Frankly, I would not want to reproduce anything below 20hz with a 180 w/ch amp in that it will run out of steam fast reproducing anything at that frequency.
Larger, fairly high efficiency speakers would likely be needed to do anything below 20hz if present justice at high volumes with "only" 180 w/ch.
One lives dangerously in general below 20hz which is why it is usually off limits for most all recordings and playback systems. |
The Jean Guillou rendition of Pictures at an Exhibition on Dorian CD is the recording I have that seems to plunge the depths the most and is the one I use for testing low end extension specifically.
Not sure how low it goes exactly in that I have never measured, but it goes the lowest it seems of any recording I know of on certain pipe organ notes that may or may not be audible depending on the rig setup.
I also have some older E. Power Biggs recordings on vinyl that are decent tests as well, but only if ones phono rig is up to it.
20hz is the lowest frequency spec one tends to ever see referenced in audio gear over the years. I have never really considered anything below that to be of significance musically, at least on a recording. Usually anything below that on a recording tends to be noise and not music, especially with vinyl, and might be best filtered out so as not to drain power that would be available for the music otherwise. |
32-ft pipe = 16Hz. Not that uncommon in large organs.
No argument, Coot,
I was merely pointing out that, of the half dozen or so pipe organ recordings that I own, only one - an SACD I purchased at the Cathedral in Passau, Germany (home of the largest pipe organ in Europe at that time) - actually has meaningful signal below 35hz.
One of my hobbies over the last several years has been measuring in-room response with my RTA and StudioQ software. Just to see how low my recordings go, I measured the pipe organ recordings (Sudio Q can be set to show lowest frequency/highest frequency, etc). On sweeps, my system will hit 25hz with no roll-off at 80db. The SACD referenced above is the only music recording that I've tested that dips below 30hz, tho it did get down into the 20ish hz region IIRC.
Lots of soundtracks go very low, and there's no question that a pipe organ can go that low, but there's a major question in my mind how many pipe organ recordings go that low. |
I also just thought to mention that cabinet volume is a big factor with teh OHM Walshes along with driver size in terms of being able to deliver the goods down to 20hz.
I have never seen John advertise any Walsh models to extend below 20hz (few if any vendors ever do), but I am not sure it is not possible with the larger Walsh cabinets and drivers.
I like the older pyramidal shaped OHM cabinets in this regard in particular in that they tend to be wider and have greater volume per height accordingly, compared to the newer sleeker looking cabinets. Not to mention no || sides. All Walshes sound best when listened to from driver level or above, so narrower cabinets must be taller to have same volume. Taller will not work as well if listening from typical chair level closer to the speakers rather than at more of a distance, as is more possible in a larger room.
I prefer the older pyramid shaped cabinets on paper for all these reasons myself. Not to mention, they can be had for less than new ones in that when available they are essentially recycled and refurbed.
JS hit the bullseye with his Walsh design. Same sound scales as needed, old cabs can be re-used to offer a discount, plus all the rest. Very smart. No other speaker line can make those claims, I think. |
In summary, I have heard where my OHM 5s in my room with the right gear in front of them can do an excellent job alone on the lowest notes of pipe organs, shaking hte rafters in the process. Top notch low end extension in source gear and enough power to go along with it are the keys.
Power demand increase exponentially at lower frequencies, so I would think 250W/ch or more for larger OHMs in a larger space to start to be where one would want for pipe organ notes that shake the rafters (as they should).
Damping factor of the amp is also significant for this. Higher damping might make bass tighter and more articulate, and lower damping will loosen things up more and help to get teh room vibrating.
My current setup is more towards the former than the latter these days.
But when I started out with my 5s off Carver m4.0t power amp (tube like sound, low damping) and matching Carver pre-amp, the rafters shook to the point where I would be concerned about things starting to fall off the walls and other similar problems.
Now its leaner and meaner, and not as loosely damped in the bass, but when I get things up to proper level for pipe organ and such, the lock key sitting on a narrow ledge nearby usually ends up on the floor still. And the sound is rock solid and clear, with no sign of breakup or distress EVER.
That is all with no subs in the picture.
Toss a couple of those in then get them set up right and you will likely take a nice shortcut to the place you seek.
So far, I have not felt the need, but do I do get the urge to try to push the limits from time to time.... |
Marty,
I agree that adding a sub and offloading work from main speakers and amps significantly reduces what is demanded from both amp and speakers in most every case, not just OHM, and if done right can only be of benefit, if one chooses to go that way.
