When I worked part time in college at Tech Hifi, of the brands we sold I recall liking the EPIs or Epicures 2nd best, close behind OHM, tied with Advent, over JBL, Infinity, Electrovoice, Cerwin Vega (yuck!) and a few others. |
Ah, Tech HiFi! That's where I got my first speakers - Advent New Large Utilities - in 1978. They were on sale for less than $200 ($179/pr?), IIRC. This is back when Tech HiFi, Sam Goody, Rabson's and other mid-fi retailers were big businesses, and often advertised in newspapers. It was a newspaper ad that alerted me to the sale price for the Advents. When's the last time you saw ads for hifi gear (other than Bose) in a newspaper? Boy, times have changed! The Advents are still in service in my secondary den system, with original foam surrounds. Thanks for the memories, Mapman! |
Bondman,
TEch Hifi's big competitor I recall in the NYC metro area was Crazy Eddies. Remember them? |
Crazy Eddie was the discounter. Tech Hi-Fi was the "specialty store". "Harvey Electronics" was the boutiquey store and Lyric was the "vault" that wouldn't let just anyone in to hear the Maggie Tympani.
As I recall.
Marty |
Marty, that sounds like a fair accounting.
Also there were many one off dealers that were not part of a larger chain.
I sold to a lot of college kids with limited budgets at Tech HiFi. Their choices were often either just refurbs from Tech HiFi or Crazy Eddie. Most else was too expensive for most.
Then I graduated college and got a real job. Those days selling audio gear were fun though. I'd love to do it again someday. |
Been listening to my new Ohm 1000's (Italian rosewood) they are really great. This thread was very helpful in helping me make decision. Great top and low end and seems very neutral as well. |
1000s?
Are those the latest and greatest 100s? I hadn't seen that these were available yet. |
Diebenkorn: Thanks for the comments. Please feel free to post more impressions as you listen further.
Does anyone know if the prices will go up for the next version of the 100? (I hope not.)
Mapman - Not only do I remember Crazie Eddie's, I knew how to read the price codes on the shelf price cards. As their "insane" ads stressed, they would beat any price. Of course, most consumers would just assume the shelf price was the lowest price and pay it. Big mistake. Those who did shop around would present their competitor's ad before asking if the item was in stock. Big mistake #2, since Eddie's would suddenly be out of stock if you had a good price to beat. I would first ask the salesman if the item was in stock, have him write up the sale, and call the stockroom to have it brought up to the check out. Only then would I produce the ad with a lower price. I did this many times.
I myself worked for a while at Lafayette Radio on 45th Street while I was in college. They were already owned by Circuit City, and sold all mid-fi stuff. The best was probably Mirage speakers. I remember looking at the first CD player they sold - a Hitachi, IIRC - with a price tag of about $1000.
Sorry to everyone for drifting OT! |
"Does anyone know if the prices will go up for the next version of the 100? (I hope not.)"
I think I read on the web site that they will as they roll out the revamped drivers.
I also did a stint at a Lafayette store in Pennsylvania in 1978 just prior to Tech HiFi, my first paying corporate job. No CDs yet then. Lafayette, BIC, Garrard and a few other tables though. My first component system was all Lafayette/Criterion. |
They are beta models, I dont have much to compare them to coming from high end headphone world and some old NHT 2.5's but they are not going anywhere. I will post some pics of my setup. |
Mapman - Not only do I remember Crazie Eddie's, I knew how to read the price codes on the shelf price cards. Yeah, and Crazy Eddie was eventually shut down by the Feds for some kind of fraudulent business practices, I think. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crazy_Eddie |
I spoke to John at Ohm about the new speakers. Having picked up a pair of 100S3s about 8 months ago, I was concerned/interested in the introduction of a newer line of speakers. Here's what I learned from him –– the 100S3 falls in-between the new 1000 and 2000 models in both size and sonic quality. (Since the 1000 will sell for $2,000/pair and the 2000 for $2,800/pair, that makes it sound like the 100S3 at $1,800/pair was a good bargain!) If you trade in the 100S3 (or any older model), Ohm will give up to a 100% credit towards a new model. I can trade in the 100S3s for the Model 2000 and get 100% trade-in value. The 100S3s will not have a 100% trade-in value toward the Model 1000, but it will be close.
As usual, you get a 120-day trial period with any of the newer models, so you can have them for A/B comparisons with present speakers. Ohm charges you for the new pair. If you return the new ones during the 120-day period, you get full refund (less shipping). If you keep the new ones and return the older ones, you are given a credit refund for the (usually) full purchase price.
