Ohm Walsh Micro Talls: who's actually heard 'em?

A friend had some EPI's back in the late 70's. Had them on stands. It was the first stand mount I'd seen. I really loved those speakers and envied him. They were the best I'd heard to that point.

Yes! Mapman, we've emailed several times and I had no idea you were into Yes. Yes is one of my all time favorite groups! For me "Yessongs" has been the holy grail Yes recordings sice the 70's when I was introduced. I will eventually have a pair of Walsh 5 Series 3 with upgraded drivers and I am looking forward to listening to Yes on them. (in addition to my hard bop)

I have a pair Walsh 5 S3's that will soon be on the way. Pairing them with a Blue Circle BmPH. I'm hoping this will get me off the merry-go-round.

What size room, by the way? And what finish on the speaks?
Rebbi (Threads | Answers)

Rebbi, my family room is rectangular (stuffed with furniture) 11X18X8. The Walsh 5 S3 speakers will be on a short wall on each side of a fireplace. They have the rosewood finish.

For music, I would say vocals and piano would probablay help you evaluate the sound. For positioning I'd be looking at the position where the soundstage would be the widest and deepest and yet not sacrifice too much low end, but that's just me.

Waxing poetic Parasound! You're a lucky fella to feel that way.

Mapman, I mentioned this before but I'll be using a Blue Circle BmPH 160 @ 8ohms, 240 @ 4ohms. So no doubling down here. I'll be using it with the Walsh 5 S3.

Finally received a set of very customized/upgraded Walsh 5-S3 with prototype 5000 drivers modified for extra treble. (this is John's description). Will set them up after work today. I was just too out of it after work yesterday. Looking forward to it.

Mapman, sent you an email regarding the Ohms.

Mapman, I went to buy a pair of C2's back in the 70's; had money in hand. Got there and the dealer was out of stock and some kind of strike somewhere meant they didn't know when they would get more C2's. I was very disappointed and had no patience. Went directly to another shop down the street and bought a pair of ESS Heil AMT instead. Those ESS were very nice but I always wondered what I was missing in the C2's.

Hi Parasound, like you I've abstained from posting about my experience with the Ohms during this interim period. I've waited while they settled in. I've been moving them around a bit, adjusting the controls, and changing speaker cables, while waiting for them to reach their potential in my room. I have the Walsh 5 S-3's with prototype 5000 drivers. Mine were additionally modified by Ohm (John) for increased highs (treble and air). I never heard the Walsh 5 S-3 speakers before Ohm went to the 5000 drivers so I can't compare their performance to the previous Walsh 5 S-3's, but I've finally concluded these speakers are the best I've had in my house.

My Walsh 5 S-3 5000's (that's what I call them) excel at detail, high end, air, and midrange accuracy. The bass has not reached its potential in my room yet, but is also detailed, accurate, fast, with some weight. Using my current integrated amp and in this room, as yet they aren't playing with as much bass weight as they can. In my opinion my Blue Circle BmPh integrated is not sending the 5000's quite enough current to really move maximum air in the mid bass and low end. I'm in the process of getting a new integrated with more current and power that doubles down. Then I'll see (hear) what the 5000's can really do in the low end. Even now though I'm very happy with the 5000's because they're very resolving, with lots of detail and air and and now I appreciate what others have said about "the magic being in the midrange." Never heard such excellent, clear and detailed midrange performance before. These speakers are as clear as a bell. I'm sure the best is yet to come. I can highly recommend these latest generation drivers from Ohm.

Thank you Rebbi! As my system developments continue with the 5000's I'll post updates to this outstanding Ohm thread. (the most informative anywhere!)

I saw a pic of the finalized Penny at the Blue Circle website. I like the look of it. No reason why this speaker won't sound really coming from an Ohm/Blue Circle collaboration.

You have to admire the kind of honesty that would lead someone to discourage an "up sell" to an existing customer!

Yeh, John S. is a down to earth person, and in my experience is not in the business just to make money on the next sale. I dealt with John by phone and email more than any other manufacturer and I like him. He treated me well, and more than fair.

Hi Mapman, yes, I have new electronics with the Walsh 5000's. It's been a long process. Sent my drivers back to to Ohm thinking there was a problem with the highs but it was actually that the tweaks to the drivers I originally asked for made them too bright. The drivers were perfectly fine. John adjusted the drivers and that has worked out well. While the drivers were at Ohm I purchased a high current/high power amp and yet this hasn't been a slam dunk. In my room the bass has needed improvement and finally after settling of the new system has filled in nicely. But my limited placement options causes the speakers to be too close to the front wall and too much in your face. I decided to go with a parametric equalizer since my room has been a bit too small and cramped to really work well with lows and highs of the 5000's. After years of eyeing this eq on numerous online web stores, I saw a used Avalon AD2055 and purchase it; waiting to receive it and with the flexibility the 2055 provides I fully expect this to take the system over the top.

