Has anybody got Malbec amps yet? |
Slowhand,
Thanks, I figured that much.
BTW: Why Melbac? It's Malbec |
Slowhand,
I checked with Mick regarding El34 vs. KT88 powered Malbec, and he says they output 50wt. in either iteration.
I'm thinking about EL34 Malbecs for VonSchweikert VR-4JR's, and I have Chenin almost ready to be shipped.
I would like to hear people's impression of Malbec when they put it in their systems, before ordering mine.
Also wondering what EL34 tubes Mick is supplying with the amp.
Whoever gets the Malbecs first, please post a review. |
What kind of support are you guys using under your Supratek?
I'm sure, there been a discussion about it, but I really have no time to read the whole thread right now.
The bottom plates of the preamp and the power supply look like they made from MDF or something similar? |
Kgturner,
Thanks for your response. Sorry, but I actually meant a type of isolation or absorbtion used, cones, sorbotane, etc.
I'm buildng flexi- rack with 2" Maple shelves, but not sure what type of isolation I should use. |
Richmon,
I'm in a similar situation, as you are. I recently bought a new Chenin from Mick M., and wanted to share my impressions.
When you say:"amount of ‘sweetness’ in the midrange, would like some more of that."- I'm not exactly sure what you meant, but what I'm hearing, is the slight emphasis in the presence region (voices especially).
It does make it sound very "alive", but on some recordings it becomes too forward, boardering on irritating.
Again, I like many things, that Chenin does excellently, but it defenitely will not let you " to sit back and relax", it requires your full attention.
And to me it's becoming a matter of personal preference in a sense what one expects from the listening session- relaxation or kind of an "analytical" and "wow" experience.
I should make a few reservations though:
My Chenin is new and likely is not broken-in fully
My source is digital (Modwright tubed Denon 3910)
And my impressions are of course relative to my previous pre-amp McIntosh C-45.
I would love to know if anybody else shares my impression of Supratek midrange?
Also, what tube(tubes) can make midrange to sound more "recessed" if you will. |
Asa, could you elaborate on your statement regard. "upper mids/lower treble? People working on that part"? |
I think one of the Supratek owners, posting in this thread, purchased Dodd to compare it with Supratek, and Dodd was up for sale in about a week.
Whoever you are- REVEAL YOURSELF NOW!!! |
Can somebody tell me if the stock feet on Chenin and power supply are removable? I'm going to try Herbie's tenderfeet under it, but afraid stock feet are taller than Herbie's.
It looks like the feet holding screws might be holding something else on the chassis. |
Kgturner,
Thanks for the response- so the screws need to be reinserted after the feet been removed. Would they go all the way into the chassis? |
|
Kgturner,
Did you get your Malbecs yet? |
Kgturner,
Could you post your early impressions at least, with an understanding the amps are still breaking- in.
I put a deposit on power amps, but still undecided b/w Malbec/Mondeuse. |
That's great. I'm all attention. Thank you. |
Opus88,
I think I've experienced similar midrange problem with my Chenin as well. My experience with tube rolling is very limited, but I feel NOS RCA Grey Glass helped in this regard.
I feel that most of the Supratek owners are kind of hush regarding this very issue and reading this thread very carefully, I've come across very few owners posting similar impressions as well.
I'm sure system synergy is very important, and one has to be very careful pairing Supratek preamps with the "right" amp and speakers.
I decided to give it another chance and oredered Cortese and Mondeuse, hoping that synergy will be "right".
Please, do share your further impressions. |
Stiltskin,
You've done a lot of tube rolling with your Chenin,
but I would ask you the original question again- regarding midrange glare, that Opus alluded to in his post, and I also mentioned couple of posts back ( I don't think he and myself are smoking the same stuff).
Being through many combinations of stock and NOS tubes, have you ever heard that glare??? (I'd be surprised if you didn't),
and what in you experience is the combination of rectifier, regulators and signal tubes, that gave your the most relaxing and musical quality sound.
As I mentioned in my post, I've only tried Black Glass KenRads and Grey Glass RCA VT-231, and now looking for
rectifier and regulators, that would give me that "relaxed,
musical and non- fatiguing quality".
I've been looking at Philips Miniwatt (Mullard metal base are hideously expensive, and hard to get), and maybe Sovtek or Chinese KT-66.
Appreciate your expertise greatly. |
One other thought: Since every Supratek unit is individually made with point-to-point wiring, it is possible, at least in theory, to introduce some variability into the final product. Maybe Opus88 and myself just an unlucky few to own Supratek with this artifact.
