Ohm Walsh Micro Talls: who's actually heard 'em?

Nice. Let us know how they work out.

Hi Parasound63

What are you going to power your MWT SEs with? I have the Ohm Walsh MicroWalsh Short SEs with Class D type amps from Red Dragon Audio and I'm beyond happy.

Not sure. Right now I use an emotiva UMC-200 stereo amp for my older MWT's. I'll either get another stereo amp, and a 5-channel and possibly add a center. Lots of options, but the price and condition of the speakers were too good to pass up.

Wanted to pose a question about how Ohm owners feel about the quality of upper midrange and highs they get from their Ohms? I moved to mostly late night listening and found the W2-100s3 didn't work well at low volume so I got a pair of Kef r300 monitors which work well for late night. The thing I discovered was that the Kefs are much richer in midrange and high content? I had not felt I was missing anything with the Ohms but now I wonder...I have found that when I can I run both speakers and the sound is much fuller. Is this the difference between box speakers and the Ohms? I had bought a Marantz PM8500 to try modern hardware out. I was partly swayed to that because it allowed for two speaker hookups. I had not planned on running two simultaneously just was tired of having to swap out cables when I switched between day and night.

Joke

I've run ohm. 100s3 f5s3 dynaudio contour and triangle Titus off various amps over the last few years.

First off the exact sound with the ohms is largely a function of the gear used and the room. I can hear clear differences with most any change including power cord and interconnects. So the exact complete setup will largely determine the results which can vary widely.

Second I would say the 100s3 ohms always are the least fatiguing. The dynaudios and triangles tend towards a hotter presentation that must be tamed to some extent and can become unpleasant with some setups. That's never the case with the ohms. Their top end tends to be more recessed in comparison.

That does not make them the best necessarily for low volume listening in that our ears are less sensitive at frequency extremes and more so at lower volumes. The common on solution to this that a lot of gear used to provide is a loudness control that boosts high and low frequencies to be heard better at low volume.

So I'd say the ohm sound in general is consistent with your observations. You can orient the ohms 45 degrees outward to provide more direct tweeter exposure I that they normally are oriented 45 degrees inward. That might be a useful easy tweak to adjust for lower volume.

Also I would say the dynaudio esotar soft dome tweeter is quit good and a different beast than the soft domes used in the ohms and most others. They seem to have more bite that helps put an extra edge to the music. Which again can be a good or bad thing depending.

After reading the entire thread it appears mapman is on the payroll.

Andrew

I can assure you I am not on any payroll having anything to do with audio.

7 years my man.
Give it a rest.

Why does my opinion bother you? At least I'm consistent.

If you disagree with something your free to express your opinion as well.

Jock,

I've found (and measured) the Ohms (I use S100s) to be very neutral. That's sometimes evident in the lower midrange/upper bass where some high-end designs are goosed a bit to sound richer or in the upper mids where extra energy gives some speakers more"jump". IMO, neither of those approaches is a cardinal sin if the speakers' overall balance is appropriate and the deviation isn't too extreme. Notwithstanding that wiggle room, the Ohms just don't meaningfully go there.

Further, the top end of my 100s rolls off less quickly than some competing designs. The 100s also lack full range bass extension (as do most speakers at that price point). The overall impression may be "thin" sounding to some, but I'd call it pretty close to dead neutral.

I don't know your Kefs, so I can't speculate as to the issue you've ID'd. I can only note that the Ohms are quite neutral in my room.

As to Mapman's comments, Ohms are relatively rare speakers of unusual design. Mapman probably has more experience with Ohm designs than the rest of the board members combined. In this corner, his comments are always appreciated.

Marty.

I am not equiped to do such measurements, but what you relate is consistent with my observations.

I did a lot of research into headphones recently and looked at a lot of phone measurements online. I've always thought the OHM sound to resemble Sennheiser, which some often cite as "rolled off".

What I recall noticing is that most Sennheiser phones measure relatively flat whereas many other leading competing brands have frequency respones seemingly designed to compensate for teh well documented non linear frequency response of human ears. As I noted above, human ears frequency response drops off at the extremes even more so at lower volumes. So transducers taht are "flatter" may not sound as right at lower volumes as a result.

