Old Legendary tubes vs New Kids on the block Amperex/Siemens/Tele vs Psvane/TAD/Shugaung
Posting this on amps board, as pre tubes can make quite a dif on the amp ound. I just sent off all my oldstock tubes to a guy who will sell them for me on ebay,,I am going all ~New kids on the block~ pre tubes. I am saying goodbye to my fav~ Amperex BB.s The only old stock i am keeping are the 2 tall bottle SQ Philips EC180's which will go in the AU section of the Defy,,i love the cool looking tall bottle of the EC180,'s, But i also bought some Psvane Au's , a sthey look quite impressive with taht double plate at the top,,,Will add some TAD AU's also on wish list, they also have thae cool looking double plate./high tech components. I will roll the 3 labs, and see wich has the finer resolution/soundstage. The 4 AX's will have to be the Shugaung, Maybe later on will add the TAD. The cayin cd17 takes 4 6922's, for those I will go TAD, as they have the cool looking double plates. Which brings up this Q...will the old legends hold their top $ prices going forward, as folks begin cking out the new labs offerings, Psvane/Shugaung/TAD. I've not heard any of the new, as yet, I have the AU's/AX's arriving later this week. Since i sent all my old stock au/ax's off, can't compare to these new labs. Only compare from what i reacll the Defy sounding like with Old stock. However as you guys know i still have that cheap chinese clone which is crippling the Defy's performance. The cayin SC6 is still a ways off, so a true compare could only be made at that time. The cayin has 4 AU's, will roll both TAD and Psvane T series AU's. , Psvane has a new ax out called T series,,,I will buy both the Psvane and the TAD, see which comes out for high resolution of fq's. Have you guys heard any of these newer labs, vs the old legends. On the power tubes, I have EH KT90's and also chinese KT88's i bought cheap off ebay,,so will roll those when the front tubes arrive. Will not rebias the amp,,it will be a justa shortb 10 minute testing. If I like the 88's over the EH90's,,I will add the Psvane KT88 C version to wish list, The C version is the newer KT88 from Psvane called the Classic 88, the older version is called the hifi 88. I will post notes over the comming year as these tests will be ongoing during the year 2020. What say you about these new kids on the block?
Yes I perfer buying from test pics, with better than avg readings,,I love seeing the pointer as far as green as possible, but at times i buy when seller has written scores, super duper high = taking a chance, worth the risk factor... OK , APOLOGIES to all Audiogon menbers on my previous test opinions on the AX's... why I will explain, Received a box of all srts of Siemens E288/6DJ8/7DJ8's, yeah really nice box of tubes, most with org boxes,,anyway,,as i was about to swap tubes in the cayin cd17,,I noted i had 1 channel with the Philips, had a pair of Tesla E88CC's, and the other channelw ith the Sylvania+ RCA 12AX7's, with 1 Tesla and ONE Philips PCC88 = BIAS TESTING = all my previous test opinions are thus] NULL AND VOID,, why? I think, not sure as i am reporting back with a rushed preliminary testing,,that
~~~The Philips + Tesla had a superior sound vs the dual Tesla, = The RCA/Sylvania had the ADVANTAGE of 1 superior <6922> the Philips PCC88, 1970's production, bought cheap off ebay. Now here is the thing, the Philips AX's with dual Philips sounded ~~~awefully good ~~if not spectacular = I will not post any more tests results for at least 2 weeks, as i assess all my tubes which are still rlling in from all parts of the globe, = Need at least 4-5 weeks before i can make a ~~fair/Unbiased/accurate/solid~~ opinion on 1) E80's 2) AX's 3) 6922's.
