Re: Supratek KT88 power amp. I have not yet heard this amp yet Slowhand but would think it is very good. Mick seems to speak of it in terms of having the virtues of the his other more expensive power amps - which is saying a lot!
As to pricing for the KT88 amps you will have to wait and see, but about $3000 seems right from what he has said to me. I can't imagine it will be anywhere near the cost of Burgandys, those amps were contained in four chassis's, complex to build and with big expensive Plitron transformers from Canada which explains their price tag.
To those who have waited long for their preamps, we have a saying in Australia (or it could be universal?) 'the squeaky wheel gets oiled', so start squeaking. I have to agree with Slowhand though, the wait is worth it as Supratek preamps sound like no other.
Regards,
Steve. |
Hello Larry,
I waited almost 1 year to get my Cortese! Was it worth the wait? Absolutely! I know it seems to take forever, but the music coming from my Cortese is pure pleasure. Once you hear your pre for the first time you forget about that long wait. Hang in there. I think part of the long wait is because Mick is coonstantly experimenting with ways to improve the sound of his products and he is developing new products as he builds preamps for people. |
My order for a Cabernet has become a 101/2 month wait. I am torn at this point to take Micks offer of refunding my deposit, (70%, dumb on my part) and look elswhere, or should I stick it out, although on principal, I am upset with the lack of info coming from Australia along with my dissapointment with endless delays, I ultimatley want to get the best preamp for my system. Other alternatives at this point are a Mac 2200 and a VAC sig MKI. What would the loyal following of the Supratek sound, which influnenced my decision to order a Supratek, do in my case? |
I would not count on the $3000 price. I hope he can come in near that price, but I remember when he was in the planning stages of the Burgandy amps. Mick was hoping for about $3500 and they ended up being $9000!! I spoke with Mick about building an amp in the price range of the Syrah/Chenin. He said he was working on one. I hope this is it. If he can keep the price down as he did with the Syrah/Chenin, then Mick is going to be a very busy man! |
slowhand:
i too am anxiously awaiting more info on this amp. your comment from last week about a $3000 price point had me all giddy inside. last time i emailed mick, he said nothing was definite yet as he was still testing longevity. i'll have to wait with baited breath and enjoy my cary's for now. |
Hello Steven1960,
I know you live near Mick. What can you tell us about the KT-88 amp that is on Mick's website? Has he built one yet? I would love to own a Supratek amp to go with my Cortese, but the Merlot does not have enough power for my system. |
Or... Is erasing an option at this forum? |
Fiddler......my mistake. I honestly thought this was an open preamp discussion. I will erase, and save for a system review. Thank you. |
Muralman,
I think everyone here appreciates your opening salvo about the Fire preamp. No problem.
However, it would probably more appropriate to start a new thread specifically addressing the Fire preamp rather than hijacking the Supratek thread. You know the old saying, "there is a time and a place..." |
No problem, SteveM. To get back to on subject. I read through most of this novel sized topic, and was warmly amazed. Most of the talk has been about seasoning Supratek preamps. Reading of rare tube swaps does have my mouth watering. Especially Asa's lectures on proper tube savoring. Alas, the truth is, I don't miss the anxiety I felt over tube rolling.
To be honest, the Fire preamp, as is, will be of no interest to Phono lovers. I bet there is a phono stage Fire in the offing. I hope so.
My non oversampling tubed DAC is great at bringing out faint place cues, and visually rounding out the players/singers. I have been wanting a preamp that lives up to my DAC's liveliness.
The fire excels in nuance preservation. Carrying the signal with gloved hands. players are properly portrayed. There is really a clear glass on the music scene. None of this detail is harsh. Everything presented sounds natural.
The pre, being solid state, has excellent bass handling. Important to drum gear reproduction, attack is forceful. The middle range, where most voice resides, is without noticeable artifact. Voices have that just right weight, timbre, and cohesiveness, that makes HiFi sound believable.
The place where the Fire excels is in emphasis of the leading edge. I am not talking about dynamics, or micro dynamics. The Fire is great at both, as are other great preamps. I am talking about the muscular jump of the player's hand to the instrument. I am made aware of the percussion quality of percussion instruments, like pianos, and guitars, as never before. It appears with every strum, hit, and pic. I feel and hear heightened immediacy.
The quality extends to strings too. I can see the bowing, the feeling of muscles, and sinew pulling and pushing. This feeling is bolstered by just the right rosin on the bow. There is no thin detailing here.
Listening to orchestra, every instrument appears to scale, including even the harp. I don't just hear the first violins, I hear the first violin and each seat. Their cohesiveness is not the amalgam that most systems pass orchestral passages as, but as the group of exquisitely trained musicians they are.
Well, I see this is turning into a full system review. I apologize for my long windiness. I just don't know how else to relate the amazing improvement all have witnessed to my system with the advent of the Henry's Fire preamp.
