Mapman said:
You are using the 500w/ch Wyred4Sound amp these days I think I recall?
How do you like it?
Any chance this is too much power for the 5s resulting in the driver damage you report?
The 500w/ch Wyred is probably the most powerful amp option out there that I have considered and I'm wondering if it is overkill, and 250w/ch or so is plenty.
Yes, I am using the Wyred4Sound St-1000 which is nominal 550W/ch into 8 ohms. These amps are the first to really take hold of the power-hungry Walsh 5's and put them through their paces. The Walsh 5's have peak power in excess of 500W so I do not think this is too much power. I certainly am careful not to overdrive them. However, I have played full orchestral works with organ where there are rare 95-100 db peaks. But the average sound level is typically 75 db and typical peaks around 95 db.
The problem is in the left channel head unit. The woofer and tweeter sound perfectly fine, so this is not a case of fried driver or damaged voice coil per se. There is a buzz coming out of the speaker, centered around 1-2 khz I'd estimate, that occurs intermittently and is hightly frequency dependent. The following source materials evince this buzz, which sounds like a resonance:
1. Piano - only some recordings and at one keyboard note
2. female soprano voice on some recordings
3. french horns and trombones playing around concert Bb (horn's F at the top of the staff)
4. some organ recordings
My guess is that is is a loose soldier joint, board component or even a loose screw or plug - that's what the buzz reminds me of. I don't abuse my Walshs but they do get a lot of use. I log easily 3-4 hours listening per day; on weekends that might be 6 hours. And I lean towards full orchestral and organ recordings, so the Walshs get a workout. I've owned Ohm loudspeaker for many years and they are true workhorses - well engineered to operate trouble-free in the field. But after several thousands of hours of being subjected to vibrations, something is bound to loosen.
I'm compiling a CD with various tracks that evince the "buzz" so John at Ohm can hoepfully identify the fault.
BTW: I spent several weeks doing inventory on my listening, moving and removing any object which might be resonating and the source of the buzz - to no avail. I am fairly certain it is coming from the driver head unit.
I discovered the problem several weeks ago when I was driving the Walshs with my Sumo Andromeda II amps (240W/ch into 8 ohms). When I described the problem to John at the time he suggested that the amp might be clipping - he informed me that the power peaks on piano strikes and female soprano can be wicked, even at moderate listening levels. Nevertheless, the problem is virtually the same with the much more powerful ST-1000, so I don't think clipping is the problem. And I never had this problem with my original (classic) Walsh 5's. |
If you want to experience the non pareil imaging and soundstaging that the Walshs are capable of, you need only purchase and listen to any of the many excellent Mercury Living Presence reissue CDs. While I have Reference Recordings, RCA Living Stereo, Everest Ultra-anolog and Chesky CDs that sound excellent on the Walshs, the Mercurys are consistently in a class by themselves. |
A while back I wrote a review about the Walsh 5's wherein I likened their soundstage to Carnegie Hall (the old hall that is, the one that the architectural genius Tuthill designed and built, before Stern and his nouveau renovators ruined it into just a 'good' hall), front mezzanine center to be exact. I performed at Carnegie and attended concerts there. The magical quality about Carnegie is the combination of tons of scintillating air, a vibrant yet critically damped acoustic, and astounding lucidity of instrumental and vocal articulations. In the old Carnegie, one could sit on stage rear and hold a conversation with someone sitting in the balcony without hardly raising the volume of one's voice. The Ohm Walshs recreate that magical acoustic space in my listening room. Mercury Living Presence and RCA Living Stereos, as well as live recordings from Carnegie Hall itself, enjoy a special synergism with the Walshes. |
Photos of the new Penny loudspeakers can be found here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/17843311@N00/sets/72157617884848718/
Get a look at those monster surrounds on the front-firing 7" bass woofers. John Strohbeen know how to extract every bit og useful bass out of a reflex box, and then some. Looks like an integration of a microwalsh and a subwoofer in one cabinet - bet they sound sweet! |
Check out this outstanding review of the Ohm MicroWalsh Tall SE in Stereo Times:
http://www.stereotimes.com/speak092409.shtml |
The Walsh woofer is deficient at the extreme ends of it's bandwidth until it is fully broken in. So before breakin, you will not get the extreme bottom end thundering bass. And the upper treble range from 4-8 khz will sound recessed. Rest assured, this range will become quite vivid and nuanced when the driver is fully broken in. My suggestion is to play lots of piano music - let a CD repeat at moderate levels overnight. This will break that woofer in nicely at the top end. Better yet, get a CD of Bach music and run that for 24 hours at moderate loudness - you will hear a difference! |
She hid them in the dining room - I never go in there. The family sups in the kitchen. I bought only the head unit upgraded drivers, not the entire loudspeakers with cabs mind you! |
10:1 is based on reasonable power loss across the preamp output: the pream-amp circuit is a power divider. At 10:1 preamp to amp impedance only about 10% of the voltage signal is "wasted" in the preamp output stage. However, no preamp has a perfectly falt output impedance across the audible frequency range. The 10:1 should be applied to the peak output impedance of the preamp, not the manufacturer's stated nominal impedance. Impedance mismatch is a predictable source of coloration. The preamp is a voltage source that prefers to see an infinite impedance so that it is not loaded down which results in voltage sags and distortion.