+ I need to order Tele AU's to compare with Philips/Siemens E80CC's before i can make the judgement that ~~E80CC;'s blow away any/all AU's ever made~~~ So looks like more money on tubes and the Tele AU's , as you know go as much as Tele AX;'s,, which is unusual as Amperex/RCA AU's go cheap. But I may also have to order 2 Siemens AU's to be fair on the wholeshebang in the E80CC vs every/all super high fidelity AU,.. This could extend into months. Stay tuned,,I may posta few NOTES,,but nothing likea ~~solid, bullet proof opinion~~~ But this i can say,,The Philips Miniwatt AX's came ~~alive~~ with the philips PCC88's,, I still have to test the 3 Siemens 6922 variatiosn, E288 vs 6dj8 vs 7dj8's. Purchased Tele AX;'s, more RCA's last night,,,+ I only worked through 3 shipments,,have 3 or 4 boxes sitting ,, not sure what's in them... Its possible the Phiklips Miniwatt's have more value than my previous BIASED testing has shown... Thus the AX shootout, will now include the Philips ~~Philips Miniwatt vs Simens vs Tele vs RCA in several forms I have no idea which will come out top, even or ,,all 4 too close to call = all high fidelity and thus each labs AX's will be slightly dif in each amps voicing. I love the Defy 7 for its ~~~puurity~~ which allows this AX/6922 testing to be as unbiased as possible. also i should confess at this point, i did OK, not great ona hearing exam 4 yrs ago, while working at a refinery doing scaffold work,,,~~highest registers = FAILED> Still this disability does not disqualify my testings. this work is based on some 30 yrs audiophile. Stay tuned.
UPDATE The swiss seller proved to be a *gentleman anda scholar* He went far more than i wanted,,I told him his values are correct,,i misread the values as tested by a friend in Washington state. Told him do not send any money as part refund,,what did he do,,,send $120 in spite of my request. I told him I will help his selling listings , and will buy any/all Tele/Siemens ax's from his ebay listings. This , only is the Tele's /Siemens prove their reputation. I have a bunch of RCA/Tele/Siemens arriving this week. NOS/strong Tele's sell for $50-$70 each. Next yr that price will be $70++ Siemens about the same. Look for a YT upload by sunday night.
FWIW I recently bought a pair of old Sylvania chrome dome 6SN7s on Ebay for $35 shipping included. They were advertised as used. Low power tubes seem to have a long life. Stats that I don't understand were given, but enough to demo that they are closely matched. Seller has great feedback.
They sound fabulous and a real bargain in my eyes.
As someone has already written, with Ebay it is easy to return, and if not as advertised postage will be provided.
Earlier I had sought advice from one of the "well established" providers mentioned above. The pair of tubes (far more expensive) did not sound good at all in my preamp and were returned. Postage both ways was about $20.
I dont understand what risk really exists from buying on ebay. If you pay by Paypal you can send the tubes back for any reason and the seller is more or less forced to accept the return even if they are not at fault. The secret is to say that the tubes are not as described. Ebay supports the buyer 99.9% of the time.
I will confess that I once bought two Valvo labeled EL34 Holland made tubes on ebay from a guy in Germany but he had pics of his test equipment with the tube actually being tested, tubes were in original box, and the brown bases were obviously free from color change due to heat. They are fine tubes but I've not bought any others on ebay.
@ Noromance Yes I understand what you mean now, For me, it takes some time to hear what each set of AX's are doing. You realize most tubes perform very close at 1st listen. Also I need to use 3 or 4 cds which i know very well how the muisc sounds. One day i was driving and flipping through the FM channels, hita country station, the song with female vocals, was engineered with super high fidelity, Super Reference cd, But as always, they never give name of cd. I am using several cds which offera wide range of expression in fq resolution. . Right now, i think the AX to beat is the famous, highly reputed ~~~RCA tall black plates~~~ Yes I know there are 2 models, 50's, vs the later 60's. The 50's is suppose to be ~~Holy Grails~~~ = snakeoil? Not sure/don't know/can't say.
Once all RCA's arrive next week , along witha bunch of Siemens. I will test Siemens in one channel, RCA is the other. I will have 4 of each and so, will swap the pairs around fora full fair evalutation. The Teles will be a future project. The good thing about buying Siemens, Teles., RCA's, is that all 3 have very high reputation and so are not so dif to sell off to get at least near what you paid.
@ Bsmg
Yes I agree, its a bit risky buying off ebay, already had 1 *bad* experience and another ($465/14 Philips AX's NOS??, not sure) i am trying to resolve with the swiss seller. I paid $465, asking $390 and I pay return. Lets see what he says... Best to purchase from sellers you mention.
Well, if you're getting your tubes on Ebay, you are right off playing a hit or miss gig. Unless you purchase from a reputable dealer like Brent Jessee, Tubeworld, Vintage Tube Services, or maybe even Tube Museum, you have no idea if the tubes you're buying are up to spec, microphonic, or otherwise undesirable. As an example of what I mean, Andy at Vintage Tube Services grades the tubes he sells for "line" "moving magnet" or "moving coil" for small signal tubes like the AX7. As for looking at pins, that's pretty much meaningless; I've seen pristine looking tubes that are dead. Appearance means pretty much nothing.
