Old Vandersteen model 2 vs. newer model 2

Just a thought. If tomcarr is asking a fair price for his 2CE Sig II's I would be all over that. I have owned many speakers in the price range of the 2CE Sig II and they are the top of the food chain. Speakers are very subjective but I would characterize them as very refined. Like getting into hi-fi at a budget price. These are not best buy box store speakers. But you have to place them right...

psyop

I believe the standmount is the 805. I have not heard it, but have heard the 801, 802, and 803.

They sounded wonderful to me too.

I got lucky and was able to get last years model (the D3) new from the dealer discounted 45%.

I certainly couldn't afford them at full price.

tomcarr

I have not heard those 803's but the two models I have heard coming out of B&W have sounded spectacular. One was a stand mount D model.

Keep in mind that older speakers in general are more likely to need re-capping the crossovers, ferrofluid replaced in tweeters and driver surrounds re-foamed. Unless you do that yourself, it can be expensive and a nuisance.  I would buy the newest version possible myself, even if more expensive initially.

Hello 2psyop! B&W 803 D3. 

tomcarr

Just out of curiosity, which brand and model of speakers did you buy?

@ddinnsen - Will be posting for sale here on Audiogon my very nice pair of 2ce Sig II speakers this weekend. Nothing wrong with them. Just bought new speakers yesterday. 

Tom

The conclusion to this story is that I changed to plan B.  Plan A was bring the 2As  home and show to my wife (who is an amazing decorator) at which point she would probably reject them, but I would get at least a week of temporary listening.  Plan B was to show her what they look like before and score husband points, but with high risk of upfront rejection.  

Now I'm going to look for beat-up super-cheap 2 or 3 As to use in my basement where I am the sole decorator, but where I don't listen much.  When I find them I will also do some temporary main system listening.

ovinewar1

Vandy 3A Signature is a special loudspeaker. To my ears, the next significant upgrade is the Kento.

Happy Listening!

I have 2CES, 2CE Sigs, and 3As. I prefer the 3As but between the 2s I don’t find an enormous difference. 

You are never going to get good imaging with two different pairs of speakers firing directly at you. Just a thought....

Have you heard the Moabs? 😉 @ozzy62 

You are never going to get good imaging with two different pairs of speakers firing directly at you. Just a thought....

Ozzy, Your comment got me thinking more that i have not thought this through at the system level.  I did not mention that back when I was trying to decide between the NHT 2.9s and Snell Es I discovered that creating an offset "linear array" with the Snells on a high shelf above the NHTs sounds the best.  They are both bi-amped, so I drive with 4 amps total.  Now that I think about it, this will probably mess with the imaging of of Vandersteens, unless i ditch the Snells.

Right now it sounds quite good despite the room, though imaging could be better, but maybe only in theory, not my room.

I would not be trading tne NHTs but would end up selling what ever speakers are 2nd best after testing.  The vandys are going to have to sound a lot better for me to win over my wife given the decorating downgrade.

I’m not convinced that an older pair of 2cs will be an upgrade over the NHT 2.9s. You might wish you hadn’t done that.

Edit:

After reading the description of your living room, I strongly suggest a nice pair of headphones......

I have the 2CE Sig II speakers and yes they do sound better when out into the room and away from side walls. I added stereo Rythmik subs and that really increased the bottom end (but they were already very good). IMO the 2CEs are the best bargain for high fidelity that Vandersteen offers. They really start to go up in price after the 2CE. To me the Treos, Quattros and up... are too expensive but they do sound very good. There are just too many other speaker brands and designs that one could choose from at the higher price points.

listening sweetspot, or is it, perhaps to a lesser degree, also throughout the room?  This is an important question, because I do not have a listening room, but an open concept house with a large living area, and my listening sweet spot is in front of a fireplace where there can be no furniture.  Also, this room is asymmetrical in that one side of the room functions as a hall, so that one speaker is placed in a corner and the other 4 feet from a wall which is not a corner.

The rentals were mostly square, the condo for 3 years was assymetric, the house for 10 years was symmetric, the house for 20 was symmetric, then new rental is assymetric, and the new house they are going to is assymetric.

They always seemed pretty good.

