I'm still waiting for a response to my "wire direction chaos" post...it's almost as if nobody cares...*sniff*...and to address Kaitty's comment...yes, georghifi and I are the same person. Anybody got a problem with that?
Pass Labs and Fuses
I continue to enjoy my Pass Labs Int-60 amplifier with my horn based system. My listening area has been intensively treated for acoustic - speaker interaction and it is always a joy for me to listen to a Dialed In system.
For my latest listening experiment I decided to evaluate the sonic differences using three fuses in the Pass amplifier. A brand new Bussman fuse, a Synergistic Research Blue fuse and a Synergistic Research Orange fuse. I keep this amp on 24/7 as suggested by the manufacturer. The Blue fuse has over a 1000 hours on it and the Orange had a 160 hours (continuous playing time) on it before any listening evaluations. The Bussman was listened to for the first time immediately out of the box.
The Bussman fuse did a fine job. But going from the Blue fuse which I had been using to the Bussman, there was a definite change. With the Bussman the sound was now more two dimensional. Instruments were not as full bodied. The depth of the soundstage was compressed front to back. I was more aware that I was listening to a recording versus being in the room with the musicians. The music was less emotionally involving. I did for completeness sake reverse the direction of the new Bussman fuse several times. It did consistently sound better installed in one direction, not huge but it is there.
Comparing the Synergistic Blue Fuse to Orange Fuse was similar to my past tube rolling experiences with my 300B tubed amplifier (but cheaper to carry out). Different tubes change the sound and these different fuses change the sound. Both of these fuses brought out more of the music that the Pass Labs amp was playing when compared to the Bussman fuse. Before any serious listening was undertaken, the fuses were evaluated for best sounding direction - and they both were directional.
The Orange fuse really is exceptional in it’s ability to let me enjoy the music and who is playing what. The detail of Willie Nelson’s nylon strings on his guitar had much better dynamics and richer texture than I have previously heard using the Blue fuse. His Stardust album continues to impress me.
When listening to music that has more musicians playing, such as on Sierra Una Noche, I can more easily distinguish each instrument and it’s contribution to the musical whole. Also in this live recording that uses only two mics, I get a better feel of each musician’s distance from the microphones and that they move toward and away from the microphones while playing. These factors allow me to forget I am listening to a recording of an event. With the Orange fuse, I feel I am at the event as it is playing.
This fuse experiment was fun to do and educational.
Feel free to call.
David Pritchard
575-644-1462
For my latest listening experiment I decided to evaluate the sonic differences using three fuses in the Pass amplifier. A brand new Bussman fuse, a Synergistic Research Blue fuse and a Synergistic Research Orange fuse. I keep this amp on 24/7 as suggested by the manufacturer. The Blue fuse has over a 1000 hours on it and the Orange had a 160 hours (continuous playing time) on it before any listening evaluations. The Bussman was listened to for the first time immediately out of the box.
The Bussman fuse did a fine job. But going from the Blue fuse which I had been using to the Bussman, there was a definite change. With the Bussman the sound was now more two dimensional. Instruments were not as full bodied. The depth of the soundstage was compressed front to back. I was more aware that I was listening to a recording versus being in the room with the musicians. The music was less emotionally involving. I did for completeness sake reverse the direction of the new Bussman fuse several times. It did consistently sound better installed in one direction, not huge but it is there.
Comparing the Synergistic Blue Fuse to Orange Fuse was similar to my past tube rolling experiences with my 300B tubed amplifier (but cheaper to carry out). Different tubes change the sound and these different fuses change the sound. Both of these fuses brought out more of the music that the Pass Labs amp was playing when compared to the Bussman fuse. Before any serious listening was undertaken, the fuses were evaluated for best sounding direction - and they both were directional.
The Orange fuse really is exceptional in it’s ability to let me enjoy the music and who is playing what. The detail of Willie Nelson’s nylon strings on his guitar had much better dynamics and richer texture than I have previously heard using the Blue fuse. His Stardust album continues to impress me.
