Pass Labs Int 25 vs Int 60

@arafiq +1

Mike

I’ve owned both the xa25 and now the Int60. 
they are both impressive amps in their own right. I settled on the integrated 60 as it it has a sweeter sound and a deeper sound stage and more luscious sounding. I also appreciate the passive volume control that only offers attenuation for a minimalistic approach. Very happy with the integrated 60 and this should be my endgame amplifier for a long time. thank you Nelson 

  Having owned both and I currently own the INT60, IMO the INT25 falls short in several things but bass control is the most obvious to me....Im not totally in love with the 60 and guessing will move on from it sooner than later...but between the 2 choices the 60 is far superior by a long shot.

@shahram Around 35sq meters. You can see it on my virtual system

@celestial__sound How big is your room?

I use my INT-25 With 88dbs Sonus Faber olympica II. It sound so damn good at any volume level. Plenty of power as well

We all have our favorites.  I found Pass gear too warm and soft sounding.  Also not a fan of the heat and weight of their amps.  Clearly, very well engineered and built components, just not for me.  After a ton of gear over the years, I landed on Ayre. Love their house sound.  Also, like Pass, impeccably designed and made in the USA.

According to your experiences, for lower volume listening (55-60dB) would INT-25 be sufficient to drive speakers with sensitivity 91dB at 6ohm?

agree 100% w @mesch

int25 under those conditions is plenty plenty - even 'baby' pass amps are stout into low impedance loads

Thank you very much @mesch for your response. My room is 16x23’ and the speakers go down to 3.31 ohm.

@kastor77 I would think so unless the room is quite large. Sensitivity specs for speakers are often reported  higher than actually measured under real world conditions. 

I have driven my Esoteric MG-10s with the XA25 in a 12x15' room with no problem. They are 6ohm nominal, drop below 4 ohm somewhere at lower frequency, and 87-88dB sensitive. 

 

Hi All! According to your experiences, for lower volume listening (55-60dB) would INT-25 be sufficient to drive speakers with sensitivity 91dB at 6ohm?

It comes down to the load the driven speaker represents. 

If you want class A sound one must stay in class A. Though the XA25 or Int25 can produce greater than the stated 25 watts when needed, the amp is no longer biased in class A. Thus some of the 'sweetness' is lost. 

I own the XA25 and love it. Drives efficient speakers in a ~15'x12'x8' room.  

I have had 2 pass with my Wilson Sophia 2 (89db min 3ohms). Very revealer speaker. Int30A (60w class A at 4ohms), Int60 (15W Class A at 4ohms). I chose the first. It’s a warm sound with necessary detail and information without being fatiguing. I’m surprised how well the Wilson drives, I guess being 4 ohms doubles the power to 60 watts pure A which is brutal, generating the pressure of a live concert. Int60: instead I feel that it has less grip on the bass and generates more fatigue. at mid vol The needle starts to move quite easily because it leaves the class A and the distortion of the class AB is heard.

I would like to try the new Int25 (pure A)

I listened to several Pass Amps (X250 X250.5 X350) and I feel that I like only the pure class A line of them.

If anyone is interested I have nude photos of both of them on my channel. @Mat_audio

Ive owned both - both are amazing. The 25 sounds better at lower volumes but does indeed get agressive when turned up. It does not scale well. The 60 sounds great at low volumes as well but absolutely sings when turned up. Its fantastic. I kept the 60. 

 I have owned the Pass int 60 and it was traded to reno for a int 250. The 60 is a bit lusher in the mids. The 250 is a bit brighter but has more detail and wider soundstage. Im not sure I could say one is better than the other. I feel is just more a matter of taste. Of curse the 250 can drive lower impedance better. Opinions are nice, but you really have to listen. 

with any amplifier selection, fully understanding and properly mating the loudspeaker load to the amplifier capability is paramount for happiness

@cal3713 one would think if the Pass Labs amps sound great thru Steve’s Klipsch speakers, probably similar with the ZU’s. Thanks for the suggestion. I will run direct dac and see what I hear different. 

@shazam Yes, it is my opinion Pass aims at music-first-audiophiles. Those DeVORE Orangutan's will sing on both the INT25 and the INT60. I believe @stevehuff has owned Vinnie Rossi amps in the past, not sure which one(s). Maybe he can comment on this.

@aberyclark #1 should be easy enough to test.  Find (or make) a quiet track  and just plug your source straight into the J2.  Then compare with it through the BHK.  Or borrow a DAC with variable output and try the same.