My business has been hit hard by COVID, so I can't afford the difference to more expensive Treos.  

If one is on a budget… then I would suggest searching for a used set of 2s and a 2w sub.
There would be little to be bashful about once the sounds starts coming out.

I tried an in store listen to some newer Treos and Kentos… they were good. And easier on the decorating front.

I've never been a 'sweet spot' lover. I want a speaker that provides good depth and imaging over a wide field. All the Vandy's I've owned have provided the aforementioned traits (also owned the 3a sigs).

Having an unbalance listening room will require a bit of adjusting in placement as well as angling in/out, but it is doable. Adding some Vandy subs would be one of the first things I would do, when finances improve.

B

May I also ask if you model 2 owners experience the magical imaging only in the listening sweetspot, or is it, perhaps to a lesser degree, also throughout the room?  This is an important question, because I do not have a listening room, but an open concept house with a large living area, and my listening sweet spot is in front of a fireplace where there can be no furniture.  Also, this room is asymmetrical in that one side of the room functions as a hall, so that one speaker is placed in a corner and the other 4 feet from a wall which is not a corner.

My business has been hit hard by COVID, so I can't afford the difference to more expensive Treos.  

I too have a system in my office where I have a pair of Alons that are well placed and I listen there quite a bit and love it.

The VLR's are meant to be placed near corners, and whether in a bookshelf or on stands, they can match the 2's, esp with a Vandy sub (or 2).

I have mine mounted near the ceiling at the corners of the room-Unusual for many, but the only way I can have music in my office. Even without the Hsu subs, they put out a respectable amount of bass. 

Treo's are in the big room, and to be honest, I listen in the office more than downstairs.

Bob

It would be impossible to put them that far out. 

I feel your pain...that's why I have a no wife in the music room rule. 

+1 @holmz 

If you can spring for the differences in cost, consider showing your decor-savvy spouse some good images of the Treo CT's.  In addition to better tolerating near-wall placements, their long but narrow profile seems to work better in many rooms than the wider 2's.

IME, the Vandy 2's are particularly critical of placement, more so than most other speakers. On the other hand, they are very accommodating with regard to amplification.

Thanks for the input!  It would be impossible to put them that far out.  However, if I achieve an upgrade with sub-optimal placement, then it would still be a win.  In other words, I don't need best, just better to keep them.  The NHT's are designed to work up against the wall, so they will have that advantage.

They seem best to me with a few feet of room
(Grabbing the tape measure now…)

It says 45” behind and 55” to the front.

But I sort of moved them around quickly and thought, that seems OK few months ago… So it was not exact by any stretch.

Firstly; I know that the Mrs says that they are always too far out into they room.
Secondly; she often says that the sound is coming from behind the front wall.
And thirdly; that the speakers make no sound, and that all the sound it is coming from between the speakers.

She is an intelligent woman, but the phantom image is outside of her bailiwick of understanding.

…in an 18’ 5" long room. I could stretch that to 13" which is 1/17 the room length…

1/7th of 14 feet is about 2 feet and 1/7th of 21 feet is ~3 foot.

So 1/7th of 18’ should be about 2-1/2 feet I think?

(That is about the minimum IME.)

I will be able to put them with about 12" of space to the wall in an 18' 5" long room.  I could stretch that to 13" which is 1/17 the room length.  I'm married to an excellent decorator who has been willing to make some compromises, but I'm concerned that she will not like these compared to my current NHT 2.9 speakers.  This may be an upgrade that I only get to enjoy for a few weeks.  

Many say that they are better.
Usually people that hear my old ones from ~’84 are amazed.

I just changed phono stage, and believe that I can hear it sound better, but god only knows.I know it is in the rack, so I could be heavily biased.

I think that they are around 5k now new. So a 1k used model, is going to be 98% there and not the 20% that the money would suggest.

if you cannot have them a fair way out from the wall, you would be better off considering a Treo model.
A lot of the family doesn’t like speakers out from the wall, so it is not uncommon for them to get sold on the used market just out of decorating reasons.

Plus there were hundreds of thousands of model 2s made, and those owners either eventually upgrade, or leave them to their heirs… etc.

The only thing I have not changed are the speakers and the TT. Adding a sub is a nice help. Like with a 2W.