It is a pure speculation on my part, though. |
Opus88,
I think you're right saying, that some Supratek owners do not hear that glare, or their system's specifics would make it less noticeable (like for instance pairing Supratek with "old school" CJ power amp).
I do believe many people are just not sensitive to this particular issue, and there are some, who are not willing (consciously or unconsciously) to admit to it.
I did bring it up with Mick and Kevin Kovi for that matter.
I feel I annoyed the living hell out of both of them, but at the same time, I have to admit, that Mick was extra patient and understanding.
The bottom line, though, was - "Supratek is just showing you how your system actually sounds like, and if there are any objectionable issues- they should be attributed to other parts of the system chain, room included".
Also Mick mentioned to me, that Supratek measures ruler flat into any load presented by power amp, and I do tend to trust him on that one.
On the other hand, I don't think everything we hear is measurable, and certainly not in the context of the whole system and acoustic environment of the room.
While waiting for my Cortese and Mondeuse amps, I redesigned my dedicated basement with the help of very knowledgeable people of GIK Acoustics ( and using their acoustic panels}, completely changed the support system for my speakers, including switching Mapleshade cones to Herbie's accessories and removing lead shot from Von Schweikert speakers in favor of sand ( as a side note, Steve Herbelin, a propriator of Herbie's Audio Labs suggested, that lead, having it's own resonance frequency, can introduce an unwanted colorations to the speakers sound. A call to VonSchweikert Audio confirmed that- they are using 12.5 lbs of sand in each VR-4JR at the factory, as opposed to their manual advising 20-40 lbs. of lead shot in each).
I'm hoping that all these changes I introduced to my room and system will help to ameliorate the above midrange glare.
Temporary system, I'm using now (NuForce AVP-16 pre-pro and Butler power amp.) is completely devoid of the glare.
Again, I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but if the issue will reappear again, it would be a major frustration, and financial loss. |
Zachzdb,
I don't even want to make it a personal issue with you and your unbalanced post, I don't really care.
But I really think this discussion is helpful to all of us Supratek owners.
I think I could have not responded better, than Opus88 did.
The listening experience he's describing, reflects mine exactly- it made me first choose albums I wanted to listen to very carefully, and I found myself avoiding certain ones- as an example: Norah Johnes (the second one), Jethro Tull "Christhmas Album", many Beatles albums, all Rolling Stones SACDs, etc.
As Opus88 said, the problem is in slight elevation in the upper midrange (I think 1500-2000 Hz), it sounds almost like a resonant frequency of sort.
Am I imagining it?- hell no. It did make me wince, and turn the music off.
I'm sure room acoustics, vibration control and system synergy do play a role.
But here is my problem- I have no doubt, that Supratek emphasized all these potential problems, lying somewhere else in the system dormant, until it's introduction.
That pretty much reflects Opus88 experience as well- HE DID NOT HAVE GLARE IN HIS SYSTEM UNTIL HE BROUGHT SUPRATEK IN !!! I think that much is clear from his initial post.
Is that a Supratek "fault", I don't know, is this a culprit- most likely, which brings me back to a point I'm trying to make.
If one of the system components requires changing the whole system, cabling, supporting components, room acoustics and one's listening habits- You guessed it, something is inherently wrong.
Do I think all Supratek owners know nothing about organic sound?- NO, I DON'T.
At the same time I'm sure not going to discard my own listening experience as invalid- it is my experience, whether someone likes it or not.
My system at the time:
Modwright Signature Platinum Denon 3910- tube output stage
Supratek Chenin
BAT-75 SE
VonSchweikert VR-4JR.
As you can see not a single SS component.
I did use Herbie's on tubes and Herbie's tenderfeet under Supratek.
DIY 2" thick Maple shelves and brass rods rack, sitting on
Audiopoints.
DIY room treatments.
One comment about NuForce pre- it was introduced after I redesigned my listening room, and yes, there is no glare.
I did try Chenin with EAR-power amp (EL-34)
Butler (Hybrid design).
The glare problem was most pronounced with BAT (it does have higher resolution, than the above two amps).
For all happy Supratek owners- do not let that spoil your enjoyment, Supratek is highly musical, dynamic and exciting component.
One more comment- if you want to hear about somebody elses opinion on Supratek, please see A-gon section "Members systems", called "Almost live" in "All out assault" subsection. I think David can qualify as "non-mid-fi-hack" |
Thank you Joe,
A voice of wisdom at last. |
Zachzdb,
Why are you putting yourself in a position to be a Supratek defender?. Neither one of us "slammed" Supratek. I clearly stated, that I love many things it does better, that many other preamps.
I don't think Mick's business is going to suffer from this discussion. Again, I admitted in my post, that many other factors are most likely at fault.