Joek, my brilliant Ipad spell checker changed my spelling of your name into "joke" and I did not notice until after posting. My apologies if that came across improperly. For some reason this is one of those threads that does not allow me to edit posts afterwards.

Here again is the invaluable adio frequency chart that shows what music occurs at various frequencies as well as the frequency response of human hearing for comparison. I always find it most useful to help understand what I am hearing and why.

Audio Frequency Chart

Hey Mapman!

I've been seriously into headphones for the past 3 years, and for me the planar-magnetic models from Hifiman also have similar sonic qualities to my Ohms, especially in the midrange and treble.

The Senns are just too rolled-off in the upper midrange for me, and I always experience a 'veil' in the details that I don't experience with my MWT's.

Which Sennheisers? Just curious.

A lot of the better Senns are said to benefit from good quality amplification. OHMs are teh same way.

I have portable Sennheiser Momentum over ear phones which are said to be somewhat easier to drive than teh "audiophile" models, but I find the amp used makes a huge difference still in terms of clarity. They sound best by far to me so far with the Bel Canto c5i I picked up recently and I hear the same results off teh C5i with my OHM 100s3.

OHMs are similar I find. The amplification and source used makes a similar difference. They can become somewhat veiled if things are not going right, but not so at all when they are.

Also I had modest STAX phones for many years up until recent. These sounded different somewhat with different amps but never veiled. Also I have heard very expensive Audeze off very good amplification which were very etched and detailed. Have never heard Hifiman, though I have almost jumped on those a few times based on what I read.

Long time no post, thanks to my company's draconian web blocking policies. But, a few things to add.

Subwoofing: As you may know, I augment my 2000s with a pair of Vandersteen 2Wq subwoofers, which are now equipped with the battery biased Vandersteen crossovers. Those looking for top-flight bass extension for any speaker that produces a good response down to 40Hz has to look at these subs. I bought them and the crossovers used, and the blending with the 2000s is totally seamless. Also, they work perfectly in corners, as per their design goal.

Upper-mid/lower-treble range: The Ohm Walsh 2000 performance in this range is one of the main reasons I bought them. Many speakers hype this range in order to add detail and presence. But turn them up a bit, and - ouch! IMHO, KEFs have this exaggerated presence range to varying degrees. I listen to my 2000s at lower volumes when checking email, using internet radio or basic Pandora, and I never find them lacking at these lower volumes. In fact, I have to keep it lower, because if I turn the volume up even a little, I will get distracted by the beautiful music I hear.

Still better: A while back, I moved my amp from my rack to the front wall near the speakers. This required a long IC run from the preamp. It also left me with a lot of extra speaker-wire. Since I wanted to upgrade the speaker wire (Kimber 4PR), I left them in place and coiled up the excess on foam cable risers. Stuff happens, and I have never been able to afford a speaker cable upgrade.

I recently had a few of my audio buddies over for some listening, and I requested that no punches be pulled on the sound. It took one of them about 5 minutes to look at the coils of speaker wire and ask me if I felt my highs were a bit closed in. Why, yes, I do feel they are a bit closed in, with too much center image and not enough soundstage width. I had chalked that up to the room or limitations of the 2000s. Well, he informed me that a coil of wire like that acts as an inductor, and rolls off the highs. In about 20 minutes, he and one other guest had started cutting and reterminating my speaker wire for a much shorter run, and no coils of wire. WOW! I now had air, a wider soundstage, and much more open highs, with no downside (like excess brightness or etch). A great, free upgrade. Better than free, really, as I will sell the excess cable they cut up.

Not much to add to this thread other than these are truly non fatiguing speakers. Just got done with another multi-hour streaming listening set.
Source: 10 year owner of microtalls currently paired with a modest peachtree amp.

