Hi Larry, l thought l would post my repsonse to your other thread here before it gets lost in all the possum vs Coon and red wine chatter!
Cheers
_________________________________________
There wouldn't be many around that have heard both, myself included. l bought the Chardonnay so l didnt have to wonder.
l would call Mick. l find him honest, he will tell it like it is and not just try and sell you the more expensive pre. He will explain the circuit differences etc and the sound differences, you can then decide if its worth it to you.
Cheers |
Aurel, I just checked with Mick on muting the preamp and his reply was, "The mute at front of preamp doesn't, but the HT bypass does- just put the switch to "HT" position and the pre is completely isolated from the power amp for turn on/off."
I hope that this helps.
Kenji |
I received my Chenin about 6 weeks ago. It is sheoak and chrome. It is labeled as a Syrah. Has anyone else had this happen? BTW I purchased based solely on the input from this thread and so far I am very impressed.
Thanks |
What are the differences between the Chardonay and the Sauvigon other than price? Is the up-grade noticeble? I just ordered a Sauvignon. How long have orders been taking recently. Thanks. |
Mine is an early version, and is jarrah & copper. I'm guessing there is something inside my towers, as there is some discoloration. But, it doesn't bother me at all. |
My preamp is about 2 and a half years old and the chrome towers in the back are shiny on both the top and all the way around the sides. I believe that some of the early pres housed something (not sure if it was the transformers) in them. Aurel, to answer your question, yes my Syrah does have a mute switch which mutes the preamp. I can turn my amp off first or my preamp off first and I get no sound through the speakers. I can't speak for Mick, but he may have left the towers on because it set the Suprateks apart from the looks of other preamps. You would have to ask Mick to find out for sure. |
Slowhand : Decorative ??? Thanks for your message. I don't like very much the idea of such big "towers" just empty and unuseful !!! Anyway the point is : you also confirm that the Cabernet is transformer coupled ? Best regards. |
Ongkaku : Thanks for your kind answer. But I was wondering if there were a mute fuction on the PREAMP which really kills the preamp outputs when turning it on (allowing the amp to be "on" all the time). Indeed, even with the AMP muted I wouldn't turn on the preamp with the the amp turned on : you proect the speakers but not the amp itself.
Thanks and regards.
Aurel. |
Correction:
"I believe the round semi-cylindrical "thingy" at the back of each regulator tubes are the transformer for each channel output."
I should have said "...were the transformer was "housed"...."
Thanks Slowhand for the correction. One question though, I have seen older Syrahs were there is a significant discoloration on the "dome" top not the sides near the regulators which un-mistakenably heat related. So these were the pre "in-house" series? My Chenin is almost 9 months now and it is still spotless! So that will point out that the change occured not more than 10-11 months ago?
Just curious. Thanks for any info in advance that you can provide. |
I believe the "towers" behind the regulator tubes are just decorative. At one time they housed the transformers, but I think the tranformers are now inside the preamp. Mick left the towers because he liked the looks.
|
Aurel,
I read that all Supratek preamps are tranformer coupled. I could be wrong but the info is in the website.
I believe the round semi-cylindrical "thingy" at the back of each regulator tubes are the transformer for each channel output. BTW, I have the Chenin.
Well, in any case, if you can post here I am pretty sure that your English is fine and Mick will understand your inquiry. |
Aurel, I am happy with the Plinius + Supratek combo. The Mute function of the power amp is a must before turning on/off the Supratek preamp. The Mute really "kills" the output of the power amp, so don't worry.
Kenji |
Ongkaku : you are using a Supratek Cabernet with a Plinius
amp ! It's very interesting for a friend of mine (and maybe even for myslef although I am very please with my Plinius preamp) because we have a Plinius SA250 amp and consider a good tube preamp !
You are happy with this combo ? Plinius and Supratek are good friends :-) ?
A detail : It would be good to live the amp "on" all the time (as recommended by Plinius) and to switch the preamp "off" when not used (to avoid changing the tubes every year !). For this, is it possible to use the mute function of the Cabernet ? I mean : does this really "kill" the outputs so that it is safe to switch on the preamp while the amp is already "on" ?
