Mahgister, my best to you also. I will take all the money you have. My PayPal account is........ Nevermind little differences in opinions.... You are a good soul and i want to apologize for being a bit too rude with you.... And i never means to insult you.... I thanks you for your salutations... My best from my heart, And if we differ in opinions we must remember that we are friends whathever the difference.... It is more interesting to differ sometimes...i am too passionnate and i love discussion..... |
I am red hot face.... Your soul is too generous and i know it first place....
My best to you ......... |
Coming from you with a smile.... I wil take it with a respectful thanks for your patience with me...
My best to you....
I will use paypal for the money....😁 |
For tolerance, inclusiveness and conviviality that consistently elevates the basest of discourse, I hereby nominate Mahgister for the first Audiogon Peace Prize. Thanks but i must decline, for my abuse of sarcasm, lack of humility, and too swift overeacting passion ...And too repetitive and longer post too.... A better model would be oregonpapa... Way more in self control than me, by the way... Dont get me wrong, i know myself...Qualities but also defects.... But wait a minute, forget all that , seriously is there a money prize? 😁 |
Perhaps I’ve been brainwashed? But this is exactly how I tend to think about it.
Humility in Judaism - My Jewish Learning
You are not brainwash at all.... You have been enlightened.... Thanks for this interesting article indeed.... |
Humility can be a false "virtue", the anthropological nietzschean analysis go indeed very deep in the christian Occidental soul... Humility can be a fake virtue... Indeed...
But humility cannot be erased once and for all of the hall of virtues by the wise analysis of Nietzsche...
Humility is also something coming from more deep stata than something attribute to the sole Ego...
Humility can be observed when a wise humble buddhist monk wait to give his rice that the hand was opened up before spooning the rice, he must humbly and patiently wait that the people ask first for it and open effectively their hands...
A long time ago a christian doctor in journey to Japan in a buddhist monastery in 1956, was speaking with enthusiasm about the greatness of christian Charity to the buddhist monk that effectively agreed to his affirmation of virtue greatness for charity...
But the wise monk said that the humility and patience to wait for a hand to volontarily open by itself before spooning the rice in was also a great virtue.... Because spooning the rice without this patient and humble waiting for it was useless at the end....We must learn to wait for the right moment and for the permission of those we want to help....
Nietzsche was necessary in Christian country, not so in Asian one....
Humility is great virtue after all....
With this virtue the mind can be more attentive to the world phenomenon....Humility is one of the virtue of truly great scientist after Goethe who said that we must patiently wait to see nature open itself to us....
Someone can also wait for his knowledge to be received that someone ask for it.... |
Jetter is more wise than myself... "if you act like a jerk you are one"...
Myself i think too much; if someone act like a jerk i am not sure that it is one....Perhaps it is a way to excuse myself.... 😁
Then i wrote too long post....You are right erase me....
My apology to all for my ramblings ...
Humility or pride has nothing to do with the fact that a person is talented by the way.... |
I see very limited value in this test from an organizational success standpoint. Ultimate question are there to be applied in ourself for ourself....i think jetter was proposing a self reflective moment to you and to me and to all...You missed the point.... I am pretty sure jetter was not thinking about an organizational standpoint and waiting for his test to be scored by a team of manager....😁 I would rather work with a total jerk who gets things done and is reliable versus someone who is fun and amiable and totally useless. Like often here you use a "sophism" , your alternative is a fake one Impliying a vicious circle... 1-All Jerks will make anything to do the work done...By all means... 2- there is a job to be done... 3- we need a jerk to be sure the job will be done... The problem here is that anyone fun and amiable other than a jerk can also do the job...The conclusion you arrived at is already contained in your premises... It is called a vicious circle.... But you have decided that the jerk beat all amiable and fun already... Your back tought is simple.... The job must be done at any cost.....Even at a human cost.... Collateral damage it is called...Oregonpapa here was this collateral damage of your "expertise".... You don’t treat someone with respect you know nothing about because you have nothing to respect This one explain all...Basic human consideration ask for the respect of any human being, even hydrocephalus one over any "job" asking to be done...Ask your father if he waited your maturity for giving you respect? Or does he wait til "job" done? Respect is being REAL when it is not a money of exhange, it is a basic trust between human ... Basic respect must be spontaneous and all time for all people...I must respect you without waiting for anything.... I tried, but it was difficult i am not perfect like you are not either....I tend to disrespect some attitude... It is my defect and own fault.... I apologize for that... What are we trying to achieve here? The best sound. Period. What that is will be different for everyone, but the goal is the same. The best sound. Period again for emphasis. The "jerk" who is right, is going to get you to the goal of the best sound if you listen. The amiable wrong person is not.