Ok so after about 5 hours of digesting this thread, I pulled the trigger on some Ohm Micro Walsh Tall SE's last nite. Please note, Ohm is having a Black Friday holiday special and the last day is TODAY! I picked a pair up in Rosewood for $955 plus $55 shipping. Loved this thread, I did have a pair of Ohm D2's in the late seventies, they were my dorm room speakers. I have had some great speakers since, mostly from Joseph Audio, but looking forward to getting these little Ohms. I really remember my D2's and this is a little nostalgic as well as getting the most speaker for the cash. Thanks to all who posted.

Enjoy them and keep us posted on how you get along with them. I always enjoyed my MWT's.

Yes, please enjoy and keep us posted especially if any problems.

Congratulations on the purchase, mas426.  I am sure you will enjoy them.  Just let them break in.  I have heard Joseph Audio speakers many times at shows, and always enjoyed them, but you don't get much Joseph Audio for a grand!  If you haven't heard Ohms in 35 years, you may be in for a pleasant surprise.

I have just finished reading this thread from start to finish. It took me a couple of weeks to wade through it. In some ways, it has been a fascinating read punctuated by the original poster selling his Ohms. I have to admit being disappointed about that event, but was pleased that the thread continued on.

I own 2 sets of early Ohm-Walsh speakers, a set of Walsh 1s and Walsh 2s. I paid less than $200 for each set so I wasn't gambling much.

My original interest in Ohms was sparked by reading a review of some amplifier whose name escapes me at the moment, but the Ohm speakers were mentioned. I believe the review was in a San Francisco based paper. Being a curious type, I did some internet searching and came upon the Ohm website. The technical aspect of the Walsh design was fascinating to me (I'm an engineer) so I looked around locally (SoCal) and found my speakers.

The Walsh 1s were good, but I hadn't bought a new CD player yet. That only happened after the Walsh 2s showed up. There was a noticeable difference between the two models. Let's just say the Walsh 2s are still listened to and the Walsh 1s are in the garage waiting for the 2.2000 upgrade when the budget allows.

Reading this thread has prompted me to buy a used Parasound 1500A amp. It hasn't been set up yet because there doesn't seem to be a way to connect it to my current A/V receiver (Onyko HT-R430). It has the normal line-level outs (tape, etc.), but no pre-amp out.

I know, I know; buy a pre-amp. I get that, but in order to have a decent WAF, I have maintain an FM tuner and a remote. This makes things more complicated and, hence, more expensive I'm sure.

Any ideas out there?

BTW, I'm reading Jim Smith's book 'Get Better Sound'. Any comments on that?

Thanks,
Tate

Here is the article that steered me to Ohm speakers.
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_24674435/sound-advice-ohm-walsh-speakers-cant-be-beat

I guess I’m talking to myself here. :-)

I just bought a B&K Reference 5 S2 pre-amp on Audiogon that satisfies my requirements for a tuner and a remote so I’m pleased with that.

I’ll post how it sounds with the Parasound 1500A amp when I get it hooked up; probably after the new year.

I really am talking to myself so I don't need to be shy.

The preamp/tuner and power amp were integrated into my system and the Onyko got relegated to garage duty.

At first, I wasn't sure if I had made the right decision in jettisoning the old Onyko receiver. I realized that some adjustments might be necessary to get the new components and the room tuned in.

The bass response was good so I kicked the treble up slightly to better match what I had the old receiver set to and, voila, the sound was starting get there.

While I was expecting a big difference in the sound, the reality was measured in more subtle layers. The bass was stronger and better defined and I didn't need as much volume to hear the details. My wife wasn't complaining to me about the SPL.

This last point is important because I want her to be able to share some of the music with me. Before, it wasn't happening at the levels I needed.

I have reviewed some of my CDs on the new set-up and I'm hearing details and a general openess that wasn't there before. Also, the congestion at higher volume levels is gone.

My original goal, 3 months ago, was to get closer to a reference system I had heard while on vacation. Now, I can say I'm about 90% there.

I still have some cable tuning to do and, eventually, an Ohm speaker upgrade to 2.2000. I might change the listening area some if I can get the WAF high enough.

My current modest system is partially the result of reading this Ohm discussion and components purchased on this site. I can say that I am very satisfied with the result considering the amount of money spent (about $1,500 so far). Buying used components made it financially possible to do for me. Additionally, I don't have to do any major break-in proceedures; someone has done it already!