Any comment would be welcome. Many thanks.
Kindest regards,
Aurel. |
Cabernet transformer or capacitor coupled ? Jazzdude : thanks a lot for your message. Following an email from Mick, I think the Cabernet is transformer coupled. But my english is not perfect (and I don't want to disturb him too much !) : could a Supratek expert confirm this ??? Anyway, thanks for your input. It really make me want to buy it. Best regards. |
Bill:
I have no suggestions for a turntable that will match with a Supratek. What's important is the match among the turntable, tonearm, and cartridge. If that works, everything else is gravy. |
Hi Wc65mustang, No insult taken whatsoever. In fact, I very much appreciate your comments. And my questions about the MMF 7 come from the fact that I suspected what you said about it. This is why I initially asked about the linestage only supratek, but all the comments about the phone stage have me reconsidering what I might do. If the Chenin would be a significant improvement in the line stage over my modified AN M2, then I could go with that and later sell my MMF 7 & Audion phono stage to purchase a turntable worthy of the Supratek.
Like you said, I need to email Mick. Because if the Sauvignon line is a lot better than the line in the Chenin, then I'm tempted to go with it and save the phono upgrades for a later time.
I sincerely appreciate your feedback; it's been very helpful. I'm pretty set with the AN Quest Silvers and the Zingali speakers, but everything else is subject to upgrades. So if I may impose further, do you have any recommendations or suggestions about a Turntable that would go well with the Supratek?
Again, I really appreciate your honest assessment. Anything else wouldn't really be helpful.
Bill |
Jay461: swap signal tubes left-right to see of the crackle follows the tubes. Do the same with the regulator tubes, just to be sure. It really sounds like the signal tubes to me. |
Dsiggia: Might try rolling the regulators and rectifiers also. The tung-sol 5881 is ok, but you can do better. Might want to try the 6f6g, kt-66, or 6l6g. You should give the ken-rad 6sn7gt a try also. |
Aurel: FWIW, the Cabernet that I have appears to be capacitor coupled on the output stage instead of transformer coupled like the cortese/chenin. There are at least 2 large capacitors in it. Have to be careful when turning it off because of the caps discharge. Turn off the power amp first, but this is recommended for all high-end gear anyway. No one that I am aware of has had their gear damaged by their supratek preamps. My Cabernet has been powered on continuosly (24/7)for 6 weeks with nothing more that an occaisonal (couple times a day) low-level tic or pop from a tube, which is normal in tube gear. I doubt a Supratek preamp would pose a threat to your existing equipment...but you do seem rather risk averse. Might want to email Mick about your concerns. |
Bill, Don't take this the wrong way and there is no malevolence intended here but the MMF-7 and Eroica are hardly worth all of the effort you are expending here vis a vis the preamp project. This is a very average tonearm with a very average cartridge. You will never realize the full sonic benefits of a good phonostage/linestage or a good preamplifer (with phonostage)with them. Now if you intend to upgrade to a better turntable/tonearm/cartridge in the near future, then I would say go ahead with your Supratek quest. Again, this is my take on the issue. I owned an MMF-7 a few years back and for the money it's tough to beat but in the context of the other equipment you're considering, it's out of place.
I hope there are no hard feelings. |
Thanks Joe and Wc65mustang,
Yeah it's probably time for me to start emailing Mick, but the constant glowing reports about the phono stage keep me wondering if I can still use my MMF 7 with it. The turntable comes mounted with a high-output MC Golding Eroica that is picked to match the Music Hall. My return to vinyl has been within the last year, and it's been wonderful. I can't upgrade my turntable/cartridge and get a Supratek. Does anybody have an idea if my turntable with be a decent match with the Chenin or Cortese?
