OT: Espresso machines

Espresso Machine or new 4K Projector? Upgrade my grinder or a new MC cart? Tough choices. 

Thanks for the honesty, @panzrwagn ...👍

Yes, it 'tis....but certain other addictions have made life in these Kinda United States of Beings into a Möbius loop...
You can view them here...

....I've a copy of that...and a loop that I found in a Target'.
Makes a great headphone stand.
The poster a standard warning to the fold.... ;)

Critical listening and altered states ought to be expanded beyond the 'more common uncommon'....but I tend towards practical cynicism these daze...

Buzz on, y'all

J

Agree with so many posters on this thread. There’s definitely overlap and no surprise that there’s connections between espresso and audio, especially when we look at the amount of variables (conical vs flat burr, light roast vs dark roast, Hx vs single and dual boiler, milk drinks vs straight espresso, bottomless vs spouted portafilter, various baskets, RDT & WDT, group head design, etc.) at play and approach to pursuing new and different purchases. 

+1 @chenry regarding cost and entry into the home espresso hobby. +1 @asvjerry for the link back to the Critical Listening and Altered States thread - definitely some similarities (ritualistic for myself regarding the process of espresso and enjoyment of end product while listening with a “buzz”).

More serious espresso nerds move on from Baratza due to the loud noise and the plastic gearbox that can fail over time. 
 

Full circle back to audio, I have a Baratza Sette 30 with micro adjustment mod that’s now used exclusively for our Moccamaster. I specifically moved on from the grinder for espresso because of how loud it was, in addition to its high-frequency pitch level - at one point I started wearing ear plugs. Measured the decibal levels this morning: 92dB peaks (87dB to 90dB constant)!

I am a three year owner of a Jura E8 super-automatica machine with the milk frother and cooler.  I am surprised only one other poster mentioned owning a Jura as I expected more comments about that brand from this clientele. My E8 makes wonderful flat whites and espressos (my drinks of choice) and I use good locally roasted beans too. I was not cheap but I don't know how I have survived all these years without it...LOL

My son got me started two years ago. He’s got a fancy Italian machine. He started with Nespresso too, on a trip to Europe.
 

I came home from his place and bought a Mr. Coffee Espresso maker. I now use the original Flair lever press. I added temperature and pressure gauges to the Mr. Coffee machine while modifying the controls so that I can control the temperature and flow separately. The Mr Coffee doesn’t really make espresso very well, it uses only steam pressure. (Kind of a fancy Moka pot.) Hence the Flair. I use the Mr. Coffee to heat the cup and steam the milk. I’ve got a Baratza for pour overs, but went to a manual grinder for espresso. Spent big dollars on a German Kinu, love it. I hated the loud sound the Barstza makes in the morning when others are still sleeping.

My favorite drink is a good latte. I’ve been trying to do a latte art heart for two years now. I’m getting closer to. . ..

I’m ready for an upgrade, but hesitate to pull the trigger. The Mr. Coffee has a 51mm portafilter, like the DeLongi machines. The Breville machines use a 54mm. Part of the Flair’s genius is the tiny 1-5/8” portafilter all of the above are easier to get good coffee out of than the professional 58mm pucks due to their depth offering more control and dwell time. In my opinion.
 

I’m sure you’ll have fun figuring it all out, Mr. Squires.  

Olympia also uses smaller portafilters (49mm for the Cremina and 54mm for the Maximatic). Both are relatively simple and durable machines capable of excellent results. They aren't cheap, but they are all-metal and built to a standard met by few other machines in the market, and they are scaled for convenient domestic use. Used machines hold value well. The Cremina is a lever machine, which provides a simple and quiet operation. The Maximatic is a pump heat-exchanger machine, which heats brew water from the reservoir separate from the steaming boiler water.

...a friend back when Starbucks was growing like the fungus amongst us liked to refer to them as 'shooting galleries', a reference to his growing up in NYC....

It's a good thing ( Thanx, Martha ) that the tariff terror is subsiding somewhat...
I'd find the most remote cave poss if the coffee imports pancaked and put the US in a major withdrawal fit...😏

Erik - if you’re looking for a smaller footprint and reliable machine, I’d suggest you look at the  ECM mechanica. I have several of their machines (Synchronica (2)  and the Mechanica) for different locations and like them because they’re built by Germans, designed by Italians and ALL of the parts are replaceable. I’ve never had an issue with any of them, but like the idea of being able to use them for decades with modest upkeep. 

2 lattes or espressos in the morning before I do anything. It’s a safety thing,

I second others for the Breville Barista line (express or pro). Used mine the last 7 years...and purchased used. (They're constantly available on used sites all the time and for good value.) Great consumer/prosumer machine for beginning or above average coffee enthusiasts. Upgraded my portafilter to a bottomless with an IMS basket, 53.3mm tamper and puck screen. Pulls great shots consistently and the built-in grinder completes the package. You can spend more, but why at this point?  It literally does almost everything and you still have some control and finesse with every pull. 

