@shkongInteresting post, OK so you've heard both and prefer NOS.
I have yet to hear the Psvane and Shuganug ,,Both new production look really nice, and although not cheap (paid $150/ four 12AX7's/Shugaung,,,at least i know they are new. From ebay listings on the NOS,,i can not understand all the testing values. nor make sense of what they claimn,,i do not want old worn out tubes.
With new production, you can rest assured they are new.
The amperex BB's that i like in orginal boxes, with full print are $$$$$$$, = not buying.
So please further explain what you hear in the Psvane Acme 300 B *sweeter* vs the WE NOS *wider soundstage...I know its hard to express certain qualities in tubes.
also we all need to keep in mind, the old rule,,what you love in one tube, lacks a certain quality of another.
Also what kind of muisc are we talkimng about. I love full orchestra and needa system/tube which can bring the orch to full , dynamic sound.
any amp can reproduce jazz, chamber classical,,but we know the 300B/845 offers the finest sound for jazz with a FR speaker system,,maybea horn also,,I never went for horn;'s.
300B's on light jazz is phenomenal , but complex full range orchestra, it falls flat.
I presume a 300B tube and a 845/805 do not respond well to alot of fq's comming at them.
Whereas my Defy 7 with 12 power tubes, has no problem at all in whatever muisc.
Back to tubes.
Will be interesting if the latest Psvane/Shugaung geta reputation, might drive NOS prices down to reasonable prices.
Siemens//Tele/Amperex NOS prices are way out of my budget.
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will take a few months to get some ideas about the dif makers of tubes.
I am experiementing with dif tubes that might work in the AX section.
Such as 12bz7 and maybe 12bh7
The E80CC blows away all AU’s ever made.
fact is
The E80CC is
~~The Holy Grail~~~ of all AU’s. Tele/Siemens AU is near worthless next to any E80CC.
now working on finding
the ~~Holy Grail~~ of all AX's.
I am trying to bring audiophile into the 21st century, stripped clean of all snakeoil
Its a 2 year projected plan ahead.
The only thing holding back completion is ~~Funding~~~ |
WEll true, cool looking Shu does not equate to superior sounding, I now havea few mods completed, My biwire Thor Speakers now employ TWO separate wires to each speaker post, One Sterling Silver/insu PLUS ONE copper strand/insul = sixteen speaker wires total Not sure how much equated in fq resolution gain, as when i was making this mod, I sadly noted that one the left channel, wires were ~~Crisscrossed~~ that is to say, on the tweet of the MTM Thors, the black went to bottom post of the bi and the red went to top post of bi = completely mixed up....so who can say the sound is superior due to correction of criss crossed wiring, or the added Sterling Silver line to each post??? as now the system is really hi fidelity. There was high distortion going on, which i attributed to the poor build of the Lite LS9,,which was a grave error on my judgement. The Lite LS9 although not a true Jadis 200 pre, does perform very well, almosta keeper, also I swaped out the NOS tall E191CC's/amperex/beckman/ for the stock 12AT7's EH which came with the pre. Far superior the stock EH's to the 7062 NOS tubes
https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_7062.html
I should add, the EH AT's have more ~~body~~but lack the super quiet lower gain/forwardness of the E181's. But after further consideration, the details of the muisc can be noted much more clearly in the stock EH AT's. So although a replacement for AT's, the E181 lacks a finesse which the shorter but wider body 12AT7. My shoot out with AX's vs 12BZ7's , went down like this In one very quick shot, the AX's blew away the 12BZ7's as a sub for the AX in the Defy. = Not a sub for the superior AX, lets put that notion to rest. Now with wires crossed correctly and each wire biwired (+ 16 wires total silver/copper) and new Discrete Opamps employed in cayin + 12AT7's back in their saddles + the far superior E80CC vs the crappy AU's performance, in the front 2 slots on the Defy 7 WE are now ready fora shoot out twix the AX's. China /Shugaung T series vs USA/RCA tall black plates vs Holland/Philips miniwatt = amperex BB's (same tube) vs Germany/ Siemens (No UK/Mullards , as i hate british warm sounding engineering/amps/speakers and I assume their tubes are of this muddy sound as well). IMHO all will shoot equally = miniscle dif = a NOS AX is a NOS AX. But then I could be wrong. btw, i want to also try the Baldwin/Wertlizer AX's, as these were specially chosen for high quality perforamnce for Organs. However the Baldwin/Wertlizer seems to be made by RCA. I have a bunch of AX's arriving later this week to complete this testing. |
~~Burn In Theory~~ = 100% pure extra vigrgin Snakeoil.
