To be clear, just because I happen to share Mick's personal preference for the Auricaps now that I have compared them to the VCaps doesn't mean (nor should it be inferred to mean) that those who prefer the VCaps are off their rocker -:)
Nor would Mick make them available if people didn't like 'em. Just as you pointed out, tube rolling (and cap rolling) are simply after-the-fact voicing options for the end user and Mick's hard-wiring scheme makes experimenting with cap swaps a lot easier than circuit board mounting -;) |
06-26-07: Amandarae
Hello Sorlowski,
My Chenin is #238 and it has an Auricap (1uF) at the output for both channels of course. Are you sure you are looking at the output caps? Maybe Mick change it who knows but just want to be sure you are looking at the right caps.
As for the teflon caps, after installing mine (Sonicap Teflon) for two weeks, I conclude that in my system although it produces additional "details" or maybe I am just expecting it to happen, I have to put the Auricap back. I do not know but for me, I noticed something regarding the "weight" of the presentation as in different "ambience" on the recording I am very familiar with. Hard to describe! Maybe it is not for me. Maybe my set up is not on par with "Teflon caps" capability.
BTW, the caps have atleast 400 hours on it since I used it on my SET amp before.
regards,
Abe Same here! As I posted way back(see above), the Teflon cap is not my cup of tea. I really want to like it, but when listening to live recordings on vinyl, the ambient noise, venue noise if you will, sounds different to me. Not good! Life is too short not to be honest to yourself.... regards, Abe |
I just hooked up a new Cabernet Dual, all's well except I can't get the remote to work. I emailed Mick but in the meantime does anyone have any ideas? Thanks! |
you could try reprogramming it. according to the manual:
"hold down the code key and press power, the red light will flash, enter 1 1 4 1 4 and the red light will go out if correctly programmed."
be sure you're aiming the remote toward the center of the cabernet as that's where the IR "eye" is. i've heard that sometimes the volume knob sticks due to the tight tolerances mick uses. good luck. |
Hi all,
Well, just chiming in here. What about this Audio Horizons preamp from Joe Chow. That's supposed to be good stuff too. |
Blindman,
Here's a separate thread regarding the Joe Chow preamp:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1142509250&read&keyw&zzaudio=horizons
|
The Dodd audio pure DC power preamp is so detailed and with a black background and no noise from AC to disrupt the signal, these 3 gel cell batterys you get over 16hrs from a charge and 3 hours to recharge and they last for at least 3-4 years .A great preamp and completely made in the U.S and Vacuum tubed with 2-6922, a beautfull curly maple.p.s all batterys now run in series ,the Bass is superb and with over 100amps available it is better than any pre at up to $7k I compared this to at $3500 a steal! |
why do other people try to latch onto to this thread to pimp other brands preamps? i'm sure the h-cat, audio horizon, and dodd preamps are excellent in their own right, but this is a supratek discussion thread.
if you've compared the h-cat, audio horizon, or dodd preamp to a supratek preamp and want to share your experience, then by all means post away. if you're just trying to shill for the other companies, there are other threads already going for this.
i suppose the thread title is what confuses people. can we change it to "Supratek - Preamp Deal of the Century"? maybe i'm just over-reacting to this. am i the only one? |
No you are not over reacting and you are not the only one. Posts like the one you are refering to are part of the reason I don't post on here very often at all, its just not worth it. And it bseems to be getting nothing but worse. |
A Preamp on batteries. Sounds interesting. Can't help to think battery powered anything will eventually need replacing or will degrade over time as it charges and expends...(hell, I am on my 6th rechargable battery for my phone and it drives me nuts) What do you do 5 years from now when you need a new battery, spend another $3500? What if Dodd ain't around. Thanks but I'll stick to my Supratek...I have compared it to numerous preamps costing in excess of 7K and it still holds my attention. And there ain't no battery! |
I've had my Chenin for about two years and have enjoyed it. Unfortunately, about two weeks ago, I turned on the preamp and my solid state power amp at exactly the same time. The tube in the power supply seemed to get really bright like it was about to explode. I then turned off the unit. When I turned it back on all the tubes lit up, but no sound came out of my system. Mick told me to replace the tube, but that has not helped. Anyone else have any ideas as to how to fix? |
Arkio, on one hand the dc power from batteries is a good thing for clean power. But here is something to seriously cosider, with a 16 hour charge life on the battery pack that means on a day like yesterday when I had my system on from 7am thru 2 am which is 19 hours I would have had to get up and change the battery pack at 11 pm or shut the system down and recharge the battery. As you said, I think I'll just stick to my Chennin plugged into the ac for as many continuous hours as I would like. |
If battery power was the be-all and end-all solution for audio, then all your portable CD players, ghetto blasters and car CD decks running on 12v batteries etc would be reference sources?? Which they are definately NOT ...