The fact remains though- Supratek did highlight these issues lying elsewhere, maybe because of it's very high resolution, or a slight "midrange push", that makes it sound "alive" in a well balanced system, but IMHO has a tendency to expose system shortcomings.
BTW, "midrange push" or a similar term, is something I read in Supratek review in 6moons. Many other owners stated the same in this very thread.
Next point-"you are the first two to hear this"- not true, I read this whole thread, and there are at least two other people, who alluded to a similar problem.
I don't personally know Opus88, but have no reasons to believe yet, that he's not accurate in his description of "glare", since it describes my own experience EXACTLY.
Hardly a coincidence.
Let me repeat myself again, and not because of you, but out of respect to Mick- I do like Supratek, but I DID HAVE THIS PROBLEM IN MY SYSTEM.
One more point, that you have missed.
I think I stated, that I have Cortese and Mondeuse on order.
Regarding "you living with somebody with degree in psychology'- I laughed pretty hard. Does that make you understand psychology as well. I hope your knowledge of every thing audio is not by proxy.
(I'm a psychiatrist, BTW) |
I should put all my futher comments on hold, until I get my new Cortese and Mondeuse amps from Mick. |
Any group of posters devoted to one product, be it Supratek, or something else entirely, is a scewed sample.
I imagine that only those with a positive experience will bother to post here.
If I didn't like a certain component, I would never post in respective thread, just simply move onto something else.
Another consideration- if one doesn't like component, this means one needs to sell it. Posting ones negative impressions about it would not increase it's market value, would it?
Does it make Supratek an inferior product?- absolutely not.
Is Supratek beyond criticism?- possibly not. |
I personally don't have any axes to grind, but my point is this:
Just to make an example- in the field of medical research there is a term called "file drawer effect". What this means is- for instance if one is to read all published studies about drug X being efficacious for the treatment of desease Y, one will possibly find 3,4,5 or any number of published studies that found drug X indeed more efficaciuos than placebo. So you wou would assume, that this is a scientifically proven fact.
But, and a very big one is- at least in medicine, where most studies are sponsored by drug companies, only the studies with positive findings get published, and the ones with negative go to the "file drawer".
To a certain degree you can see the same effect here. Hypothetical people, who didn't find Supratek working in their systems are not likely to post in this very thread (I know, I wouldn't).
There are components I had in my system, that I didn't like, but after selling them, I simply will have no interest to post in the dedicated thread my negative impressions. I know I didn't like it, and will never buy it again- why spoil enjoyment for those who did?
Audiophiles are not hesitant to post a negative view in appropriate context.
I'm sure there are people who do not care for say, CJ or Krell sound. I can hardly imagine them going to forum dedicated to CJ, or Krell and bash the product there. |
Stevem1960,
Your points are very valid, and I did try to convince myself, that what I was hearing is the way actual instruments should sound like. But at times it simply was "too much".
You are very right about a possible need for a "paradigm shift in hearing and thinking". Just might not be that easy for some.
Actually I did contact Mick a few times, and he was very helpful trying to resolve "the problem".
At any rate, I've decided to give it another chance, and ordered Cortese and Mondeuse amps- delivery pending.
Will see.
I'm not so sure if Mick could change a sonic signature of the preamp, or at least he wasn't very enthusiastic when I asked. |
I'm still waiting on Mondeuse. Should be soon, I've been told. |
I'm still waiting on my Cortese and Mondeuse. Cortese is actually ready, and Mondeuse is in the final assembly stage. |
How many, and which ones specifically have you replaced? |
Rick000,
Any further impressions of Mondeuse?
I'm waiting on my pair, should be finished soon.
Thanks. |
Rick,
I'm encouraged by your experience with Mondeuse. Sure looking forward to getting mine. |
Pjwd,
At this point all I can say is this- dude, go calibrate your ears and be a little be more respectful talking to adults. |
Correction:
Cortese doesn't need to be on. HT bypass is completely
passive. Just flip the switch towards the back. |
Tvad,
Yes, HT is one of the inputs (I don't remember wich one)- connect R and L front channels outs of your pre to this input on Cortese, that's it. |
Viclondon,
Let me try this:
Just imagine your processor connected to your power amp, and now imagine Supratek being inserted in the ICs connecting the two. Again, it's completely passive, meaning it's not in the signal path (to a certain extent), and the whole system in HT mode is controlled by your processor. Supratek is functioning exactly what the name (HT bypass) implies, passing the signal through, without
any interference (almost).
I hope I'm making it clear, just had a couple of glasses of Montecillo, so you'd have to excuse me, if I'm not |
Lrsky,
I did misspelled- busy at work. I'm actually a physician, believe it or not.