Everyone wants to blame the jerk who is right, because it is easier than blaming themselves for taking the advice of the amiable person who was wrong. The amiable person doesn’t reveal our own inadequacies, the jerk does. There is no "job" to be done here.... It is an audiophile thread.... People partake experiences and know perfectly well that the ABSOLUTE GOOD sound dont exist in any normal room and any normal gear.... Only optimal S.Q. in some level that they all learn with their own differences and histories in audio... Then the fallacy of your reasoning excusing yourself to be rude because of a "job" that must be done is complete bullshit... Sorry to say so..... Your last words are something.... You are right and totally wrong at the same times... You are right the difficult person confront us.... It is a lesson to learn about ourself and you are right... But you are totally wrong thinking this is your personal mission to enlighten all people here at all cost only by ourself... But your post imply that... Go back to the jetter test now you are ready to pass it....You know that it is not a manager test now.... But a mirror where each of us MUST glance.... I apologize to you because i have been rude myself with you,.... But i am not perfect and i have difficulties when i see victims imaginary one and real one... My best to you..... |
Challenging assertions made with limited facts is not attacking people. i will correct your distorted translation of event.... Challenging people experience and testimonies which are "limited facts", yes, but they are anyway facts, with no experience with the product whatsoever, even no knowledge at all about the content of this product, is not challenging but criticizing people with no facts at all... Not even limited one.... Then bashing someone room, speakers, and integrity after that to go on with the ridiculizing of the same product deconsider any form of seriousness... Real Knowledge is always based on discerning facts. Try that yourself.... |
You are not passionate you are dogmatic and lazy and too interested in hearing yourself talk to listen to what anyone else says. That’s why you repeat the same rambling monologue over and over. I have never "attacked" analog lovers only the dogmatic idea it is "superior" not just preferable to them personally. If you are stuck in the mindset it is technically superior that is out of ignorance willful or otherwise. That hires digital can copy analog perfectly should make this obvious. I will make the hypothesis that you are right and that i was wrong about that and about analog lover... And i will suppose that like you said you never accuse them to be ignorant...Anyway you even cannot repeat my argument about timbre perception in relation to mic recording and dont even understand them or dont want to .... But think now about the content of your post just here... It lack some other information...no? Answering my post you truncate it of some information.... Remember, you bashed indisciminately also all audiophiles and particularly those who add "tweaks" to their system ? Then you certainly attack tweakers audiophile in mass in the other thread with mijostyn laughing about their ignorance and "snake oil" products and here you attacked oregonpapa....Remember? Even if you may or may be not right about me, and about turntable " ignorant", or not so, analog lover you cannot erase completely all reality written here.... I am not perfect, but you are certainly not more perfect than me.... Take the " harsh" medecine you wanted to offer to others and quit the arguing... I will mute myself also.... |
I remember you from my first coming here.... You were always kind and a true gentleman....
My creation almost " nutty" sometimes were the fruit of my lack of money to afford my dream.... Lukily i succeed to a point.... I am no more frustrated , we are all happy when the natural "Timbre" and "imaging" are there coming from non existent speakers...
My deepest respect.... And thanks for the invitation....
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I am passionate and i cannot stand those who attacked group of people bashing them with their simplification...
You did it for analog lovers...
You did it for Tweaks audiophile you despised...
But it was impossible for me to read your arrogant rejection of the room, speakers, products and even the personality of such a gentleman like oregonpapa...Like you said truth ask for being harsh then taste your own medecine...😁
Accusing me of anything is bad faith i only answered, not so much to your falsehood but to your collective accusations of ignorance against those 2 groups of people and against oregonpapa in particular...
I can admit myself being wrong,i proved it in the past; you are not able of that and you have proved it beyond doubts...
Instead of thinking about that you come back here attaking who? oregonpapa.....It is one of the first person who speak to me here almost 2 years ago, and it is a gentle soul loving music....
«The wise look itself in a mirror »-Anonymus Smith
«Standing before truth ask for a complete bareness rendition of our intelligence and a stripping of our knowledge»- Anonymus Smith |
There are exceptions such as personality disorders particularly of the antisocial type of which there are several examples in this forum. They confuse intelligence with arrogance. You are a perfect example of this confusion.
