Bond,
FWIW, you mentioned the Silverlines use Dynaudio drivers.
I have Dynaudio Contour monitors in addition to OHMs. The OHM sound is not unlike the Dyns, albeit the presentation of the soundstage is naturally different. The OHMs are also full range and deliver more "meat on the bones" without strain, as I like to say, at realistic listening levels which to me makes things sound more real and lifelike as they should. Typically, only larger and certainly more expensive speakers are capable of that. |
FWIW,
In a more apples to apples vein, I use Silverline Sonatinas (great looking, original pre-Avalon lawsuit cabinetry) in my family room. IIRC, they were priced similarly to my Ohm 100s - presumably they're more expensive today. I like the Sonatinas, but it's easy an easy call for the Ohms, running away.
Marty |
Bond,
I never heard the Silverlines but I know they have a great reputation and a good following on this site.
If there is a lower cost design that can challenge them, it may well be the OHM Walshes.
Most tend to think of the OHMs as extremely neutral though.
I would agree but have found that they will reveal the flavor of the electronics behind them quite well, so there are ways to tweak the sound there if desired.
For example, I have used the mhdt Paradisea tube DAC with the OHMS and that provides a healthy dose of tube "euphonics", particulary a lovely and enticing but somewhat artificial amount of presence in the midrange. It can be clearly heard say in comparison to the phono, which also runs through a tubed phono stage in my ARC pre-amp.
Currently, I'm using the SS mhdt Constantine DAC, which is essentially the Paradisea sans tube output stage. The sound with this is much more like my phono stage, ie more neutral I would say.
Rolling other tubes in the Paradisea can also deliver a more "neutral" sound like the Constantine as well, I have found.
I like that the OHMs let you hear what you feed them. It opens up many possibilities regrading the nature of the resultant sound. |
Well, Mapman, I just found out today that my $9K dream speaker is now my $12K dream speaker :-(
The Silverline Audio Bolero is now the Bolero Supreme, with a 33% price increase. This speaker nearly brought me to tears when I heard it at a show years ago. They are not a neutral speaker, but the colorations are intentionally euphonic and beautiful (to my ears, YMMV), with no sense of shrouded detail or distortion, huge dynamic range, gigantic, holographic soundstage and liquid, smooth detailed highs (top-line Dynaudio drivers). And that was in a hotel room with a flee-powered tube amp! The most addictive, beautiful sounding speaker I've heard that didn't have a 5-figure price tag (at the time). My plan was, if I did not like the Ohms, to buy a pair of Boleros used (still much more than the Walsh 2000s) or try to buy direct from Silverline (no local dealers) and get a discount.
This price increase makes a new pair out of the question for me. If the Ohms go back to Brooklyn, I may have a long difficult search ahead of me. I have my fingers crossed with the Walsh 2000s, though. |
Bondman, I'm curious what is the $9K dream speaker you mentioned? |
I hear ya, rebbi. The 2000s were a stretch for me too. But, I'm almost 50 years old, I get almost nothing from keeping the money in the bank, and with the kids about to start college, this may be my last chance for a decent pair of speakers. Considering my long-time dream speaker lists for $9K, if the Walsh 2000s do the trick for $2850 delivered, I will be one happy camper. |
Bondmanp,
Just to be clear, I don't begrudge John a dime of the price hike. I'm just not sure I can afford it. :-/ |
I think rebbi is correct. I was actually thinking about the Walsh 100S3 before the new line came out. In the new line, the 1000 is too small for my room (~2800 c.f.), so I went with the 2000. Given the improvements to the design, the economy, the dollar, and the cost of keeping the entire operation in New York City, the $1100 jump in price (100S3 to 2000) for a similar place in the model line was not outrageous to me. I don't hold it against John that he obfuscated a price hike somewhat by rearranging the line. The bottom line is that very few speaker companies aim for one sound - their best possible - and then just offer different models for different size spaces. Most other companies start with a statement speaker, then make progressive compromises to hit certain price points. Not only do these compromised designs work better in smaller rooms, they don't perform to the level of the statement model. Ohm claims that the goal is the same level of performance from the entire Walsh line, with different models optimized for different sized rooms. I am impressed with that approach, which indicates a no-compromise attitude towards performance.
Besides, the longer expected life span of the new series has serious appeal to me. If these speakers are keepers, I intend to run them until I die or go deaf. |
prior:
micro
100
200
300
5
current:
micro
1000
2000
3000
4000
5000
4000/5000 appear to share the same largest cabinet size similar to 300s and 5s prior.