As I know you know, it's the "done right" part that is the challenge, but you more than most anyone here seem to have done your homework and found a good way to do it right. |
Coot,
If it is the lowest notes of organ music that you are looking for, make sure your electronics, particularly pre-amp, is up to the task. I have found that to make the biggest difference with my OHMs over times.
My current ARC sp16 tube pre-amp is a wonderful sounding pre-amp, but not the most extended for low pipe organ notes. My old "mid-fi" Carver pre-amp was much better in that regard, but not in much else.
You might want to assess what you have currently in that regard and compare on paper to other options.
I would make sure that is covered first before doing anything else.
There may also be big differences in terms of low frequency response and distortion with source gear, particularly turntables and carts, more so than modern good quality digital.
At least that has been my experience with pre-amps and the OHMs with pipe organ music. Pipe organs aside, it does not matter nearly as much. If I listened to pipe organ music more often, I would be considering a different pre-amp I think, probably a very good SS one. It is good enough as is, but I have heard it can be much better, with my OHM 5s and in my room.
Pipe organs push the edge for low end extension versus pretty much anything else, so not just anything will do there anywhere in teh signal chain. Its not a huge consideration for many these days, so do not assume that just any gear is up to the task. |
32-ft pipe = 16Hz. Not that uncommon in large organs. |
To clarify one point re: adding subs. I actively cross my set up at 72hz - that number reflecting the smoothest FR I could manage thru the x-over region. I suspect that diverting those large excursion signals below 72hz away from the Ohm allows for a greater sense of macro-dynamics. The really long excursions are now executed by the Rythmik subs which handle the job better. Freed from that work, the Ohm can handle its job better, too. The increased bass extention into the bottom octave is less important to me, since it's so rarely present on any of the music that I listen to. Since Coot's a pipe organ guy, it may be more useful to him - provided he's got one (or more) of those rare recordings that actually provides the bottom end of the pipe to a system that can handle it. |
Modern OHM Walsh design speakers are without match I find in terms of their ability to go loud and clear (with the necessary amp behind them) for teh particular size and at the particular price point of each.
I think a lot of that has to do with the Walsh driver principle as JS has implemented enabling more output from any particular driver than might be possible using typical pistonic motion only driver design. If one reads up on Walsh driver operation principles, I suspect that is a result of the fact that sound leaves the cone at different frequencies from different locations along the cone. Also because the Walsh driver does not cover the higher frequencies, above 8Khz.
Lincoln Walsh's original design attempted to be full range. It succeeded fairly well at that but all implementations at the time were quite delicate and fragile and easily destroyed at high volumes if things went wrong.
Modern similar designs, like Dale HArder's, might have solved some of those problems, or I am confident at least are able to address them better to some extent, using modern technology advances at his disposal today that did not exist in LW's day.
Remember though that the largest modern OHM Walsh driver, like the ones in my F5s3s, appear to be only about 10" or so. I have not encountered it yet practically in my case, but that will become a limitation at some time, even if the design manages to squeeze the most possible out of a driver that size.
10" and even 12" bass drivers (not even wider range like modern OHM Walsh CLS) used to be common years ago, but few modern speakers use driver's larger than 10". Many modern speakers, including OHM to some degree, tend to use smaller drivers and be less efficient in order to fit better into most people's homes. Smaller lower efficiency speakers put more burden on the amp, especially to deliver high SPL full range sound in larger rooms. Huge, heavy, and expensive monster power amps, available to few, used to be needed. No longer the case however with modern Class D amp technology, which I consider to be one the greatest recent innovations in home audio technology. A perfect match made in heaven for JSs modern innovations with the Walsh driver principle.
The sky is the limit now for home audio enthusiasts with Class D amps. Especially when you toss a few into a sub cabinet along with a good quality 12" or 15" bass driver.
|
Coot, my 5s are limited in a manner similar to what you describe if I use my 180w/ch TAD Hibachi monoblocks in place of my Bel CAnto Ref1000ms.
The TADs do pretty well with my 100s in our large open family room/kitchen area that opens up to the whole first floor of our 3000+ sq. foot home. At higher volumes though not even close to the 5s off the ref1000m amps downstairs in the 20X30 L shaped room, which does have doors and is more acoustically sealed.