On another note Joe, have you heard Zingali speakers? My local dealer is a major AN supporter. Peter has visited several times and usually stays at his house when he does. Nice guy Peter. My dealer has the Quest Silver Sigs and is currently getting upgrades from Peter at the CES. He's sold a lot of AN stuff, especially amps and DACs, but he carries the entire AN line. He has several pairs of AN speakers, and I've heard them. But I can't remember which models. The Zingali speakers, however, are the star attraction and hooked up to Quest Silvers. If you want to talk about beautiful, the Zingalis are absolutely gorgeous. And the AN-Zingali match is truly magical. The Zingali website is Zingali.it, I think. If not, I'll check and let you know. The importer is Fanfare.com.
Now about your Syrtese?
Thanks again, and let me know what you think about the Zingali's. Are you at all close to the Sacto area Joe?
Bill |
My concern about Supratek...
After having red all this thread, I am convinced that the Supratek preamps (I'm interested in the Cabernet) 1) look great 2) sound great. My concern in the following : I have a $$$ directly coupled SS amp and $$$ speakers. I don't want to damage them in any way ! Usually, tube preamps are not good with amps without caps because they can have a continuous component that would destroy the speakers. As I understand, Supratek preamps have output transformers and, therefore, are 100% safe from the point of view of a DC component. But what about a tube failure or any other problem ? I like the tube sound but I'm a bit scared... Any input on this ? Do you think it is as safe and as reliable a good SS preamp ?
Thanks and best regards. |
After watching this thread closely for a long time, it's time for me jump in. I have been proud owner of a newer model Cortese for about 3 months. The Cortese replaced a SF Line 3SE without blinking an eye. My unit has the latest phono stage Mick introduced in 9/04. I listened to the stock tubes for about 200 hours before I started rolling some NOS tubes. I replaced the power supply tubes with a Mullard 5ar4 & Tungsol 5881's. The Line stage received a pair of black bottom RCA 6sn7's, the phone stage a pair of Tele CCa's. I didn't replace the Phillips E180f's or the Sylvania 12b4a's that are stock with the unit. When I replaced the tubes, there was an imediate improvement as I suspected there would be. These tubes were extremely transparent, very detailed, nice spacing between the instruments which made a more defined soundstage, but after about 300 hours of listening I felt the bass was too thin for me to be extremely happy with the tubes. I decided to play around with some other 6sn7's. I replaced the RCA's with a pair of Sylvania 6sn7's and these had most of the characteristics of the RCA's, bass slam was better detailed, but the music felt too forward in it's presentation. The next pair I tried was Tungsol's 6sn7's & bingo! The Tungsol's are open, detailed, natural, and the bass is strong, punchy, and tight.
Thanks to everyone on the thread for helping out so much. |
Hi Bill, Just checked in and saw your post. Thanks. I know the M2 is better than the M1, but I didn't think there was that much difference. Now the M3 was another story. Remember, it could just be my ears. But I think the Supratek is better. I'd go with the Supratek over an M3, because as noted ad nauseum, the phono stage is SO GOOD. For vinyl, and digital from what I've read (not being a big digital fan I really don't care, so I can't comment on that aspect of it) I'd go with the Sauvignon in a minute. I'd bet he phono stage is that much better than the Audion, but again, I have not heard it so can't really comment. Now remember, I am a BIG FAN of AN products. So that means I have some sad news. I have decided to sell my SyrTese. I need the funds to finance building a set of AN Kit 3 speakers and I can live without a seperate pre while I get it done. Wc65mustang said it very well: You only live once I suppose but we all live on budgets. One of the features that comes with Mick's preamps is they will sell quickly and without much $$$$$ loss, if any, should you need to move it This was a tough decision, and mainly a financial one becuse I am on a budget. If my wife knew what some of this stuff cost.... I've been wanting to upgrade my speakers for a long time now. I guess I made the decision based on my experiences with Audio Note. I really like AN gear, even at the level I have and want to go to a higher-end all AN system. Since I want to go higher on the AN level system, I've been kind of stuck cause I can't afford 8 grand for a used set of E/SEC that show up occasionally here. So I've been talking with Brian at AN Kits and then this showed up: Nico's Kit 3's Talk about timing. Brian told me last week he would have the Kt 3's in stock in early Feb. So that's my next project. But the only way I can do it is to sell the Supratek. And I am going to miss it! |
Crackling sound on my right speaker. I have run my Chardonnay for about 50hrs. with the stock tubes (EH/Sovtek) supplied by Mick. When I turn down the volume with or without playing a CD I can hear crackling and hiss noise from the right channel even as far as 7ft.