Tvad, I didn't say there is something wrong with the coloration, it's that I didn't like that particular one.
And yes, it did sound exciting. |
Audiophile 1958,
Did you have a chance to make a direct comparison against Supratek? How does Dodd compare in the area of dynamics, one of the Supratek's strong suites? |
Sure,
I bought Nick Doshi ALAAP preamp, which sells for $10000.
(Mk. II is $12000)
So it makes it twice as expensive, than Cortese, but it's defenitely not twice as good. In essense, it just serves music in a different way, and it is strictly a matter of personal preference.
There are aspects of Supratek performance, that are better, than Doshi ( I think it is somewhat more dynamic), but like everything in audio, every advantage has a flip side.
I was waiting for it (Doshi) to show up for sale for quite a while, and it happened almost at the same time, as I took delivery of Cortese, so I decided to try something different.
So again, I cannot say conclusively which one is the better preamp, I think Doshi serves my current system and my current taste better, than Supratek. |
I just received new Chenin from Mick, cannot make any comments yet, it's still in the box. |
Fiddler,
I appreciate your statement, and actually I'n not surprized about your isolation findings, makes perfect sense to me.
Hopefully, I'm gonna get a Supratek phonostage , Mick is building for me, and I'll try your method. |
Does anyone know what kind of chassis wire Mick is using
in his preamps? Copper?, silver-plated copper? Silver? |
|
I'm not making any moves. I'm raher expectantly waiting for $2000 Mick owes me for over a year now.
I don't get response to every of my e-mails, just one out of 3-4, when I'm reminded, that I will get paid, when he has money. I'd give it another six-seven years, I guess.
Buying into a Supratek hype was one of the worst moves, I made in audio.
I'm pretty much done with all the small- time, "jiant killers" companies, whose products get hyped by two or three overexcitable A-gon users, getting reputation, they don't really deserve.
Last post(JeffJazz 11/09/08) about Michael Samra experience with Supratek is really very enlightening. |
That's interesting,
Somebody asking- what's new with Supratek, and when something less, than positive posted- no responses.
This whole "Preamp of the century" thread makes me to re- think value of A-gon posts and integrity of some of it's members. |
Well,
I do believe Mick was more attentive to his customers in the early years of Supratek, my experience correlates with the late stages of it's existence, and it was very clear, that his priorities had shifted.
I owned three of his pieces, and my cumulative experience is not insignificant.
Also, I've had numerous interactions with then current and ex- Supratek owners, all off of this thread, and their opinions reflected mine almost exactly. I'm talking about a few areas- sound and built quality more, than anything.
There have been a number of posts here on A-gon, discussing some sonic attributes of Suprateks.
And if one is careful and open- minded enough, one can gather less, than stellar impressions of MANY owners.
Let me be blunt saying this: I've owned and had a number of different preamps in my own system, since Supratek-
Doshi Alaap, Nagra PL-P, BAT REX.
All of them I found to be superior to Supratek, especially in the area of neutrality and timbral accuracy.
Let me be even more blunt. Supratek made my system pretty much unlistenable due to quite extreme sibilance and treble quality.
Again, I'm not being subjective to even a slightest degree- that's in comparison with at least THREE different preamps, in my own system, over a long periods of listening.
Next on to the build quality- please put any Supratek next to Nagra or BAT, then open the case, and then you'll see , that Supratek is nothing more, than a poorly built piece of
DIY.
Looks cool on the outside, though.
Next one - packaging. It's not even funny- the lowest quality of boxes,I've ever seen. They are not even dedicated boxes, just DHL standard box.
The hight dimension of the boxes is way too small for the height of the component, the box pressing against the fake trannies covers, making it way too susceptable to shipping damage. And I can attest to that. BOTH of my brand new Mondeuse amps arrived badly damaged, with bent chassis, entirely due to inadequate packing.
Should I go on?
As to the integrity of SOME members, known for trumpeting this product, I'm willing to explain it, in the best case scenario, by a limited exposure to better products- and that's is nobody's fault, of course. We are all entitled to our own opinions.
The worst case scenario is lack of restrain and objectivity, and willingness to be a messiah of the audiophiledom.
One reservation, though : In my humble opinion, if one is willing to influence many of the A-gon members purchasing decision, and let's be realistic- many of us, myself included, are influenced by A-gon members reviews, by posting unreserved praise about any product, then one should have enough integrity to make that praise as objective and evidence based, as possible. We are supposed to be a community of like- minded and mutually helpful individuals.
Many of us, fortunately are. That's why, I'm not making any blunket statements.
