Does anyone know the intricate details of how these most current PPS eMats differ, aside by appearance, from the previous two generations of PPT eMat & eMat+?.any insight will be greatly appreciated...
How many people do you see leading the world forward in technical fields "without a formal education". The answer is pretty close to none. If you don't know what was done by those before you, it is impossible to build on what they have done.
Orval and Wilbur Wright (owned a bike shop) Howard Hughes with Lockheed (was not an aeronautical engineer) Henry Timken inventor of the taper roller bearing ( wagon builder) Gottlieb Daimler Inventor of the Motorcycle and Automobile (was a gunsmith)
Science and technology have become very diverse and complicated since those (relatively) early times. As much as it is possible that some brilliant mind makes a technological breakthrough anyway, most of the developments might be by the people who have dedicated some time to formal education about the basics of the studied field. These days, at least.
All those people mentioned above have been dead for a while. They might have lead the world forward in technical fields without formal education at the time when there was no formal education.
"Gottlieb Daimler Inventor of the Motorcycle and Automobile (was a gunsmith)"
Was there a College of Automotive Sciences in 1878?
"Howard Hughes with Lockheed (was not an aeronautical engineer)"
He might have been smarter than thinking he could do it all...
"He hoped to hire Lockheed to design a revolutionary aircraft capable of comfortably shuttling 20 passengers and 6,000 pounds of cargo across the United States, offering commercial aviation’s first coast-to-coast, non-stop service."
"Hughes outlined the initial performance specifications, but it was Lockheed that would design the sleek, distinctive, now-iconic aircraft."
I love that airplane. It is the best looking aircraft ever made. The DC 6 was so bland in comparison. The 1st Air Force 1 was a Connie. Eisenhower's Columbine II. It is harder to be a pioneer now. Advancing technology has become so much more complicated than it was at the end of the 19th century. But they still exist. I believe most of us would call Elon Musk a pioneer. Perhaps visionary is a better term. Anyway, getting this emotional over the Perfect Path Technologies eMat is pretty silly. The only effect it has is on the minds of the people who were foolish enough to spend money on it. Such is the mythology of audiophilia nervosa. I understand Pfizer is researching a drug for this rather common condition. I gave them Audiogons web address as a source for study subjects.
The only effect it has is on the minds of the people who were foolish enough to spend money on it. Such is the mythology of audiophilia nervosa. I understand Pfizer is researching a drug for this rather common condition. I gave them Audiogons web address as a source for study subjects.
I dont understand WHY you go on insulting a group of people, not one but many ? it is not "turntable ignorant crowd" this time like for some other, for you it is "ignorant tweakers"....
I dont understand WHY you exclude yourself from this disease "audiophilia nervosa" on what basis ?
I dont understand WHY you can decide by yourself what is right or wrong about a product and going through many threads where you dont participate in a positive way bashing all others active positive participants, because they bought, not your "equalizer" audio club reference gear, but another product?
I am pretty sure you dont work in psychology....For audio matters listening too much to some here, and in your "club" probably, who dont even understand what timbre concept is, apart from being "a colored warm subjective illusory" perception is not the right things to do i think....
I dont understand; but wait a minute, you give yourself an explanation in another "historical" post:
Well folks, some of us are gifted and can tell by looking at some things that they are absolutely not suited for the suggested purpose.
Orval and Wilbur Wright (owned a bike shop) - 1903 - Did not invent flight, but did the first perfection and their big contributions were control methods, and formal engineering design methods applied to the endeavour including building a wind tunnel and testing prototypes. They did real research, published results, even spoke at engineering conferences. Howard Hughes with Lockheed (was not an aeronautical engineer) - 1930's - he was the pilot, financier and front man, not the engineer who did the designs. He hired engineers and designers to build his products. Henry Timken inventor of the taper roller bearing ( wagon builder) - 1800's - Co invented by Heizenlman who did appear to have a formal training. Gottlieb Daimler Inventor of the Motorcycle and Automobile (was a gunsmith) - 1800's (University of Stuttgart, among others. He had a lot of formal education)
You may want to find some examples from at least the last 25 years. The world is a much different place. Most of the "simple" advances in science are long past. It used to be that scientists made their big discoveries early in their career (20's, 30's). Now the big discoveries are being made in their 40's as it takes that long to learn everything else so you can build on it and not recreate it.
