After months of research and mental anguish ;) I've narrowed down my search for new amplification to the two in the title. There are obvious differences like the fact that one is a stereo amp while the other are monoblocks. Anyway, if you had to, which option would you go with and why? Thanks!
This seems like an older thread but will just jump in. I got a pair of Maggie 2.7Xs and tried drive them with an AVA DV225 mono blocks. They just about melted in about 10 minutes. I had previous experience with a stereo Kismet that had a very similar sound profile to the DV225, i.e.huge soundstage and incredible dynamics. I gave Klaus a call and he set me up with the latest and greatest Kismet mono blocks. He kept saying "awesome!". I thought "sure",whatever.
I've had them for about 3 months now and the pairing with the Maggies is very good. I have yet to come close to hearing any stress on the amp no matter the volume. It reaches the point where there is just this big, tall, wall of transparent sound engulfing me. I listened to the new Blu Ray of Rabin Trower "Bridge of Sighs" last night and basically turned into jelly in my chair. Doesn't seem to be much love for Odyssey here but I am very happy with the amps and have no intention of selling them, so no worries about resale value. I would have loved to find a used pair cheap and send them in to Klaus for updating, but I wanted something new, and with the 20 year warrantyI have no worries.
The only Pass design I’ve ever had is an old Forte 1a. Recently I had it recapped by Jon Soderberg, who used to work at Threshold. I added a Triode Wire 7 plus power cord….and the combined result was just jaw dropping. I’d go with Pass:)
LOL... I just stumbled across this thread again, and ol' broken record georgehifi still amazes me at how clueless and incompetent he is.
Refuses to simply go to Odyssey's site and look at the stereo vs mono amp specs, or even read published reviews of the amps for that matter from 3rd party.
Of course georgehifi won't do that, because he will instantly prove himself wrong.
Let's see...
Stratos Stereo amp - 150W x 2 @ 8 ohms - 500 damping - 45 amps current
Stratos Mono amp - 180W x 1 @ 8 ohms - 800 damping - 120 amps current
Both amps are 2 ohm stable. Both amps are rated at 0.04% THD.
Yes, poor ol' incompetent georgehifi STILL hasn't a clue as to what he blabbers on about. And to no surprise at all, he is a major Amir butt-kisser over on that stupid ASR site, where mastermind Amir is also totally clueless and typically wrong 99% of the time with his measurements and very poor execution (a.k.a. - improper) of gear reviews. Amir and that site is the laughing stock of the hifi community.
Sorry topside3, but I don't know. I kind of doubt it. A lot of manufacturers will put dual binding posts on mono amps for flexibility in connections to the loudspeakers. PS Audio I know does this.
On an unrelated note, I have been reading through this old thread and quickly realized that georgehifi is COMPLETELY CLUELESS and sounds like a broken record.
georgehifi makes it very clear that he has zero concept of the various mono amps that Odyssey offers. No matter how many times he's told that they are NOT true "bridged" amplifiers like he thinks, he can't get it through his thick skull. He keeps blabbering on about "bridged amplifiers have lots more power and all of the other specs decline.
georgehifi keeps completely ignoring the fact that the Odyssey mono amplifiers are ONLY about 20 watts more powerful than their stereo versions, yet damping specs in the mono amps are substantially higher, and said mono amplifiers are still fully stable down to a 2 ohm load, just like their stereo versions.
You CAN'T do that with true "bridged" amplifiers like you keep blabbering on about, which is EXACTLY why Odyssey mono amps CAN.
Owners of these very amps, one of which modified his stereo pair to a mono pair via Klaus' instructions, and Klaus himself replying to this clown, and he STILL goes on sounding like a broken record saying the same old garbage over and over and over again. Everything georgehifi is told goes in one and ear and right out the other.