In my 40 yrs, never did i swallow one drop of that
100% pure snakeoil. Tubes/amps/speakers etc, nada.
what you hear at 1st crank is what you will hear in 100 years from now.
mozartfan
aka
snakeoil buster. |
OK just got back from looking at ebay’s listings for Shugaung KT88
~~~Rediculous~~~
Snakeoil
Also noted some so aclled ~~Gold lions~~~ one crazy listing has like $5K /quad.
,,No no no,
A KT88 is a KT88 is KT**.
Miniscule dif.
As another member noted well,
~~~The heat and soul ofa amp is in the preamp, AU section.
. The Defy came to life when I added the E80CC.s
But I have to confess, running criss crossed speakers wires to the Thor’s tweet (1 black to the mid woofers, 1 red to the wteet= i had no idea what was going on),
I decided i will not ~~upgrade~~~ the KT88’s from my current Shu KT88’s , madev for ARC/1990’s, to any other KT88, as all the KT88 listings are overpriced.
Shugaung is using snakeoil to push their ~~Super KT88’s~~~.
Blind testing, no one could determine which Shugaung is in the amp.
I’d rather take ~~tube upgrade $$$~ and put the cash into recap the Jadis with M SGO.
= a super mod vs a tube upgrade MINI-mod
EDIT~~~~
OK just got back from cking Psvane KT88's, the CLASSIC Model, their lowest priced KT88's. At 1st glance I was impressed with the build,,so i walked back to my Defy 7 to ck the Shu KT88 build.
Appears ~~~Identical~~ = no reason to ~~Upgrade~~, and Psvane also offers ~~Upgraded KT88's for more cash...
= Snakeoil.
My goal is to expose fraud, scams, lies, false beliefs/opinions which have plagued the audiophiles minds with hype these past 40 years.
Once the AX's arrive this week, I will do a shoot out with several labs tubes.
I will make a video late sunday night and will post the link here.
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Hi mark
I like this word, ~~Unobtainium~~~
Not sure what the potential of the Defy7 really is...how to max the design of this ~~esoteric amplifier~~~.
The New jadis Defy 100 replaces the Defy7, I think its ugly vs the sblime design of the Defy7.
So yeah,
'cayin cd17 mark1, the Mark 2 looks very close design, added a rectifier tube. , near same price as what i piad back in 2004.
Seas Thors , kit from Madisound , back in,,,,2003ish.
Then we have the clone jadis pre, Lite LS9, has 6 AT's, and several other tubes.
After listening to several YT vids with the KT120's, not for me, its too forward, The KT88's offer tons of power and clarity.
I think its a bit ofa gimmick the KT120's. at least for home audiophile needs.
I'm bidding on a lot of 6 Tele AX's, ends in 5 minutes,,gotta run..... |
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well folks, the shoot out has commenced.
Just preliminary testing has shown
The Shugaung New T Series AX ( $75/pair) *New Kids On the Block* have not stood up to
SYLVANIA AX's
The Sylvania AX's have not stood up to the
1 Sylvania + 1 RCA tall black plate.
(waiting for a bunch of RCA's to arrive early next week , and employ a pair in one channel)
Now i have the PHILIPS MINIWATTS /AX
I am in the middle of this shootout twix RCA Black plates and Philips Mini watts.
can not complete testing until another RCA arrives.
From preliminary testing,
The RCA's will beat out the Philips,,I have 7 pairs of Philips Miniwatts, and will test 3 pairs vs a full pair of RCA's,
Will also make sure the testing is fair, by switching the 2 tubes, to left and right channel, just in case the recordings are UNBLANCED,
My hunch tells me the RCA Black Plates will top the Philips (= Amperex) AX's.
But to be fair, I need more time.
