Preamp Deal of the Century

Hi Baranyi - I am no longer using a Supratek - I had the Aesthetix IO Sig before the Supratek. I've tried many preamps lately and to be honest, you've got to spend a lot of money to do better. You guys should be very happy with these & feel no need to change.

That said, I do have gripes about the Supratek's and if those could be fixed, the units would be truly world class. I presume some of the mods that have been written about lately would resolve some of those gripes.

Curriemt - Microphonics are relative. If you have microphonic tubes there is no helping the situation other than to replace the tubes. I'd suspect that was the problem with your Cortese. The Cortese is solid.

But...

Because of it's point to point, solid core wiring and relatively thin chassis, I could see how the Cortese might be considered more microphonic because those elements can exacerbate microphonic tubes when compared to something with a PC board like your Janus - or others.

Without getting too in-depth - I might say, the Janus, Rhea and Calypso have their own set of issues to keep owners and dealers quite busy. So much so that my dealer stopped carrying them.

Bwhite,
Nice to talk to you as well. Are you still using a Supratek preamp? I thought that you bought the Aesthetix separates. Hope all is well in your new home (NC?) Bob

Interesting comment regarding the microphony of the Cortese. My Cortese was, by far, the most microphonic preamp I have ever owned. I now own an Aesthetix Janus, which is an all around better preamp.

Baranyi - nice to hear from you. I hope all is well. In my opinion, there IS an improvement when going up the Supratek line however it is not as significant as I had expected. The Supratek products I've used tend to have a very similar family sound and therefore the gains are mostly in refinement.

In my experience, the Cortese (for example) is ABSOLUTELY NOT microphonic, has a lower noise floor and a certain precision which the Syrah lacked. I think the bass was slightly better and the phono somewhat quieter.

Stevem1960 - while I appreciate your comments about the importance of speakers, I must comment that most people on this site (& Supratek owners in general) already have great speakers and are sophisticated enough to understand their importance.

While there is some merit to your suggestion, please note that simply dropping in a new (Stevem1960 approved) pair of speakers will not "solve" anything. In MY humble opinion, adding new speakers (or any new/different component for that matter) to a system will only reinforce the need for additional tuning.

There are many factors which come into play when building a system. Trying to create a synergy between components, cables, speakers, room and living situation (limited space-too much space, etc.) can be difficult.

This is why tube rolling is a very effective means of obtaining a more desirable sonic signature. It is much easier to buy & audition various tubes than it is to do the same with speakers.

Of course, cables make a significant change too... but even the most rare & expensive tubes are bargain priced compared to some of the cable offerings.

I am wondering how much better the preamps get when moving up the Supratek line. I have enjoyed the Chenin for almost a year (with Apogee Scintillas Steven1960) but I wonder how much better the higher priced versions are in performance. The Chenin is the best preamp that I have ever owned and works great with the H2O digital amps that I use. I read a while ago that Bwhite didn't think the Cortese was that much of a difference from his Syrah. How about jumping to the Cabernet line stage? I would like to hear the reaction of those who have climbed the Supratek ladder.

Stevem1960,
I remember having in the past small ProAc speaker and remember having incredibly alive sound. What ProAc speaker did you have and what power amp was used ?
I have Chenin+Clayton M100.

Hi Guys,

Just to change tack on the tube rolling subject which is discussed ad-infinitum on this forum, I'm curious to know what speakers you guys use with your Supratek preamps and amps??

You may recall that I live in Western Australia and have known Mick Maloney of Supratek, since its inception some ten years ago. And, I have heard or owned all the Supratek models from Syrah-to-Cortese-to-Cabernet-to-the Merlot monobloc amps.

You don't know how good Mick's preamps and amps are until you put them through their paces on some hi-rez speakers! I'm talking about things like Quad Electrostatics; Martin Logan's; Proacs; Yamaha NS1000's (with the highly detailed beryllium drivers); the ER Audio ESL-3 (superfast 3.4 micron thin-filmed electrostats see: www.eraudio.com.au ); Jamo Concert 8's with Seas Excel magnesium drivers and silver voice coils; various Accuton ceramic/Raven ribbon speaker arrays; Apogee ribbons and also the Edgar Horns. All of which - I have owned and tried at some stage in my audio quest, with the Supratek products.