Big, natural, clean sound at realistic volumes does not come cheap, unfortunately, especially in a larger volume area/room. Its the one thing that truly justifies a lot of the money spent towards the goal of the "ultimate sound" IMHO.
Class D amps will be your friend towards this end with the OHMs when the time comes. Either more power to the 5000s and/or adding powered subs, which by the way mostly all also use Class D amp power these days.
Its basic physics. Big sound needs bigger drivers and speakers and more power and all that ups the cost. |
Yeah amps AND subs - anyone like to contribute the $$ to make this all happen?! 8-)
Oh my, this will take awhile.
-Al |
Adding powered sub that goes down to 20 hz or so no problem and can be integrated cleanly with mains probably has the most up side if done right to throw more at the problem to increase clean output levels possible.
More power and current to the amp as I mentioned above is another. That should deliver better macrodynamics and fuller extended bass down into the 20-3ohz range for so with larger OHMs in matched size room (see teh chart on OHM site that matches models to room size), maybe talk to JS. He could probably help confirm if teh speakers are capable of meeting goals alone in target room with the right amp or not, in which case the sub route is needed. OR, he now makes model 5015 for a few grand more with powered sub built into each cabinet along with 5000 drivers.
More power and larger drivers is always the key with OHM Walshes. ONly question is how much needed in a particular case and is there a model that scales up enough alone for a particular room to meet goals. |
Coot,
I noticed a similar issue with my 100s. I added a pair of subwoofers to address the bottom octave and take some of the upper bass workload off the Ohms. I love the result, but I use Audyssey to integrate the woofers and I know that that's not everyone's cup of tea.
FWIW, I don't think that Ohm's greatest strength is macro-dynamics (tho I haven't heard the larger models so I can't comment on those). Conversely, the MBL 101 is great on that front, but hideously expensive, a bit flabby on bottom, and -to my ear - bottom heavy in medium sized rooms.
I haven't heard any other full range omnis, so there may be other ways to skin the cat. However, if you want to address the issue without replacing your speakers, adding subwoofers to your Ohms might be your best bet. Worked for me. |
Martykl
When a crescendo builds, the louder it becomes, the more constricted the sound. Cymbal crashes are less natural, although live cymbal crashes have always been mostly uncontrolled noise by nature. (Thinking back to high school band days here.). Yes, I would say that loud organ is lacking bass - i.e. St Saens 3 ending.
Mapman
Music "room" is a converted formal dining area 11x13 that is has wide archways opening to kitchen, great room and entryway on 3 sides. It's ceiling is 8ft but the ceiling of the great room and entry is 17'. What i'm saying is there is a lot of air space to be loaded - estimate approx. 13,000 cf. Listening sofa is 9' from spkrs which are 5.5' oc apart. Construction is suspended wood floor and drywall. Thick rug in front of spkrs. First reflection sides are covered.
Your suggestion of high-current/high-power class D amplification is one I am considering. Right now I'm waiting for some of the new technology/models said to be arriving this fall. Apparently lots happening in that arena.
Thank you both. |
Coot,
What would you identify as the issue with large scale orchestral works/organ music? Is it a lack of power in the lowest registers of pipe organ? Is it a lack of macro-dynamics on full orchestral swell? Both? Something else entirely?
It's hard to make a considered suggestion without a better understanding of the issue at hand. |
COot,
DEscribe your room size and any special considerations acoustically.
I have run my 5s off 120, 180 and 350 and 500 w/ch 2 channel amps in my 20X30 L shaped room with standard height drywall ceiling and carpet over concrete floor.
ALl these were "suitable" for low to moderate volume no doubt, the more power and current, the merrier, for the "biggest", fullest sound. All amps were limited in terms of biggest sound possible compared to my current 500w/ch BEl CAnto ref1000m Icepower monoblocks.
I would recommend 500 w/ch Class D or something similar for best results with the largest OHMs. Current delivery capability is as important to overall tonal balance as # watts is for distortion free higher SPLs often needed to reproduce large scale works at a realistic level in a larger room.
My smaller 100s make due nicely with "only" 180 w/ch in most any room in my modest size house I use them in, but current delivery is also critical. Your B&K might be the bottleneck to best large scale "big" performance possible. More watts and perhaps even more current as well to go along with that will surely take things to a higher level, assuming everything is in good working order. |
I listen almost exclusively to "classical" music - chamber, piano, choral on up to large-scale works and organ (which to me is also large-scale). My 5000's sound fine on the first three. Really fine. On the large-scale, they leave much to be desired. Of course there are obvious limits to reproducing the sounds of 100+ instruments in one room in my house - or even the whole house for that matter. But I still wonder if there is anything I can do to get closer to a "bigger" sound.