Yes, it was harsh. It was meant to be. Just to rectify your diagnostic, antisocial personality are unable to empathize... They prefer their"logic"...Their "logic" is the only one... Using so called scientific fact, like a sound theorem in signals theory, to bash a group of people is not science it is symptom of absence of empathy and judgement and ignorance about all the complex chain of the recording events and the phenomena of timbre...Accusing a musician with 45 years of working in studio of lying in place of an argument is nor science nor logic.... Making the same harsh comments about someone who pretend to nothing except to be amazed by the products effects on his system in a thread about them, bashing systematically, his room, his speakers, his products and pretending that he was an pretentious ignorant.... This is a blatent lack of empathy, not only lack of the knowledge about the product and this time with no excuse, not even a theorem, it is then a probable evidence of antisocial characteristic, if not, a stupidity without redemption or in the least case an eyesight with straight blinders .... For your own intelligence mark and remark, you make smile all people here... Are you a children in a school to boast about your quality? You are not antisocial yourself i dont think so, just the average dude conditioned by his straight education to admire anyone who pretend to "objective science’ without being able to differentiate the 2, science has nothing to do with "scientism".... I am average myself, but i read 4,000 books about science, and philosophy, linguistic, mathematics etc and i can make the difference between true scientist and "scientist" pretender.... Read a bit more it will help.... You will learn for example that acoustical timbre phenomenon is not "a sujective taste and colors " added to the so called " real" information in bits.... 😁 By the way accusing all people who were protesting here against this abuse to be sociopaths confusing intelligence with arrogance is itself a so stupid psychological judgement that, even for me trying to conclude that you are not stupid is very difficult.... I cannot....Help me... By the way there is a thing called probability.... Sociopath constitute a minority in population then your reasoning that all people here in this thread protesting injustice here ( 4 or five have already manifest themselves) against the harshness of one, all those being are sociopaths if i read you, this is a judgement way improbable and not very wise.... The contrary is more probable... |
It is difficult to do everything better than previous engineering.
Just my vintage Sansui AU 7700 is so good replacing it make no sense... Way more rewarding to recreate acoustic... My best to you.... |
If they are going to act like audiophile "gods" Now you attributed a quality that Oregonpapa never attributed to himself, he is just an audio enthusiast who stumble on a probably good product then why so desperate unjust attacks? Oregonpapa by the way is more modest than i am....I will take the attack on myself....😁 But after discussing with audiodesign i discover being myself almost modest.... HOWEVER, some (the usual suspects), attacked me personally Now attacking all people for being satisfied customers and audiophile, you are the victim? think about that: You affirm to someone you dont know, who is friendly and polite always, that the product he bought is trash, his room is trash, his speakers are trash, and you accuse him of boasting himself being an audiophile god? That speak volume about your character.... Think about that..... |
Toss a couple of these refrigerator mats on the doors of your Tesla and get 200 more miles per charge. why so much hate? I dont partake at all millercarbon political ideas....Is it necessary to bash anything he touch to express hate? I cannot adress all injust attack by stupidity....Are we human or idiot for life? It seems that it is normal in this world..... |
You will note my initial comments were purely about the product, and what it would or could do, and the apparent technical capabilities of the company. surely you are joking? The product is such that no one here can know how it work....The formula is unknown... And you are a infaillible "genius" speaking only about secondary things not related to this formula and you called that intelligent criticism without having the product and no idea which is in it? Criticizing the support of the product to be a refrigerator magnetic mat is an argument? |
I never said whether it had 2, 3, 4, or 10 tweeters, I said it had bad integration of the two tweeters. The rear tweeter is not integrated. The front two are ....or are supposed to be. However, what resulted was a bit of a disaster.
You begin your coming in this thread by doubting ALL testimonies it is ok.... But you were NEVER interested by this product anyway save for bashing the customers who bought them.... You choose one customer system and try to demolish it by accusing the room to be unable to be good... After that you tried to trash the speakers of one owner.... WHY? |
Intelligence does not confer expertise, but it can often breed unwarranted confidence.
Wise line....I cannot refrain to repeat it....I hope you do the same for yourself.... |
Odds on bet is that I have a significantly higher IQ than you do. Are you serious? How do you call someone using this way of speaking in a discussion? I will not say the word myself..... |
The problem many people do not or refuse to understand is that just because they hear a difference does not mean that there actually is one.
