Preamp Deal of the Century

i live in west mobile, around schillinger and airport.

cool good to see and know that there is another 2 channel guy in town. I work on Dauphin st. for Xante corp...are you listening to vinyl at all or just cd's

just cd. no vinyl as i can't justify the added expense of the equipment as well as having to purchase all the "necessity" albums. couple this with the fact that most of the music/bands i listen to rarely, if ever, release on vinyl.

yep hear you on that but I couldn't resist and got back into vinyl about 3 years ago. It's been a challenge with the wife as I have gone through a bunch of equipment and now the Suprtek. Wanted to get the chenin but couldn't swing the change in order and also the cost at this time.

Dum I know - but- can anyone tell me the dimensions of the 25Kg box Mick ships in.
Bought another used Supratek pre and can't get an answer re dimensions of the box which is holding up shipping.
Tried Fedex website but no joy, maybe since I'm in the UK.
thanks Si

simon:

i think mick uses dhl now, but the 25kg fedex box that my chardonnay arrived in measures roughly 17" x 22" x 14".

Thanks Kg, much appreciated.
I'm dying to get my mitts on this pre and if it betters
my Syrah I'll be very happy
Simon

Has anyone heard from Brad of Revelation Audio Labs recently?
It's been 6 weeks since my friend and I placed an order and paid for 2 umbilical cables for the Supratek preamp but we have not received the cables nor heard from Brad. Brad was prompt and polite when replying our queries before the sales. We are not too happy with his current level of service.

Interesting. Not less than 2 hours ago, I sent Brad an email to inquire about my order for same. I ordered and paid about six weeks ago too....

His last communique to me said he would notify me when it ships. Maybe the wait for the upgraded umbilical is like the wait for the preamp ;)

I have not received mine either - ordered about a 4-5 weeks ago. He answers his emails but in an elusive sort of way...can't seem to get a straight answer. Not sure what to make of it. I'll give it a bit more time.

Hi Guys, It could be that Brad is ill or has had a tragedy in his family. Hang in there ,Im shure you will find out soon...

gotta be something cause he was great with me prior to the sale as well as after the sale. The transaction only took about a week and a half for me. i would give it a bit more time.

Thanks for the cautionary tales, my enthusiasm for replacing the umblical is now low, given the troubles versus the marginal improvement. Guess I'll put a gold fuse in the Chenin for my latest upgrade fix.

Anybody know how to get the fuse out of the Chenin? It's supposed to be inside the iec, (on the PSupply side or preamp side?), do you have to take the base apart to get at it?

richmon:

i believe you can just insert a flat blad screw driver into the gap at the bottom and pry the fuse holder open. you might wanna double check with mick first. obviously, make sure it's unplugged before probing around with a screw driver.

Yep. The plastic fuse holder pops out with a screwdriver. Very simple. The gold fuses from The Cable Company (www.fatwyre.com) are a very worthwhile tweak for $35.

Slipnot1 and Ooslik : Any word yet on what you're hearing with the Revelation Audio Labs umbilical for the Suprateks ?

did a lot of listening this past weekend and I have to say that it's suttle. again the impression I am getting is that the transients are a bit faster with less glare throughout the musical range. Bass seemed to have a bit more slam and kick as well with the overall soundstage being wide and deep. Now it's been about 10 years since i have had a Tube pre...used to own CJ and ARC and listen to a bunch of Macs when I was a Rep working for high end shop in the DC area called Myer Emco. So some of this could be the pre itself coming into it's own......Apparently I was one of the last to get the 1 meter at a decent price I only paid $219 with shipping so I am not disappointed in the purchase. I also did not have any problems with Brad. So I am sorry to hear that others here are having some issues.

I received an email from Brad Sunday 3/11 stating that the umbilical "will be on it's way shortly", apologizing for the "unforeseen delay"..... I will post once it arrives.

On another subject: I just finished replacing the stock feet on both the PS and the head unit with Walker Audio Valid Points and Resonance Discs. Noise floor seems to have dropped another 10-20% over the rubber stock feet.

Ooslik...I find it interesting that you mention the following: "...the impression I am getting is that the transients are a bit faster with less glare throughout the musical range." I have burned in for 200 hours both the line and phono stages of my Cortese. I am still getting what I hear as some glare or harshness in the upper midrange, especially with instruments like trumpets. I did not have this before purchasing the Cortese, which was the only component that changed in my system. Let's just say that my previous preamp, built by an extremely brilliant friend I had known, no longer became serviceable. It too was an extremely fine unit with fairly high gain. Anyhow, I've tried some tube rolling ( replacing Sovteks will Mullard, Amperex, Siemens, etc.) but still haven't scotched the problem. I have yet to try the likes of 6SN7s by Ken Rad, RCA or Tungsol. I otherwise like the Cortese very, very much. It is a superb component. But there is that somewhat "glaring" issue that you've experienced too. I'm wondering what needs to be done to neutralize it. I still do have other options beyond tubes that I've yet to try, but do you, or any others having faced the same issue, have any suggestions---or---have any of you found as solution for it ? Thanks very much.

