Thanks Slowhand. That's exactly what I need. Jazzdude, I don't have issues with microphonics. What I notice is that very quiet 6SN7's are difficult to find. There is a background noise that is circuit noise. I'm guessing that since the tubes are so close to each other that they may be picking up noise from each other. I was wondering if anyone has placed a temporary grounded shield around each tube to lower the noise floor. No need for me to try this if others already have. Again, it's not that noisy and I'm not disappointed. Can't blame me for wanting it to be totally silent. |
Lugnut - the preferred tube compliment will vary with your tastes. I don't recall ever noticing a recurring full tube compliment. There are definately some individual tube positions where some consensus has developed. Why don't you give us an idea what kind of sound you are looking for.
Try Hal-O tube dampers if you have issues with microphonic tubes. |
Hello Lugnut,
Good to hear from you. Here is my favorite tube compliment in my Syrah.
Tung Sol 6sn7 Round Plates
Rogers 6f6g's or Genelex KT66's
Amperex 5842's
Mullard 6GK5's
Bendix Redbank 6106 or Tung Sol 5Y3's
The 6f6g's have a more dynamic sound, the KT66's have a more laid back sound with a fatter bass (good for the Jazz I like).
Hope this helps. |
Hi Guys,
My Syrah is working pretty well but I have yet to find the perfect combination of tubes to maximize its potential. This thread is so time consuming and I'm so lazy! Has anyone compiled a list of tube compliments that are proven to work well together? I'm talking about complete nine tube compliments. It would sure be helpful.
Also, has anyone experimented with tube shields in an attempt to lower the noise floor? I don't find the amount of tube/circuitry noise to be a problem since my speakers are reasonably inefficient but I would think it would be annoying with some speakers. The 6SN7's seem to be very prone to noise issues and I'm wondering if all the tubes are perhaps picking up noise from each other. |
Thanks JazzDude! Coming from you, I should not worry about getting them tubes then.
Thanks again! |
Amandarae - I tried out the Sylvania 6sn7W short-bottle with black bakelite base in my Sauvignon a couple years ago. To the best of my recollection the bass was big and kind of tubby. The upper midrange and teble were closed in. I don't have any lasting impessions of the midrange. |
So, nobody is using Sylvania 6sn7Wxx on their unit? |
Sandro,congrads on recieving your Cortese!!!! |
Hello,
I have two questions.
1.) For Chenin owners, Can you share your phono tubes currently in use please? I am enjoying great results with Mullard M8080 and TFK E88CC/CCa or Phillips 6922.
2.)Anybody using a Sylvania 6SN7Wxx tall or short bottle in their Supratek's? Thoughts, impressions?
So far, I have the Tungsol, KenRad, Raytheon, Sylvania, and RCA. All are VT-231.
Thanks |
Forgive the intrusion, just to share my excitement, I have the Cortese in my car and in few minutes I'm leaving my office and bringing it at home. It took four days to get it from Australia to Italy, in my hands, incredible.
Thanks to everyone for this thread and the helpful answer I got in the past.
Sandro |
Hi Steelhead. Yeah, Your very welcome sir and I'm glad your happy with it, a superb tonearm for mc cartridges. congrats on your chenin. cheers David |
Can anyone tell me if there are other options as to the inputs on the back of Supratek preamps. I would not use tape inputs or home theater bypass. All my music consists of LP's and CD's. Would another phono input with 4 more phono setting be a better idea? What other things have some of you guys had Mick do as far as inputs on the back of your Suprateks? |
Hi David,
How would you describe the sound of the single triode tubes compared to the 6sn7's. I know that you have stated that you like them better, but what do you hear as the difference in the way they sound. I am still on the fence as to having Mick set my Cortese up for dual single triodes or 6sn7's. Mick seems to prefer the 6sn7 setup. He thinks it has a sweeter sound.
