Power Conditioning / Surge Protection

Sorry but your example is too simplistic to be realistic. That 10V drop assumes the capacitors never charge. They do of course.


As well if there was 1 ohm resistance the spikes would not longer be 10A since current would be limited by voltage drop across the resistor (see charged capacitors above).

How would this potential loss be audible in a "poorly regulated" amplifier?  That would require you justifying that there would be more noise with higher resistance. You have not done that yet.

audio2design, Let's assume that amp draws from mains 1A during music peaks.  It will likely be drawn in spikes of amplitude reaching 10A.  If filtering coil has 1 ohm resistance it will cause voltage drop of 10V equivalent to 20% of max power loss.  In addition inductor in series supposed to filter out high frequency content (electrical noise) while normal current (narrow spikes) also has high frequency energy.  Of these two factors I would guess that inductive reactance of the coil will have bigger effect, unless inductor has high resistance (thin wire).  Such power loss might only limit maximum output peaks in well regulated amplifiers but might still be audible at any output power in less regulated amps (zero feedback etc.)

My amp has the same dynamics plugged into Furman or the wall.  Many people reported loss of dynamics with conditioners and that's the only plausible explanation I can come up with.

I go with cool meaningless name for "balanced surge protection". Whole house is the way to go. Better to have the surge protection as far from the equipment as possible.

Does it really kill dynamics? Unless you are clipping what is the mechanism by why "dynamics" are reduced? How would it be different from the normal line voltage variation from say 120-127?

Wouldn't that resistance make the spikes smaller and reduce noise and distortion?

The problem is that filtering places resistance in series that causes big voltage drops and kills dynamics.

Stick with the Gray’s. They are parallel circuit devices....I have a 30 amp and 20 amp dedicated line installed. I live in S. Fl and I have a custom 1200 for the majority of my equipment(t.t., phono drive, Rowland model 12, Marantz BluRay, Classe processor, 2 other Jeff Rowland amps for surround) since 2009 and I also have 2 400’s daisy chained with my Jeff Rowland amp and Focal sub on the other side plugged into it....A custom 1200 is basically 2 400’s....
I have been in correspondence with Alex, the president of Richard Gray, as I had the same questions as you do about whether or not to pull the Gray’s out or not. Also in correspondence with the president of Straight Wire who lives in proximity to me(as I have S.W. power mains) and he has a custom 1200 to protect his gear. The Gray’s are well designed. And if I could ever have a confirmatory opinion, it was from Jeff Rowland himself. I asked him about the Grays. Will they detract from the sound. His Response:

Jeff Rowland (Jeff Rowland Design Group)

Aug 27, 2020, 8:58 AM MDT

"Just leave the Grays on for the added ac mains protection. They most likely will not affect the performance in any way and likely improve the overall performance.

The advice to not use added power conditioners is a general statement because there are some types that can limit current or regenerator types that do not work well with the power factor correction circuitry in some of our products. You should be fine with the Grays."

If Jeff tells me the Gray’s are good, I am good...And while I have never had a lightning strike on my house, from what I’ve read, a Gray has never failed or melted down from a strike.

So now, I’m in discussion with Jerry from Straight Wire to replace the Gray’s stock power mains and replace them with their 9 gauge Pro Thunder mains.

But, Richard Gray does sell a house surge protector to be installed at the circuit breaker. I may ask Alex about that.
By the by, my system sound fantastic. I'm not losing any sonics with the Gray's.

I hope this helps.

"Balanced surge protection" is an interesting name.   Since our USA 120VAC power is split phase, single ended, balanced means it either works for 240VAC, which is balanced, or it applies the same filtering on the line and the neutral, even though it is an unbalanced line.   (The only other option is it just a cool name and has nothing to do with the design.)

There are two schools of thought among engineers here.   Some believe filters on the neutral line is a good idea, others don't.   If you design this stuff, you will be in one group or the other, to be sure.   