When listening to music that has more musicians playing, such as on Sierra Una Noche, I can more easily distinguish each instrument and it’s contribution to the musical whole. Also in this live recording that uses only two mics, I get a better feel of each musician’s distance from the microphones and that they move toward and away from the microphones while playing. These factors allow me to forget I am listening to a recording of an event. With the Orange fuse, I feel I am at the event as it is playing.
This fuse experiment was fun to do and educational.
Feel free to call.
David Pritchard
575-644-1462
208 responses Add your response
As the original poster I do think it is important to remember I few points that I wrote about the topic. This was an experiment to see if there were sonic differences using three different fuses - each installed and removed multiple times and in both directions. A well know respected amplifier brand ( Pass Labs) was used that has a reputation for having a excellent power supply. This was done on purpose to discount the experiment being devalued due to a "poor power supply being a factor in the observed results". No other changes were made to the system for the past five months. So there are no other known major variables going on. The humidity (measured), and room temperature (measured) were kept constant. The time of day for listening was kept constant - 8:00 to 10;00 at night. The Pass Labs amplifier was also chosen as it can and was left on 24/7 (except when it was turned off to change fuses). Since this amplifier has a screw in fuse holder, fuses can be easily and safely changed. This was a serious attempt on my part to do a meaningful evaluation of three fuses and their sonic effect on a well respected amplifier. It is the first of several experiments I have planned pertaining to this subject. It was earlier pointed out earlier that testing - evaluating fuses is " by necessity a time consuming affair". That is absolutely correct and one reason I chose to report this experiment. It is a lot of work. It takes a lot of time. My observations indicating a change in sound have not and will not ever have a percentage number assigned to them. I have found it very helpful to watch all the You Tube videos posted featuring interviews with Nelson Pass and his co-designer Wayne Colburn of Pass Labs Inc. I will not attempt to condense what their approach to perfecting a design is but it involves both measurements and a lot of listening. Nelson also discusses the subjective and objective and their place in developing audio products. Wayne Colburn of Pass Labs has been most gracious in his time and expertise to directly answer questions I had about Pass Labs's use of fuses and circuit breakers. David Pritchard |
That this site is the only place where so much time and effort is put into discussing how fuses sound (mostly by the same handful of people) says a lot. It’s a wonder the rest of the world is able to function in lieu of expensive fuses. There are places in the world where people do not even consider having a pet because of poverty. There is also this place where people are encouraged to drop $100s of dollars on fuses based on a handful of opinions and total hearsay. Just saying.... |
Quick question, how do you know if it’s the Orange fuse breaking in or the eMats breaking in? Also, are they still breaking in? Does the system have to be ON for break-in to occur? How do you distinguish been what you hear with the Orange fuse and what you hear with the eMats? See 👀 where I’m going with this? |
Let me guess.....is the one behind it upside down compared to most? I guess that’s me, would be nice if I had that much influence from down here, I’d use it much more, with this malignant, snake oil, voodoo, rubbish. And it's the same old magic circle fuser club every time, that come up with monotonous regularity each different color of the >$150 fuses sounds 100% better than the last. Unbelievable they say, but make sure it’s around the right way, and had at least 100hrs burn in time, before you judge it!! Even the non technical and gullible aren’t that stupid to be coned by this rubbish |
@oregonpapa Frank, I see your Orange Fuse Thread up... and now down, again. Do you know why?Let me guess.....is the one behind it upside down compared to most? |
Nope. Don't know and don't care. I have way too much music left to listen to instead of worrying about a couple of nay-sayers getting their panties twisted into knots. The SR Orange fuses are another advancement in after-market fuses. I loved the effect that the SR Blue fuses had on the system, but the Orange fuses are even better. Frank |