As suggested by Mick I have the tubes with the white mark placed in the left channel and the other on the right.
I have the pre set up just as in the manual and the gain switch is at 5th position.
I'm using the TEAC VRDS 10 as a transport hooked up to the tubed Audionote DAC 3.1x signature (not balanced)with the MC352 power amp.
Overall I'm not too happy with the sound. Can you'll give me some input? Thanks. |
Chardonnay is linestage of Chenin (formerly Syrah), Sauvignon is linestage of Cortese, and Cabernet is linestage of Grange.
I am familiar with the Audion but more importantly have not heard it with your gear which is really the key in evaluating any component. That being said I come back to my previous points regarding shorter signal path, etc. and the advantages of them.
How do the Chenin and Cortese compare you asked? I guess my thought here is to contact Mick and get the scoop from him. Initially I was going to buy a Cortese but after numerous emails and discussions with him decided to have a Grange built; it matched up with my other components better than the Cortese. You only live once I suppose but we all live on budgets. One of the features that comes with Mick's preamps is they will sell quickly and without much $$$$$ loss, if any, should you need to move it. I can't recall seeing any Supratek preamp lasting more than a few days on Audiogon. Take your time and make the right decision. |
Thanks for the feedback, but isn't the Chenin the new name of the Syrah? It costs around $2900, while the Sauvignon is the line only for the Cortese. The Cortese is about $5000 while the Sauvignon is around $3500. So I could go $2900 or $3500, but I can't go $5000. So I guess my basic question is whether the line stage of the Cortese is that much better than the Chenin? Hell I don't know, but I really appreciate your input. I wonder if the phono stage is that much better than the Audion. The Audion is pretty darn good. Are you familar with it? |
Mick's phono stages are wonderful as you've read here and in other on-line forums. An additional incentive is the shorter signal path, fewer connections, and elimination of another interconnect. If matrimonial harmony permits it, buy the Chenin. You can recoup some of the extra money you need for the Chenin by selling the Audion and extra interconnect. Just my $02#. |
Hi again Joe,
I just realized, I think, that you were talking about the M1 part of your AN Soro. Have you heard the M2? I thought that there was an enormous difference between the M2 & the M1. In fact, when I took my M2 in for a mod, I had a M1 loaner. I ended up hardly listening to music. I've also had an M3 home for a listen, and I found it good but not impressively better than the M2 modified. Now I've also just seen your post about having to go up to an M5 to get in the range of the Supratek. Now that's saying something!!!!
If I may ask, would you recommend the Sauvignon or the Chenin? I know the former is line stage only, but I pretty happy with my Audion phono stage. It seems to fit my MMF well, which is set up for MM cartridges & has an installed high out MC. Somewhere down the line I'd like to upgrade my turntable, and maybe then the phone stage of the Supratek will be useful. But right now I'd like to get the best line stage I can, & it seems like I'd get more with the Sauvignon.
Again, thanks for your feedback. This is a difficult and frustrating decision, but it's sure a lot of fun!!!
Anybody else have some advice? I'd love to hear it.
Bill |
Thanks a lot Joe, I really appreciate your comments. Yeah I love the Quest Silvers. With Western Electric 300Bs & NOS 6SN7s they are truly special. My M2 is UK designed, with the outs on the side, and it has been modified as I said. I've also got some great CBS-Hytron tubes in it. So my question is do you think that the Supratek would be a significant upgrade from the M2. With the CES going on I was able to take home the Audio Valve, and it is notably better than the M2. It's just that the Supratek looks so damn beautiful. I can't get them out of my mind, but I also want a significant sound improvement over the M2.