When you say *pinched* how does this translate in terms of muisc? *glassy*? I try to listen for how the dif instruments/vocals are presented. Is the drum symbols rolled off? bass guitar lines, weak vs strong? another thing is this. How strong is the NOS tube? I have 14 Philips miniwatt, seller claims all NOS, my friend cked on his equip, found all ~~USED~~~. Not sure who to believe. But if the Philips are average and the Sylvania/RCA are NOS/strong,,,then this might explain the weakness in the base line guitar of the Philips AX's. ...
This is the problem with NOS, who can be sure what strength the tube really is/
I look at the pins, if i see wear and tear, i know it has been used and not interested.
The black plate RCA is sweet and detailed but a little pinched in the mids and glassy in the upper mids. Look at GE triple mica black plate 5751 if you like the RCA sound.
I did not recommend the T series only the black 12AX7LS (from Grant Fidelity). I did find they sound best in the phono stage but I replaced Teles in buffer and driver stages too. I've been rolling since the 80s so take it or leave it. Don't confuse using the term "burn in" associated with cables, springs, or neoprene gaskets with what happens to electronics especially tubes which literally do burn in. Just think; in a few days your opinion has gone from dumping your NOS to declaring they're the best!
I have the Shu T series AX ($75 pair), even the humble Sylvania's beat out the Shu's T series AX's. ~~~Burn in ~~~ theory i already exposed throughly as <<<100% snakeoil>> I will ck out the Shu Blacks. But honestly, if the Shu blacks were as good to compete with the german tubes (Tele = Siemens, = same resolution). why are we not seeing mention of Shu blacks. Let me take a look, ,,be right back.....
well here i founda discussion of the new kids on the block Psvane/Shu Black LSAX7's, Note carefully that sandand glass asks directly to Josh, the author of the topic<<<<How do they compare to MOS Siemens/Teles??> Josh does NOT give a direct , based on experience/tube roll comment>>> Its all hear say, Not bbased on realexperience, sandandgalss has his <<,Doubts>> about chinese tubes superior to Tele/Siemens..which i also have my doubts, based on my purchases of Psvane AU and Shu T series AX's. No, ain't buying.
what i am attempting to do here in this topic is to bring experienced based opinions on how the tubes compare to each other,,I made another test of the USED (paid NOS price from a swiss seller, in negotiation on part refund) The Philips USED Miniwatts, lacka certain base line which i distinctly hear in the channel with 1 Humble USA made Sylvania + 1 famous RCA black plates,,I think the 1 RCA tall black plate is carrying the day, more than the Sylavnia,,= that test is not as accurate as witha pair of RCA/tall blacks,,have 4 or 5 RCA black/tall arriving next week, I should not have mentioned the Philips Miniwatts (= amperex, same tube), was defeated by the RCA, as i need to sekll the 7 pairs i bought on ebay,,,trying to get at least what i paid. had them tested, NOT NOS/NIS, = USED = <<Good>>>
I tell you the old yubes NOS are going to get real scarce , real soon. = prices are going to get loco.
For all the test "AX" tubes you've gone through, you could have just got a set of Telefunken ECC83/12AX7. They are the best. Unless, you use Shuguang Black 12AX7LS and allow 20 hours burn-in. They beat out Teles in my amps.
I have copies of the entire Vacuum Tube Valley set. My amp uses EL34 output tubes and VTV declares the 80's vintage Tesla to be the best. I disagree and prefer the Holland made EL34 with the twin "D" getters; these could be branded Amperex, RCA, Dynaco, or even Mullard even though Mullard and Amperex were in competition. Siemens never made an EL34; all EL34's labeled Siemens were made by someone else. I've used the original Chinese tubes, the new issue Gold Lion KT77, and the vintage Tesla (not JJ) and to my ear the Holland made EL34 sounds best. Always longed to have a quad of the original Genalex KT77's but these are so rare and expensive they're not really an option for me.
A lot of tubes has been told here. I could add to the subject a lot but please consider that tubes replacement is just a part of the story. How surprised I was when McIntosh C1100 with stock JJ tubes kicked ass to the bottom for all known to me NOS fed preamps. It gave me a lot of to think about. Sometimes hardware exchange is a way better solution prior to tubs upgrade. Hey, i am not saying that i will not upgrade my tubes someday but so far I see no reason to.