As for #2, I haven't heard the J2, but I suspect it would sound quite different from the 25. The J2 and XA25 use different output devices, and a different amplification typology.  The J2 has a SET-like distortion profile with 2nd harmonic dominance and the XA25 has a 3rd harmonic dominant profile (I believe this is true of the 60.8 as well). They likely have different damping factors too, so may interact with your speakers differently.  Only one way to know which you'd prefer.

A couple of questions. I currently run the BHK preamp thru a Firtwatt J2.
I have been considering going to an integrated amp. I have Zu Omen refs ( 96-101db)

1. would I miss the tubes going to the INT 25/60?

 

2. how would the pass 25 compare to the first watt J2 sound wise?

Been considering the INT-60 to replace my Vinnie Rossi L2i SE once my Devore O96 arrive. This quote from markuzz3000 really grabbed my attention...

The mighty INT60... is also able to take an “ordinary” recording and make it listenable.

As much as I love my high res digital and audiophile vinyl, I still listen to a lot of not so well recorded music that a really revealing system can make unlistenable. In the search for audio nirvana, we often loose sight that the music is half the equation and some great albums aren't recorded as well as we would like. 

 

@jjss49 Seems like you have a competitive stable 😎. Looking forward to your findings!

with a pair of maggies on their way (last time i had a set was a pair of mg3a's in 1988), i picked up a nice used int-150

will compare with my xa 25... along with several others in the stable 😊

Further explorations on the differences between the Pass Labs INT25 and INT60.

 

Disclaimer: all ‘statements’ written in this post are my subjective findings, based on my system and my room. I ran both amps on my horn loaded loudspeakers, with a fairly high sensitivity of 96dB. Both amps never ran out of breath, heck the needle of the INT60 barely moved at (earthquake) high volume levels. In other words: depending on your loudspeakers, your miles may vary :-)

 

Another note: I have zero affiliation with Pass Labs.

 

As mentioned in my previous post, both amps have a surprisingly similar sound signature. Even though this post is aimed at the differences….. let’s start with the similarities.

 

The 25 and 60 are potential lifelong soulmates to music lovers. They are very capable of reproducing ‘music’, instead of ‘sound’. Both machines bring contradicting sound properties at the same time, such as:

 

Elegant and exciting.

Coherent and transparent.

Lush and decisive.

 

These qualities are what many audiophiles crave, but are seldom seen together.

 

Now…. The differences.

 

The magical INT25: The advantages of this amplifier is that it it has fewer gain stages. The strength of this simpler design is that it enables to “see” deeply into the recording. The 60 is also good at this, but less than the 25. Also, the 25 sounds slightly more lush and nimble. More playful.

 

The mighty INT60: Compared to the 25 with a single pair of FET’s, the 60 has banks of smaller transistors. The sound is more rich and resolute compared to the 25. Both amps sound slightly left of neutral, and the 60 has more ‘meat on the bone’. She is also able to take an “ordinary” recording and make it listenable.

 

Both amps sound incredibly right and will probably satisfy many music-first audiophiles. One of the important factors in this hobby is system matching. It will depend on the other links in your chain as to which amp you prefer. In my system and room, and to my taste, I give the nod to the 60.

 

Final thoughts on the design of the INT25: I’ve built a few early First Watt designs in the past and I find a resemblance in the INT25. The simple, yet elegant set-up is still intriguing. The dual FET’s connected directly to the loudspeaker without ballast resistors result in low distortion and Class A operation into low impedance and reactive loads. I will not be surprised when Nelson Pass is going full circle to further development on this path for his next (final?) generation of amplifiers. Maybe a similar design with larger heat sinks for dissipation? Bigger, faster power supply? Balanced? A more tuned pre-stage? A recipe for a killer future reference amp.

 

Cheers, Markuzz.

@markuzz3000 Thank you for posting your impressions. Looking forward to more.

Initial impressions on the differences between the INT25 and INT60:

 

First of all, the INT60 is a beast physically. Large, heavy and present. Also the INT60 is deep, and will not fit all audioracks or furniture. The INT25 is a bit more modest. Especially when you switch off the numeric display. This can be done on both, however the INT60 will always display the blue glow of the round fish tank (even when powered off). Although many enjoy this, it is something Nelson could consider for future amplifiers. It would be nice to be able to switch it off, and go 'stealth'.

 

The connections on the back are a bit more modest as well on the INT25. Obviously the balanced inputs are missing on the INT25, due to the single ended design. But also the speaker terminals are a tad smaller. Nothing to worry about, just an observation. The only ‘complaint’ I have is that the power inlet of the INT25 is close to the handle. Therefore my power cable (with crazy ETI Kryo IEC connector) will slide in the INT25, but on an angle. I enjoy power inlet’s in the centre, it makes cable routing more easy. Why this is different from all other Pass amps on the INT25, is unclear to me.