When you get speakers of the type mentioned above, you realize how good the Supratek products really are! The fine detail and nuance; inflection and expression of music presented by Mick's creations don't really show through until you get a really GOOD SPEAKER. So my tip to you guys is stop mucking around with tube rolling, be assured you have one of the best preamps on the planet with Supratek - and look to improve other parts of your system (speakers being the most critical component and a good start).

All in my humble opinion of course...

Regards,

Steve M.

>>there are some well established brands<<

With well established failure and/or repair records. LOL

OK Fiddler good idea. BTW Mr.Mustang there are some well established brands.

Fiddler has a great idea Mechans. Maybe you could title it "Preamp Deal of the Week". This will apply to both money spent and product longevity.

Mechans,

Feel free to open a NEW thread on Chinese preamps!

I suspect most involved in this thread are involved because of their ownership of or specific interest in Suprateks. Nuff said.

Why hasn't anybody recently discussed anything other than the Supratek. I know it's a Darned good pre-amp. I was blown away by Slipknot's when it the first time, I could not believe how good it was. Especially for the money he paid but is it the deal of the century? You mean there is nothing less expensive. I for one don't want to spend over $3,000 nor do I wish to wait until it gives birth after 9 months. Come on guys and Women to be politically correct. Lets hear some new chat on cheap preamps. Are you saying they have all possible giant killers been discussed ad nauseum? What about some of the inexpensive Chinese stuff is there really nothing out there?

Doc,
the Lucinda Williams is brilliant.
I would not put a tube in my Syrah or anything else without a coating of Silclear and if I were you, I would just enjoy the pre as is.
I have a box of nos tubes that work and a much bigger box of their partners that are noisy or dead.All of which cost a fortune.
I've had some real scares with tubes letting go and I've settled for a cheapo pair of Valve Arts that sound fine and don't try to kill my system.
Take Micks advice, leave well alone and just enjoy your music !!!
Simon

Thanks Slowhand. The music is always first. Now playing Van Morrison "Enlightenment" I will definitely check out the Lucinda Williams LP. Thanks for the tip.

Doc

Docsavage,

Don't get so caught up in tube swapping that you lose track of the music. After the Cortese is broken in, try some of the NOS tubes that the guys have mentioned. Just make sure you enjoy the music above all else. I am playing Lucinda Williams double LP "World Without Tears". KILLER MUSIC!

Thanks Mustang.
I am surprised about your use of contact enhancer. I thought the conventional wisdom on that was not to use anything on tube pins. I use the SST product on connections with some success.
I appreciate the 6F6 tube info. I do not fully understand tube swapping. Ex. 6F6 for 5881. Nomenclature is so different. Foremost, DO NO DAMAGE.
Yes, I am a bit ambitious. I caught this disease about 40 years ago with my first purchase at the old "Lafayette
Electronics" store. I have never found a cure. I guess this gives up my age. I wish my ears were as good today.
I am possibly seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I am sure I will always try out a new tube or set on IC's but my equipment purchases are nearly at the end. (I hope)
At least until the "next great thing" comes out.
The Cortese is so good that I find it hard to believe that it can get better with NOS tubes. I must hear for myself and in that light I may as well go for the best tubes I can find up front. I don't want to make tube swapping a full time job.
Doc

Doc, You are quite ambitious I must say. The Philips is a great tube. I replaced the four 5881 regulator tubes that came with my Grange. I am currently using a matched quad of 1948 Westinghouse 6F6 and it sounds wonderful. FWIW I recommend using Walker SST or Xtreme contact enhancer.

Down the road, think about installing the Mundorf coupling capacitors. Expensive but they really kick some butt. I also replaced the factory installed Auricaps with a pair of V-Cap teflon film caps and my Grange is singing sweet.

Fiddler,

I agree with you completely on your findings of the EH6sn7's. I bought mine used and I believe they are broken in. I think they sound fantastic. Plenty of body and weight to the music with great dynamics. On CD's I feel they are just as good as my TS rounds, on phono the TS may be a hair better, but not enough to worry about. I have had my EH6sn7's in my Syrah ever since I got them and fell I am missing nothing at not having my NOS tubes in. Doc, you have my mouth watering when you describe the sound of your Cortese. These last few weeks of waiting will be the worst.