By the way, I am trying my friend,s 1621 metal tubes in the regulator position now. First impression is that they have a crisp sound with good bass, but a little too bright on the top end for me. I will have to use them more to form a better opinion. |
Guys, consider giving this thread a rest and starting new, topic-specific Supratek threads. It is incredibly hard to sift through the information on the 1850+ posts. |
Ecclectique, Greetings.
Are you the person that emailed me stating never to sell my Fidelity Research tonearm. You helped me in sourcing a FR headshell for it. I wanted to thank the person but had lost the email address. (Incidentally I love the FR arm).
If not, sorry to bother.
Own a Chenin and apologize to butt in on the thread about FR products (kind of the same though, true classics one just newer than the other).
Regards, Steelhead |
|
Hi Edmund. The ASL 1009's are fabulous amps for the money. |
David:
[/Have you spent much seat time with the preamp in the low gain setting?]
Yes, I did but found that the sound was weaker, more backward and image lacked substance compared with the high gain setting. **sigh ** I wrote to Mick about it and he said it had to do with my power amp. I'm saving up for a Antique Sound Lab (either a Hurricane or AQ-1009) - heard them few weeks ago and fell in love with the live music they made!
Cheers Edmund |
PS: Jpms. You are a true gentleman sir! I sincerely appreciated your email today, thanks again. cheers David |
Hi Jazzdude. Thank you for your prompt response. I have little doubt the line of the Grange will best the cortese with the same single triodes in it for line gain. But is the cost of going that route really justifiable? If I do order one it will definately be wired to accomodate a pair of single triode octals per channel as opposed to the dual triode 6sn7.I can always rewire the sockets to accomodate the 6sn7's anyway.The delema here is: My main rig is voiced primarily for vinyl playback as I rarely listen to digital in that system, thus my apprehension in regards to going to the grange. I would have to sell either the cortese or the syrah to do so. I am leaning toward selling the syrah at this point as I will move the cortese into my second system to replace the syrah if finances permit. My cortese is just incredible with the 7193 in it!!! however the influence of the line gain is negligable at best when using the phono stage of the cortese anyway... thus my anxiety here.Anybody in the Golden Horseshoe of Ontario with the grange or cabernet? |
Ecclectique - I don't have the grange. My cabernet doesn't use the px4 or 300b. But comparing the linestage section between the Mick's upper and mid-line preamps I am certain that the grange will easily best the cortese. Mick can easily put the 6j5 in place of the 6sn7 if that is what you prefer. Basically all the nos tubes you currently use for the cortese can also be used in the grange with the addition of the px4 or 300b.
I have spent some time with some very fine systems including one all-tube system with vinyl front-end and total system cost exceeding $200k USD. My humble system with a SS poweramp has more tone than any system that I have ever heard including the one I just mentioned. The cabernet is what puts me over the top. |
Hi Gang. Ongaku, thanks for the post. Sandro, congrats on your new supratek and I am sure you will enjoy the ride. EThifi, Have you spent much seat time with the preamp in the low gain setting? If it is loud at 9 oclock on the volume control, it leaves you with a very small window for adjusting the proper gain variations of many recordings...... WCmustang....While neither my syrah nor the cortese use the ecc88 in the phono stage, I do have an ARC sp-10 and the Klimo merlin in others systems. Both employ the ecc88/6dj8/69922 family of tubes and are very fine sounding high end preamps. I have also owned as well as repaired and modified many other preamps that have employed that family of tubes. There are some great ones, some good ones and a lot of mediocre tubes in that family. Many of the nos ecc88 family of tubes have a tendency to be somewhat microphonic and can also be noisey as well. The crop of currently manufactured tubes..... while most are quiet and void of microphonics,in my honest opinion; none are fit for use in any high resolution phono circuit and to my ears "just won't make music". The pre 1970's tubes from amperex, siemens,telefunken,mullard,valvo etc are light years better