Your contribution to this thread is? I find your post toxic and an ad-hom. Are you not capable of sticking to the topic?? If you believe I am wrong, then prove it.
cal37131,157 posts01-19-2021 11:40pm"If you do post anything useful, its ability to have any positive impact is neutered by the accompanying condescension."
You have these right papa? ... Go get one, the mat, and look at the surface. Quite obviously that came off a real production line, and not someone's basement shop. How do you think these things are manufactured?
Why
do you continue with the "
roll extrude or mold an EMI mat" nonsense. Did you read my above post?
There was no rolling, extruding, or molding involved. And Tim Mrock was
no neophyte. While his hobby was audio, his products were originally
intended for commercial use.
Can anyone join this turntable hating club mijostyn and I are ostensibly a member of? I hope that comes with a membership card and cool t-shirts.
Strange, that the two founding members of the turntable hating club were probably the most accurate in advice to a recent member who was having trouble with their turntable setup. While others were calling for throwing the turntable away or any number of expensive upgrades, mijostyn, in one of his early replies called out the exact primary issue. I would put money on the remaining issue being what I described the issue to be. Weirdest hating club ever!
Leave Tim alone and even better by doing so you will leave his lady Krissy out of this as well. She has eyes and ears so she knows your beating on the dead guy. Do you think that makes her feel happy or sad? Buzz off. Tom
" Leave Tim alone......your beating on the dead guy."
My attempt at that went unnoticed a day or two ago.
At the same time, for another unexplained reason, it seems that supporters of PPT products do, insensitively so, bring the man’s name into discussion. Can you stop it, please?
Why does every time, or virtually every time, when PPT products are discussed talk shift to inventor instead of continuing with invention? To the point when proof that products are working as advertised is that inventor was a very friendly and chatty person. Why not leave the man in peace? His products are his products, they are not him. Let him rest.
"Howard Hughes with Lockheed (was not an aeronautical engineer) - 1930's - he was the pilot, financier and front man, not the engineer who did the designs."
I would like to add a bit more how Howard Hughes was future-oriented. He made social distancing a part of life long before 2020.
Glupson..I suppose I could write a biography about the deceased and his lady. But many here wouldnt read it they would just jump ahead and trash something they have never seen or touched or heard.. How do you defend the dead and their ideas..from closed minded dilberts? Tom
The Stein music platter interface mat is a great product. Also, another great option is the ringmat 200, only 1.8 mm thic. Lastly, the hide in the sound leather mats are a terrific value and of good quality.
"How do you defend the dead and their ideas..from closed minded dilberts?"
Easily, you separate the dead from their surviving ideas. Simply focus on ideas rather than how someone was nice, smart, or whatever. Check the threads and see who brings the name of the man into them. In this thread it was oregonpapa.
Any inventor is not his product. There must have been brilliant products invented by real jerks. It does not matter who the inventor is/was, products are fine. Why proponents of the PPT products feel an urge to tie a person and product’s preformance together is slightly puzzling. It is not surprising that other side then starts responding to exactly what proponents brought to the table and that is the name of the person and not only the invention.
Who's fighting? I'm having fun:-)))) Some people are so defensive.
Here are some real audio pioneers; Edgar Villchur, Saul Marantz, Joe Grado, Paul Klipsch, Bob Carver, Rudy Bozak, John Curl, Nelson Pass and many more. We still celebrate their inventions today.
Well designed turntables and electronic gear to not need any voodoo witchcraft to operate correctly. This stuff is designed and marketed to take advantage of the gullibility of human hearing particularly those who do not understand it. If people want to be taken advantage of that is their business. But, don't B---h at us because we point out the truth. I'm not quite sure what Glupson point out but I think his heart is in the right place:-)
In the old days manufacturers would go out of their way to prove their products performance. Edgar Villchur set up his speakers on a stage with musicians and compared them to the real thing in public. He also designed and built the most successful turntable of all time the AR XA which has been copied by numerous manufacturers. The Linn LP 12 is nothing but a fancy AR XA.
Well designed turntables and electronic gear to not need any voodoo witchcraft to operate correctly.
Vibrations are not affecting PERFECT audio system design then... The electrical noise floor of the house and room dont affect PERFECT audio system...