Ecclectique and Mustang
Hi, I located the 1957 Philips Mini Watt metal base GZ34. I am looking forward to giving that a try. Expensive but it seems it may be well worth it. Also located a set of 6SN7
Tung-sol round plates. This should be fun. I researched this topic for quite a long time. They appear to be great suggestions.
Have you guys tried out any 7308's in the phono stage?
I was also advised that the 6F6 tube works well in the regulator position? Mick built my Cortese with 4 regulator tubes so it gets a bit more difficult.
Ecclectique, I will revisit the hum issue I raised. I hope I did not make too much of it. It is not there under most db levels. It may in fact be more of a tube rush noise but only at very high levels. I do run an all tube system.
Atma-sphere amps. I will check this out. Overall I think this is a very quite pre.
Thanks for all the great info.

Hello gang. Fiddler... thanks for the heads up, as I doubt I put anymore than 20 hours of seat time with the EH6sn7's in the syrah.I will certainly run them in again as I do like their tonal balance. DOC... You mentioned a little hum at very high gain in the phono stage. Hum, as opposed to tube rush or tube noise is generally a grounding issue somewhere between the cartridge/arm and cable interface to the phono stage. A 60hz buzz that piggybacks the signal from your cartridge and sometimes can be a pain in the butt to get rid of.

Doc, the Cca not only lowers the noise level, which I really didn't feel necessary either, but to expand the dynamics and increase the detail in the phono section. As Ecclectique articulates, there are many less expensive 6922 substitutes that will kick your phono stage up a couple levels at an affordable cost.

Ecclectique,
At the moment I am using a VDH Black beauty Special X.
I am awaiting a new TT and Schroeder arm and considering an ZYX Universe. I just have to make sure it is a definite upgrade worth the money. Expensive! I hope the new set up will be with me for a very long time so it may make sense to make this final cart. purchase

Ecclectique,

How long did you leave the EH6SN7s in? I thought they were berry, berry good right out of the box, but they really bloomed after a month.

I have numerous NOS 6SN7s: Tung-Sol Round Plates, 52 Syls, etc. among others and I prefer the EHs to all of them. They really came into their own after a hundred hours or so (I'm just guessing here, but they did take quite some time to really become outstanding.)

I know you are far more experienced than I am when it comes to tubes, but I thought I would just offer you my experience.

Hey Doc. What cartridge are you using?

Thanks all, looks like some tube rolling is in order soon. Mustang, I find the phono stage to be very quite. I do at times play the tunes a bit on the loud side but only at severe levels do I hear a bit of hum between cuts. Actually, several other phono stages I have used had much more noise. I know that the general consensus on this forum is that the gain levels should be set to max output. I have been puzzled by this. I don't believe Mick would include so much control if he thought it would not be beneficial given individual system requirements. I find that backing off the rear panel setting a bit and placing the top switches to low gain sounds much better in my system. I will be doing much more experimenting with these features. I must say that "out of the box" this pre blew me away. Even after reading many posts here, I was not prepared for such a dramatic change. By the way I do not post very often. I did want to get the thread going because I have learned so much here on this subject. I know the tendency is to tout ones own equipment but in this case it really is that good.

Hi Gang. Doc... congrats on the new cortese... it truly is stupid good huh. I can only re-iterate to what mcmustang is alluding too, as the benefits are immediate upon first listen. Start with a good nos rectifier first.The early philips metal based GZ34 that mcmustang is using is about as good as it gets if you can locate one. They can be a little pricey but will also last longer than you or your equipment, pug it in and forget about it! Actually... Any of the vintage mullard gz34's are light years better than the stock rectifier thats supplied with your preamp and all of them are built like tanks and will last just about forever. For those with the 6922/6dj8/ecc88 tube family in the phono stage, there are many different flavours for voicing with but most of the 60's vintage tubes of that family will stomp on the stock tubes mick supplies as long as they are quiet and non-microphonic. I too,think the pre-70's siemens cca is the best of the family, although the white labell amperex e88cc's [d getter versions] present a musically compelling alternative. Line stage??? For those with suprateks employing the 6sn7 dual triode in the line stage.... many flavours here as well. I did try the eh6sn7 in my syrah and was pleasantly suprised, I found it to be very quiet and a tonally well balanced tube overall, but the tung-sol round and kenrad black are certainly in another league altogether....far more organic, with superior dynamic contrast,depth of stage,and the ability to resolve that fine micro detail and nuance that seems missing in action with the EH. Both the tung-sol round and the kenrad black possess a certain decay to percussive notes that's akin to a real instrument in the room. As usual... your mileage may vary. Enjoy!