We are talking of slight nuances, and so all these tests are minisclue.
I look forward to the Siemens which arrive next week.
The Teles doubt will ever own, as my tube budget is now bankrupt.
I am sure they are nice, but the german made Siemens will be equal.
Tiny nuances but they are real.
There is indeed a resolution variation twix NOS AX7's.
I've heard about the RCA's reputation, and now i am a believer, but need more testing to confirm my faith.
Basiclly it will come down to
Siemens
vs
RCA tall black plates.
There are rumors the 1950's RCA are superior to later issues ,,,I am not so sure about that.
The *Holy Grail* deal to me is snakeoil.
well let me go pay for all my winning bids......
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I have the Shu T series AX ($75 pair), even the humble Sylvania's beat out the Shu's T series AX's. ~~~Burn in ~~~ theory i already exposed throughly as <<<100% snakeoil>> I will ck out the Shu Blacks. But honestly, if the Shu blacks were as good to compete with the german tubes (Tele = Siemens, = same resolution). why are we not seeing mention of Shu blacks. Let me take a look, ,,be right back..... well here i founda discussion of the new kids on the block Psvane/Shu Black LSAX7's, Note carefully that sandand glass asks directly to Josh, the author of the topic<<<<How do they compare to MOS Siemens/Teles??> Josh does NOT give a direct , based on experience/tube roll comment>>> Its all hear say, Not bbased on realexperience, sandandgalss has his <<,Doubts>> about chinese tubes superior to Tele/Siemens..which i also have my doubts, based on my purchases of Psvane AU and Shu T series AX's. No, ain't buying.
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/new-psvane-12ax7-prototypes.632179/
what i am attempting to do here in this topic is to bring experienced based opinions on how the tubes compare to each other,,I made another test of the USED (paid NOS price from a swiss seller, in negotiation on part refund) The Philips USED Miniwatts, lacka certain base line which i distinctly hear in the channel with 1 Humble USA made Sylvania + 1 famous RCA black plates,,I think the 1 RCA tall black plate is carrying the day, more than the Sylavnia,,= that test is not as accurate as witha pair of RCA/tall blacks,,have 4 or 5 RCA black/tall arriving next week, I should not have mentioned the Philips Miniwatts (= amperex, same tube), was defeated by the RCA, as i need to sekll the 7 pairs i bought on ebay,,,trying to get at least what i paid. had them tested, NOT NOS/NIS, = USED = <<Good>>> I tell you the old yubes NOS are going to get real scarce , real soon. = prices are going to get loco. |
When you say *pinched* how does this translate in terms of muisc?
*glassy*?
I try to listen for how the dif instruments/vocals are presented.
Is the drum symbols rolled off?
bass guitar lines, weak vs strong?
another thing is this. How strong is the NOS tube?
I have 14 Philips miniwatt, seller claims all NOS, my friend cked on his equip, found all ~~USED~~~. Not sure who to believe. But if the Philips are average and the Sylvania/RCA are NOS/strong,,,then this might explain the weakness in the base line guitar of the Philips AX's. ...
This is the problem with NOS, who can be sure what strength the tube really is/
I look at the pins, if i see wear and tear, i know it has been used and not interested.
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@ Noromance
Yes I understand what you mean now, For me, it takes some time to hear what each set of AX's are doing.
You realize most tubes perform very close at 1st listen. Also I need to use 3 or 4 cds which i know very well how the muisc sounds.
One day i was driving and flipping through the FM channels, hita country station, the song with female vocals, was engineered with super high fidelity, Super Reference cd, But as always, they never give name of cd.
I am using several cds which offera wide range of expression in fq resolution.
. Right now, i think the AX to beat is the famous, highly reputed
~~~RCA tall black plates~~~
Yes I know there are 2 models, 50's, vs the later 60's.
The 50's is suppose to be
~~Holy Grails~~~ = snakeoil? Not sure/don't know/can't say.
Once all RCA's arrive next week , along witha bunch of Siemens. I will test Siemens in one channel, RCA is the other.
I will have 4 of each and so, will swap the pairs around fora full fair evalutation.
The Teles will be a future project.