What you think you hear is subject to the way you are thinking and feeling at the time which is subject to a plethora of influences and how you feel about them. Is this a repeating groove bump in a vinyl called mijostyn brain? Your accusation make sense for a SINGULAR hearing test about ONE tweak..... How do you explain by being hallucinatory, or by placebo effect, 2 years of CONTINUOUS improvements, with trials and errors in experiments with acoustical devices, electrical grid devices and mechanical devices listend to by me and my family? Collective audio hallucination or real improvements? What occam razor may say if you are able to think? Do you really think that man can deceive not only itself but others also through a set of experiments giving incremental weekly positive improvement after another culminating in a complete transformation of his audio system for 2 years ? I dont give a damn about your lack of logical thinking and your unreasonnable use of the placebo excuse to justify your own passive attitude towards listening experiments and your faith in ready made costly consumerist solutions, BUT i dont like your supposition about people abusing others....Especially when someone boast about a multi thousand equalizer toy/tool for the solution to acoustical problems...... This is not placebo this is ignorance....Even about what an equalizer can usefully really do or cannot do at all..... «Most skeptics deceive themselves "believing" they doubt»-Groucho Marx logician |
The best thing to do in a terrible room is a near field system if the person will go with it. Just a remark coming from my experience... I already have a small room 13 feet almost square... Near listening help in a bad room in the sense that it "seems" a little less worst and it is in some measure...The direct sound coming from the speakers help.... Thats all.... My acoustical experiment worked improving my near listening (3 feet) also... Then EVEN in near listening a room must be treated and under control acoustically... It is a myth that with near listening you are free to let your room untouched...In a non treated room, even in near listening the "timbre" experience will not be so natural and the imaging not so good.... It is my experience.... By the way i never pretended to have more experience than you for example in using an equalizer... I dont doubt your expertise with that and will ask you help when i will need to... But i have also my experience and some unusual devices or materials did unexpected things for me...I dont want to be trusted on words but i dont want to be mocked either....Thats all.... |
Mahgister you are totally right that you do not have to spend a fortune to have a brilliant system and you can certainly improve the experience with proper acoustic management. But it is not rocket science and you do not have to spend a fortune doing it either. You already know that even if the hallograph experience interested me for example i NEVER recommend to people to buy costly tweaks at all...Not because they cannot work, to know that, we must experiment, but because they are too costly sometimes for what they give or too easy to replicate at no cost.... I recommend to experiment ourselves...creativity and partaking creativity is my business not selling costly products... I did it and i dont need to buy anything... I just dont like when someone attack many satisfied customers because of this purchase with only no sound reason except an alleged kowledge.... For example i created my room tuner after experimenting with the idea behind the "Argent roomlens" product which is sold more than one thousand dollars... I recreated it in few hours and probably improve it....I recommend to people to experiment with it not to spend money... All consumerism and all market sells half truths... The truth is : dont upgrade before knowing what your system can really do, working at his best potential level when it is rightfully embedded in these 3 dimensions: mechanical, electrical and acoustical.... Is it not simple? Doing that is possible without buying anything costly... It is my experience.... And i dont pretend to have the best audio system at all.... Just enough good to make for me the idea to upgrade useless.... My best to you .... |
