reason. They will act as passive radiators.
The beginning of a new thread........ Hmmm. Perhaps.
Guitars and flutes and trumpets in the room can act as Helmholtz resonators but not in a good way. They are not the correct geometry for the job and not in the right locations even if they were. It’s the same reason why empty beer bottles in exhibit rooms at CES or anywhere foul up the sound.
Speakers are presumed to act as passive radiators, and not in a good way; hence the single speaker demo concept. But getting back to the can of worms for just a second, even a land line telephone or cell phone in the room are said to degrade the sound - supposedly because of the tiny speaker in them. I’m here to tell you (and I’m not hot dogging you) it’s NOT because of the tiny speaker, though. It’s something else. Something much more mysterious. It’s the same reason why a telephone book in the room degrades the sound. And why even a PICTURE OF A MUSICAL INSTRUMENT in the room degrades the sound. That’s the can of worms! Hel-loo! 😄
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dlcockrum 01-01-2017 12:51pm Good advice here IMO and cheap/free to try, excepting #6: http://shunmook.com/userinfo/Tips%20for%20the%20Crazed%20Shun%20Mook%20Users.pdf Nothing against Shun Mook but those suggestions are SO cliche and dated. One imagines they posted them so folks wouldn’t think them so strange. Their best products? The Original Cable Jacket and the enigmatic Mpingo disc. I met the two Shun Mook dudes back at CES ’97 when I was exhibiting with Mapleshade. Not sure if they noticed my Mpingo disc knock-off sitting on the floor. #6 is an interesting suggestion, if only becasue of the whole can of worms it opens up. |
Devilboy wrote,
"However...reason, logic and a little bit of common sense must come into play here even without listening first."
It ain't called common sense for nothin. It's becasue it's common. Look within.
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devilboy
No comments about the Shun Mook record clamp at $3,200?
’This extra heavy century old ebony root which were immersed in the swamps of Africa has a unique power that no other wood possesses"
Really?.......rreeaallyy?
Yes, really. Reaaaallly! Even a single Mpingo disc will blow your mind. Besides, if you have a $100K Continuum Caliburn or Walker turntable what’s another $3200?
If you really want to get your panties in a twist check out the $8,000 power strip.
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My Question: Has anyone tried any of the Jack Bybee products? Are they snake oil?
Never tried em but I have it on good authority they aren’t snake oil. Jack used to work in the black world, navy signals if memory serves. His major in school was quantum physics, which is interesting if only because they were actually teaching that subject 60 years ago.
have a nice new year |
bcowen
@gdhal
@astro58go, yes, I do not believe in cable burn-in based on listening.
Have you ever listened to a cable, new or old, that's spent a couple days on a cable cooker, like an Audiodharma? To each his own, and I'm not suggesting that what you hear is invalid, just that to my ears the difference between a fully conditioned cable and one that isn't is rather substantial.
Excellent point! Ditto cryogenics. Which is why almost all high end cable manufacturers got hip a long time ago and Cryo their cables. Can't compete otherwise. Duh!
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Geoffkait:"Huh? If everyone at the demo was transfixed wouldn’t that indicate placing colored paper under amps and around the demo room was uh, effective? Oh, you’re probably one of those group hypnosis or placebo effect advocates. Never mind."
to which ivanj replied,
"I am educated about some things but am not a mind reader. I have no idea why these people were attending. Perhaps it was the campaign in some of the mags previous about this magic stuff. There are many reason why people could be "transfixed" - that’s the skill of a grifter or a carnie, for one. I happened to go into the room because it was silent, a great relief from the racket elsewhere, and discovered I had "gone through the Looking Glass.""
At at least they were patient.
Then ivanj wrote,
"There are plenty in high end where a little knowledge and a big wallet can lead to turn-in-itis. Twas ever thus with expensive man-hobbies. How many shoes did Imelda Marcos have?"
I take it Imelda Marcos was a man.
then ivanj wrote,
"Or my friend, as Sheryl Crow sings, they were there "...to see what all the fuss was about."
Suggest you read some books by Nathaneal West."
I found out what all the fuss was about. That would make me a bigger skeptic than you, no? A real skeptic investigates whenever there’s a big fuss.
have a nice new year
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slaw
My former friend used the (Peter Belt) foil on top of his Audio Artistry "Mozarts" that he then placed a bag of lead shot on top.