Not clear to me yet how the new line compares to old line in terms of cabinet size and target room sizes model per model. There does appear to be one extra model and cabinet size overall this time around though.
I've been trying to figure this out myself, Mapman. It looks to me like the 1000 is a new model, somewhere between the Micro and the old 100... The 100-S3 (which I have) has a cabinet which is 9 x 9 inches. I'd originally assumed that the 1000 was the replacement model for the 100, but its cabinet is only 7.5 x 7.5 inches. The cabinet of the 2000 seems closer in size: 9.5 x 9.5. If so, I'm not replacing my 100's anytime soon... that's a full $1100 more than I paid for the 100's. But I wonder if I can just upgrade the drivers? |
I am looking for a second set of speakers, the room is extremly large 25 feet long 18 ft high 15 feet wide. The room also has a balcony that divides the space in half. I am looking for speakers that fill most of space (going to put on balcony or cross beams that come off the balcony and open to suggestions) Budget around 500 (somewhat flexible) 30 hertz would nice but might just get a sub. Using a denon receiver (av not the best but adequate for me) I bought some of those ohm frs 9 on ebay and they are good but not what I am looking for (problems with tweeter). Any help would be appreciated. |
Looking more carefully at the pics of the new line on th OHM site, it appears that there are actually 6 models currently compared to 5 prior:
prior:
micro
100
200
300
5
current:
micro
1000
2000
3000
4000
5000
4000/5000 appear to share the same largest cabinet size similar to 300s and 5s prior.
Not clear to me yet how the new line compares to old line in terms of cabinet size and target room sizes model per model. There does appear to be one extra model and cabinet size overall this time around though. |
Good question, Mapman. AFAIK, the casters are affixed to the plinth base, so you get both. I asked Jay if the plinths sat flat on the floor, since my basement floor (carpeted) is not completely flat. His response was that they come with casters, so an uneven floor shouldn't be an issue. I guess I'll find out when the speakers arrive.
Question for Ohm Walsh owners: Do the Ohm Walsh speakers require a perfectly level horizontal set-up to sound their best? I know other speaker manufacturers are adamant on this point, but perhaps, because of the Walsh design, horizontal leveling is less critical? |
Are the casters a standard alternative to the plinth base?
My impression was that the plinth was used starting with the 100/200/300/5 series in place of the casters used on the larger, older first and second generation OHM Walshs.
Personally I like the versatility the casters provide and I do not hear any noticeable sonic ill effects. |
Well, I finally, FINALLY, pulled the trigger (been following this thread for a long time!) on a pair of Walsh 2000s. Although I wanted a satin black finish, that was not available, so I ordered a black finished wood veneer. I ordered the standard vented cabinet. Note that they still come with casters. Jay at Ohm took my order and was very helpful and patient with my numerous questions. Lead time was quoted as 3 to 4 weeks. UPS to New Jersey is $50. Wish me luck, I'll keep y'all posted. |
The new models look very nice.
One thing I notice though is 5 models now, each increasing in size. My recollection is that prior there were only 4 models.
I could be wrong on this one but I thought that the only difference between 300s and 5s were the level controls on the driver, not the cabinet size. |
Thanks - will stick with the standards vented design. BTW, pics of the new thousand series Walsh speakers, now in production, are now up on the Ohm website. Badda-bing - Bubbinga! |
I use the standard, full range Ohm 100s with subs (now Rythmiks, formerly Velodynes). I use an NHT x-2 to roll off the bass in the 100s and a Velodyne SMS-1 to roll off (and EQ)the subs. Integration is - to my ear - just about perfect. Personally, I'd go with full range Ohms. Just MHO.
Marty |
Why not just get the standard design and plug the ports if/when needed?
That's what I do with my Triangle monitors I use with a sub and it seems to work well.
Maybe run that by JS? |
Getting closer to pulling the trigger on the Walsh 2000s.
One question: I sent my room diagram and speaker selector form into John Strohbeen. He agreed that the 2000s would be sufficent for my room. However, he commented that since I was using subs, he would provide a sealed cabinet, instead of the standard vented one. He mentioned that this would allow for a smoother blend with the subs.
My subs are the Vandersteen 2Wq (a pair). These use an in-line, first order filter between the preamp and power amp. The roll-off starts at 80Hz, so the signal to the mains is down 6dB at 40Hz, 12dB at 20Hz. Vandersteen specifies that the mains must be reasonably flat down to 40Hz to use them with the 2Wq. The circuitry in the subwoofers compensates for this roll-off. My current speakers are Vandersteen 1Cs, which are vented. The blend I have now is completely seemless.