Yes, expectations shape everything, but so do physics. It’s hard to differentiate the two, and almost completely irrelevant to do so if you’re only working on a single system built for your own two ears. Try things and choose what sounds better is a pretty simple decision rule and doesn’t require anything but experimentation and listening. Thanks for your interesting posts and experience.... i am happy to read other post than attack against people experience or gear.... Personally i never tried to prove anything, except for myself to give a better audio experience....Only listenings experiments could do it for me... it is not necessary to wait for upgrade money nor to a scientific explanation that are not always easy to find in specific case anyway to begin experimenting and listening.... I think it would be pretty absurd to invoke expectation bias for being the ONLY explanation about my improved audio system for example by my homemade devices controls creation...In some case with some device yes....we deceive ourself sometimes, i experience that also...But in many case not at all... Because the audible effect is too large and too precise to be negated or doubted.... Expectation bias are well suit to explain for a single experiment and a single action, not so well to explain a continuous incremental improvement each week with some experiments for 2 years and this despite continous judgement errors also... Any possible experiment need some feed back verification and corrections to eliminate biases or bad choices... It will be like accusing someone to hallucinate over 2 years, controlling his own mind like a yogi in a positive thinking act that would work nevermind what he will add to his audio system... I am not that powerful in my expectation will power conscious or not....I need different materials and some varied devices to change the working of my system for the better...Biases will not do for 2 years... Alas! And all experiments are not all positives, experiments in listening is a guided feedback in installation devices... It is the way and context which make me able to imagine and create improvement by changing conditions and materials and eliminate my biases or correcting them... Only limited narrow mind that never experience by themselves invoke "placebo" or "expectation bias" to explain anything they dont like and in whatever context....There is even some that pretend to be able to judge with only a look...Clever people? or deluded one ? make your choice, mine is made.... Expectation bias explanation has not a so broad back and so great power so to speak to explain everything and more... Sometimes if you put shungite rock on top of an already warm sounding amplifier you must attribute the sudden increased sound compression to the minerals you just put there and not to your power of imagination....It is easy to repeat this experience and test it with adding a piece of quartz that will have the opposite effect.....I call that a little experiment, no bias here... Except in the mind of those who prefer to keep their blinders and going on calling "placebo" "hallucination" or expectation bias anything they dont like or believe in....Myself i dont believe i only try....The only science that matters is the science of today working for tomorrow...Not scientist dogmas.... Science is complex interpenetration of varied fields studying complex phenomena... The "timbre" phenomenon for example for the description of his modelling factors need how many specific disciplinary concepts to be understood? Judging then the timbre factor a subjective colored bias is ridiculous.... Someone supposed to be a scientist here precisely did that.... Then when you dont like a donkey and you want to sell it your bias is that the donkey dont walk with enough energy the donkey indeed had his own bias and you dont like it..... 😁 Bias are always there anyway, we are not in the obligation to stay with only them we can try something else.... My best to you.... |
I am OK with your rules...but i dont buy any tweaks and i dont need to....
But i was desperate some 3 years ago....
My gear was fine but i was not in love with my system...
I begins to experiment, with vibrations controls, electrical grid noise experiment, and acoustic....
In 2 years with experiments each weeks i create some controversials devices but they all worked for me at a variable level....
My last one is a room tuner....
I am very proud of my device: in particular my grid of linked and modified Schumann generators, my "Golden plate" and my last one i like it a lot... The Helmholtz-Fibonacci organ, 3 set of 3 bricks with 3 plumber copper pipes adjusted in lenght with the golden ratio(1.6)
Cost peanuts and clean the sound across the frequencies range....2 sets of pipes are chosen relatively near one another in lenght the last set is more afar with these 2...
One set behind my 2 listening positions, and one set laterally located a few feet near the speakers...
My ideas are free to experiment with....Save for the clowns that will say that they dont need to verify by experimenting just to look at is enough....😁
My best to you.... |
You are right it takes me 5 years to buy the right components...
But it is more difficult to learn how to embed the system than to buy the right one...
It is the reason why most people want to upgrade unsatisfied without even knowing what their system can do at his peak potential working...
I know it takes me many years to know how sound my own system.....Installation is the key....
My greatest discovery is that it is not necessary to buy costly tweaks either.... You can create them....
i sell creativity not products or design upgrade....