He also explained that the newer driver is cast, while the older ones were stamped. I'm lost on that. The sonic changes, which is what I'm interested in, will be minimal. The main change is cosmetic - the rounding of the edges of the cabinets, made possible when they figured out how to make a round frame for the cloth covers.
The trial period seems like a no-risk way to decide if the new model is worth it. Once I get moved into my new house, I just may order a pair of 2000s to try! |
I received the email below the other day announcing the new line:
"Hi Folks,
We are back to work and starting to produce our next generation of Ohm Walsh speakers. The sound has made evolutionary improvements; the maintenance-free lifespan has been extended; plus the cabinet styling and finish have substantially improved.
All current Ohm Walsh speakers sound pretty much the same when used in the size room they are designed to be played in. Instead of a Good-Better-Best line-up where you get better sound for more money, we make the best we can for small, medium and large rooms. In this generation, we have tighten up the deep bass, "sweetened" the highs with new super-tweeters an made the voices a bit more intelligible, particularly on dialog.
The pure-foam surrounds and damping materials have limited most vintage Ohm Walsh speakers to a 10-20 year maintenance-free lifespan. In this new generation, we have moved to different materials with much longer lifespans: 40-50 years in some models! Additionally, most models now use cast metal frames for greater stiffness and strength.
The styling has been finalized with a softer, gentler, more graceful look:
1. All will have rounded vertical edges, rounded plinths, and rounded grills.
2. All veneer choices are at no extra cost.
3. Each cabinet gets at least two additional coats of hand-rubbed finish.
4. Photos will be coming in a few weeks when our website is updated.
The recommended room sizes (width x length x height) have been finalized:
* MODEL ROOM SIZE (volume)
* MicroWalsh SE 600-1000 cu.ft
* 1000 800-1600 cu.ft
* 2000 1300-3000 cu.ft
* 3000 2400-5400 cu.ft
* 4000 4500-8500 cu.ft
* 5000 800-8500 cu.ft
The pricing has been finalized:
* MODEL PRICE (per pair)
* MicroWalsh SE $1400
* 1000 2000
* 2000 2800
* 3000 4000
* 4000 5500
* 5000 6500
These prices are for the floor-standing, full range versions. We will also be offering versions for Home Theater applications (center, sides and rears) in both floor and wall mounted styles. Matching powered subwoofers will be available to provide systems providing both audiophile music reproduction and dramatic movie effects.
The Ohm Walsh speakers still provide the widest Sweet-Sweep, where precise stereo imaging can be heard, of any speakers in the world as well as some of the most natural, intelligible voice reproduction in music and dialog. You do not have to sit in just one spot to enjoy an exciting stereo soundstage.
Introductory Sale: For orders taken in July and August, S&H will be only $50 per pair anywhere in the lower 48 states.
Up-Graded older Walsh speakers are available at great prices. Save 20-40% and get the new sound on recycled, refurbished cabinets. Various models and veneers available.
All Ohm speakers are made in Brooklyn NY and we are proud of it!
Please call me personally to discuss your needs and options.
Good Listening!
John Strohbeen, President, 800-783-1553
For more information, please visit our WebSite: http://www.ohmspeakers.com
Click here to unsubscribe. We do not believe in SPAM and do not offer our list to anyone else." |
This must be an exciting time for Ohm, and I hope they sell thousands of the new speakers.
Myself- I'm totally happy with the MWT's, and won't be trading them in any time soon.
If my next house has a large enough room, I will certainly be buying the 1000's (or any other model, depending on room size)
-P |
Mapman and Winegasman,
Wow, thanks for all that information. That's really cool. Did either of you get a hint of when the new models will be rolled out? |
Okay, raise your hand if you're tempted to upgrade! |
Hello Everyone!
I have read with interest this thread about the Ohms and would like to add my two cents to it.
I am the owner of Ohm 4s with the new 5 S3 upgrades I put in myself. In hopes of getting it a great sound, I purchased an ARC REF3 (Thanks Mitch4t!) and a Pass Labs X350.5 (lots of saving up and scrimping).
When I first fired it up I was disappointed with the treble because I listen to a lot of jazz, and like the sound of lifelike cymbals and triangles.
But then I remembered the John Potis articles about these same speakers, that they need to be broken in so some patience was required.
I had written to John Strohbeen about the treble and he said "Break in takes time, although the treble doesn't change much." He doesn't use metal domes for the metallic sound but instead uses a tweeter that has a "linear response beyond 20,000 Hz"
At about 68 hrs everything seemed to open up. The midrange was excellent, piano, voice and bass (although some might prefer a sub woofer, in my case its great as it is). The treble I'm beginning to think depends on the CD recording. On some CDs its great, on others, meh.
