Preamp for Bryston 4b3 & Tannoy Cheviots

Sorry, forgot about the balanced issue.  I’d go with the preamp that sounds best and get a dedicated headphone amp if/when the time comes. 

Thanks @jimmy2615  and @yyzsantabarbara for the very useful information. If I ever get this sorted, I’ll give you both shout outs. And Soix, the LTA was brought to my attention here before, and it sounds like an excellent device, but as my DAC and amp are both internally balanced, I was disappointed the LTA wasn’t. Of course if I end up deciding I need some “tube sound”, most tube amps are not internally balanced , so it would then be something I should try and audition.

I’ve owned the Bryston BP17 and Primaluna Evo400 preamps with Bryston 2.5B3 monos.  Assuming the BP19 is similar (house sound?) to the older model, the Bryston preamps have more immediacy and punch to the sound than the Primaluna.  If I listened to rock music I’d probably want the Bryston preamp.  The Primaluna is really nice.  It’s not lacking in detail and is a bit smoother than the solid state preamp, while offering a more 3D soundstage.  As for tubes being a burden?  It’s a very reliable preamp.  Change the tubes every 3-5 years depending on how much you use it and it will be fine.  A lot probably depends on your speakers and room, in terms of which would bring more synergy overall.  They do sound very different.  I’ve also owned the Benchmark LA4 and it is the quietest and most neutral of the three.  Some might consider it boring compared to the other two.  If you like the character of your amp and speakers as they are, it could be a great fit.  

@lloyd1969 The LA4 and HPA4 sound identical. I have owned the HPA4 2x and the LA4 once. I love the lack of sound of each one.

I did not need to get the HPA4 since I had the LA4, but I was able to do a cashless trade for my AHB2 amp.  The reason to get the HPA4 is as a supplementary headphone amp for what maybe the world's best headphone.

RAAL 1995 headphones, Magna and Immanis | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org

I have decided to get the RAAL 1995 Immanis and I think the HPA4 will be a nice match for the slightly warm Immanis. The Immanis is incredible. I heard it in Ventura, CA at the USA partner, RAAL Requisite. Danny McKinney is the guy in Ventura that can demo the phones. Stereophile and TAS are both going to have reviews of the Immanis.

I mention Danny because when I went to demo the 2 phones, I took my Holo Audio Serene preamp. It measures even better than the HPA4/LA4 and it a touch warmer. Danny had a passive preamp that he had put together for a speaker that he was designing. I compared my Serene to his passive and the passive was a lot better, in the sense of hearing more into the music. 

I am thinking that the passive maybe even better than the HPA4. I told him that if he ever builds a passive preamp with multiple source inputs (XLR, RCA) then I would want to get one. 

I actually have 3 preamps and 2 systems,

• Benchmark HPA4 with CODA #16
• Holo Audio Serene with Magenpan LRS+
• Schitt Mjolnir V3 with CODA #16

The Mjolnir v3 costs $1300 and is a pure Class A preamp. It is a headphone amp and a preamp. It is similar to the CODA 07x preamp. The Mjolnir does not have a remote control.

The CODA 07x preamp is another unit that may interest you since it has a tube -ish sound. I have the CODA #16 amp but liked the HPA4 and Serene over the 07x, though a lot of other people may like the 07x. I have seen the 07x on USAM for $3.2k+. I would take that over tubes since it is much easier to take care off.

If headphones are likely part of your future that should put the LTA MicroZOTL high on your list as it’s an outstanding headphone amplifier in addition to preamp.  Also, sonically it walks a deft line offering something for people who like aspects of both tubes and solid state, and the tubes have a loooong life and are cheap to replace so very low maintenance as tube equipment goes.  This could well be a best of all worlds solution for you all things considered.  I believe they offer a 14-day trial that you might really consider taking advantage of.

Does anyone know an audio dealer in Southern California where one can listen to a demo system set up to switch between a tube preamp and a solid state preamp comparable quality? The dealer I like where I bought my speakers (that has an advantage in that they can set up a demo system with the same speakers that I own) is apparently to demonstrate their tube preamps but not comparable solid-state preamps (for reasons that I’m not sure I understand). Obviously, a system comparable to mine  with a $4 to $5000 preamp will sound better than a system comparable to mine where I’m running a $2000 Parasound, so I won’t be able to tell if the difference is due to the tubes I  the pre or just because it is a good pre at a much higher price point. 

Hello @yyzsantabarbara I was wondering how liked the Benchmark HPA4 compared to the line-stage-only LA4. In theory they should sound the same, but I note the line-stage-only Bryston BP 19 sounds slightly different than the BP 20, the full featured preamp with DAC, etc.  If I don’t go with a tube preamp, it seems like the HP4 might be a good solution for me. Although I hardly ever use headphones at the moment, once my wife and I both retire, and we’re at home a lot more together, headphones may be essential for listening to music as much as I will probably want to.

Keep it simple and sweet. Look into purchasing a Conrad Johnson or Audi Research tube pre amp . Trust me you will be happy. 

The Motherload reviews great, but probably loses me based on it having 2 chassis that sit side by side rather than stack. My wife says I already have enough boxes on top of the cabinet that supports her TV, and if it won't go inside the cabinet where the current pre is, it's a non-starter. :(

However, when I just realized on taking a 2nd look that the Benchmark LA4 seems a really good value, assuming I like it, at $3050. I see why YYZSantaBarbara is moving to the BM HPA4, as for just $550 more you get a great headphone amp included in the same line stage pre.  I don't use headphones at all currently, but looking towards (semi-) retirement in a few years, I can see myself using one late at night when other folks are sleeping. Much cheaper than the Bryston BP-19 that seems to have comparable specifications.