I've owned a tricked up battery powered esoteric Pioneer CD player and the N.E.W DC-33 battery powered Class A amplifier. Nice sounding equipment, but a pain in the a*s charging and replacing batteries when the time comes.
Regards,
Steve. |
why do other people try to latch onto to this thread to pimp other brands preamps? i'm sure the h-cat, audio horizon, and dodd preamps are excellent in their own right, but this is a supratek discussion thread. Exactly! Don't waste your time, jealousy is very difficult to understand. Honestly, I heard the "battery" powered preamp mentioned by the poster above. This is not new as it has been on the threads at Audio Circle for a long time now. In fact, I recall, it was launched there. All I can say is that to each his own. I have a Chenin for 4 years now! I am happy, and that's what really matters to me. regards, Abe |
Don't feed the monster. It only encourages off-topic posts when we respond to the irrelevant intrusions. |
Unfortunately any long running owners thread develops a "circle the wagons" attitude toward unasked postings. Personally,I'd just as soon hear direct comparisons made if there's a complete rundown of equipment used/room set up to estimate system/hearing differences and to figure where differences(if any) could originate.
There are ways to hopefully keep the flames down. Perhaps if owners of differing high achievers would start out by asking first if any of the regular posters have made any comparisons,or heard first hand the differing piece in question,maybe the window for "rightous" anger would be a little less wide open.
I would hope we all would still be open to new things mentally. Doesn't have to mean that you'd even be interested in changing anything. Just be open to hear about new products,if posted respectfully.
Would any of us here have been so interested in Supratek if there weren't many comparisons to other pres made,especially in the early days of this thread? |
Zachzdb,
I think everyone here would welcome comparisons of the Supratek to any other preamp if the poster has actually compared the two, but to just come in and try to hijack the thread by rambling about another product is a different kettle of fish. |
Timchen
"what I am saying is why should I trust these users?"
I don't think anyone here wants you to trust them. Most could care less. This thread IMO has evolved into more of an information forum about Suprateks by people who have taken the 'risk' and have questions about the units. That said there are plenty of 'independent' reviews on the web to illustrate how good these preamps are. Also the fact that this thread is over 3000 should speak for itself. Finally the few that sell here on audiogon, sell for about 80% of their retail so the risk factor is relatively low if you end up finding it just doesn't float your boat at the end of the day.
|
Sorry - scratch my last post guys... I was browsing thru this monsterous thread and came upon Timchen's post and responded to it thinking it was recent. Its like from 2002 ...yikes . This thread has been around for so long...unreal. I gotta pay better attention.
good listening. |
Hi guys,
I previously owned a Sauvignon which I loved but sold when I got into vinyl. My listening is now 95% vinyl and I want a new preamp with a world-class phono stage.
I am not sure if I would want to spring for the Cortese or not. The raves over the Chenin are rather impressive. Who has heard both relatively recently and could comment? How much difference is there?
I have heard that the Cortese circuit (linestage part at least) is far more complex. IME, simple circuits with very high quality parts usually do all things well, if noise is kept down.
Noise is paramount as I use 100 dB speakers. Any comments on noise between the two? How about liquidity of midrange - that's probably goal #1.
I would like to read the whole thread but that will take awhile... |
Hello Paul,
I will never own a Cortese. Not because of monetary issues but I just do not need one.
I use a Chenin FF preamp with Mullard 8080 and Amperex BB's on the phono section. I have an Altec 604-8G's in OB and 612C Altec cabs, a Fostex MLTL, and a Bozak Rhapsody. They are 100dB, 95 dB, and 92 dB respectively. I am very happy about the synergy and the preamp does not hum even at maximum gain settings (per channel) of the phono and minimum attenuation (full) of the linestage volume.
Before the Chenin, I was using a Wright Sound WPP100C. The Chenin phono is much much better than the Wright! No comparison! Besides, you need very quiet tubes on the WPP100C or you will hear "tube rush" or hiss as you increase the individual gain pots on it. Not a problem with the Chenin. Very quiet!
