May I suggest a banquet hall?
Just kidding of course! |
hey Amandarae,a banquet hall,,i guess i could rent it out to fund my audio purchases!is anyone using a Supratek preamp and poweramp? |
Has anyone spoke to Mick lately. I e-mailed him last week, but no reply. Maybe he is on holiday. |
I traded e-mails with him during the early part of this week. I asked him about the production time for a Chenin and he answered me fairly quickly. |
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Slowhand,
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Give Mick a quick call (good time is around 8:00 - 10:00 PM EST time). You can get all your answers in a couple of minutes. Just check your LD phone rate to Australia before calling. I just spoke with him about 5 minutes ago.
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I was sending him emails thinking he was getting them and he was wondering why he had not heard from me. Try emailing him at mick@supratek.biz (instead of supra@supratek.biz) or call him - 011 - 61 8 9 757 9786
.
Rgds,
Larry |
Hi Larry,
Mick answered my e-mail last night. I was checking on my Cortese. Mick says it will be a while yet. |
Hi Gang, I changed the stock 6SN7's in my Cabernet yesterday with CV 1988 (6SN7 GTY) tubes. All I can say is WOW ! I have yet to change the Genalux KT 66 to NU 350B even though the 350B's are lying next to the preamp. Maybe I am too patient according to my buddy but that is the fun part of it. The 350B's are kinda like forbidden fruit....OK, back to listening to music again!
BTW, the stock TJ PX4 tubes are really really transparent!
Cheers,
Kenji |
Ongkaku - RE: the stock TJ PX4 tubes are really really transparent!
Thats really good news because there are no tube rolling alternatives for that tube.
I am glad that you are pleased. Tell us about your listening experience when you get the chance. I know you'd rather be listening than typing.
FWIW - someone told me that Mick would build the cabernet with the we300b if requested. But I am certain you would have to buy the tubes beforehand and ship them to Mick before he started on the order. In a lot of ways the we300b would be a really good tube to work with. There is a good supply of NOS tubes, and the UX4 socket is easy to get also. Westrex is currently manufacturing the we300b using the old western electric facilities. The we300b is a very highly regarded tube. The only downside is they are expensive. |
So, I sold my Syrah, w/ NOS tubes, and the receiver (a really great guy), w/ Avantguard Duos, Audiomeca Mephisto, custom 300b amp, said that in his system, the Syrah was clearly beaten out by the Audioprism Mantissa. Although he said the Syrah was very open and transparent, he said the soundstage was smaller, and less focused. In fact, he said his BAT 50Se also beat the Syrah, with the Audioprism beating them all.
How's that for reality check!! |
Wow, Dennis_the_menace, he already has your Syrah in his system? Did you fly it over to Canada for him? Hahah. I wonder if he allowed for adequate break in and synergizing?
But indeed, it is helpful to hear other perspectives. |
Hey Dean... we used FedEx Intl Economy Air.. took about 2 days, but man it was pricey. Worth it though, I'd rather have something arrive safe, and be trackable, then to have it get lost in customs. The unit was mine, so it was completely broken in, and in terms of synergizing, maybe it was bad synergy? but I feel that a good preamp should make any system better, no? |
has anyone read the Jan 05 6moons review of the Sauvignon? |
Jazzdude,
I had tried comparing my passive preamp vs.connecting the CD player directly to the poweramp. Both setups were very transparent but the CD direct setup had a slight edge over the passive pre. When the Cabernet was in the chain, I did not feel any loss of details and it was as transparent as the CD direct setup, but the good part was it sounded like a super passive pre with steroid (and lots of PRAT, too).
BTW, I am using APL SACD-1000 as my source.
As far as my listening experince goes, I am listening to MUSIC now. The Cabernet really brings out the emotion of a well recorded CD. Too bad the PX4 could not be replaced but look at the brigther side, you save more money to buy CDs. I did ask Mick to change my power unit to accept 300B's as well. Mick said the 300B's only give you a different sound and not necessary "better". Ask the Man if you would like to know more. All in all I'm happy with the TJPX4 tubes that I bought a backup pair recenlty.