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I would like to get some better phono tubes for my Cortese. I am using Phillips 6922 that came with my pre when I bought it used.
The tubes I'm using now:
Zenith (sylvania) 6F6G's
Phillips metal GZ34
Rca Gray 6SN7
I have a nice pair of Tungsol round plates with mica tops that I bought a year ago. They test as new and when I put them in my Cortese the sound is a little dull with lean bass .I think it is because of my phono tubes.I have a rebuilt Lenco L75 and it sounds good , a little better then my cd player and again I think it is because of the Phono tubes.
I hate seeing the Tungsol's sitting on the shelf. So I want to get better phono tubes.
The really got nos tubes are $300-400. Do I have to spend this much ?
I was hoping for a recommendation for phono tubes that are 85-90% as good for less money .
Since adding the Lenco to my system I listen to 95% vinyl.I am very content with my Cortese.
I am also interested in getting a tube tester. I don't want to purchase it from ebay so if anyone has one that has instructions and manuals I am interested in it.
Thanks
Abill |
No worries fellas ...don't get so 'Fired' up about it, otherwise we'll have to pour some H20 on it!
Such are the vaguaries of internet communications that my initial post was not meant to offend the digiamp camp. Afterall, I have eleven of them in my house at the moment so I do quite like them ...just not as much as valves.
Peace ...
Steve. |
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I dont think Muralmans mention of H2o Fire PREAMP,matched with H2O Sigs is out of place at all!!! |
Excuse me, Stevem1960, my post is about the Fire preamp. I can only relate it to my experience. The H2O is mentioned only to provide a back drop. In going back to previous posts, it seems some people have already dropped the name of my amp on this crowd. Just above someone mentions the Berning. Why so sensitive? |
A discussion on digital amps is a little out of place here Vince ...
I own both Bel Canto and ICE module 100w & 500w amps and all are trounced by the Supratek Merlot tube monoblocs that I also have. There is something harmonically and texturally rich in directly heated Single Ended Triode (S.E.T) valve amps that is missing in all digital amps I've heard.
However, all of this is in the context of efficient speakers and I'm sure the H2O amp is very good on your power hungry Apogee Scintillas...
Regards,
Steve. |
Henry Ho's "Fire" preamp. Eeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
Matched with his H2O Sigs, Oh, I don;t know, I have run out of superlatives. |
On Supratek build quality ...depending on which angle you are looking from the Supratek products have fantastic build quality!
If you are after a mass produced product with neat internals; biscuit thin circuit boards; thin copper traces side by side on a PCB to carry the signal(all interfering with each other with their eddy curents); lots of useless control circuitry that gets in the way of the signal; internal parts chosen with a budget in mind - then go and get yourself any mass market Japanese or USA amp and preamp and be happy with it.
If on the other hand you want something which avoids 'sameness' and is meticulously 'handcrafted'; carries the signal on silver coated copper and teflon wires; has NO circuit boards to sully the signal; contains hand picked components chosen for their sonic value; has unique triode circuitry; and an exterior that looks like a work of art - then choose Supratek.
Its to be expected that if an average non-audiophile technician opens up a Supratek and sees the mass of silver wires going everywhere and big bulky (high quality) capacitors, he's going to think it looks hand built, which it unashamedly is! This type of tech wouldn't appreciate the sonic virtues of hardwiring, nor understand how difficult it is to twist each wire to its connection, as opposed to simply spot soldering on a circuit board.
So you see, the issue of build quality is all a matter of perspective. The external beauty of Supratek preamps is reflected on the inside also. The internal circuitry may look a bit unusual, but it is done that way for sonic merits and should be seen as a positive thing, something that is unique and handcrafted ...at least that's the way I see it and all IMHO.
Regards,
Steve M.