than post mid 70's and 80's examples,particulary the siemens made tubes. Further more:There are a ton of re-labelled examples floating around and have been for years.In my experience, the only modern tube of any consequence is the military version of the Soviet 6n23n or 6n23ev,infact... these are the quietest tubes in the family with the tightest triode sections as well.The post 1980 phillips ecg versions are hideous sounding. The 60's version white labell Holland made Amperex [d getter versions] are terrific as well as the US amperex versions. The pre-70's Siemens e88cc's were my favs in the Sp-10 and the klimo and preferred over the Telelies and the mullards. Both versions of the legendary CCA's from either siemens or telefunken are as good as it gets in this tube family however the late 70's examples are nowhere close sonically to the earlier examples. The early Valvos [pre 70's again] red labells are great as well. One may also use the e188cc's or 7308's as subs and all of them will handle a higher voltage and are geniune 10,000 hour tubes. JPMS, Thanks for your perspective on the px-4/300b supratek options. The dilema for me is, which one to sell if I decide to go with the Grange. I am leaning more toward selling the Syrah as my cortese is considerably better sounding and far more flexible in my system. I much preferr the sound of the nos round plate 6j5's over any of the 6sn7's. There are also many more single triode substitutes for the 6j5 .... like the many vintages of the 6p5's, 6c5's,6ad5's,6ae5's,and the fabulous 7193. Due to no real commercial demand for single triode octal tubes [yet anyway]all these tubes are dirt cheap, very plentiful, and many sound better than the dual triode 6sn7. To be candid here: My apprehension stems from having my doubts about whether the px4/300b version will outperform my cortese with the above mentioned nos tubes. |
Amandarae, All of the tubes seemed to be working. I have since pulled it out of the system and put another preamp in. I will wait a couple of weeks and try and tackle the problem. Thanks for the input. I will try plugging it into the wall at that time to see what happens |
HELP!
Don't have time to read the whole thread.
Bought a Syrah which I love but the phono tubes (whichever they mey be) are way too noisy for me.
Have it set on lowest gain and still getting storms of rubbish thru the phono at conservative volume.
It's kitted out with all sorts of NOS tubes and my limited experience of tubes lead to me to think I'll have to buy at least three pairs before I get a 'quiet' pair - which though?
Thanks in advance,
Simon |
I received my new Cabernet one month ago. Mine is also the PX4/300B version. So far I can tell that the sound seems to be a little cleaner with the PX4 (TJ) then with the Western Electric 300B but I´ll check it again in one more month or so.
Ecclectique, there is a difference with the Syrah. Of course it can´t be a huge difference but big enough to pay the $5000 tag in my opinion. I don´t know about the phono section, just about the line. The sound compared with the Syrah is more clear, clean or whatever you want to define it in that direction. More presence but nacing aggressive.
I have my Syrah with all those NOS tubes that at the end seems to me the best ones: WE 350B, Tung Sol 6SN7 round plates, Mullard or Philips metal base GZ34. Even with all these expensive tubes in the Syrah the Cabernet has more emotion, more music just with the stock ones. Sorry but I can´t express myself better.
After the first week I tried the Cab with all those nos tubes and I don´t know why but the sound, so far, is better with the stock ones. Again I´ll try the nos tubes in the Cab in one more month.
David, if you can afford it I would keep the Syrah. Use it for a second system, you´ll never get something like that for that price. Besides you can use part of the same tubes (350B, 6SN7, and GZ34) in both preamps.
But in my humble opinion the Cab is worthwhile if you want to get the most of your system. I never sell neather of them.
A final recommendation for the ones that are looking for an exellent cd player, take a look to the Cary CD 303/300, it makes a terrific combination with any of the Supratek preamps.
Salud, Juan. |
Kclone,
Did you check the rectifier(5AR4) tube yet? Maybe it is bad and the ripple coming from the output are huge and cannot be filtered by the regulators anymore.
Or have you tried connecting it to the wall outlet and not through the PS audio?