Opus88,
I think I've experienced similar midrange problem with my Chenin as well. My experience with tube rolling is very limited, but I feel NOS RCA Grey Glass helped in this regard.
I feel that most of the Supratek owners are kind of hush regarding this very issue and reading this thread very carefully, I've come across very few owners posting similar impressions as well.
I'm sure system synergy is very important, and one has to be very careful pairing Supratek preamps with the "right" amp and speakers.
I decided to give it another chance and oredered Cortese and Mondeuse, hoping that synergy will be "right".
Please, do share your further impressions.

I have ordered umbilical cord from Brad on 02/01/2007, every week he is promising to ship it next week. I really hope that this is not a scam. After one month he stopped answering my emails. I called him, he is just about to send it (for the forth time). What would not just he say that there is a 2 month backorder ? Why do some people do not have any regards to what they are saying? No self respect whatsoever....

Sorlowski, I understand how you feel. If Brad really has a problem fulfilling the orders, just say so. I don't mind waiting so long as the reasons are valid and he keeps me updated on the progress but nothing from him so far...
If anyone reading this knows Brad personally, perhaps you could let us know what's happening. Appreciate that.

Opus88 the glare issue seems to have been worked out for me by doing several things.....

1. I tube rolled and bought several sets of 6sn7 tubes here is what I bought
RCA's black base with grey glass
Sylvania's GTW ( I am at work so I can't rememeber axactly but it was the set that were for military use)
2 set's of Tung Sol's all black base
Ken Rads
I also replaced the rectifier tube with a Mullard. so far I have tried and burned in the RCA's and TungSol's. I did not like the RCA's but really like the TungSol's. With the RCA's the high's seemed a bit bright and the mids on some musical passages were harsh. I burned in all of the tunbes for about 100 hrs prior to listening. Did the same for the umbilical cord as well. Have not tried the Ken Rads or the Sylvania's hopefully I get to before my second child arrives. The other improvement I got from Tube rolling was that my loud thud through the speakers when you tap on the pre-amp is now completely gone....Everytime I went to mute or just tap the unit I would get this stinkin loud thud through the speakers...only when you tapped the unit or hit the mute a small thing but it did bother me. With the NOS tubes gone problem solved. It's been great. As for system cohesion I run an Accuphase A50A amp to B&W 802N speakers.

Thanks very much Ooslik...I just received some of the earliest RCA 6SN7GTs, and will try them in my system. I am also waiting to receive a few nice sets of early Ken Rads as well as single set of the Tungsol Rounds. Like you, I have on hand an early Mullard GZ34, but also a Mullard GZ33 and an Amperex 5AR4. The thuds and microphonics vary, of course, depending on what tubes are being used. In most instances, I can live with those issues. I just want to scotch the glare bugaboo. Beyond that, the Cortese is a wonderful unit. I have my slightly modified Air Tight ATM-3 monoblocks, and an extremely fine ribbon/driver hybrid pair of speakers built by the brilliant friend I alluded to in my previous comments. Then there's my Dunlavy SC-IVs, which are sitting in taped boxes in another room. As much as I enjoyed them, I have enjoyed the hybrids even more. Okay, enough for now. thanks again for the [hopefully] reassuring words.

NP and good luck I still think you should give the Umbilical cord a try....hopefully Brad will work out what ever issues he is having right now servicing everyone. If and when you decide to upgrade from the Cortese let me know as I am running the Chardonnay right now but love Vinyl. I run the Phonomena for the phono section.

I have recently purchased a Chenin and have a question regarding noise. I have not read all the posts so I appologize if I missed previous information. I am hearing a destinct hum out of my power supply even though it is away from my amp and not very close to my source. Is this normal? It isn't super noisy but it's definately there.

Bopo,
I'm not sure if this is similar to your situation but I had a problem with transformer hum coming from both my SS amp and Chardonnay power supply. The hum/buzz came from the power supply and not from the speakers and was audible from several feet away. Through some experimentation.. unpluging various AC sources, I discovered that when my plasma TV was on the same AC circuit the hum/buzz appeared. Now with the plasma TV is on a separate circuit and a PS-Audio Hum Buster in line, everything is nice and quiet. Apparently rogue DC current on your AC line can 'rattle' transformers.