 

Both amps sport a timeless beauty, fit & finish are exquisite, and the build quality is top notch. They attract the attention of your friends & family (even kids), and demonstrate your enthusiasm towards high-end audio gear. Both pieces are ‘just’ integrated amps, but you get instant respect from fellow audiophiles, even from ones who still believe the only way ‘is to go separate’. The badass-ness of these Pass amplifiers appeal. To everyone.

 

Now when it comes to sound, it's obvious they are racehorses from the same stable. They are bred, fed and trained the same way. Their sound signature is surprisingly similar. Thus, what are the differences in sound? Yes…. Well.... the INT60 needs a few more days of playing as she is still almost new at the writing of this subjective ‘review’.

 

So…. Stay tuned.

 

Cheers, Markuzz.

Sounds good, Markuzz!

 

I had the Pass INT-30A, and replaced it with the INT-60.  Both are very fine: to my ears the 30 was a snootch more musical, and the the 60 a snootch more revealing.

What tipped me to the 60 is that, unlike some of the experiences reported here with the 25A (and many reports other low watt Pass gear), I had trouble driving speakers with the 30, even efficient ones.

I'll be curious to here the results of your comparison!  Also keen to hear about comparisons of the 60 and 250.

Seems this thread is getting cold. I own a INT25, and have a INT60 on loan momentarily from a friendly dealer. The 60 is brand spanking new, and 'burning in' since Friday. So in case anyone is interested, I can post my subjective findings between the glorious 25 and 60 here 😀.

Cheers, Markuzz

I have FINALLY settled on Dynaudio Confidence C4 Platinums, and the INT-25 drives them wonderfully in my 14x23' room. 

I have an INT60 which is just a fantastic integrated. I decided to get it over the INT25  because of the balanced inputs and also preamp Out and power amp Input which the INT 25 doesn’t have. I plan to play with some tube preamps to see if I prefer it. If so, I may go to separates and maybe even monoblock 60.8 amps. The INT 60 was a good launching point and will likely sell for close to what I bought it for. 
Presently I am using my INT 60 with Tannoy Yorkminster’s, Audio Note 3.1 balanced DAC running JPRiver or Tidal Hirez. Also some vinyl..

By the way Steve, I bought the Luxman L-590AXII after reading your review of the amp on your page. Your high praise on the amp was spot on as the Luxman sounds very good with my Marten Duke 2. I was actually deciding between Pass Labs INT-60 and Luxman L-590AXII and picked the latter as the opportunity came up. The rest was history.

I’m sure the INT-60 or INT-250 will sound equally good if not better but the Luxman has managed to get me off the merry-go-round of upgrades..

The Heresy IV and LaScala AL5 are easy to drive speakers with a high sensitivity of 99dB and 105dB respectively, and a nominal impedance of 8 ohms. With these speakers it is not a surprise the Pass Labs INT-25 sounded best in comparison to all other higher spec amps which include the INT-60 and 250. Imagine using flea-powered tube amps with the Klipsch horn speakers. With these high sensitivity horns, other high powered amps will have the potential of sounding aggressive.

Move to more conventional harder to drive speakers with 86 to 88dB and lowish impedance of say 4 to 6 ohms perhaps dropping down to 3 ohms minimum, the tables will likely be turned as the INT-25 takes a back seat while the larger amps which include Luxman L-590AXII sounding better with these select speakers. Think Dynaudio, B&W, Marten etc. as these speakers will have the tendency of sounding flat and lifeless if they don’t get enough current and drive from the amp.

Just an update. I have had many amps in for review over the last few months and the INT-25 is still tops in my book for a few reasons. 

I have an INT-250, INT-25, XP-10 and XA 60.8's, a couple of Tube integrated, a Schiit Freya + and Aegir. I have a Yamaha integrated here as well as a Cary 300 SEI. 

Running these into my Heresy IV and LaScala AL5's the INT-25 is amazingly sweet. The INT-250 is neck and neck and provides a bit more bass heft but loses a but of that sweetness than the 25 excels at. The separates of XP-10 and XA60.8 are all about smooth and density. I love those as well but at the end of the day when you favor in cost, heat. and cost to run the INT-25 truly wins if you are running speakers that are not so demanding. 

For the $$ it's tough to beat in the integrated world. I have become a huge fan of Pass Labs and to date have-not heard any other products or brands that I prefer when it comes to amplification. Nelson Pass IS INDEED a genius.