To save everyone from searching through the 20 issues of "Vacuum Tube Valley", I'll list some of the better known types used in audio applications. 12AX7/ECC83 VTV #1, #14 300B VTV #3, #8 (EL84 also in this issue) EL34 VTV #2 6L6 VTV #4, #13 6550/KT88 VTV #6, #19 6DJ8 VTV #7 845 VTV #9 6V6, 6AV5 VTV #10 6SN7 VTV #11 2A3 VTV #12 45 VTV #15 12BH7 (and other miniature dual triodes used as vertical oscillator/output in TV sets that have found application in audio) VTV #16 (Under the heading "Dumpster Tubes" by Eric Barbour) Rectifiers for audio VTV #17 7591 VTV #20
well folks, the shoot out has commenced. Just preliminary testing has shown The Shugaung New T Series AX ( $75/pair) *New Kids On the Block* have not stood up to SYLVANIA AX's The Sylvania AX's have not stood up to the 1 Sylvania + 1 RCA tall black plate.
(waiting for a bunch of RCA's to arrive early next week , and employ a pair in one channel)
Now i have the PHILIPS MINIWATTS /AX I am in the middle of this shootout twix RCA Black plates and Philips Mini watts. can not complete testing until another RCA arrives. From preliminary testing, The RCA's will beat out the Philips,,I have 7 pairs of Philips Miniwatts, and will test 3 pairs vs a full pair of RCA's, Will also make sure the testing is fair, by switching the 2 tubes, to left and right channel, just in case the recordings are UNBLANCED, My hunch tells me the RCA Black Plates will top the Philips (= Amperex) AX's. But to be fair, I need more time. We are talking of slight nuances, and so all these tests are minisclue. I look forward to the Siemens which arrive next week. The Teles doubt will ever own, as my tube budget is now bankrupt. I am sure they are nice, but the german made Siemens will be equal. Tiny nuances but they are real. There is indeed a resolution variation twix NOS AX7's. I've heard about the RCA's reputation, and now i am a believer, but need more testing to confirm my faith. Basiclly it will come down to Siemens vs RCA tall black plates. There are rumors the 1950's RCA are superior to later issues ,,,I am not so sure about that. The *Holy Grail* deal to me is snakeoil. well let me go pay for all my winning bids......
I just wanted to say that I think this is a great thread. Here's the reason, and that is that there is a very wide range of experience with tubes on this board. And this is a good opportunity for those who have more experience to shed their no kidding experience with those of us who might be relatively new to tubes. 50 years ago I was running an eico st-70. Then about 40 years ago I switched over to a luxman solid-state. Then about 30 years ago I switched over to Naim equipment. Then there was a time about 15 years ago when I switched over to a dynaco st-70. But I was using a solid-state preamp. Now I'm using the supratek Cortese all tube preamp. And I think it's totally awesome. But I don't have much experience with tubes, or rolling tubes. It's something I'm fascinated with but I don't really have the experience that some of you guys have. So This Thread is really good for somebody whose relative newcomer like me.
Someone noted above that all new tube audio equipment comes with current production tubes. That is because if the manufacturer used NOS tubes the unit would cost hundreds more than it does. The only tubes currently being made are either from Russia or China. My amp came with 8 tubes made by Electro Harmonics; they probably cost the amp maker maybe 80 dollars. The 8 tubes I now have in my amp cost me about a thousand dollars. And some of them are nearly as old as me; 65 years. Those 8 tubes have been in the amp for over seven years.
My link brought me right back to your link, I had to google Pioneering Magazine 12AX and was brought to audiokarma's topic, which gave a link to get to the article.
This would be a good time for reviewing the long out of print magazine "Vacuum Tube Valley" (last issue published in 2003 due to the untimely death of the publisher Charlie Kittleson).
Particularly check issues #1, #14 for detailed articles about 12AX7 and issue #3, #8 for articles about 300B.
Nearly all the common (and some not so common) vacuum tubes used in audio applications are reviewed in depth, both NOS and new (up to 2003) manufacture.
They are PDF files and can be easily downloaded and printed if desired.