Bottom line: I think John's idea of using a sealed cabinet is based on the higher-order crossovers used by most subwoofers. My inclination is to insist on the standard, vented cabinet to maintain a robust response down to 40Hz. I think I will get the best blend this way. Also, I would imagine the efficiency of the 2000 would decrease if the cabinet were sealed and not vented. Although I have a pretty beefy amp, my room is large, and one major reason for the upgrade is to avoid the compression I get at louder levels from the Vandy 1Cs.
Thoughts, anyone? |
yeah yeah, I know :)
Sometimes it's hard to grasp how silly things sound until I see them in writing. It was a bit like bragging that my display light comes on...
-P |
WOW! 95dB? Be carefull... |
It's always nice to read an update on the Ohm's on this thread.
Right now I'm enjoying a Porcupine Tree binge on my Micro Walsh Talls. I'm even listening a little louder than usual-95 Db's peak. I still can't believe the way these little speakers fill my room. |
|
Yesterday, A friend who went to the recent Paul McCartney concert at FedEx field in DC with me brought over a copy of a very good promotional (or bootleg?) copy of McCartney's performance at Coachella earlier this year that a friend had given him.
We sat down and listened using the Walsh 2 S3s.
He commented on how the sound presentation and quality was very reminiscent of the concert we had attended together. I had the same impression as well.
By design, we had field level seats in the sonic "sweet spot" at the FedEx field concert and the overall sound quality there was top notch for a venue that size.
That was a nice feather in the hat of the OHMs that I thought y'all might appreciate. |
I'd agree that the OHMs are at their unique lifelike best at more lifelike listening volumes.
They can do well at low volumes, but will not differentiate themselves from most other good speakers that way.
Planars and electrostats like Maggies excel at lower volumes where big dynamics are less of a concern IMHO.
I also have a pair of small Triangle monitors that are perhaps as good as I have heard at low volumes. The OHMs are not too far being those at low volumes however. |
Sean,
I use Ohm 100s with subs and find that they are in that group of speakers which doesn't really sing til you turn 'em up a fair bit. Just MHO. BTW, I love the speakers. As trade-offs go, I'll take this one.
Marty |
"How can the Ohm Walsh 5000 match such a wide range of room sizes?"
4 separate 3-way level adjustments including a low bass level adjustment that you set to small, medium or large depending on room size.
"Can you play the Ohm's at lower sound levels and still get involving sounds? Some speakers sound flat and dull unless you turn them up loud."
Yes, but you need a good, high current, matching amp to deliver truly balanced results at low levels in particular. |
How can the Ohm Walsh 5000 match such a wide range of room sizes?
Can you play the Ohm's at lower sound levels and still get involving sounds? Some speakers sound flat and dull unless you turn them up loud. |
Mamboni,
Cool photos; thanks! |
Photos of the new Penny loudspeakers can be found here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/17843311@N00/sets/72157617884848718/
Get a look at those monster surrounds on the front-firing 7" bass woofers. John Strohbeen know how to extract every bit og useful bass out of a reflex box, and then some. Looks like an integration of a microwalsh and a subwoofer in one cabinet - bet they sound sweet! |
I saw a pic of the finalized Penny at the Blue Circle website. I like the look of it. No reason why this speaker won't sound really coming from an Ohm/Blue Circle collaboration. |
FYI for Ohm lovers, the final version of the Blue Circle Audio Penny speakers is complete. This is the only speaker, to my knowledge, that marries Ohm drivers with conventional bass drivers for improved bass response. The Pennys will be at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest in Denver in October in the Blue Circle Audio room. I will have a pair after the show. I retail Blue Circle Audio at Departure Audio. |
Thanks, Aurelius, it is a big help. Simply put, the 4.3, which I think is the same cabinet as the 4.5, is too large for the tight space I must use for speaker placement. In the meantime, John Strohbeen has reviewed a diagram of my floorplan, and told me that the new Walsh 2000 (which is only a 9" x 9" footprint) should work fine in my situation. Ordering will probably be next month, so I will post my experiences going forward as they happen. |
Here ya go Bondmanp,
My Ohm Walsh 4.5 S3, the originals with the new S3 drivers measure 3' 4 3/4" tall with the grills, from the floor. At their base they are 15 1/2 inches square and taper to 13 1/4" at the base just below the grill. Hope that helps! |
Question for the Ohm-o-philes: One possibility for my foray into Ohm Walsh speakers is the Walsh 4.3, which is a 3000 driver in recycled Ohm Walsh 4 cabinets. Ohm's web site does not have the dimensions of this speaker posted. Can anyone supply them for me here? I like the 9" footprint of the 100/2000 cabinets, but I must admit, getting a Walsh 3000 driver for the price of a Walsh 2000 is appealing. However, space is limited. FYI, room is ~2800 cubic feet, which is in the overlap zone between the new Walsh 2000 and Walsh 3000. Thanks in advance. |
Hey Bond - I never had the ability to compare the vandys and Ohms in the same room - but I demoed the vandys quite a bit, when I was interested in a pair of Meadowlark Kestrels, a few years ago. Those two speakers where in the same room, and it was that demo period that hooked me on time-coherent type speakers.