The best SS amps use FETs for differential input stage for this reason.
BTW: My Walsh 5 Mk IIIs will be going back to Ohm for repairs on one driver. I spoke to John and decided to upgrade to the Walsh 5000. John says the improvement in sound will be "evolutionary," and they have double the peak power handling and go a little lower. I'll take any improvement I can get with these most fantastic loudspeakers. |
The Ohm Walsh 5s produce some of the best bass known, in quantity, quality and extension. Why would you possibly need a subwoofer? There's got to be a better placement - a few inches can change the bass output in-room, dramatically. |
John Strohbeen strikes me as a strict engineer and objectivist and when asked which amps are best to drive the Ohm Walsh 5 mentions the most powerful and high current designs. Anecdotally, he is purported to like the Carver TFM-75 (750 W/ch) which was at the time about the most powerful consumer audio amp available. He told me he likes the Crown Macro Reference (a true beast and very well reviewed at Absolute Sound years ago) which these days can be had for about $2,000. I am using the Wyred 4 Sound ST-1000 which at 550W/ch into 8 ohms and 1100W into 4 ohms drive the Walsh 5's effortlessly. There are many fine amps that will do the job right. |
Foster 9:
The DNA-500 has more than enough power and current to drive the Walsh 5000s. This must be a placement issue, I have measured (and heard) substantial differences in the bass output of my Walsh 5s in the main power band (~40-60 hz) with movement of the speaker a mere 3 inchs. You need to pick up a Radio Shack sound meter and a test CD with tones from 20 -100 Hz and run scans for different loudspeaker positions. Believe me, a mere few inch adjustment can do wonders for sorting out the bass. |
My wife hid the Walsh 5000s that I had ordered from John in early November. I assumed that I wouldn't recieve them until after the New Year since Ohm shuts down for a two week holiday at the end of December. Anyway, it was a nice surprise to get them on Christmas day. Of course I had to postpone setting them up until after entertaining family and neighbors.
I will give a full review after a few days of listening and utilizing a wide variety of genres. Let me just say that the news is good, very good. The Walsh 5000s sound fluid, dimensional and very dynamic fresh out of the box (unlike the Walsh 5 Series 3 which were tight-arse out of the box and needed several hard hours of breakin). There are two areas where the improvements/refinements are very obvious. I am very very pleased with what I am hearing but will wait before providing further details.
Merry Christmas all! |
They sound fantastic. I am presently listening to a live recording of Berlioz' "Les Troyens" and the vocalists are reproduced perfectly. These 5000's having explosive dynamics and an ultra-clean tranparent sound. I will be posting a detailed review in a few days once I complete conducting all of my requisite torture tests. So far, I'd say these are John Strohbeen's best effort to date - the improvements over the Walsh 5's are staggering, and the improvements over the most excellent Walsh 5 Series 3s are significant, if that were possible. Amazing loudspeakers - quite awesome - I am enjoying them immensely! |
Sorry I didn't respond - I'm presently buried under unread Emails and work-related stuff.
The ST-1000 is driving the Walshs beautifully -effortlessly. The sound is very lively and dynamic, silky yet super-detailed and the noise floor is non-existent. I'm driving the amp with a Pioneer Elite SP99D Preamp-processor which has an utterly clean, quiet and neutral sound. I use it in stereo mode exclusively.