So far I am pleased with these speakers but was curious about the 5000 series, so I asked John about them and his response was "The new 5000 are better, but in an evolutionary way, not a dramatic improvement. I do not recommend moving up only one model; but wait and consider the 5000s replacement in a few years."
Just thought I'd add some thoughts to a remarkable product. There may be more expensive and better speakers on the market, but for my money I think the Ohms are a fantastic deal.
P.S. Hey Mapman whats going on with the Class D speakers for the Ohm 5 S3s? |
"Hey Mapman whats going on with the Class D speakers for the Ohm 5 S3s?"
You are asking about a Class D amp, I assume.
I will most likely try one someday when I feel the need to upgrade to more power/juice, but frankly, I'm quite pleased where I am currently with the Musical Fidelity A3CR so no rush. It has been a big time over-achiever at 150w/ch.
My motto is if it ain't broke, don't fix it, and I am in very good shape amp and speaker-wise at present. |
This thread's been sort of quiet lately so I'm giving it a shameless "bump." Anybody get new Ohm's lately? I'm curious as to how many of you bought Ohm's as a result of this thread... :-) |
I bought 100s on the basis of an Ohm thread - I think it was this one. I'll pat myself on the back for buying and also thank the experienced members of the Ohm community for the good advice in recommending them to me.
Marty |
Same here!
I couldn't be more happy- I haven't listened to this much music since I was 16.
I had two friends over this weekend (both of whom bought a set of my old speakers) It got a bit awkward as they realized that the Ohm's were superior to the ones I sold them, but not for long. We had a great time, and listened to music until about 1 am.
Now I'm moving on to learning about the wonderful world of DACs and music servers.
Thanks to all!
-P |
Parasound63: Funny you should say "I haven't listened to this much music since I was 16." That's exactly what I am looking for. My current rig is not bad, but I never have long listening sessions, usually switch to watching movies, and rarely listen to a complete album. I guess that's classic listening fatigue. When I was 16, I would listen for hours to my system (Kenwood receiver, Technics 'table with cheap Stanton pickup, or Superscope Cassette Deck and New Large Advent Utility speakers) for hours. Surely, this was, at best, mid-fi, but I loved listening. Although time is a more precious commodity these days, I long for a speaker that i can afford that will make me opt for music over video.
Until now, only two speakers I have heard under $10K convinced me that I would listen more often if I had them. One, the Roman Audio Centurian (~$6500 when last available) is out of production. The other, Silverline Audio Bolero, is pricey ($9K list, but probably lower street price).
Based on this thread, I am going to try to get the boss's approval to try out the Ohms. Unfortunaley, based on J.S.'s latest email, the price of entry for me into the world of Ohm just went up from $1700 to $2800, if I have measured my room correctly and understand the room-size application correctly. But $2800 is still a lot less than the other two speakers, so come this fall, I hope to contact John and order a pair od 2000s (or the 1000s if John thinks they will suffice).
If I have the kind of reaction to the Ohms that you, Rebbe and Martykl got, perhaps it will be my last speaker (especially given the 40-50 year life-span of the new line, which is probably longer than my own).
I will keep this thread posted as things progress.
Meanwhile, I am dressing up the acoustics in my room and just got my preamp back from a factory refresh at Conrad Johnson. I want to make sure that everything else is in place before I order the Ohms.
Thanks again, everyone! |
Bondman,
I suspect there are still ways to bring the cost down.
You can pick up used OHMs with good cabinets on Ebay or here and get them upgraded.
Or you can pick up up to two pair of used OHMS cheap that meet OHMs trade-in requirements (in general, cabinets are refurbishable) for value up to 40% off towards something from them and do that (that's what I did for my F-5s).
Or you might just pick up a pair of older second hand OHMs that work and get a flavor with those. |
And if I remember correctly, I believe Ohm still has updated models available for reduced cost or possibly some remaining S3's or Super 2-S3's, which are updated Ohm 2's. I wouldn't wait until Fall to give John a call
By the way, there is a nice looking pair of Ohm 4's up for bid on ebay- recently serviced by Ohm.
In any case, I can't wait to read your impressions of any Ohm with the Conrad Johnson!
-P |
Thanks, Parasound, but I won't have the cash until a bonus check on August 31st. FYI, only my preamp is C-J. My amp is the Odyssey Audio HT3.
