@vassilis_t
Thanks for sharing your set up. Are you able to describe any audible differences that can be attributed to the Ypsilon VPS vs the FM Acoustics 122? Have you tried to switch one phono stage from one system to the other to listen for any changes?
I read some about the Zanden, but I'm currently not too interested; however I did read some about the Allnic H8000 DHT, which sounds intriguing, but there aren't many reviews of that item. Superficially, what attracts my attention to the Allnic is the transformer coupled nature and no negative feedback (similar to Ypsilon), features which I seem to appreciate, .
@drrsutliff
I'll have to look closer at the DSA Phono III. Have you heard it? What can you compare it to? Any particular attributes that you appreciate?
Thanks.
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Maybe a Brinkmann Edison MK II, I have not heard one yet, but does have a complement of various settings...
Steve
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Dear @drbond : " Thanks for the FM acoustic recommendation, but are there any other brands that you can also recommend, w.....""
There are a lot of phono stages to choose in between but my take is not exactly that but understand why exist a Phono Stage unit? Why not have only one electronic item with low noise/high gain where the signal goes directly to the amps, with no additional cables for a phono stage and additional electronics signal degradations?
Because that's the main point when we are talking of this or the other phono stage. Let me explain my opinion:
It's obvious, we need a phono stage because the cartridge signal that goes at the input of any phono stage needs to be proccessed in that unit with an Inverse RIAA Eq. Curve that be inverse can mimic the RIAA standard to have a flat response after the inverse RIAA was pplied to the signal and that is the main reason of the phono stage existence.
Now, the RIAA curve is not an " easy or lower " equalization but the other way around. Its runs from 20hz to 20khz at around very high and low equalization levels around: +,- 20dbs ! ! and this means that that curve has a swing of 40dbs ! ! where any single/low deviation from the standard affects around 2 MUSIC octaves making a non-desired " colorations " work.
What all those really means? That the inverse must mimic the standard and this means: mimic accurately to stay nearer to the recording.
I'm not talking if the unit we own like it, it does not matters because that is not the main point but accuracy and today accuracy means phono stages with at least a RIAA deviation not higher than +,- 0.1db.
Ypsilon, DSA and almost all the names here but FMA are far away to acomplish an accurated inverse RIAA: your unit has a swing of 1.0 db! To high. Where goes the money we pay for Ypsilon or other high priced electronics when are non-accurated.
Please remember that when I'm talking of accuracy this not means analythical. Far away from there, accuracy is just that: accuracy.
I like FMA but the Boulder 2108 is an option.
Again, I'm not talking of what we like I'm talking of what is wrong or rigth against what we are paid for the ps units. Some kind of critical measurements puts its finger where it hurts to the subjectivist gentlemans.
If you want something truly better of what you own then you have to think seriously on what I said here. Yes, only an opinion where the best one is your opinion along your room/system targets.
R.
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Why not use two different phono preamps? It would allow flexibility to experiment with different sound profiles.
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@drbond, what a difficult, yet fun decision. I happen to own a full Ypsilon and FM Acoustics systems and they are both awesome. Both systems are "buy and forget" as you focus on enjoying music and nothing else. The Ypsilon Phono requires SUTs for MC, and in my case I have 2 from Ypsilon to cover the cartridges I use. The FM has switches and modules with various resistance values (FM122, in my case), instead. Obviously, the FMA 223 mentioned above is at a higher level than mine. I have selected not to mix the two systems, as they both perform the best when matched with their in-house components. Another phono that I considered seriously prior to deciding on the Ypsilon was the Zanden Model 1200mk3. The TTs I use are Helix 2 with Ikeda arm, Thales Compact II with Simplicity II arm, and Simon Yorke S4 and S10 with their "house" S7 and Aero arms, respectively. Cartridges used are VDH Frog, multiple top IKEDA, Lyra Skala, Transfiguration Orpheus, Shelter 901III, various EMT, Grado MM Reference and Ortofon A90. All contribute to sonic diversity and fun, as well as to prove to friends that choice of cartridge can totally transform a system, up or down!
I do not know where you live, but now with the "show season" in full swing, you maybe be able to convince distributors to bring their phono to your home for a trial. There is no other better or safer way to make the decision.
Unfortunately, I haven't auditioned the Manley or the EM/IA, thus no comparative notes there.
Good luck!
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No @jperry - I had to draw the financial limit at the used model.
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Dynamic Sound Associates (DSA) Phono3.
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holmz
It sounds better. Have you heard it and compared? I have.
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@drbond One thing about EM/IA is that they wind their own SUTs and are known to be pretty easy to work with if changes are needed. Just a practical note...
Nice system!
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The MC section is a SUT and loading card section, with jumpers for SUT/no-SUT, loading card/or not… etc.
The Nagra Classic replaced the VPS in 2020 and is better than the VPS, which it replaced.
How is it better?
The web site says:
| Total harmonic distortion (THD + N): |
Please refer to the below graph |
However the 2nd harmonic looks like it is 20+dB higher than the VPS.
Third harmonic looks the same,
And the noise on the Classic looks a lot lower on the Classic.