Glad to hear the thread was helpful and things working out well. 

Someone is listening.
Thanks, mapman.

Tate, never fear, someone will be along on this thread at some point! Seems like it goes through little spells of activity, but eventually as Mapman did, somebody will catch up to things sooner or later.

Glad the Ohms are doing their thing as well as your gear. Enjoy your music and don't get in too big of a hurry to change anything. It will all get there at some point! 

Yes, thanks Frazeur1.
I wanted to get the system to a certain point and then go slow.

On my B&K preamp/tuner my only comment is that the tuner part doesn't seem to be very good (no bass), but otherwise it is fine.

I did buy a pair (one set) of Morrow Audio MA1 interconnects and I wasn't sure if they would be more effective between the preamp and the power amp or between the CD player and the preamp.

Any thoughts there?

IC between amp and pre-amp will affect all sources, not just CD.   You need to try both and decide which option works best for all the sources you care about.   If just CD, it may not matter much but no way to know for sure with out trying both listening and deciding yourself.  

Thanks mapman, but I will have to wait on the IC comparison as I recently blew out the 30 year old surrounds on my Walsh 2s. This explains why I was losing the bass. The Parasound power amp did the deed.
I sent an email to John Strobeen to see what route I should take (repair or upgrade).
In the meantime, I plan to install a set of Walsh 1s as a stop gap measure until the issue is resolved.
Any comments on the repair vs, upgrade question?

Do the upgrade if you can squeeze it.  The drivers have improved greatly since original Walsh 2s.  I know in that I had Walsh 2s for years (1981 to ~2008) and kept them to compare a/b to my current 100s3s before keeping the 100s.   

After talking to John Strohbeen today, I bit the bullet and ordered the 2.2000 driver upgrade. I will be sending my Walsh 2 speakers back to John for a partial trade toward the 2.2000s that will end up going into the Walsh 1 cabinets. He mentioned that it is an easier install into the Walsh 1 because you don't have to dig out the cross-overs like on the Walsh 2s.

Sounds good to me!

In a couple of weeks, I will have everything back together so I can work on comparing the IC cables. They can start their break-in in the meantime.

The Walsh 1s actually sound pretty good now that they are installed in the new system, but John said to not turn them up too loud! I really didn't think I was playing them beyond reason, but...

Nice. Trade in is the way to go and installing drivers oneself with instruction from ohm saves money as well.   Should not be hard especially if no current bottom mounted crossover board to rip out. 

t8kc:  Not to worry, this is THE Ohm thread on Audiogon, and many people lurk in addition to posting.  I think you've made some excellent decisions.  The new 2.2000 will need a lot of break-in.  Be patient, and you will be richly rewarded.  John has made major improvements in the power-handling abilities of the Walsh line over the years.  For a week, I had a loaner pair of 500 wpc Arion Class D amps, the sound was great, and nothing blew up or launched itself from the speaker cabinets of my Walsh 2000s.  IIRC, Mapman uses 500 wpc Bel Cantos on his Ohms.

BTW, in the future, you can get local and international radio stations via the web using many different audio streamers and computers.  Cheap and easy.  I have a tuner in my system, but never use it any more.

The tuner+remote is 100% for the WAF.
I don’t think having a computer hooked up in our living room is going to pass muster.

I emailed John Strohbeen asking "how does one know if the speakers are over-driven?" and he answered this.

"The upgrade comes with a 3-Year Limited Parts & Labor warranty. If you blow them up and we consider it abuse, we will tell you; but still cover it under the warranty the first time. After that you will know how loud is too loud and we can discuss moving up to mode with a Walsh 3000 size driver. I normally only have this discussion after the damage in done; but since you did in your Walsh 2s..."

I really didn’t try to over do it with the volume control, but I like to hear the live concert-level sound. Also, some music really only sounds good when cranked-up. Additionally, I had read on this thread that the Walsh type speakers needed lots of power to sound their best. I provided the power, but...

Hopefully, I can restrain myself enough not to do more damage. The highest I went on the Parasound amp was -10db. I know this is probably a meaningless number as it is source dependent.