That faceplate is anodized aluminum. There’s room for a massive meter, if you can do without the logo and own a Dremel (or access to a Bridgeport). Then too: LED meter kits are available, that offer other possibilities. Would be sexy, if you’re into meters! btw: If anyone got that kind of itch: I could do the milling job, for a pittance.
I love meters!!! L. O. V. E. M. E. T. E. R. S. ,,!!
LOVED MY Old Onkyo m-504 amp, only 165w @8. But those cool green meters made it sound that much better “to me”. Been on the lookout, and found some meters to plug in, but, it’s not the same. Ordering the Avantone cla-200 Tuesday, if all goes well!
The huge faceplates on the odyssey stratos, would look wicked with a vu meter. Or wouldn’t they,,,,,,,?
I read on a forum that If Odyssey placed a giant colorful $5 VU meter on its amps, they could raise the price by a significant amount. When I shop for an amp again, Odyssey will be on my list. I've never heard anything but positive things about them.
"Learn"? About what ? How to use one's ears? What (and/or: how many) courses must one take, before you'd consider actually sitting down and listening to any particular amp, to see if one enjoys it's sound qualities (or not), "educated"?
"Do you think that’s all it is, driving a dummy load resistor? you have a lot to learn." No, but I do believe how any particular amp SOUNDS, is vastly more important than how it measures. But then, that's just my personal opinion.
Do you think that’s all it is, driving a dummy load resistor? you have a lot to learn.
And a non bridged amp will drive a 2-4ohm load better than the same amp bridged if you’d like to know.
Don’t you guys think a designer like Nelson Pass would have just bridged amps like his stereo X250 to make his mono X600????? or his XA30 stero to make his XA100 monos???
Gotta wonder: how does the Odyssey Stratus Mono SOUND on a test bench? It's been my experience: dummy load resistors have a very limited frequency response.
Better still find "just one amp designer" that doesn't bridge amplifiers to sell. To back bridging to have the same quality measured specs as the same amp non-bridged, into todays high end quite hard to drive speakers.
call Steve McCormack , tell him his dna-750’s are less of an amp because they are nothing more than bridged dna -500’s. That they lose sound and are inferior because their bridged.
Whatever 🤦♂️ get someone to show you on the test bench, where all decent amps are designed/measured and worked out.
It’s a very easy way for a manufacturer to have a much more "powerful mono pair model" without much re-designing and tooling put into doing it, like the original stereo one usually does
The McCormack dna-750s’ are overhyped junk then???
The dna 750s are basically bridged dna-500 amps.....?
Many of the high quality amps which are bridged, area just not good then. ?? My Odyssey amps are bridged, there are many different ways to get specs, power, s/n, etc .....it up to the designer, person who is doing the work.
I read an article week ago, or so, the McCormack dna-500 amp was bridged to become the dna -750 monos.....!???
Which means the dna -750 monos are poorly bridged, and the specs are subpar, and these amps will sound horrible?. We have heard nothing but great things about the dna 500 - & dna-750 amps. Many of the people who love these McCormack amps have been jipped by buying the mono version (dna-750) ??.?
Please explain why the dna -750 monos are subpar, because they are bridged versions ?.
We spoke with Mr. McCormack and Mr. Sanders. We heard such different explanations from these two distinguished men, than the conclusions You came up with. I do NOT DOUBT your experience/knowledge.
To each his own.I’m ecstatic with my odyssey monos’ and other equipment. if George don’t like odyssey monos, and feels they are inferior and a poor amplifier, that’s ok. I know the kismet monos I power my modified cerwin vega D-9’s with control, and make them sound amazing, even more so than the old Rotel rb1090 with much more power I had used for them.
What’s nice w the odyssey, they are upgradable. Havvy Valentine’s Day y’all!
I’ve owned both Odyssey and Pass Labs. 3 wks ago, I purchased a Pass XP-22 and X250.8 with the hope of adding another system to another house, adding balanced connections, and perhaps bettering my Odyssey Tempest Extreme Preamp and Dual Mono Stratos circa 2006. Sonically, the Pass has more dynamics, punch, dimensionality, wider image, holographic, refinement, extended frequency, and bass. It’s also 3x the price.