After that, I went a little "pie tasting" if you will. I had the Pass Xono, Hagerman Trumpet, and a heavily modified Hagerman Cornet II. I do not care for the Pass, The Trumpet was very nice, and i can get very close to the sound of the Trumpet with the Cornet II. So I sold the first two and kept the Cornet.
Like you, I played vinyl almost exclusively. Hell, check my equiptment page and you will see that I am telling the truth. Besides, now that I am on the SET/High Eff camp, hum issue is a no no to take advantage of the speakers high efficiency in order not to mask the small nuances that contributes to the listening experience.
My experiences in the context of my own system only of course!
regards,
Abe |
Hello Abe, just checked out your system ...nice collection especially that Teres turntable.
I noticed you have the Linkwitz Orion open baffle loudspeaker, what's your honest opinion of it? I've been interested to try it out, is it as transparent as the Maggies or is it just cones & domes doing their usual thing? Also, does the OB bass go low enough for you (I notice you have separate subwoofers)...
Thanks,
Steve. |
This is interesting ...about capacitor rolling.
http://6moons.com/audioreviews/caprolling/caps.html
Regards,
Steve. |
I noticed you have the Linkwitz Orion open baffle loudspeaker, what's your honest opinion of it? I've been interested to try it out, is it as transparent as the Maggies or is it just cones & domes doing their usual thing? Also, does the OB bass go low enough for you (I notice you have separate subwoofers)... Hello Steve, The Orions are the best speakers I ever heard! No other speakers that I heard off exhibits the same dynamics and bass impact what the Orions (4 x Peerless XLS subwoofers in dipole config)can do. Granted that I only heard a handful of the speakers through my audition but I can assure you, it will kill the Wilsons or VR's with a price tag of $8-10K in terms of dynamics no matter what amps you use for them. Hard to believe eh! I was an electrostatic die hard. Also was an maggie head. Even if you love SS gears, the maggies and the Martin Logans I own are easily bested by the Orions to my ears. I am now exploring the high efficiency/SET domain and to be honest, I really like it. No, I do not have subwoofers! Only for HT where I still have a Velodyne but there is no pics of it in my system page. I now have an Altec 604-8G's in OB. Bass cannot be compared to the Orions of course nor the "dynamic" impact where the Orions really excell. But knowing my limitations with power(SET)and damping factor which needs to be considered also, and the fact that it is single driver open baffle implementation, I cannot complain. I am happy of what I got and I know it can only get better. Besides, the Altec 604's excells on its ability to provide pin point imaging and not to provide very flat response across the freq spectrum. regards, |
Stevem1960,
Did you just have deja vu?
Wasn't this cap rolling link just discussed, with you participating, just a little higher in this thread?
I don't get it. |
Hi Fiddler, yes caps were discussed earlier but now expanded upon by Srajan as a fullblown 6moons article which I haven't seen before.
Abe: thanks for the comments on the Orion, sounds like worth following up on. I too am into SETs and point source drivers at the moment, currently Lowther DX3 in OB or Martin King's MLTL box.
Steve. |
Stevem,
I guess this is why I am confused.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1016931418&openflup&3285&4#3285
The link that you provided is the exact same link we all discussed last time. You actually posted in the cap rolling discussion that several of us were engaged as a result of the article.
Memory is the second thing to go :) |
Oops! sorry Fiddler not loss of memory, just didn't see Clipsal's reference to Srajan's article the first time (you'll notice that my first post on the matter is 13 posts down from Clipsal's so I musn't have read them all).
BTW Fiddler, what's the first thing to go if memory is second ??
Cheers,
Steve. |
Stevem,
If you can't remember, it's already to late! Ask your wife, she'll remind you :) |
Hi Steve
For what its worth I am also using the Linkwitz Orions with the Chenin pre. I couldn't agree more with Abe's description of the Oorions. I also was a huge fan of electrostatics and went from Martin Logan Ascent i speakers to the Orions and the Orions sound better by far than the Logans. I also use no sub. |
Fiddler, I thought it was that ;-) had to ask anyway.
Thanks DWR, I will have to follow up on the Orions one day.
Steve. |
For the Cabernet Dual has anyone tried bi-amping using this preamp on a two-way pair of speakers that can be bi-wired.
I've just hooked up a pair of 2A3 monoblocks to the 101D section which feeds the ribbon tweeter on the speakers and a pair of 13E1 monoblocks to the 6H30 section of the pre-amp which feeds the woofer.