In my experienced, instantaneous or premature power shutdown are the worst enemy of rectifier tubes.
Just my opinion of course!
Abe |
Congratulations Sandro! Just fasten your seatbelt, keep your hands and feet inside the car at all times and enjoy the ride! You are in for a real treat! |
Hi All,
I got "the email", the one that tells you that your waiting is over. I'm feeling a bit excited...
Is there something I should ask now to Mick for my Cortese, also considering that I live in Italy, not so close?
Thanks
Sandro |
Cello,
I will e-mail you about the Moray James cord. Thanks for the response Cello, and BWwhite. |
I have a problem. My 5 year old kicked a soccerball that hit the power/on off button on my PS Audio 300 which I had the Chardonney plugged into. When I turned it back on, the tube preamp produce this load hum through one of the speakers. I have not figured out how to get rid of it. I can turn the dial on the back of the unit to minimize it, but it is still there. Before this happened, it was dead quiet. Any insight would be apprecieated. Thanks |
Hi Tom - got your email. Glad you like the MJ 1.5 - I told you it was good!! Unfortunately, there aren't many of them that I know of. When I first "announced" that cord, only a few people purchased it. You might email Moray James at: morayj1@juno.com and ask him if he can make you one if the wire is still available. I know he sells the MJ PWR2.5's which were okay but not as good as the 1.5 on the Supratek.
Tell Moray you have a Supratek and he'll know exactly what you want - keep in mind, he is always working on new stuff so... maybe there is a 3.5 or something even better to try. |
.
Tom,
.
I have a Morey James PC (not sure if it is a 1.5), but I would be willing to sell it (and I can check to see what the model is). I think it is a 6 ft cord.
.
Rgds,
Larry
. |
If any of you guys know where I can get a Morey James model 1.5 PC please let me know. |
Good morning. Anybody roll the ECC88 tubes in their Grange? If so, what do you like and/or dislike? Source would be appreciated also. Thanks in advance to all respondents.
Bill |
Ecclectique, mine is a Cabernet with PX4/300B option. IMHO, the PX4 tubes sound better to my ears than the 300Bs. The 300Bs give a stronger bass but this is a bit excessive in my small listening room. Both the PX4 and 300B tubes are manufactured by TJ. TJ also came out a PX25/5V version recently that can be a direct replacement for 300B tubes. It has the same sound as their PX4's but cost more. Nontheless, the look of the TJ PX25/5V tubes is pretty nice. |
Hey Gang. Anyone else using the Grange with the px4? I am seriously considering ordering one but I am a little apprehensive as I would have to part with either my syrah or the cortese to raise the funds. Would be nice to hear a little feedback from a supratek user that has upgraded to the Grange. I have a welbourne labs attenuator on order for the Cortese but it's currently in a back order situation. Wouldn't make the move until I have installed it in the cortese but was hoping some users will post in the meantime. Thanks David |
Jazzdude,
Sorry for the delay.
I purchased the Mundorfs from Madisound.
I can't remember if the cap values were on the stock caps or not. The stock caps were two small square caps about the size of a box of matches mounted on their sides. They are wired on one end from another larger, square cap and wired to the tube socket on the other end. They are located in the very front of the preamp.
As I recall Mick gave me the original location and value of the caps. They are 1 uf caps.
Mick could probably give you better info than me :o , but the difference in my Supratek is staggering by just replacing these two caps. |
Ethifi - picture the signal your speakers recieve as a 3-way pie chart composed of source signal, preamp signal, poweramp signal. the higher you are able to turn up the volume on the preamp then the more you hear of the preamp and the less you hear of your source and poweramp (relatively speaking). whether this will sound better or not is a matter of system synergy and listner preference. |
Fiddler - where did you purchase the Mundorf Silver Supremes? Were the cap values clearly indicated on the caps or did you have to get that info from Mick? Thanks. |
Hi Fiddler
You wrote: "I have the gain on the "low" setting on my Chardonnay and I still can't turn the volume up past 9 o'clock."