"Any audio design is optimal by virtue of his PERFECT design out of the box: connect it, he will work perfectly optimally WITHOUT any external means or optimizing device controls..."
You call that "science" or market gullability about alleged PERFECT engineering ?
"You have these right papa? ... Go get one, the mat, and look at the surface. Quite obviously that came off a real production line, and not someone’s basement shop. How do you think these things are manufactured?"
Do you read the posts of others, or is your super inflated ego too large to enable you to see past your nose??
I shared with you exactly what the mats were in a previous post. Tim DID NOT manufacture the mats. He only used the mats as a vehicle for his product. Scroll back up and you’ll find "The Secret."
So what you are saying is you have no clue. Look at your own post Opapa......
***** I believe ***** that the same technology was used in the mats as was used in
the PPT Total Contact contact enhancer. Judicial use of Tim Mrock’s
graphene formula under the label of the mat. And as for the mat itself, ***** I
believe that it was the same material as that used for refrigerator
magnets. ***** And yes, the mat material can be bought through Internet
suppliers. However, the graphene formula used in developing the PPT mats
died with Tim Mrock ... the genius who came up with all of these great
ideas.
PPT did not make "graphene", they incorporated graphene into a carrier/solvent. They didn't have a graphene formula, they had a formula for a carrier/binder used in the contact enhancer. They would have bought the graphene. Judicial use under the label .... sure, that is why the mat is pretty flat on the label side?? You would have had better luck claiming it was on the other side, where it was a flat but a bit bubbly on the first one, but flatter but grittier on the "upgrade". There are a ton of proper EMI absorbing mats on the market that use graphite, and ferrous particles depending on operation method. I will give you 3 reasons why they don't use graphene and cost and too difficult to manufacture are not it.
I don't know it all theaudiotweak, but quite obviously I know a lot more than you. I don't claim to know something 100%, then write "I believe" .... words matter.
A grain of salt of modesty from someone who dont have much of this virtue.... Congratulations...
Albert Einstein himself would not condemn a product about which he know nothing.... When working at his desk in Swiss patent office....
Why not imitating him?
The answer is simple you despise " audiophiles" and your fun is stirring their pot....Your blinders make for the fact that you will never recognize that no audiophile is like another, for your own sake self imposed limitations they are all one bunch of identical deduded idiots....Audiophile is a species existing only in your head....All engineers are not blind adept of scientism either.....Then i dont oppose engineers and audiophiles like small mind do....
I deduce from your prefered past-time then that your intellectual heights are not so towering above us ....
Nobody here know so much more than all of us together....We are all here to help or being helped...
«A tower of pygmies exceed any giant, and all giant need a pygmy on his shoulder sometimes to see more»-Groucho Marx
If only the claims had remained in audio but when users of these "mats" extol lower electric bills, frozen orange juice in the refrigerator, water heaters over heating , TV needing readjustment, we've left the well perhaps and entered the twilight zone.
If only the claims had remained in audio but when users of these "mats" extol lower electric bills, frozen orange juice in the refrigerator, water heaters over heating , TV needing readjustment, we’ve left the well perhaps and entered the twilight zone.
Take a piece of shungite put it in the refrigerator and look at the slowing process of aging vegetables...( you will gain a few days)
Mocking without knowing and even without even willing to try anything first hand is..... Choose your word.....
I can rectify my own gullibility after the fact if i was wrong.... But putting blinders and keeping them is not gullibility it is plain.... Choose a word....
I have no first hand knowledge of the outcome of jumping off a skyscraper and I'm not willing to try first hand but I will defer to anyone who will give it a go first hand and eat my words if they don't hit the sidewalk. Magic mats in electric panels don't cause thermostats in refrigerators and water heaters and air conditioners to suddenly malfunction. The word I choose is ..... logical.
I have no first hand knowledge of the outcome of jumping off a skyscraper and I’m not willing to try first hand
The frontier separating what we know and not know is large and grey...
Reducing it to a thin line with white in one side , black in the other is naive...
Nobody can equate a new unknown product to be only a patent absurdity because science said so.... Science can said nothing about a product a scientist has never experiment with...
Refusing to try a product to know what his effect will be is perfectly correct if you had doubts... Dont call your doubts logic and others idiots....