Cheers,
Kenji |
Ongkaku - IMO 'no preamp'/passive preamp is the best reference for determining neutrality and transparency of a component. Your findings are similar to mine. This is the big reason I haven't replaced the volume pot or otherwise modded my supratek. For me and my system I am not convinced that the difference will be worth it. But I am very happy for those who replaced the volume pot and were pleased with the result. |
Jazzdude - My goal is to have a system that is as transparent as possible, wide & deep soundstage and with lots of air. Neutrality is subjective and I'm not going into that. So far my current setup has met these requirements. BTW, I'm glad we have the same findings.
Cheers,
Kenji |
I need some help. As many of you know I've been given a Syrah for an extended loan because of some health issues I'm facing. The preamp that was to become the loaner developed a problem and we have tried to troubleshoot via email with Mick rather than going through the lost time and expense of shipping it back to Australia. He has had us take readings from various locations internal to the preamp and everything tests fine. We've rolled so many expensive tubes that it cannot possibly be a tube issue. It has been in two systems in which it operated perfectly but now is unlistenable.
My friend is so dedicated to me having a Syrah in my system that he bought another one here on Audiogon. It has the same issues. Here's the best description I can give you. Keep in mind that with my system I have no other source but analog.
When the preamp is turned on and you first play it after about five minutes of warm up it sounds okay but like it needs a little more time to warm up. Very listenable but not stellar. After about ten minutes the sound improves and is very enjoyable (but not nearly what I remember when I had it in my system a year ago) for until about 45 minutes of operation. Sibilance starts creeping into the recording and becomes so pronounced in quick fashion as to sound like distortion.
I use a high output moving coil which is loaded at 47k. When this sibilanc/distortion comes in and I change the loading to 10 ohm it actually makes the recording sound much better but is still, IMO, unlistenable.
I discoverd this on the second preamp after the Daytona race yesterday. This new (used) preamp had been hooked up to my system for about a day although I hadn't spent any time with it until after the race. So, here I sit, the recipent of some of the most thoughtful kindness I've ever had bestowed on me and feeling horrible. My friend has a boatload of money tied up in two preamps that are at my house in an unusable condition. Anyone have any ideas short of crating them up and sending them back to Mick?
You can do a member search of Vetterone and see his system. At one point the Syrah bettered his DCC2 as a preamp in his system and by a fair margin. My system consists of an LP12/Ittok/BPS source, Ridge Street interconnects, LK100 amps with Aktiv cards, Ridge Street speaker cables and Aktiv Linn Keilidh's. My Audible Illusions Modulus II and Linn Wakonda preamps sound way better than either of these Syrah's which is really depressing. |
Patrick,
Sorry to hear your trouble. I am no expert but would like to offer my thoughts as I have the Chenin. Assuming that you already replaced the tubes in your Syrah, my question is:
1.) Are you using a step up tranny?
If so, please bear in mind that the Syrah can only take 2.5 mV input max. Unless your cart is 0.5 mV and below and your setting is 1:5, then you will have a problem. I know this because I tried with my Shelter 901 at 1:5 setting.
2.)When you said "distortion", does it have a symptom like one channel cutting out as well?
Because this is exactly what happened to mine everytime a tranny is connected to it.
3.) With the tranny, does it get better at say 100 Ohms setting instead of the 47k on the Syrah? Also, if you do not use a tranny, do you hear the same symptoms (disortion)at the 47k, 1K, and so on (depending on your cart)?
If so, you are definitely overloading the phono section.
Hope this helps. |
Amandarae,
No, no step up transformer involved. I emailed Mick about my specific cartridge and he said no problem using it as that's the same cartridge he uses. It does sound like an overloaded phono stage to my ears. No difference between channels either. I'll try to explain in slightly different words what's going on. It sounds okay from initial play until the unit warms up for about 45 minutes. Then the sibilance sets in and gets worse, pretty quickly (5 minutes or so), until the sibilance is so pronounced it effects everything which sounds like distortion to me. |
Hi Patrick. Yes, sounds like a classic case of phono overload to me too. Are both Syrah's using the same tube topology in the phono stage. Some used a combo of the 6j5 and 417a/5842 and others with a 6dj8/6j6. Are there any gain options on them ei: high and low. You mentioned you are using a high output mc... what is the manufacturers loading recommendation? |
Don't think I'm not anxious to answer these questions and get some input but I've got a really busy day going. Company is arriving today for a weeks stay. I don't have the tube layout memorized. Maybe Steve will post about the two preamps and their minor differences. One point to consider is that in the other system with a 901 cartridge it sounded bad too. In both systems and with both cartridges it had, at one time, sounded as wonderful as this thread talks about. Anyway, the factory loading spec for my cartridge is 47K. Again, this cartridge (same one I have) is one that Mick uses. |
Hi, Ecclectique, both amps use the 417a/6GK5 or 6FQ5 tubes. I am pretty sure it is not the phono stage that is causing the problem. The first amp went bad in the line stage functions too. It acted the same for the phono as well as the pre amp functions.