My best to you..... |
Buy the wrong stuff and no amount of setup will ever make it right. When i spoke about embeddings controls i dont spoke about miracles against a sound engineering design for sure.... Bad or too cheap design is without redemption.... BUT it is relatively easy to buy a very good amplifier for low price.... My Sansui AU 7700 was one of the best in his times, today it is only good but it is enough for me....I buy another one in case....😁 For speakers i buy Mission Cyrus 781 the top of Mission speakers but it is not here also the best in the world, only good one, but so good i dont need subwoofer... The most difficult part was to look for a very good DAC at low price... The NOs battery Dac of Christophe Mariac Starting Point Systems on Ebay with minimal design and only one TDA 1543 chip is for me perfect.... Not the best by damn good reason BUT.... I pay on a bid 20 dollars new....And i cannot criticize it on any count: timbre, imaging, soundstage, dynamic....Not the best byt so damn good upgrading is very costly.... To the best that i know what i must pay for an upgrade is : At least 12,000 buck Harbeth Speakers, Berning Zotl amplifier , Denafrips dac.... But my actual well embed only good system is so good because of the way it is under control in the mechanical aspect, the electrical grid not too noisy, and the acoustical taken care of, that upgrading is not very tempting... Take a vibraphone and a piano like in Sun Ra and Walt Dickerson magnificent cd "Visions"... Listen to the distinctive timbre of the piano notes and vibraphone notes, listen for the changing aural hues of each tone of vibraphone and the pulsating decay of the note... Listen to the critical bass notes of the piano.... Are the 2 instruments in the room? do they sound natural? is the sound come from the speakers? If they are in the room, with natural timbre very distinctive and no sound coming from the speakers, i call that an audiophile experience... There is better audiophile experience for sure, give me the three components i name above and it will be better.... But it will not trash my actual sound, only improve it because my actual audio system is relatively rightfully embed and good.... My best to you.... |
BINGO!!! I learn that by myself for the last 2 years with listening experiments.... I smile at any costly gear review... Electronic design is mature for the last 60 years.... It is installation of the system knowledge that is lacking for most people not the choice of their speakers or amplifier.... All can have a very good hi-fi experience if they learn how to install their system...The best there is cost money for sure....But the diminishing return laws exist.... I dont pretend my system to be the best at all, but it gives me the best it can give, yes....Better system if badly embedded will not be better anyway.... |
I think people with less elaborate systems are constantly looking for inexpensive ways to improve their systems and fall pray to marketing hype. I will remind Mijostyn that i bought no tweaks i create my own... And i know that a relatively good Hi-Fi experience dont have to be costly by my experience . Others more gullible than me can read costly gear reviews...I know first hand that good gear is an important factor but secondary to the way we must take care of the mechanical electrical and acoustical embeddings .... It is also some gullible consumers of some COSTLY solutions that fall for the marketing hype....Not only Tweakers.... A costly equalizer is not superior to an hallograph because it is you that have bought it... Marketting hype reproach are valuable not only for tweaks it is also valuable when all people are condtioned to upgrade.... But it is not this upgrading process that is KEY to audio it is HOW to embed the system we already own... The key to audio with ANY system at ANY price,is controlling the mechanical vibrations and resonance problem, controlling the high moise floor of the house and of the system, and controlling the acoustical aspects of the room....NOTHING ELSE... Bashing other speakers or room without even having listened to it has no excuse...... No need to hear to judge adequately has no sense ....Like Mijostyn proove it judging Toole room at first sitght.... I am sad that people are willing to go stupid instead of admitting simple evidence: turntable lovers are not all fool, tweakers are not all stupid, and Hi-fi dont cost necessarily big money....We cannot judge in general without experiencing a system in his room eespecially if we want to correct it........ |
By the way there exist too much hate in the forum....
Arguments ONLY have value...
I hate nobody here and speak to ANYONE....
But some go on hating each other for years...
Only arguments make sense.... Nothing else.... |
And this is specifically w.r.t. the Legacy III’s which were somewhat average at the time and have significant issues with the integration of the two different technology tweeters, and would not be, as Dr. Toole mentions above"neutral". They have a significant anomaly where the two speakers crossover.
You drown the cat of your past post all about reflections, willing to bash oregonpapa... Now you switch about the particular speakers choice of Toole....To excuse his defence of reflections use....Even if the room of oregonpapa is smaller then it is there more easy to use reflections than in the Toole room ... Forgetting about his particular view of the positive use of reflections especially in small room like Oregonpapa one...You said that Oregonpapa has too much reflections and now his speakers are trash and this is the main point.... All reflections are good in Toole room not on oregonpapa room.... And now the remark of Toole made sense only with this Mirage speakers.... All others kind of speakers of the past decades, dixit audiodesign distorting Toole article, are trash.... If we analyse after reading the post of Quixote the post of Sancho Panza(mijostyn) the cat ressuscitate:
Golly, that is an awful room, awful loudspeakers too. It seems that Dr Toole has a lot of knowledge but terrible ears or maybe he does not earn enough in his profession to be able to afford the good stuff and I am not saying that in a bad way, it is true for a lot of us. We do the best that we can.