Please help me understand why it is important to be able to turn the volume past 9 o'clock? My system sounds best with the Chardonnay set to the "high" setting and I hardly play beyond 9 o'clock. |
Hi Fiddler. To employ the 7193 in the chardonnay one would have to drill a hole beside each tube socket to accommodate the wiring to the caps . Probably not so good if you ever wanted to sell it. I run my wiring up through the extra tube socket of my cortese as mine is configured for a pair of single triodes/channel as opposed to the single socket dual triode 6sn7 versions . Another way would be to run the extra wiring down from the bottom of the chassis and up the sides if you want to give it a try.The good thing here is the operating points of this family of single triodes [6j5,6c5,6p5,2c22,7193 etc] are the same as the 6sn7 whereby no modifications are necessary to the circuit of the 6sn7 based suprateks. Perhaps you might want to try a 6j5, 6c5, or the 6p5 first as they don't require the grid caps, the wiring change is relatively very simple and would certainly allow you a lot more flexibilty with your gain. The round plate versions of the 6j5 and 6p5 vacuum tubes as well as the 6c5 meshplates sound better than all of my 6sn7's. Trying a few of them first will certainly allow you to hear the voice of this tube family. As mentioned,the 7193 and the 2c22 need a pair of top caps per tube. These top caps a very difficult to source nowadays and it is imperative that they fit snuggly on the contacts of the tube. Not recommended for those with children or pets. You are more than welcome to email me off line for more imfo. |
Ecclectique:
"I have saved the best for last as rewiring the tube socket is in order here to accomodate the 7193! The 7193 triode is a strange looking octal tube with plate and grid caps on the the top of the glass. These are electrically equivalent to a 6j5 single triode or 1/2 of a 6sn7. They were munufactured by RCA, NU, kenrad and tungsol as far back as the early 1930's.Many were used in old Juke boxes in their day as well as some early 50's tv sets. This tube just stomps on any 6sn7! Simply said.... there is no going back once you hear it. It's like comparing a telefunken ecc803 to a ge 12ax7, or a we350b to a 6L6. Halographic like no other,dead quiet,microphonics are non existant, super liquidity with incredible clarity,a silky sweet top end that floats into your room,the bass energy and drive of the kenrad vt-231 but far crisper and 3 times as tight. I use the cortese in my main system with my very efficient Tannoy Westminster's driven by VAC pa-90 monos employing the genelex kt-77 output tube. With the 6sn7's in the preamp I have very little room for play with the volume control whereby a single 6j5 is perfect for my application. I have unsoldered the other socket whereby I use only 1 6j5/channel."
You really got my attention with this post.
I have the gain on the "low" setting on my Chardonnay and I still can't turn the volume up past 9 o'clock. I would love detailed info on how to convert my Supratek to use the 7193.
I would appreciate any feedback you have time to provide. |
Hi Fiddler. I have an order in for the welbourne labs attenuator,unfortunately they are in a back order position at present. Anyone tried it in a supratek yet? Thanks for the tip on the Mundorfs. |
Ecclectique,
Yes PX4 direct heated triodes plus 76 in place of the standard 6SN7 (huge difference) and a few other minor tweaks. It is the only Grange of its kind in the world.
Audio has been a hobby of mine for 42+ years and words cannot describe the sound but perhaps this does:
(UFB)2
Gotta go and listen |
About a year and a half ago (or so), I emailed Mick and asked him what upgrades he had done to the Chardonnay. He told me that the biggest upgrade he had made was switching to Auricap capacitors. He told me which two caps would make the biggest difference to change in my pre and I switched them for Auricaps. Noticeable improvement.
Well, I have been hankering to try Mundorf Silver Supremes in the Auricap position for at least six months. Well, I finally put them in this week. &%*#@$$! What a difference.