Ohm 5000s, B&K EX442 (185wpc/8)
-Al |
Hi guys .. ok, a quick update on the MicroSubs. IÂ’ve had these smallish cubes in my system for a few days now and IÂ’m quite happy thus far. They are a nice match for the Talls (sonically and aesthetically). HereÂ’s the system now:
• Mac mini
• iFi iUSBPower
• Chord QuteHD
• Outlaw Audio ICBM-1
• Odyssey Cyclops SE+
• MicroWalsh Talls & MicroSubs
IÂ’m using the Outlaw Audio ICBM-1 for bass management duties. The ICBM-1 is a left-over from my home theater days and is a rather nice cross-over which operates in the analog domain. I have the cross-over set at 60, which to my ears is just right. The speakers and subs are along the same plane and the subs sit fairly close to each speaker. IÂ’ve tweaked the settings (volume/phase/cross-over) by ear only and IÂ’m pretty happy with the result. FWIW IÂ’m not a bass hound at all .. just want a balanced presentation. That said, the bass frequency extension is just what I was looking for. A rather nice surprise is the newly found clarity and detail in the mids and highs! The Talls have never sounded so good.
Overall, I’d say these are a nice option for those of us not wanting to spend a lot of money on a pair of subs. BTW, the MicroSubs are not built in Brooklyn. According to Ohm: “These MicroSubs are the only speakers we have made for us in China (we still modify it to work better with our Walshs)”. Different for Ohm but nicely done. |
"Much to my surprise the nice UPS man (whose name I should know by now) brought my 2 MicroSubwoofers today! Thinking they would arrive a couple of weeks from now, clearly I misunderstood John. Guess what I'll be doing after work."
Any updates on the subs? |
Much to my surprise the nice UPS man (whose name I should know by now) brought my 2 MicroSubwoofers today! Thinking they would arrive a couple of weeks from now, clearly I misunderstood John. Guess what I'll be doing after work. |
I have a fair number of country recordings both old and new. With rare exception, they all tend to sound very to really good and a revelation to most anything similar I have heard prior anywhere. |
Great tune Bond, and I am not much of a country fan either, but that album is quite good. I know it always sounded extremely good on my Ohm's as well, and yes, it is a wonderful way to break in those newbies, or ones that haven't ever really listened to any kind of proper setup. |
So, my daughter's boyfriend, who loves music (country mostly, but whaddayagonnado?), was visiting, and he was curious about the big rig. I don't have a lot of country, but I threw on k.d. Lang's "Wash Me Clean" from the CD Inengue, and put him in the sweet spot chair. His jaw hit the floor as my Ohm 2000s filled the room with a huge soundstage, full of details and that smooth sound that makes me smile each time I listen. He may never look upon his iPhone or his laptop the same way again. I am certain he never heard anything like it. That's how we enlarge the hobby. If I could do this with 10 people, I bet at least one would be motivated to start looking for a system of their own. |
Sale at Ohm!!!! As sent to me by Ohm Speakers:
Through May 30, 2014, you can get Free Freight and 15% Off Everything on the Ohm website, when you use coupon code MD2014 at check out. (Free Freight is limited to the 48 contiguous states).
Yes, new speakers.
Yes, home theater systems.
Yes, upgrades and service on vintage speakers.
Yes, Outlet Store items.
Yes, EVERYTHING!
Our Summer Shut-Down is June 28 to July 14; so, we hope to get your order shipped before we leave.
Call me if you have any questions.
John Strohbeen, President, 800-783-1553 |
Mapman .. I haven't either. In fact, I searched for a review and came up empty. Considering the 120 home trial and my complete satisfaction with the Talls I figure it's not much of a risk. I'll be happy to share my thoughts once I've had them a bit.
These little MicroSubs were (hopefully) just what I was looking for. I did not want to spend alot of money so the price point for the pair was perfect. I'll be putting them right up close to the talls (as per John's suggestion) so the size is just right as well. I'm hoping they are a good match sonically.
BTW, Ohm is running a Memorial Day Sale all week .. 15% off and free shipping. My timing was quite good! |
I don't hear much about OHM subs and have never heard any.