Dave

Dave,

Thanks for the info. I will try unpluging my other components and see what happens. I am running my audio on a dedicated circuit but it's worth a try. I also didn't notice it when I first recieved it. If I need to I will get some sort of line conditioner. Thanks again.

Bryan

Bopo,

I had a similar issue, try moving the umbilical cord around as it is not shielded.

Mgv,

Thanks I will try that. I did try turning off all breakers except audio and still had the hum so what you are saying seems logical.

Bryan

If it was me having a hum issue, I will find out first if it is electrical or mechanical. Electrical, well, try simple process of elimination. Mechanical, make sure the bolt that hold the toroid in the PSU is tight (can easily seen from the top of hte PSU).

Pardon me but I have a question to ask to those who understand the subject matter well than I can. Bear with me and I dont intend to insult anyone. How can the umbilical cord produce a hum? I thought it carries DC voltages only. Hum if electrical, is AC isn't it? Its an oscillation ain't it? On this regard, another question if you guys do not mind. Why would an umbilical cord make a difference with regards to shielding if it only carries DC? Not to mention that the first stage that the power after rectification (PSU unit) will encouner is the regulator (there is an specific tolerance range where the regulator if working properly will regulate the voltage +/- a certain criterion)on the main preamp box itself so that the length of the cord, if not excessively long, will not degrade/decrease the DC voltages to a significant amount for the application as it encounters environmental interferrence when travelling from the PSU to the main preamp box.

Using a decent power cord from wall to the PSU, I understand that there can be improvements because I am experiencing it. Vibration points, I understand as well and agree that it makes a difference. But a shielded umbilical cord that carries DC improves the preamp performance? In what way and how?

Please, forgive me, but I am not looking for an argument but an explanation only. I want to learn what I am not familiar with (no sarcasm whatsoever!).

Halogen lights[or their transformers?] in my house can cause hums.
Fortunately I only have them in an adjoining room and can turn them off.

Any number of experts wil tell you this should not happen but it does.

I once had a louder then normal hum coming from the power supply of my Chenin.I was letting things warm up ,came back into the room. The hum was loud enough that it caught my attention from across the room.First thing I checked was the power and umbilical cords,they were fine.I went about listening to music. I marked it up to fluxuating a.c., a dip in current coming into my house.We have moved since then and I have not experienced this loud hum again.

Another point I want to bring up regarding a.c. coming into your home.Residential and commercial construction through out North America in the past few years has been incredible. This has put a strain on the grid in some areas resulting in poor supply, inconsistent supply of a.c. to your home. Where we use to live tens of thousands of new homes have been built along with many commercial factorys and business.Moving to another area, far less population, I have noticed consistent performance with my system . Like your vehcile,if its getting proper air density /fuel mixture it will perform at its peak....

Here is a link with some more info on transformer hum induced by DC on your AC line.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread/t-83784.html

Thanks for the thoughts and observations on the hum issue. I will check the voltage at my panel to see if it really is 120v. I have also tried unplugging all components except the pre with all other breakers off to see if it was interference from another component but there was no change. It's not a major issue because it is only noticeable from a few feet away. I will also check the bolt tightness. I had not considered that because it's a new unit. Thanks again.

Thanks for the explanations everyone. I am fortunate enough that my Chenin, after making the initial mistake of swapping tubes right away as soon as I received it, only had one small issue since 2004. I have this paranoia about the R channel on the phono a little lower in output than the L channel at identical gain pot settings. I wrote my concern to Mick and he sent me an schematic diagram to measure the voltages and make proper adjustments. After that, it's been working fine (knock on wood as I type this!) so far without hum or hiss for almost three years now.

regards

In my latest effort to deal with the "glaring" issue associated with my Cortese referred to above, I acquired and tried the RCA gray glass (actually, the earlier "lightening bolt" logo 6SN7GTs that preceded the VT-231 incarnation) and the KenRad 6SN7/VT 231s. In my system, just as in Ooslik's, the RCAs sounded somewhat bright and glarey here and there. The KenRads virtually eliminated the stridency entirely, but a bit of the upper midrange lost a touch of the air and ambient detail I had with my Raytheon 231s and General Electric 6SN7GTBs. I then replaced my Tungsol 5881s with some Sylvania 5881s, and restored just a bit more of that ambient detail. The trick involves getting involving upper end detail and musicality without the glare or stridency. Now, I feel more confident than before about getting there. My next step is securing a good, but not super expensive moving coil. (I've been using the low output--1.5mv.--Grado Sonata.) I also should soon be receiving those Tungsol 6SN7/VT231 Round Plates. Incidentally, in case I failed to relate before, I did not make a single tube roll until I arrived at 200 hours burn in of both the phono and linestages of the Cortese.