Hi mark I like this word, ~~Unobtainium~~~ Not sure what the potential of the Defy7 really is...how to max the design of this ~~esoteric amplifier~~~. The New jadis Defy 100 replaces the Defy7, I think its ugly vs the sblime design of the Defy7. So yeah, 'cayin cd17 mark1, the Mark 2 looks very close design, added a rectifier tube. , near same price as what i piad back in 2004. Seas Thors , kit from Madisound , back in,,,,2003ish. Then we have the clone jadis pre, Lite LS9, has 6 AT's, and several other tubes. After listening to several YT vids with the KT120's, not for me, its too forward, The KT88's offer tons of power and clarity. I think its a bit ofa gimmick the KT120's. at least for home audiophile needs. I'm bidding on a lot of 6 Tele AX's, ends in 5 minutes,,gotta run.....
Mozart, Sounds like fun and looking forward to the video. Question - what's the rest of your system? Aren't the Defy 7's unobtainium from the golden age?
OK just got back from looking at ebay’s listings for Shugaung KT88 ~~~Rediculous~~~ Snakeoil Also noted some so aclled ~~Gold lions~~~ one crazy listing has like $5K /quad. ,,No no no, A KT88 is a KT88 is KT**. Miniscule dif. As another member noted well, ~~~The heat and soul ofa amp is in the preamp, AU section. . The Defy came to life when I added the E80CC.s But I have to confess, running criss crossed speakers wires to the Thor’s tweet (1 black to the mid woofers, 1 red to the wteet= i had no idea what was going on), I decided i will not ~~upgrade~~~ the KT88’s from my current Shu KT88’s , madev for ARC/1990’s, to any other KT88, as all the KT88 listings are overpriced. Shugaung is using snakeoil to push their ~~Super KT88’s~~~. Blind testing, no one could determine which Shugaung is in the amp. I’d rather take ~~tube upgrade $$$~ and put the cash into recap the Jadis with M SGO. = a super mod vs a tube upgrade MINI-mod
EDIT~~~~ OK just got back from cking Psvane KT88's, the CLASSIC Model, their lowest priced KT88's. At 1st glance I was impressed with the build,,so i walked back to my Defy 7 to ck the Shu KT88 build. Appears ~~~Identical~~ = no reason to ~~Upgrade~~, and Psvane also offers ~~Upgraded KT88's for more cash... = Snakeoil. My goal is to expose fraud, scams, lies, false beliefs/opinions which have plagued the audiophiles minds with hype these past 40 years. Once the AX's arrive this week, I will do a shoot out with several labs tubes. I will make a video late sunday night and will post the link here.
Shu GA Looks awefully nice,,,but out my budget atnthe moment,,will have to stay with 1990's Shugaung labeled ARC. The Defy takes 12, = huge financial decision. But will consider
I have a Phi 200 also and I dont use any old stock tubes in this unit. NOS KT88s are stupidly expensive and I have found that rolling the driver tubes usually has more influence on the sound. However, Kevin of VAC swears that you need a matched quad of 6SN7s so I use the stock tubes out of laziness. I do use old stock in my line stage, DAC and some of my other amps.
My two cents: I have tried several brands of KT88’s in my VAC Phi 200’s and have come full circle back to the Shuguang Gold Aero’s that the VAC’s came with. Very elegant, musical sound with great resolution, superb sound staging and zero fatigue. I also still have the factory Shuguang 6SN7’s which seem to be nice, too! While I haven’t tried NOS tubes yet in these amps, I am confident that VAC is pretty particular about the tubes they use. Plus, their cost is reasonable. I have used some NOS preamp tubes in my ARC SP-10 and my CAT SL1 Signature. British Mullards and German Telefunkens. They certainly are quiet, clear and non-microphonic. Maybe better. I’m not sure.
All today's expensive tube gear (ARC, McIntosh, Luxman, Jadis, CJ ...) come with current production tubes!
That is due to the fact that manufactures need a source of currently available reliable tubes. People seek NOS to fine tube their equipment base on their specific taste and system requirements.
Aren't Psvane and Shugaung the same OEM manufacturer? Never heard of TAD- any good? People I respect like the electro harmonix gold pins as the current production tube closest to NOS.
+1 mozartfan! Burn-in is a clever marketing ploy to cheat the neurotic and gullible! Along with cryo treatment, fuses, power cords and AC conditioners!
~~Burn In Theory~~ = 100% pure extra vigrgin Snakeoil. In my 40 yrs, never did i swallow one drop of that 100% pure snakeoil. Tubes/amps/speakers etc, nada. what you hear at 1st crank is what you will hear in 100 years from now. mozartfan aka snakeoil buster.
