Pure Audio Project Loudspeaker with Voxativ driver option
I have played the Loudspeaker merry go round a lot Maybe 6 times in 7 years . My last speaker was very good the Marten Logan impression 11a. And j upgraded the crossover It sounded good but dynamics is not one of their string suits. I heard these Pure Audio Project Speakers at a friend's, it was all over ML 11-A speaker gone. With these trio 15 model, You have to put these Open Baffle speakers together they take about 5 hours to put together You have roughly 5 midrange- tweeter wide band driver options,I chose the Excellent Voxativ wide band driver,with the Leonitis crossover . This crossover has only 5 parts, and the option to not use the inductor for the midrange .I chose not to use it slightly less warm ,but better detail by a few %. There is only 1 Huge capacitor a 68 mictofareds. This is because it rolls off at about 350hz To the Dual 15 inch Neodymium woofers . The stovk capacitor decent Mundorf Mcap, Not good enough for me .let me back up a moment. The crossover board is a screw terminal Munforf board all Gold plated Copper. Which is Very good .no solder,direct contact,purer sound. I put in the newer Clarity Csa- capacitor. And a 1.0 Arizona Cactus aluminum foil Blue oil capacitor ,.a fantastic match. Not content yet I added a 2.2uf Jupiter Copper foil Beeswax capacitor. A great combination with cactus . After about roughly 300 hours 95% run in. These capaciyors take a Loong time. The sound very Electrostatic like, plus a huge soundstage I am only 2ft from the front wall and 3ft from the sides. These speakers are 95db efficient 8ohms. The Bass is very fast punchy and detailed in room to roughly 28hz ,from my demo cra. The purity of the Voxativ driver is incredibly good,The almost natural driver I have ever heard . They offer their field coil drivers thst are much better still starting at $8500,or $12000 a pair . They go up to $32k for their top field coil drivers. The Voxativ drivers are all hand built in Berlin . A 24 hour run under duress is completed before they go anywhere. A very important option I choose and was Highly recommended, was the Verastarr Wiring harness Option a $700 option that is a solid 10-15% better with these foil wires,the Silver foils are a $1k option. Even st low volume you can hear the performance 60on the sol meter. These speakers play every kind of music with clarity and great inner detail. They will play loud enough for most but not all. 90db on up is Ear damage territory,these will play to 95-100 db,higher on peaks. Head banging speakers these are not . Listening to Tracy Chapman, Art Garfunckle They are in the room ,jazz playing Chet baker the trumpet just stands in space . Rock and Rolll for sure the 15 inch mid- woofers mean business. If you are in New England Ct Ma area email me to come over for a listen.
I have the trio 10 with Voxativ. I also have the trio 15 with horn. The horn is very accurate. Its also a horn. You have to be careful what you feed it. I have the silver Verastarr but its way to analytical. I found the horn integrates fantastic with the woofers once I put decent 10 awg pure copper wire to the woofers and 12 awg pure copper to the horn. I also use a Solden air core inductor. It was the same mH as the one in my trio 10 so I placed it in. I put a Mundorf evo oil supreme on the 10. I would do the same with the 15. Just have not got around to it. Different Uf so I cant use what i have. Its all breaking in still. The Clarity cap might be a little thin and clear. The Mundorf is also clear but more rich and full. That is my next move.
@mikld For one thing, my system is in my living room and my wife vetoed them based on looks alone. I thought they looked cool, but she thought they looked like a cross between a giant domino and a varnished duck.
I had them for a few weeks and thought they sounded great, very pure and open. But for my tastes and room, I would have needed to find and integrate the right sub.
The Encores do not require a sub, to put it mildly. When needed and with the right amplification, they will bring the thunder. I find that they just meet my needs in a more complete way and are better with all types of music, while I thought the Horn1s were phenomenal with acoustic music, but just 'very, very good' with rock and (non-acoustic) jazz. I have no doubt that those who love them would do a much better job of getting them dialed in than I did in my fairly brief, but enjoyable, time with them. I found that I was spending most of my time listening to the speakers, critiquing the sound. With the Encores, I'm back to listening to the music.
