Phono Stage Question.....

I think .6 mV is too high an output for the Loco. Sutherland phono stages are excellent, quiet, and if you get one with a LPS, even quieter. I have an Insight and it is excellent, although I haven't tried anything other than what came with my Plinius amp, which was supposed to be excellent. The Insight blew it away-lots of impedance and gain options. It works well with my VDH MC One Special cartridge. Ron Sutherland is of the mind set of set it and forget it. To change the settings, you have to take the shell off the unit, and it doesn't use cheap plastic slider switches, there are gold plated shunts that are taken out and reinserted to the desired setting. Definitely not for those that love to constantly experiment/tinker or like meters, lights or other decorative features. Very basic look - I like it. Doesn't even have an on/off switch. Simplicity and direct path design with nothing to add noise.

 

Thanks for the link lloydc!!

Good information!

It's helpful!

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/is-a-lyra-kleos-good-with-a-current-mode-phono-preamp Here’s a prior question I posed on this subject

I can't speak into the comparison but I just finished a secondary system using a Sutherland 20/20 with the outboard power supply and I'm very happy with the results. I'm using an Ortofon 2m Black / Linn 330 arm / Thorens 160 combo into a Cary SL80 F1 feeding a pair of ADS L1590 speakers. On some of my records I have absolutely no surface noise! I bought the 20/20 used at a really good price and the LVP was new. 

It was my understanding that the Delos and Sutherland would not be a good match.

Why not change your thinking and get a Bob's Devices Sky 20 which should be an excellent match for your cartridge.....and much less expensive than the Sutherland with sound quality equal to or even better than the Sutherland

Hi, Quincy.

I suggest that you ask your hifi dealer if you can loan a unit to try for a few days because that's all it would take to convince you of the merits of the sutherland products. I currently use a hubble phono stage that has no equal for detail retrieval and sound staging if you can find one buy it!!

You may want to look into the Channel D.

Not as "plug and play" and I've seen some here on Audiogon.  It's worth a look.

Most of the senior writers at Stereophile magazine us the Loco as their reference. favorite.

D.

I love my Loco! Just make sure you have a low output cart. 

I’m running a Lyra Delos currently with the Little Loco II

i went from the 20/20 for the last 3 years  and have had the little loco 

for about 3 months.  There’s really no comparison

This Little Loco was the biggest single improvement I have encountered 

since I began this hobby

Every single record I  play ,plays back 

inhibited and gives me a balance in tone I have never heard.

Really this unit just trounced the 20/20

which thought was good in itself.

You Will not be disappointed 

Good luck Willy -T

 

Sutherland, to the best of my knowledge, did not invent the idea of current drive.  As noted elsewhere, every current driven phono stage is going to sound a little different with any given cartridge.  This is my experience as an owner of a BMC MCCI, and after comparing notes with other owners of other current driven stages. My guess is that this is because none of these devices is "ideal"; an ideal current driven stage would have a zero input impedance, and that is not possible.  Hence they all have slight differences in input impedance, ranging from a few ohms to as much as 20 ohms.  This impedance will interact with the internal R of the cartridge, resulting in slightly different gain characteristics and possibly in sonic character as well.  Another factor affecting SQ is the fact that these devices consist of a current to voltage converter input that adds gain via amplifying current but puts out a voltage to drive the downstream circuit, which must be a conventional RIAA filter operating in the voltage domain, and the output is ultimately a signal voltage. Nothing is perfect. In my opinion, one should not assume that current drive is some sort of panacea for problems of cartridge loading (and only relevant to LOMC cartridges with very low internal resistance).

rauliruegas...thanks for your input.  It has great value.

One question not answered in the review.  Is the PS phase or non phase inverting?  Very important to know, especially with C-J equipment.

 

Dear @quincy  : The Sutherland has very good design but been current mode  has the disadvantage that if in the future you buy another cartridge with over 10ohm it does not performs very well.

 

I think that a better alternative is this excellent SS voltage design that everything the same performs at least if not better than the ST. Please read and take a look too to its measurements. It's a great phono stage:

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

Imho its about success of design and implementation versus flavor of analog technology. So the Sutherland ( or Channel D ) may be better but I don't think we can draw universal conclusions vis a vis voltage or current design.

 

As an aside, I wonder about life span / reparability of modern surface mount gear versus say vacuum tube designs. We shall see ':)

 

 

Since your EF1 is solid state, I believe you would have a great experience with it all the way around - 'much improved-go and buy it'

I’ve got a friend with a similar Kleos who adores his Loco.

In my own setup, I am a big fan of the musical benefits of transimpedance with its effortless presentation that exudes emotion in space.