Mapman - this must be a no-risk trial for me. I can't spend that kinda money without a way out if they aren't everything I hope they will be. Ohm's 120 day trial is the only reason I am even considering the purchase. Buying used for an upgrade or trade-in means too many complications if I do not like the Ohms in my system. Plus, I admit that I like the idea of rounded cabinets and improved finishes. I don't mind spending the $2800, if the 2000s are all that I hope they will be (in fact, they'd be a bargain at $2800 if they produce the same reaction from me as the Roman Audio Centurians or Silverline Boleros). My current speakers, Vandy 1Cs, were bought new at full retail nine years ago. For the money, it is still one of the better speakers out there, and was maybe the best for under $1000 nine years ago. I do not regret paying retail at all: If a product offers good value at its list price, I am fine with paying retail. |
Bond-
Pretty sure you'll be pleased with them. I'm not sure how you feel about the theory of the break-in period. I myself was a non-believer until I got the Micro Walsh Talls. They sounded great right out the box, but the tonal quality definitely changed over the course of 100 hours. The change greatly affected placement My point is, even if you disregard burn-in as bunk, be prepared to break them in for about 100 hours.
At any rate, a comparison with the Vandy's also sounds interesting They were on my short list before I went with the Ohm's.
-P |
Hey Bondmanp! I really like Vandys, and I'm an even bigger Ohm fan (I chose MWTs over the 1C).
There IS some kind of deal out there for you. They're a great investment. The thing I like about Ohms, is all of the money I've saved by buying them when I did. Otherwise I'd have been on the speaker merry-go-round for the last 5 years... |
When are the new models actually supposed to be shipping? |
Thanks, Parasound and Zkzpb8!
Parasound - I am a firm believer in burn-in of speakers, most electronics, phono pickups and, to much lesser extent, ICs, speaker cables and power cords. Although I want to let them run in while I am not around, I get nervouse with my preamp being on too long when I am out of the room (tubes, smoke, fire, yadda, yadda), so I will keep them running as long as I am awake and at home.
Zkzpb8 - I also have a pair of Vandy W2q subs that will remain in place with the Ohms (the W2q is an amazing subwoofer, if you value musicality and seemless integration over brute force). Were you able to directly compare the Ohms with any Vandersteens? If so, which models? Indeed, if $2800 will take me off the upgrade path, it will be money very well spent - then I can upgrade the rest of my system
;-D
Thanks. |
Hey Bond - I never had the ability to compare the vandys and Ohms in the same room - but I demoed the vandys quite a bit, when I was interested in a pair of Meadowlark Kestrels, a few years ago. Those two speakers where in the same room, and it was that demo period that hooked me on time-coherent type speakers.
The Ohms have that same, open, effortless, natural sound (IMO). I've never seen the step response test of a pair of Ohms (would be interesting to see) - but I emailed John and he said that the drivers are mounted to be in time from the listener and the supertweeter has a simple low pass filter to keep the two drivers "in phase".
If I ever need subs, I'd most-likely go for the vandy subs in stereo. |
Question for the Ohm-o-philes: One possibility for my foray into Ohm Walsh speakers is the Walsh 4.3, which is a 3000 driver in recycled Ohm Walsh 4 cabinets. Ohm's web site does not have the dimensions of this speaker posted. Can anyone supply them for me here? I like the 9" footprint of the 100/2000 cabinets, but I must admit, getting a Walsh 3000 driver for the price of a Walsh 2000 is appealing. However, space is limited. FYI, room is ~2800 cubic feet, which is in the overlap zone between the new Walsh 2000 and Walsh 3000. Thanks in advance. |
Here ya go Bondmanp,
My Ohm Walsh 4.5 S3, the originals with the new S3 drivers measure 3' 4 3/4" tall with the grills, from the floor. At their base they are 15 1/2 inches square and taper to 13 1/4" at the base just below the grill. Hope that helps! |
Thanks, Aurelius, it is a big help. Simply put, the 4.3, which I think is the same cabinet as the 4.5, is too large for the tight space I must use for speaker placement. In the meantime, John Strohbeen has reviewed a diagram of my floorplan, and told me that the new Walsh 2000 (which is only a 9" x 9" footprint) should work fine in my situation. Ordering will probably be next month, so I will post my experiences going forward as they happen. |
FYI for Ohm lovers, the final version of the Blue Circle Audio Penny speakers is complete. This is the only speaker, to my knowledge, that marries Ohm drivers with conventional bass drivers for improved bass response. The Pennys will be at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest in Denver in October in the Blue Circle Audio room. I will have a pair after the show. I retail Blue Circle Audio at Departure Audio. |
I saw a pic of the finalized Penny at the Blue Circle website. I like the look of it. No reason why this speaker won't sound really coming from an Ohm/Blue Circle collaboration. |
Photos of the new Penny loudspeakers can be found here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/17843311@N00/sets/72157617884848718/
Get a look at those monster surrounds on the front-firing 7" bass woofers. John Strohbeen know how to extract every bit og useful bass out of a reflex box, and then some. Looks like an integration of a microwalsh and a subwoofer in one cabinet - bet they sound sweet! |
Mamboni,
Cool photos; thanks! |
How can the Ohm Walsh 5000 match such a wide range of room sizes?