Tube rolling with the Supratek pres can be an expensive road to go down resulting in minor effect if any at all.I sold my phono grade black glass Tungsols 6sn7s when the going price of them reached $300,I more then doubled my money. The only select pairs of 6sn7s I have left in my stash are the formidable and attractive looking Sylvania metal base A and the W vintage. The best results were had with a $20.00 Bendix 6106 rectifier and apair of $8.00 Sylvania 6F6gs n.i.b. I have a dozen metal base rectifiers.Philips MiniWatt,BugalBoy, Mullard. N.O.S. select pairs of Genelex gray glass brown base KT-66. Select pairs of early vintage Telefunken,Seimens and Philips moving coil phono select.Right now in my phono stage Im using a $40.00 n.o.s. pair of PCC88 Telefunkens and a pair of R.C.A. 6c4s with excellant results. I gave all these mentioned above $$$ agood lengthy listen. The Bendix ,Sylvania and the $50 for a matched pair Sovtek Kt-66 have the best effect myself and others have found.....You really want to find out what your system can do? If you play vinyl, look into changing your tonearm wire to Nordost Valhalla and your interconnects to your phono stage with the Nordost new line. Far and away the best move you could make.And for a LOT LESS money then tube rolling with your Supratek pre......

Stiltskin,
You've done a lot of tube rolling with your Chenin,
but I would ask you the original question again- regarding midrange glare, that Opus alluded to in his post, and I also mentioned couple of posts back ( I don't think he and myself are smoking the same stuff).
Being through many combinations of stock and NOS tubes, have you ever heard that glare??? (I'd be surprised if you didn't),
and what in you experience is the combination of rectifier, regulators and signal tubes, that gave your the most relaxing and musical quality sound.
As I mentioned in my post, I've only tried Black Glass KenRads and Grey Glass RCA VT-231, and now looking for
rectifier and regulators, that would give me that "relaxed,
musical and non- fatiguing quality".
I've been looking at Philips Miniwatt (Mullard metal base are hideously expensive, and hard to get), and maybe Sovtek or Chinese KT-66.
Appreciate your expertise greatly.

Hey Stiltskin. Great post. And you have to love the return on your investment on the tung-sol rounds.

Hi Maril555, I'm no expert in this area, I stumbled through this hobby on and off for 30 years....I have not experienced an annoying glare in the midrange while tube rolling.Except while my new tonearm wire was burning in. I wish I had it cooked.....My focus while checking out vintage tubes was the rectifier and the regulators in my Chenin.I found the Bendix rectifier in combination with apair of 6f6gs to add meat to the bone from the lower midrange on down.The same effect can be found with a new pair of Sovtek KT-66s and the Bendix. In the line stage area. It is a waste to spend hundreds on a select pair of 6SN7s Im using a used pair of R.C.A. GTs clear glass. I have many more 6SN7s on hand that I could use..... Going back to the rectifier and regulators.I took Ecclectique knowledgable and expert advise in this area. I believe Ecclectique at the time had a Syrah model. It could very well be that this model of preamp responds to vintage tubes more so then the newer models.I am thrilled that my Chenin does not.

Could it be that Marill555 and I are the only Supratek owners facing the glare issue ? Probably not. Maybe it's all like the kind of experience I had a number of years back, when I owned Apogee Diva speakers. While they did things (in a positive sense) that I had never heard before from any other speaker, they had---you guessed it--an annoying upper midrange glare, no matter what I changed, component wise, around them. When I mentioned this to Apogee's creator, Jason Bloom, he denied there was any glare, and virtually said I was nuts. Undaunted, I wrote a letter to the editors at Stereophile, asking the same question, while acknowledging Jason Bloom's denial. The answer that appeared in print affirmed my impression. Maybe some hear the glare in their preamp, and maybe some do not. Frankly, I'm somewhat in agreement with Stiltskin's remarks about tube rolling and its costliness, and I'm ready to try some other non-tube possible solutions. At the same time, based on what I've heard using the stock complement of tubes (for 200 hours) that the Cortese came with, I cannot agree with the assertions of some other Cortese owners on Audiogon who claim that the stock tubes in the preamp offer the best sound. Again, it's possible that either they don't have, hear or recognize the glare that, at least, Marill555 and I are hearing. I still feel the Cortese is a superb unit, and will continue my search for that more unforced kind of sound Marill555 refers to. I welcome any other observations and comments from others who may be experiencing the same issue, and who may have found a positive way or ways to deal with it. Of course, there's also the possibility of bringing this up with Mick, but at this time, I'd rather try to deal with this matter on my own and not bug him. I have the feeling he's had his hands more than full with Supratek owners and would be owners.

