I owned the Pass XP-15 for many years and have been enjoying the XP-27 for several. I dont find the difference between 15 and the 27 to manifest through different loading. The 27 sounds different (and a little better) at all settings. Like Lewn, I have never heard a big difference between 100 ohm and 47 kohm loads on LOMC carts. Like ssg308 reports, big differences in character can be discerned with different gain settings. My conclusions are that the Pass phono preamps can handle RFI generated by LOMC quite nicely.
Hoping that ssg308 enjoys the Unami Red.
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I think SSG is saying he hears a big difference between 47K ohms load and any value equal to or less than 1000 ohms, where 47K sounds bad to his ears. I didn’t see where he talked about gain per se. So Karl, how do your Pass phono stages sound when you load LOMC cartridges at 47K ohms? And which cartridges have you tried?
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@lewm yes ssir you are correct, gain stays fixed at 67db and to clarify 47k sounds overdrived that manifests it self as a lot of bass weak mid and high non existing. 1k sounds the best and any lower resistance is a significant drop in performance.
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I'm sure some of this is dependent on listening preferences and other system components. I have used Pass Labs phono pre's on Lyra (Atlas, Etna SL, Delos), Koetsu RSP, SoundSmith (Zephyr Star, Sussurro, Hyperion), ZYX (Yatra) and Denon 103R (Zu). The most sensitive to loading are the SoundSmith MIs. They loose upper frequency presence with resistive values below 500 ohms. I prefer them at 47 Kohm. The Lyra and Koetsu sound the same between 100 ohms and 47 Kohm. So I run Lyra, Koetsu and SoundSmith at 47 Kohm.
@ssg308 What preamp are you using?
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@karl_desch XP-12 and XP-17, I was thinking to upgrade to XP-32 if I want to run second TT trough XP-15 but that's in future for now I want to make my existing system stabile
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Just wanted to make sure that they were playing together nicely. So an XP-12/17 combo is perfect!
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@karl_desch oh my o my .... :) that thing is so precisely matched, system is truly stable and NEUTRAL! the only variable is my TT and my obsession in getting the best sound without letting my kidneys go... I was about to use only XP 12 to drive my Threshold S550e but I'm glad I got Pass x250.8 that ting throw another dimension to the room. So said that my system detects lies .... so if cartridge or vinyl pretend to sound good system immediately calls its BS :)
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Nice! I love my XP-22/27 combo as well for their truth telling. I bet the 12/17 combo is 95% of what I get with the fancy schmancy seperate power supply versions.
All this being said, I'm still surprised that the Hana-Pass combo is so sensitive to loading.
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@karl_desch I'm hoping that Red will be acting more playable will see I'll. keep you posted Monday since I'm swapping ML for Red these weekend
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I have a Hana ML, which I've had for a few years and used in OL Silver and now The Encounter, loaded - as always - at 47k (well, unloaded). And it sounds fantastic.
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Same here. I've had the cartridge several years and really can't complain. Its effortless with everything I throw at it.
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@lewm
well since I wrote the question I changed my ML for Unami Red.
It is still new so I load it at 1000ohms and it sounds great, how ever I did not try to load it 47k yet. I let it running for about maybe 100 hours and later I'll try to lad 47k. Well now I have bigger problem, my gain is set to 67db and my quiet XP17 does generate a little hiss at volume about 70+ db, I can live with that, however I'm picking up some static noise and for now I have no idea where it comes from, not from phono stage, it seam like it happening between the cartridge and single post connectors that are plugged in to XP17. when you unplug them form phono stage you left with hiss form XP17 once you plug it back you hear static noise. Kills me!
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If you hear static when playing music, get some static spray. I clean my equipment - especially in the dry, winter months - with Nordost's ECO spray, but I bet a supermarket static spray for clothes might be a decent alternative.
Winter's dry here in the DC area (and Connecticut, where I'm from, but I don't know if you're in a dry area that causes static. Is static normal for you to experience in your home during winter months ?
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@atmasphere
Ralph, I just want to thank you for all your input, especially around cartridge loading. There is so much wrong information floating around.
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@gbmcleod
no , you can hear static when record is not playing, and I'm in Chicago so relatively humid place
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Okay.
Have you had any luck with the suggestions from the board?
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@ssg308 Its a good idea to make sure the arm and cartridge are compatible before you play with loading. If the arm can't track the cartridge properly because the mechanical resonance of the two it outside the ideal window, loading really won't help things.
Use this calculator to sort things out:
tonearm/cartridge compliance calculator
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@atmasphere
It looks like correlation arm/cartridge is spot on, static is generated somewhere between cartridge and Preamp I can't figure out if its is inner generated or pick from some kind of electric fields generated by what I suspect TV hanging above.
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SSG, when you say you hear hiss at “above 70db”, are you talking Soind Pressure Level (SPL) or voltage? If SPL, bow are you measuring that? 70 db SPL at the listener position is not very loud. Anyway, hiss when you crank the volume control on a solid state preamplifier is usually a sign it’s gain is inadequate for the input signal voltage OR RFI.
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static is generated somewhere between cartridge and Preamp I can't figure out if its is inner generated or pick from some kind of electric fields generated by what I suspect TV hanging above.
@ssg308 By static do you mean a crackling sound? One cause of this is a platter pad that has a high tendency to produce static electricity, such as one made from felt (which should only be used for DJ use and not in a home stereo as they have no sonic benefit).
You might also have a bad ground; a bad connection, the platter not grounded or the arm not grounded.
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Normal line noise sounds like low background noise that you can hear when switching from let say CD input to Phono, and I get that one but when table is connected to preamp normal line noice is covered with slightly higher pitch static like sound.
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