PASS LABS:
However, the XP-22 hummed, and I could hear it from the speakers at 6ft. It defeated the purpose of having a separate chassis for the PS. The X250.8 had wobbly XLR connectors. The cables would also lock into the connectors. I used 8 pairs of speakers with known impedance curves, ranging 86 to 104 dB/W/m. I had to do exhaustive testing with the setup, and even lugged it to another house to rule out the electrical system. I ended up returning the Pass after 5 days for a substantial restocking fee, because dealer said that wobbly connectors are within the normal range for Pass. They’re designed to wobble to release stress in the cable - It didn’t inspire confidence. At 100 lbs., it sounded bogus! I didn’t want to be shuffling these amps anymore. Not after paying $14k! These were 2 month demos from the most reputable Pass dealer in the U.S. I wonder if demos are subject to QC. In this case, no, which resulted in the loss of a sale and new customer. Who knows if they’re recirculating the same equipment to an unsuspecting customers?
The X250.8 was stellar with my Don Sachs Model 2 tube preamp. The gain of the XP-22 is too low. On low-level recordings I had to turn the volume to 80/99 for engaged listening. The first 60-70 settings seem to low to be of any consequence.
ODYSSEY AUDIO:
Initially, I had problems with Odyssey too. The Tempest Preamp hummed very badly. I sent the Odyssey back, and Klaus upgraded the preamp to the Extreme with a Plitron transformer. That cost me $650 in 2006. It seems the Stratos Amps require biasing about every 10 years. I rebiased them 3 years ago after they started to get very hot to the touch, and sounded lean. I find they sound magical at 21mV - great balance of highs/bass. Since the Dual Monos, are stacked boards, it’s very difficult to get the voltmeter leads on the bottom channel. The Single Monos have much easier access points. Odyssey amps require biasing to your outlet voltage. However, I find them to be sensitive to IC too, which is good because you can voice them to your liking.
Klaus asks you to supply the voltage of your house when biasing the amps for custom build. He recommends you keep the system on 24/7. I don’t trust any equipment to be on continuously as it cuts into the lifespan, and risks damage during surges. I leave them on periodically, during anticipated listening time, and find that it takes a few hours to charge the capacitors - then they’ll sound ideal. This is true for many amps with large capacitance PS. The Odysseys sound great, but require experimentation to dial in the sound and voicing.
Please, don’t waste time telling me how impeccable Pass or any other company is to protect your own resale interests. I had such high hopes, and had no intention of returning the Pass since they sounded sonically amazing, sans the hum in the XP-22. There are quirks with products, some we can live with, some are unacceptable, some we don’t know about. Ignorance is bliss in audio, believe me! I’ve owned Odyssey and Pass, and had QC issues with both over the years. But, Pass was substantially more expensive, so I was unwilling to deal with questionable QC in 2021, especially at a much higher price point.
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ Oh my.... You just didn't read what i said in my first post!! I KNOW that theses are stereo bridged version!!! I MADE the conversion MYSELF!!!!🤦♂️
Ok, that enough for me. I said what i have to say about it. And you dont have any other argument than " these are crap cause they're just a bridged stereo version".
So what you’re arguing about is applicable for true mono amps only, not in this case, Odyssey stereo-to-mono amps.
"True mono amps" don’t have a problem, only stereo amps that have been bridged to be monoblocks have worse specs.
As you can see this is a Stratos monoblock extreme "was clearly a stereo amp" that has been bridged to be mono, as I’ve shown with the two large left and right channel red circled, and the one set of input and speaker terminals omitted small red circle https://ibb.co/kG04kTv
@georgehifi Blah blah blah...you're always repeating the same thing...measurable parameters... but thats true if only it was true bridged amps, what they aren't. And thats why the wattage is not doubled or tripled like true bridged amp do. They're only 20watts more, but alot of increased current 45amp stereo vs 120amp mono.