Wolf Useless in what way. If you do not have measurements and triple bypass blind testing on everything with a reputable company I can’t believe what you are saying is true. You know the bias factor also comes into play.. The first thing I would want to know is how big a pile is that you mentioned. You see something else could of been in that pile that you used for a fuse. So come back with extensive documentation and I just might start to listen. I am being sarcastic. I do hope you are enjoying your system even without those terrific fuses. |
A couple of years ago I tested a pile of SR fuses just to give my ranting some credibility (!) and found they were useless and somewhat dangerous as their ratings were suspect. You can look it up...also, note that nobody responded to my previous post regarding internal wire direction chaos which, to my thinking anyway, negates fuse influence as described by the Athletic Supporters of fancy fuses. |
At some risk of being flamed 🔥 can I point out that because of the rather long burn-in times required for fuses generally and the vagaries of fuse directionality, as well as possible fuse holder issues interfering, that any comparison or evaluation of fuses is by necessity a time-consuming affair fraught with all sorts of possible interfering conditions that might impose themselves on such a test and make conclusions questionable. Also, I think that it would be of value to select an amplifier with a reputation for a crappy power supply on which to experiment with fuses. |
As the original poster I chose to perform an experiment that I considered fun and thought it was worth while to report the results. I chose the Pass Labs amplifier as their products do have the reputation of having a good power supply and being well built . I did not want to waste my time evaluating fuses in a product that has a questionable build quality. On all the Pass Labs amps that have fuses, the fuse is easily removed using a screw in fuse holder which is next to the on -off power supply switch. I also considered this an important reason to chose a Pass Labs amp. I do consider safety to be important. The experiment was not designed to be sales pitch for a new product but to examine if fuses in an amplifier might affect the sound. The test results I obtained revealed that three different fuses had three different effects on the sound, and that in each case simply removing the fuse and changing the direction of the fuse also changed the sound. I did not expect to hear a change in sound with the Bussman brand fuse. This alone made the experiment worthwhile to me. So for some audiophiles, simply changing the direction of the fuse may change the sound for the better. Fun to try if you have a fuse installed as the Pass products do. Since changes of fuse type and direction were made multiple times an amplifier who's fuse was easy and safely removable was a conscious decision that I made. After spending many hours doing this, I thought it would be informative to the audiophile community to publish my results. I hope others will repeat similar experiments and report their results. David Pritchard |
I would like to David for posting his experiences on fuse swapping . I like many others have experienced sound differences when swapping fuses . But before I did I was skeptical how could the power going thru a small wire ment to melt affect the sound ? ( the same can be said with power outlets and cords ) hearing is believing ! When I experimented I didn't use $100 or $150 fuses , I used $2 , $10 and $20 fuses in both my amp and a guitar amp . The first thing I discovered is that a ceramic fuse sounded better than a glass fuse , so I replaced all fuses in my system with ceramic ones for less than $25 . I didn't like the sound of a gold plated cryro'd fuse or the audiophile directional one so I wasn't tempted to spend $100 or $200 on fuses . I also discovered the HARD WAY that genaric cereamic fuses should be avoided both for reliablity and sound . Spending a lot on a fuse was hard for me but when a 1/2 price sale on a Furutech fuse came along I had to try it . Was it worth the price ? It did sound better But for my pocketbook not enough to justify replacing the other 6 fuses in my amp . In my opinion and experience fuses can and do affect the sound . For me its a matter of the cost benifit ratio . |
geoffkait ...