Can you play the Ohm's at lower sound levels and still get involving sounds? Some speakers sound flat and dull unless you turn them up loud. |
"How can the Ohm Walsh 5000 match such a wide range of room sizes?"
4 separate 3-way level adjustments including a low bass level adjustment that you set to small, medium or large depending on room size.
"Can you play the Ohm's at lower sound levels and still get involving sounds? Some speakers sound flat and dull unless you turn them up loud."
Yes, but you need a good, high current, matching amp to deliver truly balanced results at low levels in particular. |
Sean,
I use Ohm 100s with subs and find that they are in that group of speakers which doesn't really sing til you turn 'em up a fair bit. Just MHO. BTW, I love the speakers. As trade-offs go, I'll take this one.
Marty |
I'd agree that the OHMs are at their unique lifelike best at more lifelike listening volumes.
They can do well at low volumes, but will not differentiate themselves from most other good speakers that way.
Planars and electrostats like Maggies excel at lower volumes where big dynamics are less of a concern IMHO.
I also have a pair of small Triangle monitors that are perhaps as good as I have heard at low volumes. The OHMs are not too far being those at low volumes however. |
Yesterday, A friend who went to the recent Paul McCartney concert at FedEx field in DC with me brought over a copy of a very good promotional (or bootleg?) copy of McCartney's performance at Coachella earlier this year that a friend had given him.
We sat down and listened using the Walsh 2 S3s.
He commented on how the sound presentation and quality was very reminiscent of the concert we had attended together. I had the same impression as well.
By design, we had field level seats in the sonic "sweet spot" at the FedEx field concert and the overall sound quality there was top notch for a venue that size.
That was a nice feather in the hat of the OHMs that I thought y'all might appreciate. |
|
It's always nice to read an update on the Ohm's on this thread.
Right now I'm enjoying a Porcupine Tree binge on my Micro Walsh Talls. I'm even listening a little louder than usual-95 Db's peak. I still can't believe the way these little speakers fill my room. |
WOW! 95dB? Be carefull... |
yeah yeah, I know :)
Sometimes it's hard to grasp how silly things sound until I see them in writing. It was a bit like bragging that my display light comes on...
-P |
Getting closer to pulling the trigger on the Walsh 2000s.
One question: I sent my room diagram and speaker selector form into John Strohbeen. He agreed that the 2000s would be sufficent for my room. However, he commented that since I was using subs, he would provide a sealed cabinet, instead of the standard vented one. He mentioned that this would allow for a smoother blend with the subs.
My subs are the Vandersteen 2Wq (a pair). These use an in-line, first order filter between the preamp and power amp. The roll-off starts at 80Hz, so the signal to the mains is down 6dB at 40Hz, 12dB at 20Hz. Vandersteen specifies that the mains must be reasonably flat down to 40Hz to use them with the 2Wq. The circuitry in the subwoofers compensates for this roll-off. My current speakers are Vandersteen 1Cs, which are vented. The blend I have now is completely seemless.
Bottom line: I think John's idea of using a sealed cabinet is based on the higher-order crossovers used by most subwoofers. My inclination is to insist on the standard, vented cabinet to maintain a robust response down to 40Hz. I think I will get the best blend this way. Also, I would imagine the efficiency of the 2000 would decrease if the cabinet were sealed and not vented. Although I have a pretty beefy amp, my room is large, and one major reason for the upgrade is to avoid the compression I get at louder levels from the Vandy 1Cs.
Thoughts, anyone? |
Why not just get the standard design and plug the ports if/when needed?
That's what I do with my Triangle monitors I use with a sub and it seems to work well.
Maybe run that by JS? |
I use the standard, full range Ohm 100s with subs (now Rythmiks, formerly Velodynes). I use an NHT x-2 to roll off the bass in the 100s and a Velodyne SMS-1 to roll off (and EQ)the subs. Integration is - to my ear - just about perfect. Personally, I'd go with full range Ohms. Just MHO.
Marty |