The Ohms have that same, open, effortless, natural sound (IMO). I've never seen the step response test of a pair of Ohms (would be interesting to see) - but I emailed John and he said that the drivers are mounted to be in time from the listener and the supertweeter has a simple low pass filter to keep the two drivers "in phase".
If I ever need subs, I'd most-likely go for the vandy subs in stereo. |
Thanks, Parasound and Zkzpb8!
Parasound - I am a firm believer in burn-in of speakers, most electronics, phono pickups and, to much lesser extent, ICs, speaker cables and power cords. Although I want to let them run in while I am not around, I get nervouse with my preamp being on too long when I am out of the room (tubes, smoke, fire, yadda, yadda), so I will keep them running as long as I am awake and at home.
Zkzpb8 - I also have a pair of Vandy W2q subs that will remain in place with the Ohms (the W2q is an amazing subwoofer, if you value musicality and seemless integration over brute force). Were you able to directly compare the Ohms with any Vandersteens? If so, which models? Indeed, if $2800 will take me off the upgrade path, it will be money very well spent - then I can upgrade the rest of my system
;-D
Thanks. |
When are the new models actually supposed to be shipping? |
Hey Bondmanp! I really like Vandys, and I'm an even bigger Ohm fan (I chose MWTs over the 1C).
There IS some kind of deal out there for you. They're a great investment. The thing I like about Ohms, is all of the money I've saved by buying them when I did. Otherwise I'd have been on the speaker merry-go-round for the last 5 years... |
Bond-
Pretty sure you'll be pleased with them. I'm not sure how you feel about the theory of the break-in period. I myself was a non-believer until I got the Micro Walsh Talls. They sounded great right out the box, but the tonal quality definitely changed over the course of 100 hours. The change greatly affected placement My point is, even if you disregard burn-in as bunk, be prepared to break them in for about 100 hours.
At any rate, a comparison with the Vandy's also sounds interesting They were on my short list before I went with the Ohm's.
-P |
Thanks, Parasound, but I won't have the cash until a bonus check on August 31st. FYI, only my preamp is C-J. My amp is the Odyssey Audio HT3.
Mapman - this must be a no-risk trial for me. I can't spend that kinda money without a way out if they aren't everything I hope they will be. Ohm's 120 day trial is the only reason I am even considering the purchase. Buying used for an upgrade or trade-in means too many complications if I do not like the Ohms in my system. Plus, I admit that I like the idea of rounded cabinets and improved finishes. I don't mind spending the $2800, if the 2000s are all that I hope they will be (in fact, they'd be a bargain at $2800 if they produce the same reaction from me as the Roman Audio Centurians or Silverline Boleros). My current speakers, Vandy 1Cs, were bought new at full retail nine years ago. For the money, it is still one of the better speakers out there, and was maybe the best for under $1000 nine years ago. I do not regret paying retail at all: If a product offers good value at its list price, I am fine with paying retail. |
And if I remember correctly, I believe Ohm still has updated models available for reduced cost or possibly some remaining S3's or Super 2-S3's, which are updated Ohm 2's. I wouldn't wait until Fall to give John a call
By the way, there is a nice looking pair of Ohm 4's up for bid on ebay- recently serviced by Ohm.
In any case, I can't wait to read your impressions of any Ohm with the Conrad Johnson!
-P |
Bondman,
I suspect there are still ways to bring the cost down.
You can pick up used OHMs with good cabinets on Ebay or here and get them upgraded.
Or you can pick up up to two pair of used OHMS cheap that meet OHMs trade-in requirements (in general, cabinets are refurbishable) for value up to 40% off towards something from them and do that (that's what I did for my F-5s).