Bondmanp, I think the distance is a bit of an issue but not too bad. I have my 5000's about 5 feet apart and about 2.5 from the side walls. Just don't have more space. I think my room is somewhat small for them and the soundstage could be bigger but the room is limiting that somewhat. Maybe in the future when I move to a bigger home....
Mapman, yes I'm using the McCormack DNA-500 amp and VTL 2.5 preamp. I still don't think I've maximized things. One thing I enjoy about integrateds vs separates is not dealing with extra interconnects, power cords and coming up with the right preamp for the amp!

Rebbi, if you can wait for one to come up as they seem to, the VTL 2.5 is a preamp that's inexpensive used. I recently purchased one and mine is very quiet and has that tube sound with a dimensional quality.

I find the treble on my Walsh 5000's to be clean, resolved and extended. But it will all depend on what's going on upstream. My expereience with the Walsh drivers has been that the highs can sound recessed if gear upstream does not match well and if your amp is lacking in current. The 5000's require current, watts, the right cables, you name it. I have been going through trial and error to dial in the sound. Now that it appears to be dialed in the supertweeter up top is the cleanest and most grain free of all the speakers I've had. These are super smooth in the top end but you can sure here the blat of trumpet or the grit in the reed of sax.

Mapman, the DNA-500 is finally working out well. It would appear on paper that the 500 paired with the Walsh 5000 speakers would be an easy slam dunk. But we know that what's on paper is meaningless. I have still had to do plenty of experimentation to get the system sounding special. It actually has taken a power cord shuffle on the amp, and the addition of a top flight parametric equalizer that I've reconfigured several times. Getting the 5000 speakers to sing with force and power has not been easy (partly its the room). Finally, last night I was listening to a Horace Silver disc I recently purchased, "Paris Blues," and the beauty and refinement of this live recording hit me hard on an emotional level, really sounding incredible! I never felt anything like this before listening to music on any earlier rigs. Other guys have mentioned experiences like this, but I never experienced it before. The funny thing is I had the World Series on my TV with the sound turned down, but the game was almost irrelevant since "Paris Blues" was tearing me apart.

It's difficult to compare the Walsh 5000's and Blue Circle solid state integrated with the 5000's and the McCormack DNA-500/ VTL preamp. The tube VTL preamp makes a difference in the presentation of the 5000 speakers. There is a new depth to the sound now, especially horns, and I listen to mostly classic jazz of the hard bop variety. My new setup has also taken away any high end grain I heard ocassionally with the BC integrated. In fact, I would say that the sound I hear now from the 5000's is the smoothest ever. So I will say that compared to the solid state Blue Circle integrated, the DNA-500, VTL 2.5 is more smooth in the upper mid range and highs but still very extended. The low end and mid bass too has more presence at higher and lower volumes, but the current and wattage of the DNA-500 should and does account for that. The affect of the Avalon parametric eq has to be taken into account also. I would say the DNA-500/VTL/ 5000 combination is not as crisp sounding as with the Blue Circle integrated I previoiusly used. The DNA-500/VTL combination provides more sonic weight and impact to the music however. That's as much of a comparsion as I can make.

Rebbi, I concur with Mapman that you would do well to consider a tube preamp. VTL is one to look at. If one becomes available, a VTL 2.5 will be under $1k. Tubes have added a naturalness and "realness" to instruments in the jazz I listen to.

Spoke to Matt at Bel Canto today. He says that what's called for is a preamp with an impedance output of between 50 and 100 ohms

- shrink and center the quoted text

Rebbi, there are a limited number of tube preamps avaiable that will fall in the 50-100 output impedance range but if a Bel Canto rep says it, then its advisable to stick with that. I'd steer clear of preamps with output impedance in the thousands if I were you. The Juicy Music preamps do have variable output impedance that can be swithced to low output impedance.

Mapman, I will eventually replace the tubes. No other speakers to compare with however. Thanks

Hello gang. I've been working with my Walsh 5000's and although I thought I was on the way to getting their performance right it's turned out to be a no go. The 5000's are inefficient and need high current and high power, particularly to play them and get good bass-fill at lower volumes. As some of you know I have the McCormack DNA-500 and a VTL 2.5 preamp. The DNA-500 is high current and 500 per side at 8 hohms. I like to play my setup at low volume sometimes and enjoy the music, thus the high current amp. At low volume the bass weight and fullness is not there and it should be with a high current amp. Now, you might say, "it could be your room or it could be speaker placement issues.". But I've heard the Walsh 5000's play with bigger bass in this room and in their current position in the room. The problem is that I've only heard them play with bigger bass when I've reconfigured some interconnects or power cords within the system. (When I powered up the system and the cables and system were settling back in after a reconfiguration) In other words, while the system was settling in after cables have been moved around there have been times when I heard these speakers play with the kind of low end weight I'd expect from speakers this size. But in my experience, the sonics of a system are never stable while cables and gear are in the process of settling in. Once everything in the system settles downs after reconfiguring cables, the sonics then stabilize. This can take a day or two. During that time I've heard the 5000's move more air and play with more bass weight, but as thing settle in the low end weight decreases. This has happened several times as I've experimented with cables and configurations and has been disappointing. But what this experience revealed to me is that the speakers have the capability to produce more and bigger low end weight in this room and in their current placement. So it's not the speakers, the room, or their placement holding back the low end. The question is, what to do? Change preamplifiers, power cables, or interconnects? I find it hard to believe that this high current amplifier could be the problem. I know that amp speaker matching is always a key to performance, but it does not seem possible in this case. I'm looking for answers.