The Mundorfs simply blew the Auricaps away. There was a nice improvement when I put the Auricaps in, but to say there is an improvement with the Mundorfs is an understatement. These caps sound like a component upgrade!
The 3D palpability is greatly increased, great clarity overall, turned my subwoofer down due to increase in bass resolution, considerably deeper soundstage and greater separation of instruments. One of the best changes I have ever made.
Some time ago, I bypassed the selector switch and I am now going straight from the CD input to a DACT (highly recommended). The DACT and the straight input made a big difference in clarity. The Mundorfs made a bigger difference everywhere! The music just flows now.
I highly recommend taking 30 minutes to change a couple of caps if you are so inclined. My Chardonnay doesn't even sound like the same pre. |
Hello WcMustang, Congrats on your new acquisition. Tricked up? Can you elaborate. Did you order it with the px4 directly heated triode? I too am considering buying one myself. I have never heard the tube in a preamp stage however I have played with the a few px25 triodes over the years. These directly heated triodes, when used in an output stage of an amplifier have an incredible purity to them,amazing resolution of very fine micro detail and nuance that most output tubes only hint at. Hope you will post your thoughts after break in.... really looking forward to it! |
Hi Slowhand. No.......without a rectifier, the preamp would not power up. No rectifier = no power. The rectifiers's duty is to convert the AC voltage[ 115-120 volts alternating current] from the wall plug to 6 volts DC [direct current] for operating the other tubes in the preamp. The regulator tubes[6L6,6f6 etc] are used to smooth the residual ripple in the dc voltage "after" the rectifier has converted the ac to dc. If you want to use the preamp with the 5y3 for rectification duty, there is a proceedure you can use to prevent or minimilize any cathode stripping of the other tubes. It's a bit of an inconvenience but it can be done. Power up the preamp for at least 5 minutes with the stock rectifier,this allows the other tubes to slowly turn on and stabalize in the circuit.Then turn off the preamp and quickly insert the 5y3 in place of the gz34 and turn it back on "immediately". "NOTE" Please understand that I am "not" recommending substitution of the stock rectifier with the 5y3 or any other directly heated rectifier for that matter! Warming the cathodes or heaters of the 6sn7's and the regulation tubes with the recommended rectifiers will minimilize the cathode stripping of those tubes. Cathode stripping is caused by the tubes being subjected to a blast of full voltage before they have had a chance to warm up and stabilize themselves in the circuit. Man...O... man.... Mick would surely be rolling his eyes if he reads this post! |
Just received my tricked up Grange last week. Order was placed in late November. Be patient; it is well worth the wait. |
That's a "bummer" guys. I really love the sound of this combo of tubes. David, when you talk about "quickly" subbing in the 5y3, do you leave the preamp on and pull out the GZ34 and put in the 5y3? Can you clarify that for me, and does it harm the preamp or tubes? I thought I heard somewhere that the Supratek can be ran without a tube in the rectifier position, although it is not recommended. Thanks for bringing this to my attention Jazzdude. |
Slowhand... Pay attention to Jazzdude's post here! Good catch Jazzdude. I wouldn't worry about damaging the capacitors, however as Jazzdude correctly pointed out....you must leave your preamp powered up or you will certainly experience a premature tube life of both the regulators and the 6sn7's. I do concurr with your observations of it's sound though, exactly the reason why I use the Bendex 6106 as my rectifier of choice in both the syrah and the cortese. The bendex 6106 specs out closer to the 5y3 electrically than any of the recommended "indirectly" heated rectifiers, It was developed exclusively for the US military to be used as a direct sub for the 5y3.Interesting though: Before I discovered the 6106, I was so very impressed with the sound of the 5y3, I would power up the syrah for about 1/2 an hour with the mullard gz34 in place and then "quicky" sub in the 5y3 to prevent the cathode stripping Jazzdude is alluding to. |
