Pass INT-25, split decision and maybe option?

Sorry bout dat.  Wouldn’t be the first time I was thinking ass backwards.  Still think it’s a gain problem though.

Let me throw in the Don Sachs Valhalla tube integrated as a possibility. I had the Linear Tube Audio z40+ integrated which is more expensive than the Valhalla and I thought the Valhalla was significantly better. It has about 33 watts per channel (you can use 6L6s, KT-66s, KT-77s or EL-34s and it is auto-biasing with a meter to check the bias of each power tube easily in front). It has one balanced set of inputs and a nice remote. I've had one for a few years and love it. It is lush, fast, detailed and adds detail and bass that my previous tube integrateds (the LTA and Rogers) couldn't match. 

I spoke to Lynn Olson at Pacific Audio Fest a few years ago who told me that the Valhalla, in his opinion, was as good as integrateds costing three times its price. Additionally, even though the Valhalla has 33 watts per channel, it easily drove 4 ohm speakers with 88db efficiency in the hotel room it was in. 

http://www.dsachsconsulting.com/valhalla%20integrated.html

For less than the cost of the 25 integrated just add a Schiit Freya + to the XA-25...you'll get more of everything (inputs, outputs, tubes, no tubes, etc.). I use an original Freya with mine (XA-25) and the resulting sound is killer. Gain a-plenty.

I recommend a Prima Luna tube integrated. It’s the easiest way to own tubes, and they sound amazing. You can roll tubes easily without worrying about biasing or flimsy tube sockets. You can choose the tubes that work best for your speakers. If you want the most functionality, go for a PL EVO 300 or 400 integrated. I have a little EVO 100 integrated in my second system, and I’m running a set of TungSol 6550’s to drive GoldenEar Triton 1’s. AMAZING midrange, clarity, and a soft, beautiful top end. The bass drivers in this speaker are powered, so I don’t need to tax the amp that much. Your speakers are pretty efficient, so a PL EVO 100 may be all you need. I love PrimaLuna. I have an EVO 400 pre-amp hooked up to Pass Labs XA 60.8’s in my main system, and I’m driving Dynaudio Confidence 20’s with a Dynaudio Sub 6. It sounds great! PL and Pass make an amazing combo, and I can listen to this system for hours and hours. No fatigue. By the way, I would recommend staying away from ARC products. I’ve had 5 of them, and they were all flimsy, noisy, and terribly overpriced. The best ARC product I had was an old VSi60; it was built like a tank. However, even this amp had a problem with the mute function. It was annoying. But I digress. Make it easy on yourself. Enjoy the music. Contact the folks at Upscale Audio, and they will get you all set. Cheers!

Try Lavardin.  Detailed, but rich tube like sound.

The INT-25 has been returned. It was just not working correctly. I truly tried everything I could think of to make it work, but I'm sure there's something wrong with the gain stage of the amp. With efficient speakers, I shouldn't be able to say in the room with full output of the INT-25, yet I barely hit 90dB at that point. DAC was set at full output (tried both fixed full output at 96, which is max, and variable output which then goes to 100, both set to High output) and nothing... Tried a phono stage (Andover SpinStage) which has an output of 71dB with the Shelter 501 (according to Andover, hence for most applications, I use inline attenuators which I removed for testing of the INT-25), but even with this I couldn't get the volume much more than 90dB at full output.

I spoke to Pass Labs and they're just as stumped as I was as to why it doesn't get loud enough.

I also think this is the root cause why I was so indecisive with this amp to start with... loved certain things about it, but it was lacking something. Bet that was the super low gain in the front end of it...

Did the shop you borrowed it from have the same problem? Are you going to track down another one to listen to?

To @audiojan - There are plenty INT-25 units out there running perfectly well. Well tested they are leaving the factory. I live 15 minutes from Pass Labs btw, tons of it around me. Never heard of this kind of failure before, so once they check it out, will be interesting to understand what they find inside. Bad part or did something come loose inside.

So whoever you got it from or possibly some kind of dropped-box issue during shipping can happen. Would likely require a pretty heavy drop to loosen anything inside - one other guess.

Ask:

Was it brand new or used, and did it come in the all original Pass Labs box and internal packing inside when you received the amp?

@decooney it was used, but I did talk to Pass Labs technical support and they were as stumped as me

To @audiojan The reason I asked about new/used and "factory boxing" is I have been sort of tracking along with different audio things getting damaged in shipping.

Last batch of larger and heavier items I shipped were all hyper bubble wrapped, foamed, double-boxed, after friends having very nice components getting damaged and/or rattled apart inside. .

Ask:

• Was the INT-25 shipped to you in the original factory Pass Labs box?

I may have discovered why this INT-25 is not working well... to get to a volume that’s about conversational, I need to turn the volume up to 50 (the volume goes to 63). I borrowed a new INT-25 from my local dealer (their tech is out, otherwise he could’ve looked at it) and on that unit at about 30 it was quite a bit louder than conversational.

Could it be that I simply struggle with the amp because of a gain issue?!

Certainly, you cannot make any judgements about INT-25 from the faulty unit you first received! Is it possible to retain your dealer’s loaner long enough to make a proper evaluation? Sounds like you have a solid enough relationship to make this happen. It would be a shame to let a (rare) faulty unit dominate your conclusions. Definitely sounds like a gain stage somewhere in the circuit has "crapped out" - maybe passing signal without the appropriate gain.

@audiojan I think you'll get over the distraction.  but it sounds to me like you'll go bak to tubes.  either way, you'll have a good system.

Hi. I recently added a Pass XA-25 amp fed by a Holo Audio Serene preamp. I really do like the clarity and solidity of this combination driving my Klipsch Forte's... Previously I had an Elekit TU-8600S 300B SET amp. The Elekit did some things quite nicely but way too noisy and the bottom end was muddied. I think if you're after tube sound, you can add it higher up in your signal chain.