The sound is fantastic, but am thinking some of that mid-range magic is compromised. Any thoughts ? |
I bought a set of XLR-RCA adapters for the preamp output of my Cabernet to see if it would reduce a hum issue I was having. The adapters did eliminate the hum, BUT it ABSOLUTELY killed the dynamics, bass, and overall volume of the music.
The manual does not state what the xlr pinout is, but I did email Mick and he stated that pin 2 is hot, so I believe the Cabernet follows the USA XLR standard (Pin 1 = Shield ground, Pin 2 = Positive balanced signal, Pin 3 = Negative balanced signal). The XLR-RCA adapter was made to the USA XLR standard according to the maker of the adapter.
I'm connecting the Cabernet to a Yamamoto A-08S. As stated before, I wanted to try the adapter to see if it would effect the hum issue which I have. I had previously built my own RCA to XLR cable (Pin 2 to RCA Center, Pin 1 & 3 to RCA Ground) and I had the same problem with my homemade cable that I had with the adapters - death of dynamics, bass depth, and overall volume. I thought I just botched my cable job, but apparently the problem is different.
I'm guessing the problem is with the Cabernet. Before I received the Cabernet, I had the Yamamoto connected to a Denon receiver and did not have the hum problem that I'm having now. I haven't changed the RCAs, power cords, or speaker cables. The only change was the Supratek.
As far as addressing the hum before the adapters, I have tried floating the ground on just the preamp, just the amp, on both, and on my speakers (Von Schweikert dB99-SE). However, all the ground floating did nothing.
I reconnected the RCA to RCA this morning, but left the adapters still connected to the Cabernet XLR out. I noticed the same reduction in hum as well the constriction of dynamics, bass, and volume. Once I unplugged the adapters, the hum came back, but so did the "life" in the music. If anybody has any suggestions to reduce the hum, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks much. |
Could be a noisy tube......
If you think it is ground loop problem (you have to be sure) fine a dealer and ask for loan of a Ground Zero made by Granite Audio. (if you are in tri-state area - let me know). I had a similar headache just a while ago. Turn out to be a "noisy" tube in one of my amps.
Cheers |
Marius:
Which tube out of the bunch would be the likliest culprit? The Cab Dual uses two 101D, two 6SN7, two 6H30, two 5881, and a single 5AR4. I'd be fairly pricey to completely retube the Cabernet as the 101D's aren't cheap. I figure I can start with the 6SN7 first to see. Any other opinions? |
Hello Kgturner,
I doubt it if the hum is cause by a tube. Do you have a scope? I ask because you can measure what freq your hum is. 60 hertz and it could be mechanical (tube or transformers vibrating) or filament supply voltage, 120 Hz. and it surely is coming from the rectified voltage of the B+. So which one is it and how much is the amplitude?
One thing to try is to have a shielded cable(shield connected at the preamp side only)from amp to preamp. Try it reverse also and see what happens.
regards,
Abe |
Abe:
I don't have a scope nor any access to one that I'm aware of. The hum sounds like a typical ground loop hum to me (60 Hz). I can try the shielded cable route, but I'd likely have to build it. What you're saying is connect the ground and shield at one end of the RCA and just the ground at the other end? |
kgturner,
I also had a hum issue from one channel with my Cab Dual, but effectively reduce it by turning down the gain on the amps. A futher reduction in hum was obtained by re-routing the two umbilical cords on the Dual. |
Abe:
I don't have a scope nor any access to one that I'm aware of. The hum sounds like a typical ground loop hum to me (60 Hz). I can try the shielded cable route, but I'd likely have to build it. What you're saying is connect the ground and shield at one end of the RCA and just the ground at the other end?
Yes, that is correct but lets change the terminologies so as not to get confuse. Lets call what you call "ground" as negative phase. So,on one end, positive phase to + of RCA pin, negative phase connected to the shield together then to the negative of the RCA pin, on the other end negative phase and positive phase connections only on the RCA's. regards, Abe. |
On my amp, it was the input tube NOS6922 Amperex.
*are you positive it is the pre-amp....not the amp.