I just tried to act normal.........
pretty easy to to see why he's your former friend. 😀
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ivanj
Worst I’ve seen follows. Some years ago: How about the audio show where these wizards, you know "fung shue" (sp) patchouli type folks, who were putting little pieces of paper, some even different colors and shapes under amps, around the demo room, and everyone was transfixed. I think this came out of the UK; if I not I apologize to my British friends. Does anyone remember that grift?
Huh? If everyone at the demo was transfixed wouldn’t that indicate placing colored paper under amps and around the demo room was uh, effective? Oh, you’re probably one of those group hypnosis or placebo effect advocates. Never mind.
Note to self: on a thread about Quack System Upgrades and Snake Oil it’s kind of bizarre that noone has mentioned PWB (Peter Belt) stuff up until now. E.g., the Red X Pen, the Quantum Clip, Cream Electret and Silver Rainbow Foil, last two on Stereophile’s recommended components list for a few years.
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jetter
"They don’t believe in cable directionality making a sonic difference. IME, this doesn’t hold water."
You may not think their wire achieves the proper status for your system, but regarding the cable directionality issue, I would counter that every cable providing electricity and/or signals of any kind in your life, including your stereo components, were installed without regard to directionality, except probably your speaker cable and interconnects (and fuses if you follow the SR protocol).
yup, that’s the problem in a nutshell. Nobody pays attention to wire directionality for almost everything. Assuming they’ve even heard of it. Also, I’m pretty sure all aftermarket fuse companies are now on board the whole fuse directionality train. How many aftermarket fuse companies are there now? Gotta be ten. Anyway, all the stock off the shelf fuses have directional protocols too. Those manufacturers just didn't get the memo yet.
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The Red X Pen is much funnier than Quantum Tunneling. Even the Mpingo disc is funnier than Quantum Tunneling.
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randy-11
Quantum Tunneling sounds like a tweak but is real...
Quantum Tunneling as concocted by SR might be real but it's not quantum tunneling.
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Morphic Message Foils are pretty funny. Maybe not laugh out loud funny.
🙄
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The Intelligent Chip used to be good for a few yucks. I wonder if there's any more juice in it. Hmmmm..... |
Ain't it funny how threads that start off about quack products and snake oil turn into cable debates in the blink of an eye? Carry on. Smoke if ya got em.
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rlawry
Funny that this subject comes up from time to time. Having an advanced engineering degree,
do tell. Which one?
many of these tweaks fail the smell test, wreak of alchemy, and cause my internal BS meter to peg and flash wildly. Many of them seem designed to separate a fool from his money.
do tell. Which ones?
That being said, I have often been shocked to find that many of them cause noticeable effects on the sound of my system. Not always in a positive direction but an irrefutable change in sound.
do tell. Which ones?
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How odd...nobody's mentioned the Teleportation Tweak.
😛
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crazyeddy OP
68 posts
Along the humorous line, does anyone know if machinadynamica is real
Or is this a "tongue and cheek" humorous web site? (perhaps administrated my Nigel Tuffnel himself)
I saw a few months back an add they had for beach sand or pebbles (can’t remember which) that were supposed to be used for something or other. Isolation perhaps?
They’re real if you want them to be
🤑
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almarg
Shadorne 12-26-2016
Good quality and well designed equipment should be highly sensitive and revealing of the source and not the wires used to connect equipment together. Audio 101 basics in design and quality.
"Good point, Shadorne. My perception has been that audiophiles often tend to overly conflate the ability of a component or system to resolve musical detail with its ability to resolve differences in hardware or tweaks. Obviously there can often be some relation between the two, but assuming everything is of reasonably good quality the correlation between the two is far from perfect. An obvious example illustrating that point is that a speaker having challenging impedance characteristics will tend to be more revealing of amplifier differences than one that is easy to drive, yet that says nothing about which speaker will provide better resolution of musical detail or better sound quality.
By the way, I’ve been meaning to say that it’s good to see you back here lately.
Best regards,
-- Al"
Of course, there will always to those who rail against cables. That’s why the cable controversy has been around full tilt boogie for what, almost 40 years. However, like a lot of controversial things in this hobby, the naysayers often simply have not gotten up out of the noise floor or for some other reason, you know, have not broken through to the other side.
Made the scene, week to week
Day to day, hour to hour
The gate is straight
Deep and wide
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side
Break on through, break on through
Break on through, break on through
Hey hey hey hey
Hey hey hey hey hey
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Yamamura Q-151 CD treatment contained shark oil. That's not snake oil.
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I'm getting a bad feeling.
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