I'll be interested to hear about it as things unfold.
Prices look competitive and John S. consulting can only be a bonus. |
Hey guys .. I've been contemplating a subwoofer purchase for a while now and have been doing my homework like a good little audiophool. (So many options it's staggering.) I haven't used a sub since dismantling my home theater and find that I miss some of the foundation bass (or sub-base) provides. So after a few email exchanges with John S, I placed a call this morning and ordered a pair of MicroSubwoofer 10's veneered in walnut to match my Talls. MicroSubwooferNeedless to say I can't wait to hear these little cuboids in my system. John tells me they need 2 weeks for the veneer work so hopefully I'll have them in 3 weeks give or take. |
Zkzpb8 wrote,
"It's been proven that humans cannot remember what something sounds like (or looks like, for that matter) - after just a few seconds - it's just the way it is. VERY quick comparisons have to be made."
Proven by whom? The Amazing Randi? I can easily remember what something sounded like a day, a week, a year later. I also have a very good memory for faces. :-) |
IMO more people should listen to men like John Strohbeen, and Alan Shaw (Harbeth). If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it's all about getting the testing method down, then real comparisons can be made.
We hear about level matching all of the time, but it's true - our ears work in a very non-linear fashion. The ear responds very differently at different sound pressure levels. When making two or more comparisons, the levels have to be matched VERY closely...
But even more importantly, because most comparisons aren't even made at the same exact time, is the issue of audio memory. It's been proven that humans cannot remember what something sounds like (or looks like, for that matter) - after just a few seconds - it's just the way it is. VERY quick comparisons have to be made.
So when someone, anyone says they're hearing (perceiving) that something sounds differently - it's really hard for me trust judgement, unless the comparison had been made properly. |
Heard yes, probably so, but are they all better? Probably not. For me, I find wires and cable to be the most difficult thing in general(unless something is really waaaay different or just awful for whatever reason)to try and evaluate. Again, maybe differences, but not always so cut and dried as to define a better or best a lot of the time-again, for me and my cloth ears.
It may be that after all these years, I am maybe just simply more satisfied with the setup and sound it delivers that I am less apt to swap things in and around for the sheer fun of it anymore. Enjoy listening to the music more than I do going through the motions of swap, listen, and all that business. Tim |
Almost any change or tweak I try can be heard I find. I think John just likes to keep to simple formulas that can work for most, but some are more finicky or have very refined goals. It can work either way, but I think John like any business person in the end says and does what is best for business, which is try to keep things as simple and affordable as ppossible. |
I too have enjoyed Johns latest little blurbs, good reading.
As far as Johns take on wanky-wires, I think in general John takes a very solid, but simplistic take on the whole audio thing, use what is capable for doing said job, no more, no less, simple and fuss free. After all, he has in the past used very simple and reasonably priced amplifiers from NAD etc.
I do like Johns approach and thoughts on most things. But, it also doesn't hurt to try things out for yourself and see what-if anything does change for the better. A lot of things may not be better, just different. Isn't this audio business fun? Tim |
John has even chimed in on this thread in the past if you go back a bit. Been awhile though.
He is a musician as well as an EE though, I believe. They say musicians respond to music differently than others due to extensive exposure to music, and high end audio adds little for them. |
"No downside to power tweaks if done right for the right reasons, I think. Its more a matter of how much difference case by case, but I think noise with digital gear in particular is a problem worth tackling."
My experience with power tweaks certainly made a difference in my system. I use an iFi Audio iUSBPower in front of my Chord QuteHD, which is powered with a Teddy Pardo 12-2 power supply. Brought even more refinement to the QuteHD.
I'm enjoying John's writing and am very happy he's sharing some of that knowledge and experience with us. Yes, smart man with a true passion for good sound. |
I've recently added $200-$300 Pangea ac14SE power cords to my mhdt DACS in both systems, first one and later the other recently.
These are designed for use with line level components to help with noise/distortion. IT's been a nice addition in both cases, and seems to work as designed based on what I hear.
These were on sale recently, so I paid <$100 for each. Definitely worth that! Nice product that seems to work as designed and very high quality build to boot.
No downside to power tweaks if done right for the right reasons, I think. Its more a matter of how much difference case by case, but I think noise with digital gear in particular is a problem worth tackling.
I do not pay much attention to speaker wire. The only sure thing like John says is to not use to high a gauge (thinner wires). The rest is all synergy. Lots of more certain and cost effective ways to accomplish that!