I am looking forward to the new drivers after reading all the positive reviews on them. I also am aware of the break-in issues so I will be patient.

I had original Walsh 2s from 1982-2008, a long time.

Once at an outdoor party I had them cranked to max off a high quality Tandberg 80 w/ch receiver.   No problems.   The music sounded loud and live in the adjacent field over 50 yards away.   With good quality amplification, I always considered all OHM Walshes about as indestructible as they come.   They still sounded great in 2008 though I never cranked them that loud probably and age will eventually do in anything.   Plus its always possible to blow up speakers if one goes to extremes too quickly or an unexpected accident happens.  Caution when testing the limits is always advised.   I've always found a lower power amp that clips sooner is more likely to cause speaker damage than a higher powered one that can go loud without strain.   In general I think teh OHM walshes are capable of going full range louder and clearer than most any other passive speaker in their price range.   So you will be in a very good place to start after the upgrade.  I am very confident of that.

Rather than a computer for streaming music, for WAF consider a tablet with digital output to external DAC perhaps. Or I find analog sound out from my newer Iphone 6 running good quality streaming software to be very good quality these days. I use Plex to stream from my music server mostly with my systems. Plex runs on browsers, tablets, phones, and various other common platforms. Other apps that stream from internet music sources do as well.

Applying just moderate caution, I’ve used teh 500 w/ch BEl Canto ref1000m amps with all my speakers, large and small, at all volumes with no issues.

My speakers range from tiny Realistic Minumus 7s on the deck to slightly larger Triangle Titus to slightly larger Dynaudio Contour 1.3 mkII to somewhat larger OHM 100s to my big OHM F5 series 3. Sounds great with all.

The rule is to experiment with high volume gradually, especially with more dynamic recordings. You are usually good. If you hear any signs of audible distortion, then back off until the cause is clear and addressed.

500 w/ch is probably overkill for the more efficient Triangle Titus speakers, but I think the power benefits all the others to some degree as well, though I could probably get by with less.

The big OHM F5s in my larger room are teh only ones where I think I might feel I was missing something. The smaller OHM 100s could probably get by fine in most intended rooms with a good clean 80 watts or so. Once I used 180w/ch TAD Hibachi amps in place of the BCs when they were out for service. They did great with the 100s in my 12X12 office room. The big F5s in my larger listening room did very good as well but they definitely ran out of gas a tad in comparison at some of the higher listening volumes I do in there.

Remember that power demands increase exponentially with volume so having extra power in reserve when needed is always a nice insurance policy at minimum I find.

Just to correct the record, when I asked to John S. on the phone, he theorized that the damage I did to the walsh 2s was to the voil coils and not the surrounds. Even though the speakers are over 30 years old, he said that the surrounds were probably ok as they are made of cloth and are durable.

Mapman: I remember your earlier post about playing the W2s outdoors.

Just to be clear, I didn’t have any issues with my speakers when using my Onyko receiver (100 wpc). It was only when I put the Parasound 1500 into the mix that the problems occurred. I will be more careful in the future.

Using my Samsung Note 5 to stream music is an option that I can look into, but the B&K tuner seems ok now that I have removed the W2s from the mix. I think I had already blown the voice coils by that time so it only appeared to be missing the bass. With the W1s installed, all is well with the tuner again.

I want to thank all the posters to this thread as I’m sure my system would be pretty pathetic without all of the input. My good choices were a result of following the suggestions found here.

When I mentioned this thread to John S., he just chuckled.

Also, any feedback on Jim Smith’s book (Get Better Sound)?

It's a good resource.  Jim Smith knows his stuff.  I heard and bought a pair of Maggie's once from his old shop Audition in Birmingham Al.  I strived to get them to sound as good at home as they did there.  

I thought it was interesting that he didn't mention Ohm-Walsh speakers. It seemed as if he didn't consider them "audiophile" enough. That is just my opinion, of course.
Also, he would have then had to make special comments about fitting them to the room and maybe he didn't think that was worth the effort considering the small population of owners.
Anyway, it was still an interesting read and, there is no doubt, he knows his stuff.