I have owned the PAP Horn1s and currently have the Tekton Encores. Both are truly excellent speakers. I know it's an old audio cliche, but these speakers have very different strengths. Your preference may well depend not only on your taste in music and your sonic priorities, but your room and the associated equipment you plan to run with them. The only way to really know for sure is to audition them, though I know that is easier said than done. The Horn1s were outstanding, but barring any unforeseen circumstances, the Encores will likely be my last speakers.
I'm interested in the PAP 15 Horn1 as a future purchase. I have similar taste in music to Radiohead99, lots of rock and lo-fi hip hop ambient pop metal, you name it, as well as audiophile stuff but for me I'm not going to ever listen to all classical and audiophile jazz and one album by dire straits, so I'm definitely looking for an
all-rounder
speaker that can handle miles davis, then guided by voices, then Radiohead, then MF Doom, then Brian Eno, then Led Zeppelin, etc... I'm curious if you've heard and could compare them to Devore O-96, Tekton Encore, or other "giant killers" in that price range? I know I need to start reaching out and finding more speakers to listen to, meanwhile any thoughts you have would be appreciated. Thanks.
To get a little of the effect of bigger speaker, put your 10 on about 1 foot stands or platforms. You'll see what it does to soundstage. Bass with 15" versus 10" is, imo, a completely different event. I would not be able to easily move down to 10s from 15, as it would be too much lost.
Do the 15 and tune as you have with 10, and you will be very happy. Send me a note. We'll talk PAP :)
Hey guys. I have had the Trio 10 for about 2 years. I have upgraded the Caps and Chokes. You really should try the Solden 12 AWG air core chokes. Like changing caps. I have upgraded the cables and I have floated the crossover behind the speaker on a stand. All cables are about 18" long now. I need to do something about the feet. I should also try Path resistors. Everything I did so far is a large improvement over stock. What I am wondering about is scale. I listen to other friends systems that are tremendously larger than mine. When I hear mine they are beautiful and engaging. Very clean and accurate. What they lack is size. I am wondering if anyone has had the 10 and moved to the 15. Was it a noticeable change in scale of sound. What are the sonic changes. How do they differ in tone, dynamics, purity of sound. Thanks for any input.
Sorry for the late reply. Here's what my subjective impression between Horn1 and VOX FC.
I think given the price difference, the choice is obvious - Horn1. However, sound is subjective and I can easily see that someone picking Vox FC over Horn1.
FC was little more open sounding but IMO had a brighter/upfront presentation than Horn1. You'd have to be very careful about your upstream component to make them sound smooth. They are very revealing and will expose the flaw in your recording. Horn1 is warmer, more refined and more musical. Equally detailed but never in your face.
I'd say Horn1 is easier to like (given my taste) but FC can dig deeper into your music. Given my music taste (I listen to lot of rock/pop music with lesser sound quality), Horn1 was the ideal choice. For really good recordings, FC will be better.
Horn1 has narrow dispersion and smaller soundstage width compare to Field Coil. This is expected given the horn driver nature. However, I didn't see any horn coloration AT ALL. Horn1 will play nice with your room acoustics. FC has wider dispersion/bigger soundstage width which is nice but you'd have to be careful with room interaction.
I owned the PAP Voxativ and then later upgraded to Horn1. Here are my thoughts:
- As good as PAP Voxativ is, Horn1 is BETTER in almost every parameter. - If there's one area Voxativ version has an advantage over Horn1 is the soundstage width. But that's expected given Horn1 is well, horn. - If you prefer a brighter/up front sound, you might like Voxativ better. Horn1 is warmer compare to Voxativ. - Horn1 is quieter, more refined, poised and more musical than Voxativ. - Horn1 has no downside that people associate with horn drivers. It's smooth as butter, detailed, never in your face and has the LIVE music feeling.
Despite having 4x15" woofer in PAP, It integrated with my small room better than my previous small floor stander that went down to 35hz at -3db. I used to have so many room treatments and bass traps. Not needed anymore with PAP. Open baffle is very room friendly. However, it is WIDE and may not fit with every room decor.
I was also fortunate to hear the uber expensive Voxativ Field Coil driver with the PAP and compare to Horn1. PM me if interested in hearing my impression.