I do pay more attention to ICs, but again its mostly about synergy there as well and it does not have to cost much to accomplish.
John/OHM is and thinks like an engineer and is all about good sound, value and service only it seems. COuld care less about a lot of the noise one encounters in high end audio. Smart guy! HE makes his products accessible to the masses, rather than try to glorify them and cater to the high end audio market, which may always have a foothold but overall is probably going nowhere long term.
John's approach is but one reason I stay loyal to the OHM brand. |
"I have experimented more with various analog ICs and hear big differences there, but still hard to say one inherently better than the other. Two different flavors perhaps, with of which might work best in any one's case."
Same here Mapman. As usual it's about preference for the most part.
As is happens (perhaps why the article caught my interest) I'm using the silly-affordable Blue Jeans 12-White speaker cables with my Talls right now with great results. |
I use Transparent super wave plus. I've tried kimber 8tc and Tara labs . The transparent has the best synergy. Full bodied and holographic. More of an upgrade than my adcom to bryston preamp. More of an upgrade than a Benz s to an ortophon Cadenza bronze. Some say they stay away from cables with any black boxes but these are the best I've had. |
"Seems John and company don't exactly advocate the need for expensive cables .. at least that is how it reads to me. Thoughts?"
Yes, and I tend to agree.
I've had one pair of OHMs on high quality Audioquest CV6 wires, and my F5s connect in an advacent room using decent quality commercial grade wiring I had put through the walls when the house was built.
I would say these do not sound the same but I could not make a judgement that one sounds better than the other necessarily. I have things set up in both rooms for quite excellent results. Different, yes. Better? Debatable.
I have experimented more with various analog ICs and hear big differences there, but still hard to say one inherently better than the other. Two different flavors perhaps, with of which might work best in any one's case. |
I was reading "News and Views" on Ohm's website and found this excerpt particularly interesting: "Today there are hundreds of special speaker wires available; some costing thousands of dollars. Which is best and which is the best value? Two interesting questions. Based on the fact that there can be an almost “magical” synergy between speaker and wire, I really cannot tell you what is best unless I have had a chance to listen to (and test) your speakers. I can tell you that with most Ohms, 12-gauge wire (if less than 30 feet long) is what we recommend. We do our development with this wire and believe you will not hear an improvement with any other. You may hear a difference; but it is not the way we designed the speakers to sound. Of course, if there is a difference, the difference maybe compensating for a room/speaker interaction problem. It is sort of like two problems canceling each other out." Seems John and company don't exactly advocate the need for expensive cables .. at least that is how it reads to me. Thoughts? http://ohmspeaker.com/news/does-speaker-wire-affect-the-sound/ |
I had some of the Martin Logan Motion series speakers that I used for A/V in the living room for awhile. These had the same basic folded ribbon tweets as the Golden Ear speakers, and they are quite good. I never did find them to be soft or irritating in any way at all, very detailed and smooth. A fantastic little tweeter. I do like most of the GE line as well, and as Map put it, the Aon is a good little stand mounter. Tim |
No doubt toe in/out will effect air in any speaker, but more so with OHMs in standard setup where tweeter is normally facing/toed-in 45 degrees.
Sounds like your buddy has good ears!
My Dynaudio monitors also tend to have more "air" than the OHMs in most setups.
Yes, I liked the GE Aon folded ribbon during short audition, but not sure if it might be a bit too polite for me over the longer term or not. A mixed bag there but I liked the large Aon very much especially at its price point overall. |
Mapman - I never liked Def tech speakers (although I have an old PF15 sub for LFE use only). But I really like the Golden Ear products. I know, same designer. But that folded ribbon tweeter is so sweet compared to the harsh metal domes in the def techs.