My main listening system:
Ohm Walsh 5000
Cables: solid core .9999 silver 18g
Wyred4Sound ST-1000
Pioneer Elite SP-99D Preamp-Processor
Cambridge Audio DACMagic
Pioneer Elite PD-59 transport |
IMHO, the single best way to optimize the incredible soundstaging and imaging of the Ohm Walshs without sacrificing their remarkable dynamics and tonal accuracy is to acoustically treat the room to absorb all first reflections, particularly side walls and ceiling reflections. While it is true that the sound radiation pattern of the Ohm Walsh has been tailored to minimize room reflections while directing high dispersion sound into the interior of the room, the imaging and soundstaging become razor sharp and vivid when first reflections are completely eliminated by judicious use of room treatments. Basically, the Ohm Walshs sound best placed along the short wall of a rectangular room that is acoustically live but where the middle third of the room's long dimension is treated with absorptive covering on the side walls and ceiling to eliminate first reflections. This is how my room is configured and the sound is spectactular. |
The Old Carnegie Hall was acoustically superior to the new refurbished hall of today, though the latter is still an excellent acoustic. The old hall had scintillating air and a responsiveness that was magical.
I've been listening to my Ohm Walsh 5000s driven by the superb Wyred 4 Sound ST1000 amp for several months now and taking full measure of these loudspeakers. They are magical! Vis a vis the Walsh 5 Series III the 5000s are very much the same animal. But, the 5000s are better in many ways: more refined presentation, more nuanced, with remarkable transparency and delicacy. Yet, the 5000s go substantially lower and have extraordinary dynamics - they can play orchestral ensembles with breathtaking power and control. The background is so black and quiet. The bass is incredibly fast and tuneful - the cabinet tuning is so spot on perfect that I get goose bumps hearing low bass quitar sixteenth notes tripping so nimble and clean and perfectly articulated that I never cease to marvel at it. I'm hearing a lot more in familar recordings, much more presence and all the interstices and low level happening that I never heard before. The vocals are just perfect - so lifelike and natural, vivid and startling. I have been postponing writing a detailed review of the 5000s because of time restraints and also, inability to conjure up the words to describe these loudspeakers. They are truly exquisite and special - best money I ever spent. Ohm and John S. have built something very special here, light years superior to the classic Walsh 5, and fundamentally superior to the Series 3 drivers in a ways I have difficulty putting in words. By way of metaphor, imagine comparing a drawing by a very skilled artist to one deftly and exquisitely rendered with remarkable suppleness and shading by a da Vinci: the former is quite good; but the latter is exquisite, eye-grabbing and a one-of-a-kind masterpiece bespeaking the unique talents and years of experience and mastery of the creator. The Walsh 5000s are loudspeakers built by a da Vinci - you can hear the quality and excellence of sound that could only be the work of a master builder seasoned by years of refinement of his techniques. Such a work is priceless to one who can appreciate it's beauty and special qualities.
If John Strohbeen ever comes up with a newer Walsh 5000, maybe called the Walsh 5000-deluxe, I might buy it just to see if John can do what I think may be impossible: improving on the sound of the 5000s. Yes, I know that no device is 'perfect.' But, the 5000s are that good that I wonder if they are not now the absolute apex of sound reproduction achievable with Ohm's ingenious and elegant CLS architecture. We shall see. |
Two most beautiful equations in history:
e^(i X Pi) +1 = 0
Walsh 5000 + Wyred4Sound ST-1000 + Mercury Living Presence = Auditory Nirvana |
I owned the Walsh 5 S3 and upgraded to the 5000s and have extensive listening hours logged with both. Here is a point by point comparison:
1. 5000 greatest improvement is in the midrange - it is much more open and transparent - superb inner detail and quiet background - much more dimensional.
2. 5000 has lower SPL, ~2 dB, needs more power and a good 200W per channel amp - and has a superior bass with better slam, tightness and extension - quite amazing actually. All the Walshs had excellent bass but the 5000 has hit the sweet spot with just perfect box tuning.
3. The 5000 treble is very airy and sweet and never ever will you hear grain or grit - hours and hours of listening pleasure and zilch fatigue.
4. The soundstage of the 5000 goes deeper with much better fleshing out of the back rows of the ensemble and much more hall acoustic and you-are-there presence.
The 5000 upgrade from the Walsh 5 Series 3 is well worth the dollar investment and heartily recommended. |