Having two Syrahs with the same problem would make me think it is something we did or another problem with both of our systems. We have spent a lot of time ruling that out.
Remember, the first Syrah sounded wonderful in both systems, and for over a year.
Thanks for your time and responses. |
Hello Vetterone. Thanks for the prompt reply.Due to this abberation being common to both units and through both the phono stage and the line, I think it would probably be the most logical to start with the rectifier and regulators in the power supply. A weak rectifier or mismatched halfs of a full wave rectifier can have a profound effect on both the line and phono and can indeed demonstrate the characteristics that Patrick is alluding to. Can you test your rectifiers and tell me what rectifier you are using [5ar4, 5z4,5u4,5v4?? etc]as well as regulation tubes. Do you have any spare rectifiers around you can substitute? The regulation tubes are not likley the culprit here unless they are very weak or grossly mismatched as they do not have much influence on the tone per sey,but... rather more with spacial cues and air in the soundscape. Are you experiencing any woofer pumping in the phono stage? Try turning up the gain in the phono "Without" cueing the record and observe the reaction of the woofers. Is it a thinness that may be highlighting the upper midrange/treble range? Sorry to ask so many questions here sir, but persevere here and I am sure we can get to the bottom of it in time for Lugnut to entertain his guests. cheers David |
Cabernet users, I am expecting my pre-amp anywhere from now until the summer!, but I'd love to hear some feedback. Stock tubes, rolled tubes, how long a break in period. I am matching with a solid state mac 352 and driving B&W 802's. Balanced output? Mick seems to lean towards unbalanced. My speaker cables are 2 meter Granite audio 10awg copper, while my interconnects are the 577 silver. Playback is a Sony sa-xxxes sacd player. I'm dying for info as I wait. Thanks supratek users. |
I was able for the first time to listen to my new Chenin that I bought from Audiogon last night. I feel that pictures really do not do this preamp justice because in person it is a visual knockout. It also sounds great and I only was able to listen to CD's last night. I can't wait to start spinning some vinyl again! I have a couple of questions that have come up since last night. I think there are about 8 inputs in the rear of the unit and only 4 settings for inputs on the front selector. Can someone inform me how this works? Secondly, what makes a greater difference tube rolling or a new power cable? I have seen many postings dealing with NOS tubes, Is there any consensus about which tubes are the best for these preamps? Which tubes make the greatest difference? Lastly, do most people use the high or low gain setting? Thanks in advance. Bob |
Larryrosen,
Congratulations on your choice. I think you can look forward to a VERY pleasant experience. I say this confidently as my sys. is quite similar to yours in many ways & the Supratek was a perfect match in mine. I too use a MC352 paired to a Chardonnay driving TDL Reference Studio Monitor 'M' . Are your B&W the Nautiluses ? I have heard the N802 & in many ways they sound similar to the TDL's. I too run everything in un-balanced mode. Have been leaning towards sigledriver / horn / 300B sys since of late. The Chardoanny performed admirably in this combination as well. So hang in there & keep counting the days.
Now if only Mick puts his mind to a 300B SET .....................
|
Baranyi,
I assume you do not have the manual.
Looking at the back of the preamp,
Phono Loading Slider Switch: Top to Bottom = 47k,1K, 100, and 10 Ohms respectively if your preamp is standard. Otherwise, you have to ask the original owner on what config he requested (values).
RCA's from left to right: Phono input (considered as input 1), then input 2, input 3, and input 4.
Next is Tape REC and then Tape Play. Then it's output 1 and output 2. Gain, then power.
For the front knobs, Left is Volume control, and Right is the selector switch with the ff setting as you move CW: phono, input 2, input3, input 4.
As for the power cord, I find it better to get a good regulator tube than a power cord. The regulator tube's impact to the preamp performance is instantaneous.