IF you are thinking tube, be aware of the impedance mismatch. Should make you look to a Supratek.  (I own a 4b3 but not a Supratek)

LTA microZOTL is an excellent preamp. Tubes last up to 10,000 hours, and are not expensive to replace. They have a 14 day return policy. Trust me, it won’t take 14 days to see how good it is. 

@soix I don’t want to derail the OP’s thread, I was just hoping to clarify the balanced nature of the ML XL, but in short the XL has more refinement and detail while still retaining the natural flow and harmonics of the ML II. Again the ML II will have these refinements as well. Best, Aric

@aricaudio  Wow.  Getting fully-balanced architecture and several upgraded parts for only $1100 more for the XL seems like quite a bargain.  What specific performance differences do you hear in going from the Mk.II to the XL?

@soix That's no problem! I came out with the XL version for all of the requests for a fully balanced architecture, and added some other key upgrades to it as well- Takman carbon film signal path resistors, Jupiter coupling caps and Clarity Cap SA film caps for the final PS decoupling caps. I will also be adding these upgrades to the ML II version to keep them on a level playing field aside from the balanced vs SE connections. Best regards, Aric

Thanks for the mention, and I just wanted to clarify The Motherlode XL is fully balanced differential I/Os.

@aricaudio Sorry, my bad and thanks for the correction.  Got the XL mixed up with the Mk. ll from Terry’s review.  I wasn’t aware there was a fully-balanced version so good to know!

@soix Thanks for the mention, and I just wanted to clarify The Motherlode XL is fully balanced differential I/Os.

I wrote to Bryston and they emailed me PDFs of this review of the Bryston BP-19 that was published last month  in “Trends Hofi Magazine” a mag from Quebec that I also see is linked to the Bryston Facebook page 

Obviously I should be able to figure this out on my own, but if any of you are already aware as to whether any of the suggested preamps are fully balanced that would be helpful info.

Of the ones I recommended the Atmasphere, Backert, ARC, and VAC preamps are fully balanced while the LTA and Aric are not.

The LA4 is fully balanced and supports the AES48 XLR standard. You do not need to go to town with the XLR between the preamp and amp. I do use a consumer hi-end XLR from my sources to the LA4.

That LTA M does sound interesting to me. I use 2 preamps hooked up to my CODA #16 amp. There is a switch in front that allows me to toggle between RCA and XLR input on the amp. I have all my sources hooked up to both preamps.

I occasionally use my Schitt Mjolnir v3 preamp connected by RCA, instead of the LA4 connected by XLR. I do this occasionally for the sake of variety. The LTA M seems like a better preamp than the Class A Mjolnir v3 that I currently use. The Schitt preamp definitely is not as good as the LA4, but it is a fun listen.

BTW - Benchmark has a 30-day home trial. My LA4 will go up for sale next Friday.

I would be patient and wait until see what the Bp-19 reviews say.  Espiecally if you already have a Bryston Amp.  Could be a match made where spirits in the sky hang out. 

Loving my Cary Audio SLP 05 with a smooth high power solid state amp.  It adds dynamics, color, class a smothness and a very large sound stage.  

perfect with the lower gain setting on the bryston.  

Thanks yyzsantabarbara for the detailed responses/suggestions. The LA4 does sound very good, and Cbrez I was up late reading about the LTA pre with great interest. And Soix I have added your suggestions to my research list and more importantly your reasoning from my primary goals in SQ improvement that tubes are likely to be the way to go. I had already been thinking about the balanced / straight issue, as I noted the LTA M has straight outputs only. Obviously I should be able to figure this out on my own, but if any of you are already aware as to whether any of the suggested preamps are fully balanced that would be helpful info.

I see a lot of music live, and having real instruments sound as real as possible and breadth and three dimensionality of soundstage are the goals I would like to maximize.

Given your stated objectives I’d skew toward a tube preamp.  The aforementioned LTA pre is an excellent recommendation, and I’d add the Aric Motherload XL, Atmasphere MP3 Mk3.3, and if you can stretch a bit or buy used the Backert Rhumba Extreme 1.3 is very worth considering.  Of course ARC and VAC should be on the radar as well.  One consideration may be if you want balanced connections.  I think your DAC is fully balanced and think your Bryston is too but not 100% sure on that.  Best of luck.

Take a look at the Linear Tube Audio Microzotl line stage. Not your typical tube preamp. Tube life is very good and it is very dynamic. Not the lush sound of older tube preamps like vintage CJ, but good bass and a very natural sound in the right system. Fits right in with your budget as well.

I do not think I have used the Benchmark LA4 with the older ST and SST series. I used to own the ST and SST amps. Those amps were hot on top. The 4B3 does not seem that way.

If the 4B3 is similar to the CODA #8, #16, Sanders Magtech, or the KRELL Duo175XD then I would use the LA4 as my first choice. I used it with all 4 amps, and it was the best preamp I had on it. I tried about 7 different preamps from $800 to $8000. I owned the old Bryston BP-25 and that was not good in comparison to the LA4.

I will be selling my LA4 next week. I traded my Benchmark AHB2 amp today for the Benchmark HPA4 preamp. It is identical to the LA4, but it has an additional headphone amp.

If you want more warmth, I am fan of the new Schitt Mjolnir v3 (own it). A class A preamp, but not as good to me as the LA4. Though no remote.

Another preamp that is great (and I own) is the Holo Audio Serene. It is almost identical to the LA4, just a bit warmer.

I think all the preamps I listed would be good with the 4B3. Infact, I was thinking of getting the 4B3 from my Magnepan LRS+ and use with the Serene or LA4. I decided to use the CODA #16 instead.

BTW - do not get fooled by the lower prices of the preamps I am suggesting. They are really good, if you do not want the preamp to add too much to the sound, except the Mjolnir v3 which adds a lot.