Except audiodesign, all people, turntables owners, tweakers, Even Toole, are not on the road and lack knoweledge... All that from these 2 who speak ill against all these people, turntables owners, tweakers, pretending science...It is almost all audiophiles... 😊 No acoustician by the way are on the same page exactly about small room treatment.... It is an art when applied not a pure science.... |
- No front wall reflection control
- No first reflection control
- The reflections off the glass table
- The reflective equipment between the speakers
- The lack of symmetry due to the windows on one side, and the wall/records on the other side
- The blinds (that will rattle)
- The reflective pictures on the wall
- The reflective (curio/china cabinet?) in one corner behind the speakers, but not the other You description to bash the experience of oregonpapa is not fair... Try to apply this analysis to the room picture in this article.... This is the room of Floyd Toole, one of the great acoustician in the world... Almost all you just said apply to HIS room pictured here... Wrote to him that he is an idiot in acoustic.... Try that with him.... 😁 https://www.audioholics.com/room-acoustics/room-reflections-human-adaptation I dont say that Toole is right about the positive use of reflections i only say that Acoustic of room is NOT what you think it is.... Then before judging other pick a mirror and think about reflections in another way.... i am sorry to be harsh.....😊 |
Any rethoric coming from you will never change the fact that almost ALL customers buying these products were satisfied... Then without any means nor desire to verify by yourself, except suggestion, supposition, and sophism, you insinuate that all the buyers communicating in these threads suffers collective hypnosis or collective placebo effect.... Like turntable owners suffering from deluded ignorance of a theorem... You stir a pot of yours that is very revealing of you....Not of the product that i never bought myself anyway.... But i prefer to trust people testimonies than "deductions" around a void of experience.... let alone measure it to show effectiveness How in the hell do you measure for example the effect of a piece shungite compressing the sound when put on an amplifier? With an apparatus devised by your genius? Try your ears.... I dont doubt that a scientific explanation of these fact exist by the way, but i dont know it myself and i doubt that you know it.... Anyway you will not even try, you only trust a few equations written in a book you learned longtime ago....But reality dont hide behind few equations...It is only a veil or some glass man put in front of his eyes to use nature...Useful indeed but it is not reality, some equations are only arrangement in the mariage of man and reality.... Your attitude is to science what religion is to spirituality more a burden than wings.... «My equations are not your tamed dogs but dragons» An anonymus mathematician to an anonymus engineer «Why dont you have any mathematical books in your house asked a journalist to Alexander Grothendieck? I never read mathematical books, i wrote them...» -Real anecdote «Where these equations nobody could even dream about comes from, ask Geoffrey Hardy to Ramanujan ? From the goddess Namagiri Thayar in my dreams answered the greatest mathematician since Archimedes and Gauss... |
Peace, and enjoy the music.
Thanks and my salutations
rixthetrick
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In an audio thread about products: 1-When facing a product there is the neutrality of those who tough curious CANNOT have an opinion like myself because i never use it.... 2-There is the folks that use the product and are very happy... 3- Those who have use it but have discontent or contrary impressions than the satisfied customers...And they can and must speak about their experiencebecause they have ONE.... 4- and those that everybody will qualify "jerks" who without any experience of the product wil throw hate or suspicion without any other motivation than their own bile expression in a subtle or not so subtle way... I dont see any other attitude between adults on an audio forum.... |
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cal3713 If you want a book on any subject to help you just send me a mail.... i may be able to help also.... Tomic601 will help you with music.... 😊 |
Sorry to hear that
@cal3713
I wish you the best to come....
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I was hoping to make you aware that you are misunderstood and point out what needs work and it is not because of your language barrier. If you want to help me feel right to do it....Like i said i prefer to stay friends with all people, except those who bash group of people without reason.... it does seem a bit silly, if not desperate, to claim that one cannot make an opinion, or form an expectation, about something without experiencing it her/himself first. Anybody can form an opinion WITHOUT trying a product... and everybody MUST do it...No need to experience anything to know what suit ourself....This is common sense.... NO ONE can contradict that.... Why do you suppose the opposite? But entering a thread to bash not only the product but also those who had bought it and speak about it with satisfaction is not only rude it is disrespect or stupidity....Especially if we have never try it....expressing doubts is ok, sarcastically depreciating an unusual audio product without trying it first has no meaning and is disrespectful........ Is it too complicate to understand? Myself i dont feel the need to buy anything but i dont feel the right to say that my own creation are superior for example....I am not stupid, not rude, and i have no idea of this product....muting ourself when we dont know is wise.... |
Einstein did not suffer fools You are perfectly right, i am very glad to say that to you, but he was polite and that is the point..... Politeness consist to express reservation perhaps but never rejecting outlandishly the consumers to the confine of gullibility without experimenting the product in debate... |
Glupson keep the prize....
If you dont know how to read a simple metaphor about the fact that sometimes giants need a pygmy.... I cannot do better...
I dont want to GO BACK to a useless discussion with you....It seems you want...