PS: I am currently using a Supratek Grange which has selectable 300B, 45 or PX4 output tubes and a highly developed phono stage. I haven't heard everything out there, but I can't imagine it gets much better than this ... |
Whoopadeedoo, the Grange and Cabernet are prepared with a switch to change between PX4 or 300B, like my Cab, other can use PX4 or 45. |
mustang, has Mick confirmed it is okay to use such substitutions in your preamp? The PX4 and 45 are significantly different triodes. |
The Mighty Grange... 65Mustang I finally clued in...you really are sick.... |
Thanks Stiltskin for all of the information. I just ordered a pair of Emission Labs 45 Mesh Plates to replace the PX/4 in my Grange. I am speaking with a few owners who strongly prefer the 45 in place of the PX/4. I have also removed the pair of 76 tubes that came with the Grange and replaced them with RCA VT-37 which are very sweet sounding. |
Hi 65Mustang,The use of the 6F6gs as regulators may have never been known if it was not for Ecclectique bringing it to our attention here some time ago.I love them. When I first read about it I phoned Andy of Vintage Tube Services.I requested the best out of the bunch, he rounded some up and tested them and set aside acouple of nice pairs for me.Both Sylvanias,one pair 1930s N.O.S. matched to with in 2m.a. A secound pair from the 1940s ,carbinizied glass N.O.S.,matched with in 1 m.a.This is critical for the regulators to be matched to get the very best performance, be it these or any others you choose that will work in your Supra pre... Now here is an old radio /juke box tube that will have a major sonic impact on your pre,for very little money.I have seen the 6F6Gs and gts at a vintage radio show for 5 to 8 bucks each,all brands, some N.I.B.s.There are loads of them out there.Mustang,I know Im not telling you anything you dont know already,this may benifit someone else reading this.The power supply tube/s and the regulators have a major sonic impact on how your pre is going to perform...Just make damn sure the power supply tube test values check out.I have afew pair of rare and sought after 6SN7s .They all had their turns in my Chenin ,they were all good .I really had to listen carfully ,switching 6sN7s was nothing like the impact of changing the power supply tube and regulators,not even close.I ended up sitting back and enjoying what I was listening to.Even the new production E.H.6SN7s gold pins sound great,give them 50 plus hours burn in,another inexpensive tube.The phono section I have a pair of mirror matched R.C.A. 6c4s and a small fortune of ecc88/6922s ,Telefunken ,seimans and Philips Mini watt .cca,gold pins and S.Q.s ,only afew that are dead silent phono grade pairs.Buyers beware,looking for top N.O.S. phono grade? good luck.The Philips Miniwatt early 1960s gold pin S.Q.s are[out standing ]and a lot less money,very close in performance to the seimans and Telefunkens.I am very selective who I buy alot of tubes from,Andy of V.T.S. and a seller here on the Gon. from Holland. His user name is Dioto. Tom and Andy are with out dought straight shooters in this game,some of my very best 6922s came from Dioto.Anyway I hope this helps someone and good listening to all. |
Does anyone own any of Micks Amps? We all talk about how good the preamps are, but I would like to hear from some people that own a Supratek amp. What are your impressions? Is anyone out there interested in the new KT-88 based amp that Mick is working on? I own a Berning ZH-270 amp that I use with my Cortese, but owning a Supratek amp that would perfectly match my preamp in both looks and sonics sounds pretty cool. |
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Jpms,
The Visseaux 6L6G (as with most 6L6 tubes in the regulator spot) are a lot more full and warm then the WE350B. The Visseaux 6L6GT (the straight bottle version) is not quite as warm as the 6L6G ST/coke bottle version. Having experiented more with the GT and G versions, I prefer the GT version because it sounds more controlled.
IMO, the 350B is an outstanding regulator for vocals. The mids and treble are on par or better then the other suitable 6L6-type tubes. The 350B has terrific spatial seperation and detail. However, I find it lacks full tonality. The bass is wonderfully tight but somewhat deficient in my system.
The Mullard EL37 is somewhere in between the 6L6 and 350B sound, and it is my preferred regulator tube at present time. It simply sounds the most balanced out of the group. |
Whoopadeedoo, in one of your prior posts I read about the Visseaux 6L6G or Mullard EL34 used as regulators. Now I´m using WE350B in my Cab. How you compare the 350B with any of those other tubes?.
My other tubes are Valvo GZ34 metal base, Sylvania 6SN7GT (1952) or Tung Sol 6SN7GT round plates and TJPx4/n or WE300B. Thanks |
Whoopadeedoo, I appreciate your help and please continue posting your opinion in this thread, we need your constructive experience instead of some sterile fights. |
Stiltskin,
Last weekend for grins and giggles, I installed the factory supplied 5AR4 and 5881 regulators for a 6 hour listening session. As I've previously posted the Philips GZ34 and Westinghouse 6F6GT made a tremendous difference but until I tried the stock tubes again, I didn't realize the significance of the change. Have fun. |
Twenty minutes ago I pulled all the tubes out of my pre and threw it down a flight of stairs.I put the tubes back in ,hooked it back up,[it does not work]??? Can someone please help me...Just kidding...What I like most about my Supra pre purchase, is the price I paid . Hence Slowhands title.A great performing preamp that comes with a phono stage as a gift,and what a phono stage.Who here has spent more only to realize later you ended up with less....Mustang,I have not yet installed the metal base Miniwatt yet.Really looking forward to it.I have afew days coming up were I can lay around and listen all I want. |
Thanks Kgturner, this is answer I was looking for when I posted, not a bunch of vitriolic name calling and 'agenda' comments.
It seems logical that the vast majority of pre's would not do well if dropped, in fairness. My experience tells me that most of the UPS/FedEx claim issues are from their dropping and poor handling, not faulty packaging as they would tend to suggest to claimants.