So what you're arguing about is applicable for true mono amps only, not in this case, Odyssey stereo-to-mono amps.
So, please @georgehifi stop BS about Odyssey if you even didn’t listen or test those amps.
Sorry but obvious, if you knew but don’t, what happens to all measurable parameters that make for good amps, they all go backwards when an amp is bridged (mono'd), only the wattage is higher, everything else takes a hit. Cheers George
I bought 2 Stereo Stratos used this year. They sound really really good, and being an audio tech, I "mono' ized" the 2 Stereo amps nothing else modified, just converted to mono by Klaus instructions. All i can say is that you (Georgehifi) are wrong about the monos being crap. The sound from the monos is up to another level! The sound is richer (tube-like), the soundstage is really better too. And if that wasn't the case, I could re-convert them into stereos right? So, please @georgehifi stop BS about Odyssey if you even didn't listen or test those amps.
@odysseyaudio Thanks Klaus for all your implication in your products! They really give us the highest price/performance for our hard earned money!!
I presently own Lorelei, Tempest pre, Stratos monos. Very happy!!😊👌
Just got a Pass Labs X-150.5 for under 2500 dollars. I have Pass Labs X-250.5 driving Audio Physic Virgos. The amp is fed by a heavily modded Air Tight Tube preamp fed by a Asi Teknology mid-level mod to a Cambridge 841 CD player. The sound of this system is sublime - impactful, visceral, dimensional with a tremendous soundstage. For my reference system I opted for the x-150.5 because 150 wpc should be more than enough for my Revel F208s and does not weigh 100 pounds like the x-250.5.
I own the latest version of the Kismet Stereo amp and all I can say from 'my personal' experience is that it is fabulous. I have owned lots of of quality gear from quality manufactures over the years and my Kismet stereo amp is my favorite amplifier that I have had in my listening room.
I have a friend who owns Pass Lab gear and it is great, love it. It has some advantages such as astectics and resale. I have not done a direct comparison in my listening room so I can't comment on which sounds best. I would suggest not to underestimate the Kismet.
why are you so negative against the Odyssey amplifiers?
You really need to read more sunshine/mate/bro. I’m only anti the monoblocks that are just mono’ized stereo amps (not true mono amps at all). NEVER!!! have I said anything against the stereo amps. The gullible here think the mono’ized stereo’s are better than the stereo amp. Only in wattage being far higher are they better, no where else. Sound quality into the same speaker that both have enough wattage for without strain, the stereo amp will, without a doubt sound better!
BTW: Cerwin Vega D9, 101db 8ohm load, 125db before they distort. Yep! your on the money🤦♂️
why are you so negative against the Odyssey amplifiers?
After 15-20 years, I just received my upgraded stratos to Kismet amps, and they are great!
just curious mate. I first heard of odyssey long time ago, and have been waiting for about 20 years, maybe a little less,
I have read EVERY available review and article on Odyssey kismet amps. They are very good!
Have you heard a pair of the newest carnation of the Odyssey kismet amps? Wow, are they fast, powerful, deep bass, amazing treble!
I would put these kismet monos against many,amps Twice their price! They drive my modified cerwin Vega D-9’s great, as I have gone through no,less than 5 amplifiers which all were drained and owned by the D-9 speakers. anyway, I’m happy with them, and thousands of customers are happy w them.
Owned great amps, and cruddy amps past 30 years, Kismets are nice tubey sounding,amps which have great control of my speakers.
I’m sorry you don’t like them bro. Great weekend all!
Only for wattage Klaus, only for wattage. All other parameters that make for a good amp take a hit, especially low impedance speaker drivability
and stability.
Fair enough...and yes, the monos are mono'd out stereo amps, BUT. for one, man oh man, that's been a long time ago with AU...and secondly, no matter what, the monos are superior.......
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