Geoff, if I said something really obvious like: "Hey it is raining." Or, "Gee, the sun is out." Would that be considered "shilling" for the weather? Stating the obvious isn't shilling, it is just stating the obvious. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gcdrum ... Right, and these are the type of folks who will tell you that food is just a "fuel," and that sex is for procreation, never experiencing truly great food ... or ... Frank |
There sure is definite signs of toxicity on display today. First time I have to agree with George! Not likely to get better anytime soon. Good to know which camp you fell into Mijo, I figured you for a little more receptive given your normal intelligent postings , even if they can be abrasive. Oh well...... 😇😇😇 |
Doesn't SR return policy take the risk out of trying them? If you can hear a difference, keep them, if not, return them? What's the problem? |
George, If you object to a post, just report the post. I don’t understand this need to censor people for their views, whether they are wrong or not. People are adults here. I think they all understand electricity can be dangerous. georgehifi6,325 posts12-04-2019 3:40amMods!! |
No, it is like saying that someone who saw something in a scene a year ago, then saw the same scene today and claimed they noticed some minor change, has less credibility than someone who is comparing two pictures. Sort of like how people with "photographic" memory will regularly "remember" something in the scene they just saw that was not there. That's like saying an actual witness to an event has no more credibility than one who hasn't. It's a word game now, and has been for a great while. |
Boy this is fun. George and Wolf hang on. These guys are talking a bunch of innocents into wasting their money on silly fuses and other misc JUNK. We are on the right side of history. Thinking that a fuse is going to make a difference is s___y and s----d to be polite. But these are the depths to which these people will dive to make cheap incredible, fabulous, unquestionable, dramatic and huge improvements in sound quality when all they need to do is get a new set of loudspeakers and one of Ralph's amps to drive them:) |
And it’s very dangerous for non technical to be playing around with ac mains fuses, and trying them in different directions frantically, forgetting just once to unplug mains before touching the fuse.And this is getting so old, trite and worn out it needs addressing before it is regurgitated yet again by George. Have you ever changed a fuse in an amp George? You know, where you pull out the fuse drawer at the back WHICH DISCONNECTS THE FUSE FROM THE AC POWER NO MATTER WHAT? Or screw the black cap container head off type? Granted there are some amp and equipment around that entails opening up the casework to get at the fuse but do you TRULY think anybody who is going to do that will really have left it plugged in and switched on??? Not everybody is as dense as some people George...... Let me put it another way.. If I was going to choose between reading and believing posts from David Pritchard or Georgehifi....... Well do not hold your breath George........ |
Mods!! This thread, needs to be shut down, it's turned toxic just like all other fuse threads have. None, not one, especially SR fuse manufacturers have come onto these forums to stand up to what BS they (and the magic circle club) say these fuses can do And it's very dangerous for non technical to be playing around with ac mains fuses, and trying them in different directions frantically, forgetting just once to unplug mains before touching the fuse. Cheers George |
In a few of my posts regarding fuse mythology I've asked the question, are all of the wires used in a component sorted for directionality? Wait...I think I know the answer: the answer is no. Moving on...Is the wiring in that jumble of direction chaos possibly self canceling as regards directionality advantage? If a fuse's directionality benefit meets wire (and PC board traces) installed in this random order of direction, how does reversing it (remember, it's generally a tiny little wire relative to the wiring and traces in the component) audibly help things? The likely answer could be "somehow it does" if you spend 150 bucks or so...and remember when reversing the fuse to its supposed audibly "phase correct" position, you should reverse and test all the wire and PC traces (!) in that component as hey, ya never know. Now get busy... |
I have enjoyed my experiment to see if three different fuses would affect the sound in my Pass Labs INT-60 amplifier. To my brain they did. My next experiment will simplify things a a bit more. Today I ordered the Nelson Pass First Watt SIT-3 amplifier. This will be compared to the First Watt F-7 using stock fuses and boutique fuses. So two similar very low part count and simple circuit amplifiers will be used to compare the difference between two different type.output transistors. Then stock and boutique fuses will be tried in both. The SIT-3 amplifier arrives this Friday. The test will be partially blinded in that my Mother will be the listener and she is legally blind. The new amp if she likes it, is her Christmas present. This will be fun. David Pritchard MD |
The new SR Orange fuses are doing just fine in my system at the moment. They have provided more clarity, better dynamics, and more realism overall. They put this lady in the room front and center: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukO46Fibzi4 Highly recommended. Frank |