All the surge devices for which I design at work, have filters on the line and neutral.    For audio work, I leave the earth connection alone, for industrial stuff, it often has voltage limiting on it from neutral to earth. 

The "inductor in parallel with the line" term must mean in series with the line, since it is counter productive to put it in across the line, and in parallel means the line is shorting it out.   If they mean something else, then it is not in parallel with the line.

You want to protect and to filter.  The problem is that filtering places resistance in series that causes big voltage drops and kills dynamics.  Most of power supplies take current from mains in short spike of huge amplitude (about 10 fold of average).  I use Furman Elite 20PFi.  They call it "Power Factor Correction", but in reality it is huge inductor in series with large capacitor (in parallel to load) that stores energy delivering up to 55A current for spikes (it presents resistive load to mains).  It also has very tight non-sacrificial over/under voltage protection with circuit breaker, that resets itself.

https://www.furmanpower.com/product/conditioner-power-ht-20a-power-factor-ELITE-20%20PF%20I

In addition, I installed whole house protection in form of dual 20A breaker (Siemens panel style), by just swapping breakers.  Even if you have to hire electrician it is worth it.  Today everything is electronic, including appliances and even bulbs.

If the priority is surge protection check out SurgeX

If you are in an area where you get a lot of lightning in storms then yes I’d suggest getting additional surge protection as a backup to the whole home surge protector. I’ve had to have a couple WHSPs replaced due to lightning striking that close, and luckily the WHSP did its job. My power conditioner includes surge protection, If you decide that you don’t want a power conditioner you might consider a Shunyata Venom Defender for additional surge protection, plug into an unused outlet where you have the equipment plugged in.

Specific to a power conditioner I’ve definitely found improvement from using one.

I have a whole home surge protector. I didn’t know if I needed something more. I was also curious about the benefits of a power conditioner

+1 on the whole house surge protector.
@facten recommended.

There is a nice comparison review on Positive Feedback:
https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/audioquest-niagara-5000-ps-audio-p20-directst...
It might help you understand the differences between the two different approaches AQ and PS Audio use.
Bob

If you are buying a costly power unit and you hope for improvement in sound, the common advice TRY before you BUY is important. Power units' effects vary by system. I have had good results with the Torus RM-20, but that doesn't mean you will like it. It is a pretty no-nonsense solution.

If it's just surge protection you are after, I second the idea of a whole-house surge protector, professionally installed.

Herewith are a couple of reviews that provide some insight into how the Richard Gray units work....

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/revequip/richard_grays_power_company.htm

https://www.stereophile.com/powerlineaccessories/255/index.html

It’s interesting that an inductor is in parallel with the AC input and is used to provide energy storage for transient current demands. A "sacrificial" MOV is also used for surge suppression.

Reportedly, Richard Gray is now semi-retired and is a consultant for RGPC.

I wonder what "Balanced surge protection" is. Both 120vac legs are tied into the Power station? Neither can get a surge because both rails are protected? In case a piece of EQ wasn't on the same leg? Just wondering?

Regards..

If your only concern is surge protection you might consider getting a whole house surge protector installed at the panel by an electrician.

I appreciate these suggestions. Thanks

Hard to say if your Richard Gray Power Stations are up to the task without knowing the specific model number. The website does indicate that current models offer "balanced surge protection" but no info on protection level.

You might want to start by contacting the company and finding out if what you have is adequate or not. If you end up replacing your existing units, the higher-end Audioquest and Furman power conditioners are solid choices.

If you do a search in discussions (at top of this page) you'll be rewarded with all manner of thoughts and views on this, from those with first hand experience, to those who've never tried it and love to troll those who have. Just give it time.

I use a Audioquest Niagara 1200 and simply love and appreciate its contribution to my system. Better sound with lower noise floor, increased dynamics, etc. and surge protection. It also has a great grounding scheme which negated the need of my Gutwire grounding cables. 

All the best,
Nonoise