The good thing about buying Siemens, Teles., RCA's, is that all 3 have very high reputation and so are not so dif to sell off to get at least near what you paid.
@ Bsmg
Yes I agree, its a bit risky buying off ebay, already had 1 *bad* experience and another ($465/14 Philips AX's NOS??, not sure) i am trying to resolve with the swiss seller.
I paid $465, asking $390 and I pay return.
Lets see what he says...
Best to purchase from sellers you mention.
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UPDATE
The swiss seller proved to be a *gentleman anda scholar*
He went far more than i wanted,,I told him his values are correct,,i misread the values as tested by a friend in Washington state.
Told him do not send any money as part refund,,what did he do,,,send $120 in spite of my request. I told him I will help his selling listings , and will buy any/all Tele/Siemens ax's from his ebay listings.
This , only is the Tele's /Siemens prove their reputation.
I have a bunch of RCA/Tele/Siemens arriving this week.
NOS/strong Tele's sell for $50-$70 each.
Next yr that price will be $70++
Siemens about the same.
Look for a YT upload by sunday night. |
Yes I perfer buying from test pics, with better than avg readings,,I love seeing the pointer as far as green as possible, but at times i buy when seller has written scores, super duper high = taking a chance, worth the risk factor...
OK , APOLOGIES to all Audiogon menbers on my previous test opinions on the AX's...
why
I will explain,
Received a box of all srts of Siemens E288/6DJ8/7DJ8's, yeah really nice box of tubes, most with org boxes,,anyway,,as i was about to swap tubes in the cayin cd17,,I noted i had
1 channel with the Philips, had a pair of Tesla E88CC's, and the other channelw ith the Sylvania+ RCA 12AX7's, with
1 Tesla and ONE Philips PCC88 = BIAS TESTING = all my previous test opinions are
thus]
NULL AND VOID,,
why?
I think, not sure as i am reporting back with a rushed preliminary testing,,that
~~~The Philips + Tesla had a superior sound
vs the dual Tesla,
= The RCA/Sylvania had the ADVANTAGE of 1 superior <6922> the Philips PCC88, 1970's production, bought cheap off ebay.
Now here is the thing, the Philips AX's with dual Philips sounded ~~~awefully good ~~if not spectacular = I will not post any more tests results for at least 2 weeks, as i assess all my tubes which are still rlling in from all parts of the globe,
= Need at least 4-5 weeks before i can make a
~~fair/Unbiased/accurate/solid~~ opinion on
1) E80's
2) AX's
3) 6922's.
+ I need to order Tele AU's to compare with Philips/Siemens E80CC's before i can make the judgement that
~~E80CC;'s blow away any/all AU's ever made~~~
So looks like more money on tubes and the Tele AU's , as you know go as much as Tele AX;'s,, which is unusual as Amperex/RCA AU's go cheap.
But I may also have to order 2 Siemens AU's to be fair on the wholeshebang in the E80CC vs every/all super high fidelity AU,..
This could extend into months.
Stay tuned,,I may posta few NOTES,,but nothing likea ~~solid, bullet proof opinion~~~
But this i can say,,The Philips Miniwatt AX's came ~~alive~~ with the philips PCC88's,,
I still have to test the
3 Siemens 6922 variatiosn, E288 vs 6dj8 vs 7dj8's.
Purchased Tele AX;'s, more RCA's last night,,,+ I only worked through 3 shipments,,have 3 or 4 boxes sitting ,, not sure what's in them...
Its possible the Phiklips Miniwatt's have more value than my previous BIASED testing has shown...
Thus the AX shootout, will now
include the Philips
~~Philips Miniwatt vs Simens vs Tele vs RCA in several forms
I have no idea which will come out top, even or ,,all 4 too close to call = all high fidelity and thus each labs AX's will be slightly dif in each amps voicing.
I love the Defy 7 for its ~~~puurity~~ which allows this AX/6922 testing to be as unbiased as possible.
also i should confess at this point, i did OK, not great ona hearing exam 4 yrs ago, while working at a refinery doing scaffold work,,,~~highest registers = FAILED>
Still this disability does not disqualify my testings. this work is based on some 30 yrs audiophile.
Stay tuned. |