I prefer to stay friends..... |
Maybe " all giant need to stand on the shoulder of a pygmy sometimes to see more»? Otherwise, it is a pygmy who will see more and giant will still see the same. With a little imagination perhaps you could envision the possibility for the pygmy standing over the shoulder of the giant to SPEAK to him about what he sees? Your proposition to correct me make no sense at all: A giant cannot stand on a pygmy without crushing him..... My sentence have a context by the way, the context of an answering to a precise post and NOT directed to you....You cannot correct something out of a context.... I dont know if Groucho has a bad day, but glupson as usual? it is the second correction i receive from you that is wrong in 24 hours...Please stay cautious.... |
I have no first hand knowledge of the outcome of jumping off a skyscraper and I’m not willing to try first hand The frontier separating what we know and not know is large and grey... Reducing it to a thin line with white in one side , black in the other is naive... Nobody can equate a new unknown product to be only a patent absurdity because science said so.... Science can said nothing about a product a scientist has never experiment with... Refusing to try a product to know what his effect will be is perfectly correct if you had doubts... Dont call your doubts logic and others idiots.... But equating all owners to be idiots like zombies who walk out of a plane without parachute is lunacy not logic.... By the way i never bought any of these products and reserve my opinion about people and owners.... Why not helping each other instead of stirring hate? |
If only the claims had remained in audio but when users of these "mats" extol lower electric bills, frozen orange juice in the refrigerator, water heaters over heating , TV needing readjustment, we’ve left the well perhaps and entered the twilight zone. Take a piece of shungite put it in the refrigerator and look at the slowing process of aging vegetables...( you will gain a few days) Mocking without knowing and even without even willing to try anything first hand is..... Choose your word..... I can rectify my own gullibility after the fact if i was wrong.... But putting blinders and keeping them is not gullibility it is plain.... Choose a word.... |
"I believe" .... words matter. A grain of salt of modesty from someone who dont have much of this virtue.... Congratulations... Albert Einstein himself would not condemn a product about which he know nothing.... When working at his desk in Swiss patent office.... Why not imitating him? The answer is simple you despise " audiophiles" and your fun is stirring their pot....Your blinders make for the fact that you will never recognize that no audiophile is like another, for your own sake self imposed limitations they are all one bunch of identical deduded idiots....Audiophile is a species existing only in your head....All engineers are not blind adept of scientism either.....Then i dont oppose engineers and audiophiles like small mind do.... I deduce from your prefered past-time then that your intellectual heights are not so towering above us .... Nobody here know so much more than all of us together....We are all here to help or being helped... «A tower of pygmies exceed any giant, and all giant need a pygmy on his shoulder sometimes to see more»-Groucho Marx |
Well designed turntables and electronic gear to not need any voodoo witchcraft to operate correctly. Vibrations are not affecting PERFECT audio system design then... The electrical noise floor of the house and room dont affect PERFECT audio system... "Any audio design is optimal by virtue of his PERFECT design out of the box: connect it, he will work perfectly optimally WITHOUT any external means or optimizing device controls..." You call that "science" or market gullability about alleged PERFECT engineering ? Myself i chose the second case.... |
You has soften your tune ....
Now analog love is no more ignorance only a taste....It is noted...We are then on the same tolerant side.... Thanks and welcome...
But now it is bashing products club without trying them... Is it more satisfying? |
The only effect it has is on the minds of the people who were foolish enough to spend money on it. Such is the mythology of audiophilia nervosa. I understand Pfizer is researching a drug for this rather common condition. I gave them Audiogons web address as a source for study subjects. I dont understand WHY you go on insulting a group of people, not one but many ? it is not "turntable ignorant crowd" this time like for some other, for you it is "ignorant tweakers".... I dont understand WHY you exclude yourself from this disease "audiophilia nervosa" on what basis ? I dont understand WHY you can decide by yourself what is right or wrong about a product and going through many threads where you dont participate in a positive way bashing all others active positive participants, because they bought, not your "equalizer" audio club reference gear, but another product? I am pretty sure you dont work in psychology....For audio matters listening too much to some here, and in your "club" probably, who dont even understand what timbre concept is, apart from being "a colored warm subjective illusory" perception is not the right things to do i think.... I dont understand; but wait a minute, you give yourself an explanation in another "historical" post: Well folks, some of us are gifted and can tell by looking at some things that they are absolutely not suited for the suggested purpose.
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