I know that Mick has a great 'ear' and his units are revered--it's just that someone I respect had made a back handed comment about Supratek's 'build' quality--which is why I asked.
Thanks again.
Larry |
jpms, some of the posts in this thread deter me from contributing, but I can help you with your questions:
1) U54 is another designation for GZ37 and CV378. It's not a GZ34, but it's listed as a suitable sub in Mick's owner's manual.
2) All indirectly heated rectifiers have "slow start." Not all indirectly heated rectifiers can be safely sub'ed in your Supratek though. Nothing personal, but I find a lot of the recommended tube substitutions in this thread way too liberal. |
Lrsky:
Build quality seems excellent to me. The unit has a solid feel to it. That said, I'm sure if I dropped it, it wouldn't fair to well. My unit shipped packaged very rigidly in a large Fedex shipping box. You should have no concerns regarding the build quality of Suprateks. |
Today I´ve listened the Cab with the Mundorfs for the first time and I´m quite impressed, not subtle differences but very noticeable ones, bigger soundstage, mostly in the vertical plane, clearer sound and deeper and more tied bass. I guess that after a few hundred hours it will be even better.
Mick told me that in the Syrah the Auricaps are better then the Mundorfs, it looks that the big Mundorfs are better then the Auricaps but on the contrary the little Auricaps are better then the Mundorfs.
A new discovery for me in the 6SN7 field, the Sylvania GT from 1952, great tube, delicate but with lot of information and good bass.
In other prior post I asked if all the indirectly heated tubes have slow start?. Could anyone help, please?. |
Alma, as I said, I will no longer respond to mustang. |
Isn't your question redundant? In addition to the post cited above, on 7/19/03 you posted this:
"but nobody...nobody has had one bad thing to say about Supratek or Mick."
What precisely are you seeking? Validation of your own position or one of a contrarian?
Perhaps you should contact the manufacturer. I can't think of a better place to begin don't you agree?
We should all be very nice to each other. |
The proper response to my question was, "The build quality is......"
No agenda, simply a question.
Someone recently asked me if I had ever seen the build on a Supratek, that's all. I wondered if anyone could comment on it.
I have no doubt that owners of the product, love it, as well they should.
We need to be more gracious to each other, when a simple question is asked.
Larry |
Please stop! This is not the right place for this kind of communications. imho! |
>>But in reality I tire at seeking to communicate with an idiot.<<
You should stop talking to yourself. That's a start. |
I guess I am not good at guttural language having sought to elevate my language to be more articulate to help my students. But in reality I tire at seeking to communicate with an idiot. Good day and have a better life. |
I guess originality isn't one of your strengths. What are they by the way? You seem to be quite a dim bulb. |
Wow, that hurts, but then I recalled who is posting. |
Browbeatings? Does poor baby want a crying towel? |
All I can do is to repeat your statements about me as quite applicable to your actions and postings. It defies imagination that you would complain about anyone other than you and Mustang trying to browbeat others.
Unfortunately, this thread keeps coming up on my threads, so I learned of Judy and Mustangs browbeatings. |
"infamous ways trying to browbeat others to their point of view."
Once again, it defies imagination that you would be the one to complain about "browbeating others".
Some people are simply in denial about THEIR own actions.
And regardless of whether anyone "worships" Supratek or not, Judy was absolutely right about Theaudiotweak. He consistently raves here about equipment he sells and slams equipment he doesn't. No browbeating on Judy's part to point out the truth. |
Just thought that I notice that many who post here are still up to their old infamous ways trying to browbeat others to their point of view.
Fiddler, if the shoe fits wear it. |
Fiddler,
Nice post and let's hope the gang of one stays silent.
As a Supratek owner, I feel that I own a very special and unique component. Supratek owners, albeit few, know how special the products sound. I have espoused their virtues and perhaps, at times, a bit strongly. For that, I plead guilty but at the same time offer no apology. I started in this hobby as a young boy building Eico, Heath, and Dynaco kits. I've owned more components than most people have heard. Again no apology simply a fact. That being said the Supratek Grange is the single finest component I've heard and/or owned. I take exception to anybody calling this "worshipping at the altar" but chalk it up to either ignorance or jealousy. It doesn't matter.
Anyway good to hear from you again. |
"Judy and mustang, this is really the pot calling the kettle black. Do you guys have an altar with the Supratek on it to which you pray?"
That's about the most hypocritical post I have ever read here!
Tbg, they may have an altar with the Supratek on it, but it sure as heck ain't as big as the one you have with the H-Cat on it!
Uh-oh...I just brought up the H-Cat, now the salesshacking will begin again.
Sorry guys...what was I thinking. |
Wow Norm that almost hurts but then again I've considered the source. |
Judy and mustang, this is really the pot calling the kettle black. Do you guys have an altar with the Supratek on it to which you pray? |