I can echo the recommendation for Jura super automatic machines.  Mine is 9 years old.  It makes pretty good espresso and associated drinks. My habit is to drink 6 or so cups a morning. When I finally replaced a part a year ago, it had made over 14,000 cups. Still going strong.

I think around 1996, I purchased a Krups il Primo for a few hundred dollars. It still works today and the coffee tastes so much better than from my Bialetti. Parts are still available on eBay. Anyway, not fancy but it makes great tasting espresso and is  very affordable. 

Baratza is owned by Breville. They make a ton of models. A good “sweet spot” option is the Sette series. 

Depends on your expectations and budget of course. More serious espresso nerds move on from Baratza

Well, as a follow up, the purchase has completely overhauled their parts availability and support so I can no longer recommend Baratza.  They don't respond to requests for help and the parts are drying up.  You used to be able to purchase every single screw that came on your grinder for a reasonable price.  The prices are still reasonable but the availability has dried up to a handful of parts and what retailers may still have in stock. 

I just broke my ring burr holder and needed a new hopper gasket.  Had to order from two different locations.  

I use Fellow Opus grinder but I don’t do espresso. Happy with it. For espresso one of my friends uses Gaggia for the last 10 + years and the espresso is delicious - I had it many times. 
For me at home it’s either Cafe Cubano in a Bialetti stovetop moka pot or French Press. When I’m in a hurry Nespresso classic. Narrow, consistent and convenient. Not a bad cup actually. 
 

link to Gaggia https://www.wholelattelove.com/products/gaggia-classic-e24

I use ECM Mechanika Max with flow control (rotary pump), plumbed with Rancillo Rocky single dose grinder.  This grinder works like new for over two decades, but grinder is extremely important.  Uneven grind produces acidic (too coarse) and bitter coffee (too fine) at the same time.  I plan to upgrade grinder one day.  Something like Mazzer will be used one day by your grandkids.

As for the French Press - aromatic oils carry taste, paper filters remove them.

Main question for the Espresso choice is the way they operate. Cheaper ones create pressure either by spring in the portafilter or narrow orfice, while more expensive machines require coffee to be compacted (right grind) to limit flow and create pressure.  Such machines use three way valve to evacuate water form the portafilter after extraction (dry puck emptied to knock box).  These machines require back-flushing and occasional cleaning with chemicals.  Rancilio Sylvia is good simple inexpensive machine with 3-way valve and 58mm portafilter.  

There is a lot to learn/know, and lose money, but it is not as bad as audio.

@kijanki  - you are right about the paper filters, but apparently the oils they filter out are what makes coffee bad for your heart.  If you drink filtered coffee coffee is generally good for you.  

I’ve gone through a few machines, first some Starbucks labeled OEM machine over 30 years ago, next a couple E61 group machines, a single boiler Quick Mill Andreja Premium followed by a double boiler Izzo Alex Duetto IV Plus. My daughter uses the Izzo and I am rebuilding the Andreja Premium for my son. The E61 group based systems have been around a long time, many manufacturers use the group, making parts and repairs readily available and relatively simple.

I still think an E61 group based system is a solid choice.

With the coffee/beverage bar my wife added when remodeling the kitchen, I negotiated a Slayer Espresso Machine, made right in my hometown of Seattle. My grinder is a KafaTek  MC6, another product manufactured near Seattle. The convenience of having the water supply and drain plumbed has been a welcome addition. Using the Slayer and even my previous E61 group machines is like playing a record for me vs streaming some AI generated play list. I understand many like a software driven machine like the Decent but it was the last type of machine I wanted on our coffee bar. I enjoy the manual control of the espresso making experience and can’t imagine having a big iPad screen ruining my morning ritual Chi.  

I have never owned a lever machine and should have planned for the possibility when we put in our coffee/beverage bar last year. I may still be able to find a way to make one work if I get the urge to try one.

How much are you looking to spend? I recommend for starters a rincilio Silvia. Mine is over 13 years old and still works. I keep it as an extra now as I have a linea mini. But I used it everyday for like 10 years I think before I upgraded.  The boiler is marine brass which is better so you don’t get lead.

Also, the Sylvia makes espresso probably 90% is good as the mini. You really just get convenience with something more expensive.

Also, I would recommend a compak k6 grinder over a baratza. Mine has lasted over 13 years

@dman777   Linea Mini is very interesting machine.  It has unusual design being heat exchanger machine with two boilers.  I guess professionals believe that brewing water has to come fresh.  They call water in the boiler "dead water".  In my ECM Mechanika Max brewing water comes thru heat exchanger placed inside od large steam boiler.  Brewing water is fresh, but temperature is dropping (cold water coming in), especially with double coffee.  In Linea Mini water comes thru two heat exchangers - thru steam boiler and then thru brew boiler.  Steam boiler heats up exchanger to high temperature while brew boiler heat exchanger equalizes it.  That way brewing water is fresh and temperature is even, while steam boiler is at max.  Linea Mini was over my budged (and space on the countertop - it is big), but perhaps one day.  Everything that Marzocco makes is top quality.