*Some amps do not like to be plugged into AC conditioners or voltage stabilizers. It the worst case scenario, it could be a bad or leaky cap..... |
I have the same hum issue with my supratek preamp. when i connect the amp to speaker only (no pre amp involveed) i have no hum. connecting pre to amp and to speakers, hum is audible. I then changed a pair of CHEAP monster ic from pre to amp. th e hum decreased significanly. i disclosed the monster ic i learned that the ic conductors are bigger than the other one. Also the monster is not shielded. It is simply twisted. I then ordered a good shielded ic but this pair does not help at all with the hum. Any recommendation? Thanks alot. |
Hello, I have the same hum issue with my supratek preamp. when i connect the amp to speaker only (no pre amp involveed) i have no hum. connecting pre to amp and to speakers, hum is audible. I then changed a pair of CHEAP monster ic from pre to amp. th e hum decreased significanly. i disclosed the monster ic i learned that the ic conductors are bigger than the other one. Also the monster is not shielded. It is simply twisted. I then ordered a good shielded ic but this pair does not help at all with the hum. Any recommendation? Thanks alot. As I mentioned above, it is good to know what freq of "hum" you are having. Have you tried a different rectifier? This will test if the hum is 120 Hz or not if by using a different rectifier, the hum decreases. If this is the case, remember that our preamp is transformer coupled at the output, then ripple is high on the supply voltage which means that the filter caps after the rectifier could be bad or not doing its function well. Is the hum present on phono only? Or linestage as well? Phono only, then you can be sure that the grounding scheme of the arm is the problem. Linestage too and there could be several factors. If the ground plane of the preamp(chassis) have a different reference than the ground plane of the amp you are using, hum will be present. Too many ground path and you will have to deal with it also which is commonly known as "ground loop". Have you tried connecting the amp and preamp to the same outlet ground? Have you tried connecting the chassis of the amp to the chassis of the preamp(phono ground lug) using a wire with alligator clip on both ends and hear a difference in hum loudness? Have you tried taking off all the input components to the preamp and then rotating the orientation of the preamp or moving it further away from the amp and hear any difference in hum level? On this case, we are isolating the preamp and testing for any interference. When the preamp gain is set to high, any interference or signal coupling from transformers or power cords close to the preamp will be amplified greatly. My suggestions only of course. FWIW, my Chenin is dead quiet on the phono section and linestage section with regards to hum. All I can hear is tube hiss when the tubes, especially phono, are noisy at maximum (fully clockwise) position of the volume attenuator(min attenuation). I can only hear a hum on mine when I connected an SET amp that I know hums with my 100 dB/1W/meter speakers (Altec). I have use my preamp with Magnepans (not likely to have a hum issue), MLogans, and other speakers as I mentioned above on my other post and have no hum problems (thank God!). Maybe I got lucky. BTW, I use a shielded cable from preamp to amp with the shield connected at the preamp side only. regards, Abe |
abe:
i'm gonna try the cable route first as my yamamoto and cabernet are only connected with cheapie red/white throw away cables. i noticed that when the yamamoto is turned on, the hum starts and the cab only amplifies it due to it's super high gain. if i unplug the rca cables from the yamamoto, the hum is greatly reduced. |
Hello Kgturner, abe:
i'm gonna try the cable route first as my yamamoto and cabernet are only connected with cheapie red/white throw away cables. i noticed that when the yamamoto is turned on, the hum starts and the cab only amplifies it due to it's super high gain. if i unplug the rca cables from the yamamoto, the hum is greatly reduced. Ahh, then it is likely that your problem is only the cables. Goodluck! This message is tube driven |
Have you tried using a power cord that does not have a ground? I have a friend that has a Supratek preamp. He was about to send his to Kevin Kovi because he had tried everything to get rid of the hum he had. He happened to plug a power cord in that did not have a ground on it. The hum went away and the preamp was dead quiet! |
It might be the case with some amps but I would try to have preamp grounded and try to find the real problem then playing "Russian Roulette". I know it is flustrating......been there not to long ago myself.
I wish you luck with this annoying problem. |
i have tried mine with cheater plus but no lucks. |
Does anyone have an email address or contact number for Kevin Covi?
Thanks. |
I have a Supratek Sauvignon. I rolled the original tubes to a pair of Tung Sol GTB's circa mid 1950's and the improvement was substantial. The music came alive right across the spectrum. I recently got a hold of a pair of NOS NIB Mullard ECC33's (manuf 1963). These tubes aren't easy to come by and they don't come cheap. To be honest I'm a little disappointed in the sound. I'm aware that the ECC33 isn't an exact substitute for a 6sn7, but everything I've read about the Mullards suggests that they should be fantastic. The sound is a little "slower" and although detailed, it lacks the punch of the Tung Sols. Has anyone else had a similar experience? |
Zachzdb, Here is his address Kevin Covi [mailto:kcovi@attglobal.net] |