PAP either Vox or Horn1 is amazing value for money.
If you don’t have the upgraded Varastarr Croosover foils then you are behind in the race.
Just installed a Varastarr double foil Statement Silver AC on my Phison Amp from a single foil. I am shell shocked and have never heard a cable change the entire landscape of the music presentation like this one AC cable.
Mike Powell has created foils that will just take you away to Glory Land.
The PAP speakers are the wave of the future and can be upgraded anytime you want. Vox field coil? No problem. That is my next move with these speakers.
I heard the PAPs Trio 3 Voxativs at the CAS/ California Audio Show last year.
I voted them the Best Bang for Buck of the show, and also my favorite piece of the show. Really impressive. Unfortunately they are too big for my listening space, so I opted for the smaller Spatial M3 triode Masters (2 twelve inch drivers) which in a way, are kind of a diminutive form of the larger PAP speakers in some key sonic qualities such as soundstage, dynamics, tonal quality, IMO.
@glory Looking forward to hearing your impressions as you get more hours on the Horn 1s. Friends are also encouraging me to give the Verastarrs a listen. : )
Hi Guys just wanted to chime in a second. The Verastarr foils offer dimensionality over stock wire. Details and dimensionality are related but not the same.. the very highest frequencies hold minute details which is where immediacy lives. In real life those frequencies trigger a limbic response.. the fight or flight thing we have from evolution. When we were in the woods hunting or gathering if a stick snapped behind us, instantly we were flung head over heels into survival mode as we whipped around to see what was there. We can still trigger this response with an audio rig and its what makes some rigs seem more "real" than others. Verastarr AudioFoils allow components to operate at full potential with the loudspeakers. There are much more distortions and loss in regular wire like stock zip cord. Very possibly the stuff you are hearing is distortion and is why the response is to not want any more. The distortions I am talking about are essentially inaudible and you really have no idea they are there until they are removed. Yet inaudible as they are, the smear or cloud or "fill up" the image with something you cant really put your finger on. Hope this helps !
The Verastarr cable upgrade is not all about quantity it is all about the naturalness and quality of delivery . I tried his interconnects now have the Silver Gold Alloy foils incredibly good .My Xmas present as well as Copper foil d peaker cables.the power cords on digital is s Solid upgrade. There is little chance you would send the Verastarr harness back once in your system give them a solid 150 hours , then put the old stock cables back in . It is like s stock v6 engine ,vs a Lz-1 Super Sport formula 1 engine. If you have quality electronics you will hear what you are missing especially at low volumes and interplay between instrumental shadings. I was do impressed as I mentioned earlier i did my whole system as s early Xmas Present to myself.
Agree with Ralph! The PAP speaker I have (previously the Voxativ and now the Horn1) - they can certainly please headbanger. I'm not one of those. But I listen to lot of rock music. I'd not have them if they couldn't rock. And they rock so well!
@audioman58 I do have the Lenoidas crossover for my Horn1. I'm thinking of getting the bi-ampable horn crossover. According to Doug's review on Dagogo, there's a chance that I may like that even more.
I'm curious to hear more about Verastarr internal wire upgrade. To be honest, I do not need more details. There's is so much more details coming out of music that I didn't know existed. What else Verastarr wire brings to the music? I'm also curious whether the Verastarr speaker wire would be a nice match with PAP speakers as well
I heard the Pure Audio at the recent RMAF, on recommendation from a customer. A very interesting speaker- and sure it can do head banging; I heard a Porcupine Tree cut during the demo.
I spoke to the designer- the speaker is flexible in its configurations- its possible to set it up as a 16 ohm load, which is beneficial to all amplifier types by reducing distortion, although solid state amps won't make as much power (and unless a lower power design to start with, this is not a big deal given the efficiency of this speaker).
The price is also very reasonable given the performance!
Hello Lefson my brother bought a psir from one if his friends in the UK From what he said the Path Audio are just a shade warmer, in some systems they may prefer your brand, nothing in Audio is Finite.
@audioman58 , can you give me the First name of your brother ? For the moment we only make direct sale so we should know him. It would be interesting to get his feeling, as it's not corresponding at all to what our customers says...
