Pass XP-17 and Hana ML loading question

static is generated somewhere between cartridge and Preamp I can't figure out if its is inner generated or pick from some kind of electric fields generated by what I suspect TV hanging above.

@ssg308 By static do you mean a crackling sound? One cause of this is a platter pad that has a high tendency to produce static electricity, such as one made from felt (which should only be used for DJ use and not in a home stereo as they have no sonic benefit).

You might also have a bad ground; a bad connection, the platter not grounded or the arm not grounded.

@ssg308 Its a good idea to make sure the arm and cartridge are compatible before you play with loading. If the arm can't track the cartridge properly because the mechanical resonance of the two it outside the ideal window, loading really won't help things.

Use this calculator to sort things out:

tonearm/cartridge compliance calculator

Same here. I've had the cartridge several years and really can't complain. Its effortless with everything I throw at it. 

@ssg308 I have teh ML in a Technics SL1200G arm at the moment and it works fine. Plug and play with my preamp; no need to mess with loading. One of my employees has the ML in a Triplanar and it works fine in that too.

 Ok I find it weird at list, I will work with that again, how I have more reasons than ever since I got the Unami Red and I will be comparing it with the ML on the same preamp. Let me know what you think about the ML sound at the 47K load, it seam to me like distortion, overload of bass with the fuzzy bluer in low mis range frequencies I mean around 1KHz. When I drop the load on my ML down to 1KOhm all goes great also all loads 1k and below works great. Gain I have set up at 67db 

@ssg308 When the cartridge generates RFI via the process I previously outlined, it often causes the input of the phono section to make distortion. That distortion is interpreted by the ear as brightness.

If you take any LOMC cartridge and run a square wave through it, you'll see that the square wave is passed by the cartridge perfectly, even at 10KHz. Putting a load across the cartridge (in parallel) has no effect on the squareness of the squarewave. If it were really rolling off the high end in some manner you'd see rounding of the squarewave.

So we know the resistor isn't affecting the cartridge to any great degree. The phono section is another matter as previously outlined. So yes, its very possible the 'Problem might be isolated to the specific gear' you're using.

This makes sense. Different designs do act differently when subjected to RFI.

@ssg308 1000 Ohms is so high a value it can't be affecting the cartridge at audio frequencies at all. So this has to be how the preamp is reacting to RFI.

@ssg308 I don't doubt you although I am a bit surprised. Others have reported Pass Labs phono sections as not needing 'loading' ('detuning' is a more accurate term) resistors. Simple decrease the load till its starts working... I'd start with 1000 Ohms and work my way down.  

I load mine at 47K and it works great.

As you decrease the load it sees, two things happen. The first is the output level decreases especially as the load value approaches that of the cartridge itself but 100 Ohms will have no effect at all in that regard.

The second of course is that the cantilever gets stiffer, less compliant, since you are causing it to do more work.

Depending on the tonearm used and how well the phono section reacts to RFI, the value a person arrives at will be different. So I would not rely on other's experiences without knowing the provenance.

And what I meant by saying "terrible" was, sporrans and mid got clipped about 30%  while bass got big but hollow and muddy no definition at al just slams of senseless sonic boom,  and on top of that when record ended and I raised arm I heard harmonics between speakers and cartridge. I went bac to 1k setting and now over 4th weekend I'll experiment with all settings I have between 500 ohms and 1k to see if there is anything else I can squeeze out of the system.

@ssg308 Check your phono cartridge wiring to make sure the connections are right. If you got one channel backwards it would sound exactly like this!

Yes, circuits are diametrically different that is a fact, but loading the cartridge should have same effect on cartridge performance , sound of it at least on the dynamic level should be similar to the loads on 15 at least in the characteristic of the sound. what I’m getting on same load is half of bottom end. Does it make sense to you ??

@ssg308 Loading the cartridge causes the cartridge to have a stiffer cantilever as you are asking it to do more work. There really should be no need for this anyway since the main reason to use a ’loading resistor’ is, as @lewm pointed out, its really for the benefit of the phono section.

The cartridge is an inductor and the tonearm cable has capacitance. Since they are in parallel, an electrical resonance is created. With the Hana its quite high- 2-3MHz. That’s Radio Frequency territory and so when that resonance goes into ’excitation' (in radio parlance) its RFI being injected into the input of the phono section!

Some (most) phono preamps don’t like that and won’t sound right until the RFI is eliminated. You can do that by placing a resistance in parallel with the resonance, detuning it and thus preventing RFI. Hence the loading resistor.

Always try no loading and give the cartridge enough time to break in. Also make sure your setup in the arm is a good as it possibly can be.

If the phono section is properly designed (IOW the designer understands the implication of an inductor in parallel with a capacitance; electronics 101 FWIW...) then that will be the best you can do. Loading the cartridge will simply cause it to lose high frequency tracking ability as the cantilever gets stiffer and may cause the arm’s mechanical resonance to be outside the ideal 7-12Hz range, impairing tracking.