Opus88, I have been awaiting for the Cortese line stage to arrive (the Sauv.) and I have been following this thread and this concerns me. Is this only when you use the phono or both including line for cd?

I currently have a Audio Research Ref3, spoke to a few people including Mick and they say this Sauv. I ordered is quantum leaps ahead of my ARC piece. I referred to Mick and others saying "this is a bold statement to make" so I ordered one to find out for my self to see if it's factual or just hype.

I'm hoping it's factual because I really like the look and a bonus would to be able to have two, one for upstairs and one for down stairs and still have extra coin left over.

If I was you I would contact Mick with your issues to see if it can be resolved otherwise sell it and get a pre the doesn't do that, I would.

I bought a bunch of Bel Canto gear recently because I wanted to find out for myself if all the talk about Ice amps etc. was all that or just hype. The reviews that I read, please. The product is okay for what it is but not even close to what the reviewers wrote, I just recently sold all of it.

Opus88,
I think you're right saying, that some Supratek owners do not hear that glare, or their system's specifics would make it less noticeable (like for instance pairing Supratek with "old school" CJ power amp).
I do believe many people are just not sensitive to this particular issue, and there are some, who are not willing (consciously or unconsciously) to admit to it.
I did bring it up with Mick and Kevin Kovi for that matter.
I feel I annoyed the living hell out of both of them, but at the same time, I have to admit, that Mick was extra patient and understanding.
The bottom line, though, was - "Supratek is just showing you how your system actually sounds like, and if there are any objectionable issues- they should be attributed to other parts of the system chain, room included".
Also Mick mentioned to me, that Supratek measures ruler flat into any load presented by power amp, and I do tend to trust him on that one.
On the other hand, I don't think everything we hear is measurable, and certainly not in the context of the whole system and acoustic environment of the room.
While waiting for my Cortese and Mondeuse amps, I redesigned my dedicated basement with the help of very knowledgeable people of GIK Acoustics ( and using their acoustic panels}, completely changed the support system for my speakers, including switching Mapleshade cones to Herbie's accessories and removing lead shot from Von Schweikert speakers in favor of sand ( as a side note, Steve Herbelin, a propriator of Herbie's Audio Labs suggested, that lead, having it's own resonance frequency, can introduce an unwanted colorations to the speakers sound. A call to VonSchweikert Audio confirmed that- they are using 12.5 lbs of sand in each VR-4JR at the factory, as opposed to their manual advising 20-40 lbs. of lead shot in each).
I'm hoping that all these changes I introduced to my room and system will help to ameliorate the above midrange glare.
Temporary system, I'm using now (NuForce AVP-16 pre-pro and Butler power amp.) is completely devoid of the glare.
Again, I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but if the issue will reappear again, it would be a major frustration, and financial loss.

Maril555...Yes, the argument that "other" factors are at work is the standard one. Sometimes, that assertion is accurate, sometimes it isn't. I do feel pretty confident though that Mick is correct here, and I too trust his judgment. I will continue to do my best in an effort to neutralize the bugaboo. My experiences with Mick have also been very positive. I've e-mailed him a number of times with various kinds of questions. He has always impressed me as having been forthright and concerned to help with any matters that have arisen. Incidentally, I too have a dedicated listening room. I always wanted one, and my wife was very supportive. Upon retirement, I had one built onto the house we purchased when we moved. I've fashioned my own acoustic materials, and they seem to work as well as those I fashioned some years back in my single days. Well, anyhow, here's to good listening. My fingers are crossed too.

I have never experienced any glare from my system when using the Syrah that I previously owned or from the Cortese that I now own. I am using a Berning ZH270 amp which is very revealing of any problems in the system. Everything sounds fantastic to my ears. As I have said before, tube rolling is a wast of time and money for me in my current system. I have not found any benefit from using NOS tubes in my Cortese. The biggest improvement that I have made to the sound of the Cortese has come from buying SRA iso bases for the Cortese and for it's power supply. I feel these are the best isolation bases you can get at any price and they have taken my system to new levels that I never dreamed of. This is the best $1200 I ever spent on my system. I will say that when I owned my Syrah I did feel that I benefited from NOS tubes, but I don't feel they are needed for great sound from the Cortese.

One other thought: Since every Supratek unit is individually made with point-to-point wiring, it is possible, at least in theory, to introduce some variability into the final product. Maybe Opus88 and myself just an unlucky few to own Supratek with this artifact.
It is a pure speculation on my part, though.