Docsavage,

Glad to hear you love the new Cortese. Mick sent me an e-mail telling me that mine is almost done. I can't wait to get it. To be honest, I don't see how it can sound better than my Syrah! Man, do I love that preamp. The sound I am getting from my system right now is just amazing. I know the Cortese will be even better. Ever since I got my new ZYX Yatra cartridge (thanks Lugnut), I have barely turned on my Sony SCD-1. Mick really does magic with his phono stages. Docsavage, do you find the phono stage to be quiet? Because Micks preamps are such high gain, noise in the phono stage has been a problem for some people (I am not one of them). Mick told me that the newest Cortese is much quieter in the phono stage. Just wondered what your thoughts are. I am using the Electro Harmonix 6sn7's that Mick likes so well in my Syrah. A guy sold me a pair for $10 and I think they sound fantastic. Tung Sol rounds are better, but when you take into account the price difference, I'll take the EH6sn7's.

The biggest bangs for the buck regarding tube rolling, IMO, are the rectifier and phono tubes. I substituted a 1957 Philips Mini Watt metal base GZ34 for the factory 5AR4 and a pair of Siemens Cca for the factory 6922 in my Grange. This was a huge upgrade even though Mick is very careful in selecting the tubes he supplies.
If you really want to get adventurous, upgrade the coupling capacitors. This substantially increases dynamics and allows the preamp to dig deeper into your source material.

This thread appears to be dying out. Well, I will add my 2 cents to keep it going. Received my new Cortese about 2 months ago and it really is what most posts on this thread say. The phono stage is amazing. I have not started tube rolling yet but look forward to trying some NOS tubes.
Any agreement by Supratek owners as to tube changes that seem to provide even better sound? Just too many threads to do a search.
Thanks in advance.

From the pics it looks like two KT-88s per channel, for a total of four. I own a Music Reference RM-200, which generates 100+ Watts also using two KT-88's per channel.

thanks, wc. i had emailed mick a while back and asked about the burgundy amps. he informed me that he had discontinued them and was working on a 100 watt kt88 amp. i'm pretty sure the current kt88 on his site isn't capable of 100 watts from just two kt88 though. i will definitely be intrested in the developments of this new amp as i'd love to have a 100+ watt supratek amp to mate with my chardonnay.

The amplifier is still in development. Power output has not yet been determined. Mick says he loves the sound of the amp as it is now but the power may not be sufficient for some of the more difficult speaker loads. It's going to be at least a few more months before the final design is set.

Kgturner,

This is the first I have heard about the KT-88 amp. When Mick answers your questions, please share the info with the rest of us. I do know that Mick was talking about building a more affordable amp that could mate with the Chenin.

You'll have it in 4-6 months

Yet, by all accounts it'll be worth the wait, even if
you do have to load the toast from down under.

>>I think you get a free toaster<<
You'll have it in 4-6 months.
:-)

Nothing to add. Just wanted to shoot for post 2000 on this thread. Do I get a prize?

The new amps look cool as all his stuff does. What does the chrome tower on the KT88 cover or is it cosmetic??

i was browsing the supratek site and noticed a new supratek monoblock amps. they're just called the supratek kt88. i guess mick hasn't sobered up from all the wine yet :) i shot him an email with a few questions. anybody happen to know anything about the new amps? looks like it uses 2 kt88's, 2 6sn7's, and 1 5ar4.

Thanks Wc65mustang,

I am sorry. I did not see your post letting me know your shipping cost. Thanks also for the tip about giving Mick my social security number to avoid custom delays

I am really excited about getting the Cortese. It has been a long wait! But I know it will be worth it. This brings back memories of recieving my Syrah.

You're welcome Tom.
:-)

Thanks Larry.

.
Tom,
.
I suggest that you get Mick to insure the shipment. It seems to be his practice not to insure. I had to ask him to insure.
.
My advice is that under no circumstances should you let him ship without insurance, regardless of what he says.
.
Rgds,
Larry
.

Tom I think my Grange was $325 give or take a few dollars for shipping, insurance and customs. Make sure you give Mick (in case he forgets to ask but that's doubtful) your social security number. It goes through customs much faster with it.
When do you expect delivery?

If there is anyone out there in the USA that has bought a Cortese recently, can you tell me how much the shipping and customs fees were?

Thanks,

Tom

Congrats Slowhand. Talk to you in April 2006.
:-)

I too have been doing a lot of praying for the many people affected by Hurricane Katrina.

I just got word that Mick is finally started working on my Cortese!!!

For all of you, all friends in this forum, who now are in hard moments because of the hurricane Katrina, I want to let you know that I share your pain. Juan (Madrid, Spain)