I often read about the need to let tubes burn in. Shouldn't that guide our thinking and evaluation process to ensure the comparisons are fair? Not sure how much burn in is enough...
-markus I prefer a neutral sound with an emphasis on speed and soundstage. The shuguang we6sn7 in the LTA sounds clear and clean, with defined bass. In my experience they sound similar to the NOS but bigger sounding. I could easily live with either but they have shown to be perfectly capable. On the flip-side, I have not had success with psvane 9 pin input tubes like I have with NOS.
WEll true, cool looking Shu does not equate to superior sounding, I now havea few mods completed, My biwire Thor Speakers now employ TWO separate wires to each speaker post, One Sterling Silver/insu PLUS ONE copper strand/insul = sixteen speaker wires total Not sure how much equated in fq resolution gain, as when i was making this mod, I sadly noted that one the left channel, wires were ~~Crisscrossed~~ that is to say, on the tweet of the MTM Thors, the black went to bottom post of the bi and the red went to top post of bi = completely mixed up....so who can say the sound is superior due to correction of criss crossed wiring, or the added Sterling Silver line to each post??? as now the system is really hi fidelity. There was high distortion going on, which i attributed to the poor build of the Lite LS9,,which was a grave error on my judgement. The Lite LS9 although not a true Jadis 200 pre, does perform very well, almosta keeper, also I swaped out the NOS tall E191CC's/amperex/beckman/ for the stock 12AT7's EH which came with the pre. Far superior the stock EH's to the 7062 NOS tubes https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_7062.html
I should add, the EH AT's have more ~~body~~but lack the super quiet lower gain/forwardness of the E181's. But after further consideration, the details of the muisc can be noted much more clearly in the stock EH AT's. So although a replacement for AT's, the E181 lacks a finesse which the shorter but wider body 12AT7. My shoot out with AX's vs 12BZ7's , went down like this In one very quick shot, the AX's blew away the 12BZ7's as a sub for the AX in the Defy. = Not a sub for the superior AX, lets put that notion to rest. Now with wires crossed correctly and each wire biwired (+ 16 wires total silver/copper) and new Discrete Opamps employed in cayin + 12AT7's back in their saddles + the far superior E80CC vs the crappy AU's performance, in the front 2 slots on the Defy 7 WE are now ready fora shoot out twix the AX's. China /Shugaung T series vs USA/RCA tall black plates vs Holland/Philips miniwatt = amperex BB's (same tube) vs Germany/ Siemens (No UK/Mullards , as i hate british warm sounding engineering/amps/speakers and I assume their tubes are of this muddy sound as well). IMHO all will shoot equally = miniscle dif = a NOS AX is a NOS AX. But then I could be wrong. btw, i want to also try the Baldwin/Wertlizer AX's, as these were specially chosen for high quality perforamnce for Organs. However the Baldwin/Wertlizer seems to be made by RCA. I have a bunch of AX's arriving later this week to complete this testing.
Tung Sol 6SN7GT roundplate (1940s), my favorite tube. Not cheap and not easy to find matched pairs with low microphonics. But this tube does everything well.
jmolsberg - Thanks for that. I notice your reference to the shuguang WE6SN7. What tone are you getting from this tube? I like a balanced tone. Maybe tending towards *rich*. Or phat. I suppose that translates into a fully-fleshed-out midrange. But I don't want a sloppy midbase or deep base. I'm sensitive to annoying treble, but my 66-year old hearing begins to fall off above about 8000-9000 Hz...
I have had success with NOS and new tubes. Which works best depends more on the tone one is trying to achieve. In my LTA, the best combo I’ve found is amperex 7062 and shuguang we6sn7.
I am glad you have a nice supply of vintage tubes. And envy the fact that you picked them up two decades ago so you have a good Supply. But I'm curious what experience you have with the new production tubes to be sure that your opinion is based on fact and experience? I'm not trying to pick a fight, and I'm sincerely asking the question. Have you tried the new production tubes? As a 6sn7 addict I've read a lot of threads where people have gradually come around to really appreciating the new production Chinese tubes. And saying in some cases that they prefer them to the New Old Stock tubes.
@mozartfan, you should check with manufacturer on the use of the 12bz7. They draw twice the current of a 12AX7. They are a drop in equivalent only if your amp produces enough B+ voltage.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