Beautiful turntable, by the way.
Thanks again,
Bill |
Bill, I use the Supratek with AN gear. I have a Soro SE Phono, which is the M1 with a P2SE in one box. It does have a few mods. I also use AN speakers, CD player and some AN cables (I constantly switch, AN and others), both silver and copper. While my Teres is a little better than you MMF, your amps kill mine. I've heard them, and if I could afford them.... Between the tubes I'm using and the mods there is not much difference on the pre side. So, what I am trying to say is it is a very good mix, the Supratek and Audio Note. I too would have the M6, but 7 grand used I can't swing. Not having heard the Audio Valve I can't offer a comparison there, but I REALLY like the Supratek. Mine is an oddball one, I call it the SyrTese. I may have the only Syrah with the Cortese power supply. To quote Mick "I did some neat things with that one." The only thing that would possibly knock the SyrTese out of my system would be building an Audio Note Signature pre kit. Based on the M7, but upgraded heavily, it may be one of the best values out there. But for now, all I can say is from my experience, the Supratek works VERY well with Audio Note gear. Give it a shot. If you can find one used, one thing you don't have to worry about is losing money on it if you don't like it. |
Mondie
>>l am not sure what happened to the Grange, it must have disappeared only in the past few days.<<
The Grange is now a "special order" product and, as such, not displayed on the website. The time and cost of its' production has forced Mick to emphasize the other products as demand for the amps, preamps, and linestages continues to increase.
I ordered my Grange over a month ago and probably won't take delivery until mid-late February. So be prepared to wait 8-10 weeks if you are thinking about taking the plunge. |
I'm searching for a preamp upgrade. I have an AN M2, modified with blackgates, wire, etc. I've tried the new Lector ZOE out of Italy, and I'm currently trying out the Audio Valve preamp. The Audio Valve seems like the best so far, but I'm curious about how it compares to the First Sound and Supratek preamps.
I have AN Quest Silver SET monoblocs, Zingali Overture 4 speakers, AN 2.1x CD player, Music Hall's MMF 7 turntable, Audion phono stage, AN silver interconnects, Apature speaker cables, and Analysis plus power cables. The front end is all plugged into Richard Gray 400.
I'd really appreciate any feedback, advice, thoughts about what preamp I should go with for my system. The AN 6 is way beyond fantasy for me.
Thanks, Bill |
Kevin (Ella4ever): My purchase of a Chenin was motivated by this thread. Planning on a return to vinyl, I needed a pre-amp with phono (was running a Waida direct into my amps).
Just thought I would advise that the Chenin exceeded my expectations. Rather than being a detriment by being between my Wadia and amps, it was a wonderful addition. More importantly, playing vinyl again is a blast. Other than to compare a CD with an LP, I haven't listened to any of my CD's, since the purchase of my new vinyl rig.
Cello advised you to check out Teres, and I did, but after fliping a coin, I decided to go with Galibier. Both Chris at Teres, and Thom at Galibier started down the the same Turntable development path, but eventually took separate courses. While I've had great results with my Galibier Quattro, and I can't say enough good things about Thom Mackris of Galibier, I'm sure Chris and his Teres Tables would provide similar results.
In any case, if you decide to go the vinyl route, you wonÂt regret it, and the Supratek purchase. |
Hello Mondie, I had the correct number, but I think there is an international call block on my phone that I will have to get lifted. |
Tom,
l am not sure if the prefix (011) is the correct international prefix for calling from the US. If you have a phone where you can call + 61 8 9757 9786 then that may work. The number is right, spoke with Mick yesterday enquiring about when he may have a pair of loaner Merlots available. Sounds like l am in for a long wait :(
Thanks for the info on the KT-66's Kenji, l will have to keep an eye out for a pair.
Cheers |
Kevin,
l am not sure what happened to the Grange, it must have disappeared only in the past few days. Its my understanding that the Grange utilised the same phono section as the Cortese. Mick has done a small redesign on the Cabernet, it now runs PX4's in place of the 101D's as shown in the pics. Not sure if that change has anything to do with the vanishing Grange.
l am sure he could build you a Grange if thats what you wanted.