The ARC gear sound pretty good to me as well.
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You can likely have the Classic Phono customized. If not you can run a SUT into the MM phono. The Nagra Classic replaced the VPS in 2020 and is better than the VPS, which it replaced.
If Nagra releases a HD Phono, which seems likely given they just started making a turntable, I am sure it will be impressive, having heard the HD preamp and DAC.
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@jperry
Thanks for the recommendation, but it appears that the Nagra phono stage only has one MC input, and one MM input. To accommodate the Dohmann, I would need two MC inputs
I just got an older VPS.
It has 2x MC inputs, but I jumpered one to work as a MM.
I assume that a classic also can be gotten in 2x MC, with some extra coins.
(Just standard is 1xMM and 1xMC.)
The Classic is likely a step up, but my pockets are not as deep as I would like them to be.
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Just one man's opinion, but I have heard the Nagra, albeit not in a few years, and I do not think it would play in the league with Ypsilon, EMIA, and FM Acoustics. Like I said, it's only my opinion.
drbond, I have not kept up with the latest and greatest in current-driven phono stages, but I had set my sights on the BMC MMCI Signature edition. It's balanced and solid state. I don't know whether it has been bettered in the last year or so. You might say it's too inexpensive for your category (~$5000).
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@jperry
Thanks for the recommendation, but it appears that the Nagra phono stage only has one MC input, and one MM input. To accommodate the Dohmann, I would need two MC inputs.
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@onhwy61
Yes, the Dohmann Helix One Mk 2 has space for two tonearms, which I am running two Schroder CB 11 tonearms, with the aforementioned cartridges.
@rauliruegas
Thanks for the FM acoustic recommendation, but are there any other brands that you can also recommend, which may be your #2 and #3 choices?
@tablejockey
Thanks. I realize that I probably only have 10-15 years left of good hearing, so I may as well spend my money on something I can enjoy for a while. . .
@lewm
Thanks for clarifying some details about the SUT. What are some current driven phono stages that you would recommend?
Thanks.
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Dohmann Helix One-
You've arrived, when you can say the Manley Steelhead is "just getting by."
Well done.
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In response to your question about SUTs vs different LOMC cartridges, as long as the cartridge has a low internal resistance, which nearly any good LOMC will have, i.e., less than ~20 ohms, the choice of a SUT is more linked to how much added gain you will need over and above that which is supplied by the MM phono stage to which you attach the SUT. In this case, be aware that the Ypsilon phono stage provides only 39db of internal gain. Most MM stages provide more like 40-50db of gain. That can make a difference (in choosing a SUT) if your goal is to generate more than 60db of total phono gain for a typical LOMC cartridge. Of course, linestage gain also counts in that equation. On Raul's recommendation of the FM Acoustics, I have no comment.
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And yes, you can put on sale your today electronics in case that you decide to own " the best of the best " quality true performance levels. Nothing less.
R.
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Dear @drbond : Agree, you need something better than Manley and An Ypsilon electronics.
If you really are looking for the better quality performance levels and I mean better not diffeent the you must to go for and all FM Acoustics full electronic system. This is phono stage, line stage and way superior amp that your over 90K monobloks.
This is the phono stage and please at the end of the link download critical information by pdf format ( you need to read it. ):
https://www.fmacoustics.com/products/phono-linearizers/fm-223/
Nexte link for the amplifier and the measured of your monobloks where its higher than we want output impedance makes me ask: where are those 90+K ?, look for its frequency response.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
rrrrrrr
https://www.stereophile.com/content/ypsilon-electronics-hyperion-monoblock-power-amplifier-measurements
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Congrats on your system!
Does the Dohmann take two tonearms?
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@lewm
Yes, both cartridges that I'm running are LOMC (Lyra Atlas, and Koetsu Urushi Black). With my limited understanding of SUT, a potential disadvantage is that if I change the cartridge, then the SUT should also change, based on the internal resistance of the MC (although it seems that as long as you stay within certain parameters, the SUT might not need changing).
What are some of the "top line balanced, current-driven" phono stages?
Thanks.
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I've heard both the EMIA and the Ypsilon (on different days driving the same downstream components), and I own a Steelhead v2. You can't go wrong with either of the higher priced alternatives; they both sounded great to me, also using both a Ypsilon SUT and an EMIA SUT, on different occasions. I cannot recall any important differences with any of those combinations. Both are probably a hair better than the Steelhead (with the caveat that I did not hear the Steelhead driving that same particular system), but the Steelhead does offer the option of selectable gain up to 65db, negating the need and added expense of any SUT. Plus, the Steelhead is amenable to a little tweak that I performed on mine that significantly improved its transparency. Tough call, unless cost within this wide range is no object.
You might also want to consider other expensive phono stages that do provide gain enough for an LOMC cartridge, without requiring a SUT. I would strongly urge you to consider a top line balanced, current-driven phono stage, if your cartridge choice is confined to LOMCs with very low internal impedance. Or buy one of those and also buy either the EMIA or the Ypsilon, for your high output cartridges; you can get a very high quality current-driven phono for very little more cost than a top line SUT.
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