Or you might just pick up a pair of older second hand OHMs that work and get a flavor with those. |
Parasound63: Funny you should say "I haven't listened to this much music since I was 16." That's exactly what I am looking for. My current rig is not bad, but I never have long listening sessions, usually switch to watching movies, and rarely listen to a complete album. I guess that's classic listening fatigue. When I was 16, I would listen for hours to my system (Kenwood receiver, Technics 'table with cheap Stanton pickup, or Superscope Cassette Deck and New Large Advent Utility speakers) for hours. Surely, this was, at best, mid-fi, but I loved listening. Although time is a more precious commodity these days, I long for a speaker that i can afford that will make me opt for music over video.
Until now, only two speakers I have heard under $10K convinced me that I would listen more often if I had them. One, the Roman Audio Centurian (~$6500 when last available) is out of production. The other, Silverline Audio Bolero, is pricey ($9K list, but probably lower street price).
Based on this thread, I am going to try to get the boss's approval to try out the Ohms. Unfortunaley, based on J.S.'s latest email, the price of entry for me into the world of Ohm just went up from $1700 to $2800, if I have measured my room correctly and understand the room-size application correctly. But $2800 is still a lot less than the other two speakers, so come this fall, I hope to contact John and order a pair od 2000s (or the 1000s if John thinks they will suffice).
If I have the kind of reaction to the Ohms that you, Rebbe and Martykl got, perhaps it will be my last speaker (especially given the 40-50 year life-span of the new line, which is probably longer than my own).
I will keep this thread posted as things progress.
Meanwhile, I am dressing up the acoustics in my room and just got my preamp back from a factory refresh at Conrad Johnson. I want to make sure that everything else is in place before I order the Ohms.
Thanks again, everyone! |
Same here!
I couldn't be more happy- I haven't listened to this much music since I was 16.
I had two friends over this weekend (both of whom bought a set of my old speakers) It got a bit awkward as they realized that the Ohm's were superior to the ones I sold them, but not for long. We had a great time, and listened to music until about 1 am.
Now I'm moving on to learning about the wonderful world of DACs and music servers.
Thanks to all!
-P |
I bought 100s on the basis of an Ohm thread - I think it was this one. I'll pat myself on the back for buying and also thank the experienced members of the Ohm community for the good advice in recommending them to me.
Marty |
This thread's been sort of quiet lately so I'm giving it a shameless "bump." Anybody get new Ohm's lately? I'm curious as to how many of you bought Ohm's as a result of this thread... :-) |
"Hey Mapman whats going on with the Class D speakers for the Ohm 5 S3s?"
You are asking about a Class D amp, I assume.
I will most likely try one someday when I feel the need to upgrade to more power/juice, but frankly, I'm quite pleased where I am currently with the Musical Fidelity A3CR so no rush. It has been a big time over-achiever at 150w/ch.
My motto is if it ain't broke, don't fix it, and I am in very good shape amp and speaker-wise at present. |
Hello Everyone!
I have read with interest this thread about the Ohms and would like to add my two cents to it.
I am the owner of Ohm 4s with the new 5 S3 upgrades I put in myself. In hopes of getting it a great sound, I purchased an ARC REF3 (Thanks Mitch4t!) and a Pass Labs X350.5 (lots of saving up and scrimping).
When I first fired it up I was disappointed with the treble because I listen to a lot of jazz, and like the sound of lifelike cymbals and triangles.
But then I remembered the John Potis articles about these same speakers, that they need to be broken in so some patience was required.
I had written to John Strohbeen about the treble and he said "Break in takes time, although the treble doesn't change much." He doesn't use metal domes for the metallic sound but instead uses a tweeter that has a "linear response beyond 20,000 Hz"
At about 68 hrs everything seemed to open up. The midrange was excellent, piano, voice and bass (although some might prefer a sub woofer, in my case its great as it is). The treble I'm beginning to think depends on the CD recording. On some CDs its great, on others, meh.
So far I am pleased with these speakers but was curious about the 5000 series, so I asked John about them and his response was "The new 5000 are better, but in an evolutionary way, not a dramatic improvement. I do not recommend moving up only one model; but wait and consider the 5000s replacement in a few years."
Just thought I'd add some thoughts to a remarkable product. There may be more expensive and better speakers on the market, but for my money I think the Ohms are a fantastic deal.
P.S. Hey Mapman whats going on with the Class D speakers for the Ohm 5 S3s? |
Okay, raise your hand if you're tempted to upgrade! |
