I have a mid-level to low end turntable. (Music Hall 11.1) and a low end decent Phono Stage Music Fidelity M1. Good tonearm and good cartridge.
I listen to JAZZ so volume isn't too much of an issue, but sometimes I just want it loud. I have Cary Audio slp-05 tube pre and the Cary Audio mono block main tube amps as drivers
I crank the volume up just past half way and there tends to be distortion. Below half way the sound is incredible. The records sound better than the corresponding CD or, of course, DAC streaming.
Would upgrading my phono-stage to one with greater boost help me? Or is that half (my whole phono system) of my system as good as it could get?
I own an M1ViNL and can concur that while I love it for MM cartridges, it lacks a bit of gain for low output MC cartridges. I think your experience with your CD front end proves the rest of your system is up to the task.
First, if you're sticking with the Legacy I would make sure it's properly aligned and that the stylus isn't worn. After checking that, I would look to a phono preamp with more gain so as to be a better match. For my MC carts (currently a Zyx Airy 3SB @ .24mv) I'm using an E.A.T E-Glo Petit which sounds great and has plenty of gain, but there are lots of options, including keeping your M1ViNL and getting a step-up as mulveling suggests.
Gregdude also has a great call out on making sure your TT has proper isolation. I'm fortunate to be on concrete in my basement, but I've used both granite and butcher block in situations where my floor wasn't as solid.
Has anyone suggested better isolation for the source? If not, there you go. I upgraded to a marble plank for better iso and I can jam much louder now with less distortion. Might be something to consider.
imhifiman: with volume halfway up on the SLP-05 using an Audia Flight CD player the volume is very high and no distortion... But at halfway with the TT the volume is 3/4 of the volume of the CD but with distortion. The mono blocks are the CAD805 Anniversary.
Except for @ditusathe other posters have all provided the WRONG solution by focusing on the phono stage/cartridge instead of the amp/power requirements to drive a pair of Totem Winds! Can't be done with a 15 watt tube amp - the Cary 805's.
The Cary 805's only have about 15 watts at 1% distortion before the distortion goes way up quickly - 2%, 4%, 8%, 16% ... This distortion profile is typical of single-end amps - tube and SS. No wonder the 805's sound way better when they are only putting out a watt or less! They shouldn't be asked to drive a low sensitivity speaker like the Totems loudly!
Even at lower SPL's a good SS amp will sound cleaner than a tube amp. I am speaking from 40+ years experience. Plus I own a collection of tube amps and preamps - but prefer SS.
@ditusa: +1! At least I am not alone with speaking the truth! Tube amps are NOT low distortion devices - particularly when used to drive difficult speaker loads. Electric guitarists like them for their distortion!
It's your tube amps running out of power (clipping) and distorting! No wonder they sound better at lower SPL's! Nothing wrong with your phono stage. Get a powerful SS amp if you want to listen at louder SPL's! Bryston, Parasound, Krell ...
@mulvelinghas given the best advice. 56db is not enough gain for a LOMC IMO. This is especially true of 25mv cart which is very low output. I believe your phono pre is failing to keep pace with the rest of your system. Many people my self included believe the phono pre is as important as the TT itself. You TT far outclasses the phono preamp. Your cart is fine and is not the problem IMO. It falls in line with Origin Live’s heirarchy of Vinyl budget. I’d be looking at a phono pre that is an equivalent match with the TT.
BTW 60db gain for MC is the minimum you should have if you are going to run 25mv carts. There are many more LOMC which have these low outputs, IE Zyx is .24 and my Benz Ebony L was about .26 or so. Lots of the higher end carts can be below .30. So keep that in mind as you proceed.
If your phono stage comes with balanced XLR and unbalanced RCA output, use the RCA connect to your Cary slp-05 might provide a better result.
the Cary SLP 05 offers respectable measured performance from its unbalanced jacks. I was a little disappointed with its behavior in balanced mode, however.—John Atkinson
The MF M1 phono stage has an MC-mode gain of only 56 dB (you calculate that out from its listed 500 uV input to 300 mV output). That’s pretty low. I wouldn’t be comfortable using that with any cartridge below say 0.6 mV. If @rodman99999 is right and OP’s cart is the Goldring Legacy at 0.25mV, this is indeed a significant mismatch. The dealer shouldn’t have let this combo leave his shop. You HAVE TO match cartridge to phono stage gain, or all kinds of nasty problems can arise. For 0.25 mV I’d want at least 66 dB, likely more (72dB is good). Running 10dB below this range is asking for a bad time, and explains OP’s volume issue.
OP can also try a SUT of 20X - 30X in combination with his current phono stage in MM mode (NOT MC mode), and that should resolve the issue.
with volume halfway up on the SLP-05 using an Audia Flight CD player the volume is very high and no distortion. So, when I say volume halfway it is to my knowledge of the system which doesn't help you much. But at halfway with the TT the volume is 3/4 of the volume of the CD but with distortion. The mono blocks are the CAD805 Anniversary.
Since CD played louder with no distortion, we can rule out possibility of preamp overloaded the power amplifier, and speaker sensitivity isn't the issue.
Only thing left could be cartridge or phono stage.
300mV output from the phono stage seem fine.
I checked alignment and the weight, and they seem fine.
If your system is capable of providing a satisfying SPL, with your CD/digital sources (typical output: around 2V), but: not with the output of your analog rig; the problem is obviously the lack of voltage from the phono stage.
Either seek a higher mV output cartridge or a phono stage with greater gain.
The Goldring Legacy (if that's the, "Legacy", to which you refer) is a LOMC (.25mV).
Is your phono stage designed for LOMCs (60dB of gain, or better)?
imhifiman: with volume halfway up on the SLP-05 using an Audia Flight CD player the volume is very high and no distortion. So, when I say volume halfway it is to my knowledge of the system which doesn't help you much. But at halfway with the TT the volume is 3/4 of the volume of the CD but with distortion. The mono blocks are the CAD805 Anniversary.
mckinneymike: Pro-Ject evolution carbon fiber, I think, which came with the TT and a low end (I am assuming) cartridge is a Legacy. The retailer set up the unit for me. I checked alignment and the weight, and they seem fine.
On a side note, I get fantastic results at lower volume. Strings and light cymbals or brushes on the drum sound amazing.... But I still suspect you are right.
Sounds like.the turntable/cartridge is your issue. Cary slp-05 is good preamp and the musical fidelity is good. Getting good analog sound takes really good turntable/tonearm/cartridge. I would guess either cartridge is misaligned or cartridge problem. What is the cartridge? Who setup your table?
I crank the volume up just past half way and there tends to be distortion. Below half way the sound is incredible. The records sound better than the corresponding CD or, of course, DAC streaming.
We're missing some important info. What is the cartridge, Cary Audio mono block main tube amp and speaker in your system?
Volume knob position means nothing! Could be the phono stage and preamp gain is too high overloaded the power amp input. You need to know the total gain of the whole system and the sensitivity of your speaker to see what cause the problem.
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