Anyway. Had an audiophile buddy over recently to hear my Ohms. He is a speaker designer himself, and quite knowledgable and skilled. He liked the Ohms a lot, although he remarked that they were a little rolled off up top (I like it that way), and not quite as airy as his own designs (which I have heard, and I agree). He also used his iphone to measure my in-room response. It was surprisingly smooth except for an odd dip around 500Hz (narrow-band). It did tilt down a bit from left to right, as I expected. Remember, I toe them in a bit, which will roll off the highs a little. All done on purpose. |
Received an email today for John Strohbeen, president of Ohm Acoustics Corp. which I copy here: We are having a 3-Day SALE with: 20% off new speakers 20% off upgrades 20% off parts and service An extra 20% off items in our Outlet Store where discounts of up to 30% are already in place on limited items. 20% off Everything! Ends at 11:59PM on Monday, February 17th. Use the coupon GEORGE20 when you check out to get your discount. I'll be at the factory (800-783-1553) on Monday for 11 AM to 6 PM. John has a few sales per year. The terms usually vary. This looks like a way to save money on just about anything he offers. Other sales have sometimes been limited to certain products, etc. |
Been catching up on the entire thread, now up to page 27 and the posts are now only 2 years old.
I sacrificed my vinyl collection in Europe 20 years ago because I deemed them to not be worth their weight in shipping costs to return back to the U.S., so I'm 100% digital. One of the factors I weighed was while I was living there, I purchased a DAT so I could create copies of CDs that I was able to borrow from my client's library, which was largely French garbage as it turned out. This slightly predates the availability of CD recorders for home entertainment systems.
I have discovered some modern sonic classics for demoing/evaluating components. I normally wouldn't bother with live recordings for critical listening, but there are a couple of standouts in my collection:
Diana Krall's Live in Rio on blu-ray. The opening track is one of the more sparse arrangements on the disc due to a backing orchestra, and I love the way the MWT handles the upright bass, making me grin as much as the player does.
Second is called the Legends of Jazz Showcase, a compilation of songs from the TV show hosted by Ramsay Lewis.
Next is from AIX Records that is mainly a vehicle for 3D video demonstration called Goldberg Variations Acoustica, but the company's raison d'etre is superior sound.
And finally, I splurged for the DSOTM blu ray package from 2011 which includes various DVDs and CDs as well. The blu ray has 3 sound options, including LPCM 2.0 sampled at 96Khz/24 bit.
My own 5.1 system is in a state of flux, and I'm currently working on infrastructure. I recently purchased 5 Transparent Audio ICs, with speaker wire to be upgraded next. I also bought the Walsh Center Channel speaker, the one pictured on the Ohm website link to the center channel page. I haven't brought that home from the office yet, because my TV needs to be raised 2 more inches to accommodate it. |
My main problem was that I was trying to use a home theater speaker that begs for an augmenting subwoofer to reproduce music. It just doesn't look much like a home theater speaker at 48" tall. My subs were placed for aesthetic purposes rather than than best sound. In their locations, I had a very deep hole between 60 and 90 Hz at my listening chair, so they were unable to contribute very much. The MWT doesn't really need help in the midbass frequencies, so in my room they sound much better than the speakers they replaced.
Since my first post, my wife allowed me to move a sub to one of the corners of the room. I still have the Deftechs, but have no desire to put them back in to hear the effect of the change. I'm having too much fun listening to my new babies, both with and without a sub. They are now hooked up to a pair of Wyred 4 Sound monoblocks, a new purchase. |
Just to jump in, the experience Mrjktcvs had with Deftech totally echoes my own. I understand that the dipoles were sensitive to room placement and conditions, but they were absolutely the worst speakers for my situation that I ever owned.
The MWT's have filled every room (we've moved three times since I got them) I've had, including the 3500 sq foot open floorplan of base housing on Quantico. You make a good point, Polarin, and I try not to embellish, but man those speakers just did not work for me, at all. |
I'm digging my Walsh 3's. Granted, they are a lot bigger than Micro's, but the amount of bass in the 3's is pretty amazing. (The only reason I didn't keep my Micro's years ago was due to the lack of bass.) These are an older model, and I doubt they sound just like new ones- actually, they are a bit less 3D and "open" as the Micro Talls. But, I'm pretty happy with them. (I haven't even touched the tone switches underneath.) |
A pair of Walsh 5 series 3 is up for auction today on Audiogon, if anyone is in the market. |
Mrjkycvs as a proud owner of Ohm Walsh 3's I've no doubt about your love for the MWT's. BUT, as a former owner of Definitive Technology speakers I can't help but think you're embellishing your criticism of those speakers just a bit. I mean Def Tech towers + subs sound like a transistor radio from the 60's and unable to fill a 4500 cubic foot room? Something in your setup had to be amiss because one thing I know Def Tech's to be able to do is fill a room. Anyway I'm not trying to rain on your parade as you are obviously ecstatic with your Ohm purchase but I had to call a foul on your assessment of Def's... |