As far as I know, many owners use different tubes. It is difficult to pinpoint what the best tubes are for each position from previous posters/text but it is a little easier to determine which does not sound good as you read the thread. For example, RCA 5692's does not bring its magic on this preamp. So as the Tungsol 5881, etc. etc.
I use the "low" gain setting on mine.
congratulations! |
Amandarae,
Thanks for the assistance. I did get an emailed version of the manual but it didn't specify what the inputs are. Thanks for clarifying it for me. I have been playing around with the gains settings and the best for me so far is high gain with some of the gain cut back on the 6 way switch on the back of the unit. I have only played the Chenin one evening though and that could change. I look forward to comparing notes with you since we have the same amp (H2O) and preamp. They were a magical pair on my first evening using them. Bob |
Im thinking of upgrading my amps to VTL 450 or Parasound JC-1. I love the VTLs but cant help but wonder about the JC-1s considering the price and all the positive press they have received. Anyone out there have experience with these two amps with Chenin as pre.
Thanks |
Im thinking of upgrading my amps to VTL 450 or Parasound JC-1. I love the VTLs but cant help but wonder about the JC-1s considering the price and all the positive press they have received. Anyone out there have experience with these two amps with Chenin as pre.
Thanks |
I am wondering what the remote looks like on the Chenin. Is it a typical universal TV remote? Does it have any verbage that one would know it is part of a Supratek preamp? Bob |
I am wondering what the remote looks like on the Chenin. Is it a typical universal TV remote? Does it have any verbage that one would know it is part of a Supratek preamp? Bob |
I need your help guys. Anyone with technical expertise, please chime in. I have already sent an email to Mick. My Syrah seems to be inducing a buzz in my Joule Electra OTL amp. Not in the speakers, but in the amp itself. Loud enough to hear from 10' away. Starts as soon as the pre is energized and goes away when its shut off. Lifted the ground, no help. Muted the amp, no help. Swapped in my old Yammie C2a from 25 years ago, no buzzzz. Any ideas? Jud at Joule says he has no clue. |
Swampwalker,
Did you sell your Zh-270? How would you describe the differences between the Joule and the Berning?Bob |
Bob- I probably will be selling it soon. I will need to figure out what is going on with the Syrah first. If it has to go "down under" I may hold onto it a while. My general comment is that the Berning is more neutral but the Joule is more emotional. Obviously a major diff in MSRP. I have not gotten the silver wire upgrade on the Berning, nor do I have the Stereovox cables that others rave about. Right now I will probably stick with the Joule, but based on bang for the buck (esp. if you are buying new) the Berning is quite remarkable. |
Swampwalker - did it buzz when you were using the Berning amp or is this new - since the Joule arrived?
So.. let me see if I have this right, the AMP is buzzing? not the speakers? |
A question for you guys.
I have just received a new Berning ZH270 with the wire upgrade. Haven't received the cryoed tubes yet, Allan will be sending these in the next few weeks. I have about 6-7 hours on the amp and it is improving each hour. I am still scraping my jaw off the floor. With more break-in and cryoed tubes, I can't wait to hear the full potential of this amp. Maybe the wire upgrade makes a big difference, but I can't imagine anyone thinking this amp sounds lean. Not as syrupy as the ASL 845 I had, but the dynamics kill the 845. The bass simply ratttles the walls. Tubes aren't suppose to have this kind of bass!
But here is my reason for posting.
Have you guys noticed how long it takes for your Supratek to bloom after start-up. Mick says it is up to full speed in an hour, but my experience is that it takes a minimum of 4 hours, usually 5 for the bloom to happen. It sounds good upon start-up, but when the tubes bloom the soundstage expands considerably and the 3D, holographic images are amazing.
What is the general consensus as to how long you Supratek takes after start-up to open up and take on that life-like quality? |
Bwhite- this is new. I had used the Berning and the Joule with no problems. Then the Joule crapped out and went home to Jud for repairs. When I hooked it up upon return, BUZZZZ. Its from the amp, not the speakers. Swapped in a new (old) pre, dead quiet. Upon Jud's suggestion, I powered the Supratek via (gasp!!!!) an old extension cord from another circuit. A little buzz at the amp, but in playing around with home made noise detector (a length of old hose held up to the ear), I was able to track the predominant noise source to the power supply stage of the pre-amp!!! Further testing showed me that it is coming from inside the pwer supply, up through the vent (?) slots in front of the rectifier. NOt sure I want to fish around further in there with power on and high voltages, but does anyone who knows how these things work have any ideas? |
Swampwalker,
I had the same problem. It was DC on the line. I fixed it with a combination of the 'Ah! AC Offset Killer' and an isolation transformer. The 'Ah! AC Offset Killer' seemed to be 90% of the cure.