OHM has been sold direct to buyers only for a number of years now since the 80s.  Despite being pretty unique, others in the business have little business reason to give them much if any special attention.   There are not many substitutes if one likes them.   The closest things are other omnis like mbl and German Physiks and a handful of other very small brands.  The successful ones seem to be the ones that stake out the high end in terms of cost and quality that has a very limited market.  Most people have no special interest in weird looking speakers.   Despite that how many thousands of speakers has OHm likely sold since the introduction of teh Walsh line back in 1981 or so?   The basic design has remained mostly unchanged, just tweaked and improved over the years.

That the basic Ohm-Walsh design has remained the same for decades, accounts for the stable "voice" they make.

I like the fact that the design has been refined over time, but not changed. This is called 'development'; think Volkswagen Beetle for example. Rather than being driven by maketing forces (whiz-bang selling points), the Ohm-Walsh speaker evolution is driven by engineering forces (thanks, John).

Mapman, you are correct to say that there is little interest in the greater audio comunity because this competitive business is extremely marketing-driven; the latest and greatest fads are headline material. While performance is part of that equation, it is sometimes secondary to how something looks and/or is marketed. Many consumers need to have a visual representation of how 'cool' there equipment is.

Imagine, if all audio electronic equipment was housed in non-descript black boxes with only the manufacturer's name on it; that would be a marketer's nightmare. Components would have to be sold only on their sonic merits - ouch!

Ohm-Walsh speakers are like that. With only a couple of visual face-lifts over 4 decades, this product line has been remarkably stable. The fact that the company is still in business speaks volumes (excuse the multiple puns) about the sonic quality of the speakers themselves.

I have the utmost respect for the Ohm company for staying the course in this extreme marketing-driven segment.

For the past couple of weeks, I have been re-visiting every post on Ohm speakers (including my own) on this particular thread.  I started my journey with Ohm speakers in September of 2009 with the micro talls, and I was so smitten with them that I soon upgraded to the new 1000's.

I have to say that that even after 6 years of ownership that they still continue to amaze and delight me!!  The 1000's seem to excel at acoustic guitar and piano reproduction.  Both sound so real, and actually being able to hear clear differences in piano's is amazing.  Every other speaker I've ever owned or heard made all piano sound pretty generic.  The Ohm's bring out textures and tones that show the differences..The same applies to acoustic guitar.  I can clearly hear string oscillations on familiar recordings that weren't apparent with other speakers or even on headphones

Other surprises include when I'm listening to FM broadcasts or a streaming site such as Pandora.  Even with unfamiliar recordings, I can hear the Ohm's work their magic, throwing a a massive soundstage, giving a dimensional presentation of voices and instruments that makes them so appealing  There are times when I'll hear something on the Ohms, and have to stop what I'm doing and just listen (with a big smile on my face)

I love my Ohms, and the fact that they still continue to amaze me speaks volumes  As a matter of fact, I think I'll go throw on K.D. Lang's " Ingenue" and get the party started.......Ohm on, everyone!!!

I hear you Joe.  I think it's an omni thing and particularly unique when done with a wide range coherent Walsh style driver.  

Learned something the other day. I have a pair of OHM 5000's driven by a 600 watt Bryston. Sometimes I noticed my amp would clip at mid volumes. I retightened my speaker connections and placed the spades farther apart by placing one end of spade directly thought binding post hole. My amp never clips at mid volumes now. I no I blew a fuse out on my amp a while ago when speaker coonetions got too close. The OHMs need a lot of current and watts to sound their best. John from OHM recommends using bare wire with no termination. I could see that making the most secure connection. Has anyone else had experiences with loose connections? Maybe I helped someone  make their speakers sound better. Mike

No room for bad connections ever.  That's for sure.  Especially with good high power setups.

I have a speaker hum that is really bad. After the usual disconnecting of the various components, I found it was coming from the TV.
This was a huge relief because the wife had been pointing her angry finger at my newly acquired amp and pre-amp as the source of the problem!

Any ideas out there on how to deal with this issue?
I will play around with the cables and power cable grounding, but I wonder what a permanent fix will look like.