But equating all owners to be idiots like zombies who walk out of a plane without parachute is lunacy not logic....
By the way i never bought any of these products and reserve my opinion about people and owners....
Why not helping each other instead of stirring hate?
PPT did not make "graphene", they incorporated graphene into a carrier/solvent. They didn’t have a graphene formula, they had a formula for a carrier/binder used in the contact enhancer. They would have bought the graphene. Judicial use under the label .... sure, that is why the mat is pretty flat on the label side?? You would have had better luck claiming it was on the other side, where it was a flat but a bit bubbly on the first one, but flatter but grittier on the "upgrade". There are a ton of proper EMI absorbing mats on the market that use graphite, and ferrous particles depending on operation method. I will give you 3 reasons why they don’t use graphene and cost and too difficult to manufacture are not it.
@audio2design Here, let me give you a demonstration for how to post without the condescension. I suppose you enjoy the fights you cause on every thread, but if you really do want people to listen to you, simply saying the same things without the insults will be a lot more effective.
"As you know, the primary invention of PPT was to create a carrier/solvent formula that allowed graphene to be easily applied to other surfaces. I have my doubts, however, that this is being done on the mats, as one would expect the surface to be a lot more "uneven" if covered in a graphene paste before label application. Even if it is applied to the mats as suggested, I don’t believe this would make them more effective EMI absorbers. There are three reasons why commercial manufacturers of EMI absorbing mats don’t use graphene in this way. 1. xxxx. 2. xxxx. 3. xxxx."
So now electricity and thermostats are the unknown? I admit to not fully understanding electricity and I don't fully understand gravity but I and we do understand enough about both to say jumping off a building results in falling to the ground and thermostats in refrigerators don't go wonky even if the electricity is somehow purified by mats in a panel box. The thermostat still kicks the compressor on and off when a certain temp is reached. And it will keep your veggies fresh longer than shungite and your OJ a liquid.
"...all giant need a pygmy on his shoulder sometimes to see more»"
Groucho must have had a bad day.
Maybe "
all giant need to stand on the shoulder of a pygmy sometimes to see more»? Otherwise, it is a pygmy who will see more and giant will still see the same.
"...I will defer to anyone who will give it a go first hand and eat my words if they don't hit the sidewalk."
Be careful, you want fries with your words?...
"Two people have survived falls by not falling more than a floor. On December 2, 1979, Elvita Adams jumped from the 86th floor, only to be blown back onto a ledge on the 85th floor by a gust of wind and left with a broken hip. On April 25, 2013, a man fell from the 86th floor observation deck, but he landed alive with minor injuries on an 85th-floor ledge where security guards brought him inside and paramedics transferred him to a hospital for a psychiatric evaluation."
Maybe " all giant need to stand on the shoulder of a pygmy sometimes to see more»? Otherwise, it is a pygmy who will see more and giant will still see the same.
With a little imagination perhaps you could envision the possibility for the pygmy standing over the shoulder of the giant to SPEAK to him about what he sees?
Your proposition to correct me make no sense at all: A giant cannot stand on a pygmy without crushing him.....
My sentence have a context by the way, the context of an answering to a precise post and NOT directed to you....You cannot correct something out of a context....
I dont know if Groucho has a bad day, but glupson as usual?
it is the second correction i receive from you that is wrong in 24 hours...Please stay cautious....
"it is the second correction i receive from you that is wrong in 24 hours..."
For some reason you decided that your words do not have meanings that others assign to them and that others are wrong for not guessing what you decided a word will mean at a given point. A giant seeing is seeing. A giant hearing what a pygmy is telling him he is seeing is not seeing. It is hearing and for that, giant can be on the phone.
You are perfectly right, i am very glad to say that to you, but he was polite and that is the point.....
Politeness consist to express reservation perhaps but never rejecting outlandishly the consumers to the confine of gullibility without experimenting the product in debate...
"I dont want to GO BACK to a useless discussion with you...."
You truly do not know how to take anything but a praise. I was not trying to go into a useless discussion with you at all. I was hoping to make you aware that you are misunderstood and point out what needs work and it is not because of your language barrier. It was really meant to be a half-useless discussion. Useless for me and useful for you. Oh, well, no good deed ever goes unpunished. End of lesson....
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