@bluorion With any Nelson Pass design you should assume it'll get pretty warm.  I think his general rule is to keep it around a level where you can keep your hand on the heat sinks for about 5 seconds before being forced to pull away.  I've had an XA-25 in my room, and it wasn't crazy hot, but I don't think you'd want to stuff it in a cabinet or anything.

I haven't read the review yet, but I can pretty much guess what it says. This is by far the best, bar none, amp Steve has ever heard. This is it! The end game, the final stop!

Give him 6 months and you'll hear about Pass Labs shortcomings when the next 'end game' amp shows up. :)

@stevehuff Great review of the INT-25! Being class A, how warm does it get? Thanks.

@stevehuff Really great comparisons in that review Steve.  For people who haven't clicked yet, Steve also has top-quality integrateds from Luxman, Vinnie La Rossie, and Line Magnetic on hand for comparisons.  What a privilege to have those in the stable... all beautiful in their own way I'm sure.  And really an accomplishment for Nelson to have come out on top...

Also, the int-25, for me, has the all out best bass performance of any integrated I’ve had. Bests the Luxman and any others I’ve had. Makes the naim pieces sound thin. But the magic lies in the mids with the 25 and Heresy.  Nothing harsh about it with the Heresy IV, no matter how loud I go. 

My review:

https://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2021/01/22/the-pass-labs-int-25-integrated-amplifier-review-the-sweet...

I use the 25 with Klipsch Heresy IV, chord Qutest DAC, Chord Mscaler, and a simple blue sound node 2i (dig out to chord). Nordost Blue Heaven LS cables throughout. 
The 25 added bass weight, a silky midrange that is very big sounding and a detailed yet non offensive top end. 

The 60 is also a beautiful amp. If I had harder to drive speakers I would have considered a purchase. But even the 25 powers the Q acoustic C300s quite easily and those are 86 or 87 dB. 
The room makes the biggest difference, always. With that said, the INT-25 is a much fuller and warmer integrated than the others I’ve had. Naim Nova, Luxman 590axII, and various tube amps, including Prima  Luna. 
I feel the INT-25 has something very special about it and it’s a perfect match for Klipsch Heritage (modern day newest versions). 

I love the two completely opposite reviews from two people who've tried both head-to-head... and both with efficient speakers to boot.  

Just goes to show that you've got to hear equipment in your system, with your ears, to truly know what you'll prefer.  

@stevehuff what speakers are you using with your INT-25?
Thanks :-)

I have the INT-25 and it is among the best amps I have heard. Integrated of course. It's silky, like velvet. Warm, rich, huge, impactful, real, and has an immensely deep soundstage and just the right amount of details. The 60, which I do not own but have heard is to my ears a tad more aggressive. Either way, beautiful amps. I do not need the power of the 60, so the 25 is magic in my system. I prefer it to the Luxman 590 AXII, Naim Nova and even a tube integrated I have here with EL34's. A true heirloom piece and IMO well worth the asking price. It's not about measurements but how my ears and heart hear the music, and this amp speaks to my heart. 

I've auditioned and compared the two models at home. There is a huge difference IMHO. 
To resume both have a great definition and quite same sounding in the high but with the INT60 you will have much deeper and more define bass and a wider soundstage. 
I've also found the Int25 a little bit "agressive" when you turn up the volume. I've always preferred to keep it under 30. 
This could be explained by its limitations in the bass register. 
I've kept the INT60 for these reasons. 

Gear: AvantGarde Uno Xd, Audiomat Maestro 3 Réf, Esprit Structura loudspeaker cables, D4 XLR ZenWave Audio, Pass Labs INT-60

@audiofound 

Excellent - thanks for the feedback!

I've auditioned the INT 60. Smooth as butta'! A very rich, robust sounding amp with a wonderful frequency spectrum. I ended up getting the INT 250 only because I thought I might need the extra power for transient peaks. The first 15 watts in the INT 250 are class A. I'll bet I almost never get into class AB territory, especially in my 27' x 14' listening room. But if I do I'm totally confident the INT 250 will easily handle the peaks. I just hope my ears will, LOL!! As I said, I'm hopelessly in love with my INT 250. But I could be just as happy with the INT 60. It's just a killer sounding amp. I've not had the chance to audition the INT 25. Can't comment on it other than what I've read about it is highly complimentary.

Thanks for the suggestions. Yes, I have been checking Reno HIFI inventory and know they are the best Pass Labs dealer near me. If I get one, it will most likely be from there. I will get in touch with them and see what they say.

+joseph796, for sure call Reno HIFI.  And note they sometimes have lightly used demos for sale with full warranties.  Not associated with Reno.