Radiohead99 , I want to ask you a question .You switchedto the horns , do you have the Leonitus crossover ? That is without question the purist available one resistor,one capacitor Xover frequency350hz on up. From your horn or Voxativ. essential if you want to get the most resolution ,more so then even the Horn purchase .The Verastarr wire harness upgrade. I have the Verastarr stock Wire is not even close I had a 30 day money back . For $700 an easy choice.
Thanks @audioman58 . I agree a lot of it is subjective. Both voxativ and horn1 has its strength/weakness and personal preference and system suitability makes a big difference.
But I'd say this - Horn1 is more refined than the Voxativ AC 1.6.
Hello Doug , have you reviewed the Field coil unit ? I would buy the $8k field coil ,as s demo or under $5k with a good 12v Linear Power supply. Radiohead99,the horn looks very nice .depending on amplifiers some said they preferred the smooth refinement of the standard Voxativ driver Or field coil. A lot of variables I guess and for sure improve the crossover capacitor and resistor . keep this jumper in the horizontal position . The inductor for the Voxativ driver is not used in this position and has a bit more detail.
My brother has used yhe ultra Lefson resisyors he likes Path aufio the best . I have not heard them and they are big. Path Audio are a little warm sounding but very detailed but take about 200 hours to fully open up .This is directly from Path Audio The ground where is optional to use depending on your system . I always Curt the ground and just tapped the end. Super quiet with great inner detail . It is odd why only Parts connexion sells them in North America . They only have a hand full of certain sizes. They were out of 10ohm Had yo order from Nick- UK hifi collective.
I've recently switched from Trio15 Voxativ to Horn1. I would consider the switch an improvement. Either the Voxativ or Horn1 is a tremendous speaker. It's amazing how much sound quality (and tweak ability) you get for the money.
@audioman58 : My experience is that having a bass trap or sound treatment behind the Trio15 took away the openness of the soundstage. I mostly prefered having the sound panels on the first reflection point.
Have you used Lefson resistors? Jeff Day posted rave reviews about them. But they are quite a bit more expensive than Path. How would you describe path resistors changed the sound in Trio15? Also, what foot do you recommend for the Trio15?
I heard them at the NY Audio Show with the Voxative AX-C and they sounded wonderful. The Fostex drivers in my speakers at home sounded broken in comparison. Given the $9K cost of the drivers, I thought the $15K asking price was quite reasonable.
Hello James I had the Spatial,-4 with modified Xover, that were top notch. As well as modded Maggi1.6,3.6with mye stands, YG Acoustic Carmels, Sonus Faber Olympia-3, and Marten Logan expression 11-A. All very good But, The Pure Audio Project Trio15Neo with Voxativ driver ,Verastarr Cable harness Upgrade option are just more natural you are there.No box to distort the signal .I would recommend the 4x2ft room panels 2-3 behind each speaker or at least heavy curtains , the $8k plus another $500 for path audio 10ohm resistor for Voxativ,please remember uou have to put these together .get a friend to help in 3 hours .I did by myself at least 5 hours. Hex head wrench,Phillips screw driver for the Xover. That is it .The feet stink, get rid of them online several good feet from the U.K from $35 to $600. And wrap Clockwise with threads Teflon tape to make threads tight and damp vibrations. And the several various capacitor blends, my brother has hundreds of caps to test I settles on the clarity,Jupiter,Arizona cactus blend very very close to top Duelund. In fact The Jupiter Copper foil Bees wax cap is very close on its own in all respects to the Duelund Cast more accurate in my opinion in the midband, not as much weight though. Add the Cactus green or bluealuminum foil Oil cap a great blend to truly Refine the Voxativ driver.totally seamless the Voxativ coasts only runnjng from 350hz on up to around 20khz. Which BTW none of us can hear this high in frequency.
They have been on my radar and I nearly bought them in August (the Voxativ AC-Pi model specifically.) Looks like a killer product for a reasonable price. I think they will eliminate some of the issues I had with Spatial M3 Turbo S with vocals. Sooner or later I’ll have to hear/get a pair. If you start trying different amps with them please provide feedback on your findings. Enjoy!
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