Now there is just a teeny hum that you have to listen very carefully to hear. I mentioned this fix to Mick soon after I got my Supratek and he said he would look into it. Not sure what happened after that. |
Fiddler - Thanks for the information, I'd like to know a bit more about your solution. Was your amp making a mechanical hum, or did you hear buzz from the speakers? What isolation transformer do you use?
Do you connect the system like:
A. AC Offset Killer --> Transformer --> Supratek
B. Transformer --> AC Offset Killer --> Supratek |
Swampy. What rectifier are you using and does it test strong? |
Swampwalker, I understand that the buzz only happened after the Joule returned from repair, and I also assume from your answer to Bwhite that the Supratek does not do this with other amps, e.g. the Berning.
If part of a circuitry has a weak ground--for example, the return (ground) connection on an interconnect or RCA socket--then this can cause the signal to "find ground"--i.e., induce a current over dielectrics--in other parts and induce buzzing in tranformers.
Once the Joule and Supratek are connected via interconencts they are essentially a single circuit--and you are getting noise in both power supplies.
My guess--and this is simply a guess--is that either the process of connecting and disconnecting interconnects has created an intermitant short in one of them, or shipping may have caused some minor weakness in one of the many internal ground paths in the Joule. Because every component is different, it is coincidential that connecting the Yamaha C2A "curcuitry" doesn't induce errant current flows, but connecting the Supratek's does.
Try: 1) swapping a few interconnects; 2) inspecting, flexing, and testing them for continuity with a voltmeter; and/or 3) opening the Joule and looking for weak solder joint. |
Current situation- I have traced the noise to the torodial power transformer on the Supratek power supply. I tested the rectifiers (about 6) that I have and unless every one is bad, my tube tester is on the blink. Anyways, it starts immediately when the power switch trips the circuit. Any thoughts? |
Brian, the noise was a mechanical hum from the transformer in the power supply of my Supratek. Rather loud. Now there is just a faint hum that you can hear if you put your ear near the hole in the top of the power supply.
Before I could easily hear the transformer humming from my listening chair. And BTW, the AC Offset Killer didn't seem to affect the dynamics at all, nor did it seem to add any coloration.
I used solution B. |
Most torroidal transformers have electrostatic screen. Besides, it is unlikely that DC will be present at the secondary. I would suspect that it is possible one of the rectifer is bad.
If you have a scope, you can look at the ripple voltage after the filter caps or at the regulator input to each channel. Most of the time it should be small (in order of millivolts). But if you measure around 100 mV or more, that could be the problem.
Just my thoughts..... |
I have been enjoying the Chenin quite a bit for the last two weeks. My Chenin has all stock tubes except for a GZ-37 Mullard. I am wondering if anyone might have some vintage tubes for this preamp they might be willing to sell. It is hard to imagine that this preamp could get much better but this must be the case with all the tube rolling that is going on. Bob |
swampwalker,just wondering if you contacted Mick ,, |
Supratek Cabernet : really at the top ?
I am wondering if, as some people here say, the Cabernet is really a competitor for the "best preamp of the world". Do you think it can competes with ARC REF3, CJ ACT2, etc. ? Of course it looks better, of course it's nice that it's done by only one man and it costs twice less. But is it really one of the very best (cost no object) ?
Also a question. It has output transformers but I have seen somewhere that it is directly coupled. Isn't there a contradition here ?
Thanks and regards. |
hi everyone
i think i almost read the whole thread and consider buying a chardonnay.
i have heard that there might be a new volume control introduced to the supra???
does anybody know something about that?
hum4god |
Hello everyone I have a Cortese and I am in the process of rebuilding my first turntable (Lenco L75) . I have a rega rb250 arm and I want to get a cartridge. I was thinking of getting a Stanton 881 Mark II S Cartridge, is this a good cartridge for starters ? I want to spend less then $200.00 and may upgrade later when I tweak everything in . I am open to comments and or suggestions .
Thank you for all the great information !! |
yay!!! i just got the nod from mick. my black / chrome chardonnay is ready. *giddy with anticipation*
kevin t |