And the last thing- anyone can question my integrity, I don't mind. At least, I stated, what my opinion is based on, make your own conclusions, and tried to stay away from saying, that component "A" absolutely kills component "B". |
Kgturner,
If I remember correctly, didn't your Malbecs had a noise, from the day one, that even Kevin Covi couldn't fix?
Maybe those were somebody else's Malbecs.
Just another testimony to a product being offered for sale to the public, that wasn't exactly ready for the prime time.
Oh, well. |
Kgturner,
To be exact, I said "maybe even resold them, I don't know", and if he did, hopefully not as new. |
Ait,
I don't know what is it in my post, that made an impression, I was looking for a fight?
Does it come across as a little bit angry? That's probably because I'm angry.
Allow me to explain why:
First, I wasted many months waiting for the new amps, significantly longer, than was promised. The whole amount was paid upfront, of course.
Then, I recieve the amps visibly damaged, with the chassis of both units bent. One of the amps blew a tube and a fuse immediately upon turnung on, so I didn't dare to switch it on again.
Did I mention how poorly was it packaged?
I contacted Mick, sent him pictures of the units and boxes, so he could initiate claim with Fed Ex.
Clearly, I didn't want him to fix the amp and send them back to me, that wouldn't be a brand new amps, I paid for, whould it? At the very best, they would qualify, as refurbished, which again, not something, I paid the full price for.
So, being pretty much fed-up with all this, I politely asked Mick, if he would be willing to refund me my money.
I have to give Mick credit for agreeing to pay back, I would imagine, he could have said no.
And that's where it is, almost two years later- I owed $2000 still, no response to my last e- mail.
Before somebody tries to make an argument about refunds-
Imagine paying full retail price, 6 months in advance, for a custom made, brand new Mercedes, and have it delivered to you with body damage and two cylinders not working. Would you like it fixed and re- delivered to you anyway? |
I actually didn't expect anything less, but a repetition on the same theme- majority is always right.
Just to answer some specifics-
Tvad- I did return the amps immediately. I have contacted Mick the very next day, I took delivery of the amps, and sent them back a few days after.
I do believe, Mick filed a claim with FedEx, and I'm pretty sure (no confirmation), that FedEx did pay, since there was a pretty obvious damage to the boxes.
Upon receiving amps, Mick admitted, that they looked, like they were mishandled, and also stated, they "fixed them-up".
I do not know, if the amps were sold to someone else afterwards.
The point is- he agrred to refund my money, got the amps back, fixed them, maybe even resold them, and still didn't pay me.
Fiddler- your whole post is nothing more, than a series of assumptions, base on your less, than positive experience with your customers. I'm having difficult time to understand, what is the relevance in this particular case.
Theris no "other sides" to the story. Mick did admit to shipping damage after visually inspecting the units, after getting them back, and agreed to a refund.
You somehow implying, that I got perfect amps, dropped it down from my second story window, and made up the story to cheat Mick out of his hard- earned cash.
I don't think I ever asked anyone in this thread to vote to neither mine, nor Mick's favor, I just simply shared my experience.
Again, the argument about majority vs. Minority bears no relevance, nor it matters anything to me, or is capable of changing MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.
As to the comments about "about how a Supratek couldn't possibly survive shipping "- I would like somebody to make honest claim to a quality and adequacy of Supratek packaging.
It is unquestionably far below standards. Even cheapest of equipment, purchase someplace else, has far more reliable packaging. And, that Supratek is exactly cheap- the amps were $6500 |
Waltersalas,
I questioned the integrity of SOME Supratek owners, not of Supratek owners, and that's a principal difference.
And by any means, I didn't look for support, if I did, I would have posted two years ago, when Supratek was still in business. On a second thought, I actually should have, just to give potential Supratek buyers a different perspective.
If I had read anything like that, when I was ordering mine- my decision likely would have been different.
That's what I meant by mentioning integrity- objectivity and balanced opinions, negative included, is a sign of a person's integrity.
For those, who missed some discussions, supporting my listening impressions, please, refer to a post about "sibilance", within this thread.
Well, this is just my opinion, and I don't expect anybody to agree with it.
I do appreciate members sharing their experiences, that are different from the majority here. And that too, doesn't make the majority wrong and the minority right. |
Lrsky,
This thread and reactions to my post are very indicative of a bigger phenomenon, that permeates our society on different levels.
It just makes me to reiterate my initial statement- I have to re-evaluate my position on reviews and opinions posted here and also on integrity of some members. Good thing it's only an Internet forum. Imagine these folks on the jury duty- nothing but objectivism and no preconcieved notions whatsoever. |