Cheers |
Hi Larry,
That is the number I called, but I just get a recording that the number cannot be connected. I tried calling the operator, but she was no help. She just said it was a good number. |
.
Tom,
.
Try dialing 011 61 8 9 757 9786 if you are still up. It is 14 hours later than Eastern Standard Time.
.
Good luck.
.
Larry
. |
Mondie, the Genalex KT-66 tubes are hard to get nowadays especially the smoke glass version. I got a matched pair (through a friend) for about three hundred bucks. They sound sweet and warm with powerful bass.
Kenji |
Ongkaku, Thanks. When I dial it I get a recording that says the number cannot be connected. I will try again tomorrow. |
Slowhand, the number is correct. I called Mick on Tuesday without any problem.
Kenji |
Have any of you guys ever called Mick in Australia? I tried the number on his website, but it says the call cannot be connected. The operater says that it is a good number. They said to dial 011 and then the number, but no luck. The number on the website is 61897579786. Let me know if you have another number. |
.
Kevin,
.
You are welcome. Do let us know how you make it out and for sure when you get your Cortese or Grange.
.
You can always get tubes shipped from the U.S.. Email me off line when you get your pre-amp and I will send you some sources for NOS tubes.
.
Not to worry on getting rid of your table. There have been all kinds of great advances and you have probably done yourself a favor by starting over again. Check out Teresaudio.com when you have time and check the threads on Audiogon related to Teres. There are plenty of other great tables available and you should be able to get some great advice on Audiogon.
. |
Thank you to Ecclectique, Cello ,Slowhand , Cello , Mondie and Pablovila ( nice story-never heard of that happening before) for the replies and reassurance.Now the hard part will be deciding which one. I take Slowhand's point about the Cortese and vinyl-like a fool I got rid of my table some years ago but not the records ( CD- perfect sound forever -hah!).So hopefully will re-enter the vinyl world. The Grange no longer appears on Mick's website-I will contact him but does anyone know if he still makes them?
Also , a constant theme in the thread is the value of tube rolling after breakin. In New Zealand, not a huge availability.I havefound upscaleaudio.com ; any other sources.Thanks again for the replies.
Regards,
Kevin |
Thanks Ongkaku, enjoy your Cabernet...it only gets better! That must be why Mick named his preamps after wines, they only get better with age. |
Congrats Ongaku.
Great to see you got your problems sussed. l had a similar experience with mine, no sound initially until l dicked around with the toggles and got it working. Havent touched them since!
How much did the Genalux KT-66's cost? Sound like a nice upgrade.
Cheers Simon |
I meant NU 350B's, not NU 350A's in my post above.
Cheers,
Kenji |
Thanks Ethifi for the advice. There are only two toggle swictches on top of my Cabernet, one is HT bypass and the other is Mute. I did not ask for a Tape Loop in my preamp. Everything is working fine now and the sound was "Amazingly Satisfying & Musical" straight out of the box with stock tubes. The Cabernet is paired with my Plinius SA-102 poweramp driving the Harbeth M20 mini monitors.
I plugged in the smoke glass Genalux KT-66 to my Cabernet power supply unit yesterday evening..replacing the stock Sovtek tubes only, all I could say what Ecclectique said was true, I was very near to nirvana now! After 300 hours or so I will try those NU 350A's. I guess that's it, audio nirvana is reachable through Supratek for common folks like me ^_^. And thank you Slowhand for starting this wonderful thread. You have earned a place in Audigon, Sir! |
A little anecdote to back up CelloÂs point about MickÂs caring and honesty. Mick agreed with my decision to buy a Denon 103R to replace my MM cartridge in order to use the phono section of the Chenin. The Denon didnÂt fit my Linn Ekos. Mick bought my Denon at the price I paid for it. Do you need anything else to have a picture of the guy? Regards, Pablo. |