Foster_9, I'm at a loss. Rebbi

I know what you mean.

The DNA-500 has more than enough power and current to drive the Walsh 5000s. This must be a placement issue. Mamboni (Answers)

The speakers have played with better low end reinforcement in their current placecment, but after the system was on for several days and cables and equipment had settled in, the low end diminished. I've observed this several times.

Foster, also I do not recall if you are using any power conditioning device? Could something in the hookup be out of phase? The other thing that comes to mind is to make sure the driver is tightly secured to the cabinet. How are your drivers secured to the base? Is there anything that might need tightening? Mapman (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers)

Mapman, I don't use any power conditioning. I checked and double checked the phase and it's correct. Tightening down the drivers may be an issue; I think the drivers do need to be tightened down. I will take care of that. The drivers are secured by philips head bolts.

IMHO, if you like to listen at lowish SPLs, it's entirely possible that Ohms just won't be your cup of tea. I do, however, have a simple solution - just listen louder! Martykl (Reviews | Threads | Answers)

Marty, you may be right. I still think the speakers have the capability to play with good low end at lower volumes but some tweaking for optimization of the system must be the way.

Thanks Newbee, Almarg has been saying similar.

Mapman, I'll email you.

Mapman, Wyred ST-1000 will soon be shipped. Will compare to the McCormack.

Mamboni, I assume the ST-1000 amp must be doing yeoman's work with the 5000's as it did with your 5 S3's. How do you like it? I've had the ST-1000 amp since Friday. Been running it 24/7. Are you using a tube preamp? I'm using a VTL 2.5. I emailed you about the ST-1000 but never heard from you.

Mapman that is sweet!

Frazeur1, these have Walsh 5-S3 cabinets which means they don't have the rounded corners; the drivers are pre production 5000's.

Thought I would check in after a long hiatus from this thread. Not much to say previoulsy because I've been struggling to get my setup to sound good with my Walsh 5000 protoypes in my room. It's no fun to report when the struggle is ongoing. So I've been quiet. Been through different amps and preamps. I can finallly report that I've turned the corner and good sound is in the house with the W4S ST-1000 amp and newly added Cary SLP-05 preamp. The 5000's really do holography, imaging and dimensionality that I had not heard previous to the addition of the Cary and I haven't even rolled tubes yet. The Cary has brought a new level of palpability to the Walsh speakers.

Hi Al, yes the expense has been for me more than I would have wanted or ever thought of before. But you can't quit. For bass the room seems to be bad with the speakers flanking the short wall. Top to bottom bass included however has improved at least to the point that I can live with it. The sound is much more fleshed out (fuller top to bottom) in general with the new preamp and clarity too is a big improvement. And I always have subs if I decide to turn them on for stronger lows.

I haven't posted to this thread for a while as I've been changing components over (and over again) the past year. I have Ohm Walsh 5000 prototypes in 5-S3 cabinets. It has been months of changing out electronics, cables etc. and listening to get to this point. More than once, I thought I knew what the Ohms were capable of; The Ohms proved me wrong. In my experience, they have more to offer as you match your gear and move up the electronics food chain. They are very neutral speakers. My Ohms have been much like the proverbial "chameleon." The quality of their sound has changed and improved as the system of electronics in front of them has been optimized. Others, (Mapman) have noted that Ohms have the ability to be better with better gear. As I have matched and upgraded electronics, cables, and even my ac outlet, the sound of the Ohms improved in quality too. I spoke to a very high end dealer once who bluntly stated "you need different speakers." That's been a recurring theme I've read and heard. I don't know about older Ohm models, but the modern Ohms are quality.

There is a lesson I have learned. System building takes more patience than I like. Seems that sometimes it takes more time, trial and error than I wanted to deal with. I didn't know these speakers could be this good but I continued to experiment with different electronics, power cords etc. As I went through component changes, I thought the sound of the Ohms was improving but realized it was still unsatisfying. I practically gave up. But, I learned that you have to stick with speakers sometimes and continue to experiment upstream. One find along the way was Auricle Audio interconnects. They are great and a bargain! The other find was the Maestro ac outlet some of you have read about. Each of these has contributed to the enhanced performance of the Ohm speakers in my system. The sound quality of the Ohms can go where you take them.