Ohm Walsh F Hope of Resurrection

Remove the cones, pack carefully and send to one of the shops that repair speaker drivers. Get new surrounds and maybe new spiders. Repair cost should be less than $1K. Re-install the refurbished cones atop the cabinets. I'll bet they will sound real good!

This is quite long, but vintage and rare omni buffs may find it interesting... 

I had a great discussion with Evan at Ohm; very helpful, and I can see the beauty, interesting nature of what they are doing with their design. I already have a hybrid omni, the Kings Audio King Tower, and I do not wish to move farther from that style of speaker if I can see if there is a possibility of moving up in terms of scale and quality. Doing a current Ohm product would take me mechanically, operationally further from that. So, I am letting go of that idea. I know there are enthusiasts, but no amount of adjustment would make a 15" and soft dome into a true omni. I don't care to debate anyone about that, and I'm not making a value judgement of the Ohm products, because I have not used them in my room and have not reviewed them. I'm simply not seeking that design. 

My options seem to be:
+Replace just the surround IF I can find a person to do so within 150 mi of Chicago. 

+Replace just the surround myself - and thinking through the tasks involved, and considering I have never done so, I think that would be far too risky to the vintage cone, and the odds are great that I would not get it centered properly. 

+Send them off to get them redone. Incurs shipping costs and potential damage through shipment, which, sadly, is a fairly high possibility. But, I could get the spiders replaced and get them closer to original condition. I realize this would not be to spec, but so what? I'm not spending $7-8K, either. 

+ Go full boatload, and have HHR Exotic Speakers build a new vintage set. If I send in the three parts usable I incur shipping costs, which probably would drain most of the benefit of the parts being sent in, but it's a whole new ball game in every respect. Cost between $7-8K I estimate. Big money for a project that I didn't intend to spend money, and a commitment to an omni as a reference, when it has always been a for fun genre. Would it be "worth it" in terms of quality? No doubt, absolutely. But, do I want to support that much for another speaker that I literally do not need? It is a way to get a large chunk of HHR Exotic performance for about half price of a redesigned model. 

I know, what miserable problems to have. It just shows that none one should ever give speakers away! It just brings problems to people! LOL 
The previous owners would probably be amazed at the level of concern, time, and perhaps money spent on this, given that they were going to take them to the dump. 

I see Dale's rebuild of the classic as a beautiful opportunity. I also think that a competent rebuild by Bill is just as compelling, given the price differential between the two. There are very serious disagreements in terms of the sound quality of the speaker given both scenarios. That is the most difficult to cipher. Dale believes the compromises to having the current drivers rebuilt by anyone else ruins the pristine nature of the speaker. Others say pretty doggone good sound can come from a rebuild, or even just re-surround. I get both perspectives, and I have heard hundreds of systems in my home, so I get the spectrum of performance. I see both points. 

Given that they do work, and I am not hearing distortion at reasonable levels, to find someone in midwest to redo the surround I think is also a compelling thought. I am thinking of the possibility of treating the spider by placing the driver upside down, then applying some form of fabric stiffener to attempt to strengthen it. There are a number of serious risks with that, including 1. Altering the sound audibly, 2. when turning the speaker upside down, the severely compromised surround may be entirely destroyed with another 1/4 to 1/2 inch travel. That is a very real possibility, and 3. It may not work well to boot. 

As I consider doing the surround replacement myself, I wonder if leaving the spider assembly in place would allow me to center the surround far better. I would presume I could GENTLY press on the spider to move the voice coil and see how the gap is, whether there is some rubbing. Perhaps I could tack down the surround in a couple spots to try to fix it in place while allowing for some movement. That way I'm not full bore fixing it, then finding out the possibility of a problem. 

Frankly, I also should pull out the current speakers and run a real world comparison, trial of the Walsh F. They were just thrown into the room for viability, but I should position them and see whether I consider the alternative sound to be worth perhaps going full bore for a rebuild. 

NOW FOR ANOTHER, ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SCENARIO! 
What if I were to just try the self-repair, or at the most pro repair of the surround, and maybe with about $1K limit or so on the Ohm, shift my goal to upgrade the Kingsound King Tower, a hybrid omni?

It's a terrific small tower, and I believe has big potential. I have thought for years about juicing it. I believe it would benefit from the following: 
+Replacement of 10" and 6" drivers with superior ones
+Replace internal wiring
+Replace internal caps, or maybe entire crossover
+Treat "cabinet" modules for resonances

I do wonder about that rebuild, because it would be tricky. But, then again, someone assembled them, so I figure it has to be possible. Probably smart to not pull the wiring from the super tweeter and "can" omni tweeters, but leave them in place. 

If you want to see the King Sound King Tower, do a search for that phrase, then select the option to see Images. The speakers with an mbl amp, an image from RMAF, will show up. Those are my speakers, perhaps the only ones in N. America. Getting info not this speaker is like a top secret project; there is pretty much been a wiping off of documents on the net. I have a glossy brochure of it, THANKFULLY, with a small image of the internals, and I did not know that there appear to be tubes, like an SVS subwoofer, built inside for the dual/stacked bass drivers in the lower cabinet, and the mid driver in the middle cabinet. If there is no access from the bottom, then a rebuild idea is dead, because I'm not ripping off grills on the top of modules to do it. BTW, I ripped out the silly blue foam balls, and it's much better without them!  

I have gotten some pretty cool sound out of it; the speaker is a "poor man's" mbl. I think that would be a nifty project, too. My dream result would be to get both of these speakers going in good shape, and not have to junk one project for another. 

What do the esteemed aficionados think? Hit me with all your critiques and brainstorming! It is most appreciated! 

Doug, consider asking Ohm whether they are willing to make the speaker omni, by not installing the damping pad on the back side of the cylinder, and turning the supertweeter upward as for the surround speakers, for example. I also preferred a full omni (as in the F) vs. the newer Walsh drivers (thousand series) with controlled directivity design. However, with a full omni the central image does shift when you're not along the centerline between the two speakers (the F), whereas it is remarkably near center with the latest Walsh drivers. The latter is of great advantage in a home theater setting, as well as stereo listening if you're casually listening while sitting off center. I get an enjoyable sound even sitting beyond the left speaker, but not past the 90-degree line from the supertweeter axis.

With true omni designs, your choices are more limited. As mapman wrote, call Dale Harder for his versions of the F and A speakers. Otherwise, it's  either MBL or German Physiks, as far as I know.

Doug, If you are referring to the 4 switch control on the grill, this is only on the 5000 series and the 4900 (1 switch control) speakers. The 4000 series speakers and smaller do not have this. Presuming you have a decent sized room, you can get 4000 or 3000 series with their upgrade program. Just send in the F magnet assemblies / cabinets and pay the amount cited on their legacy page - slightly less than $3k for the 4000 series and slightly more than $2k for the 3000 series. If you want to consider this, contact John or Evan at Ohm and tell him your room size. He can recommend which speaker would work best for your situation. I also thought that they could sell you a current technology replacement driver that sits on top of your existing cabinet. Not seeing that option documented on their website now unless I have incorrectly interpreted the cited offers/costs above as being for completely new speakers and they are really for drivers for your existing cabinets.

I was a bit shocked that the newer Ohm speakers are not true omni. I had never bothered to look,  and it's radically different  than the Walsh.  I am only interested in a true omni. 

Should have known by visual assessment; you can't do true omni when you have a metal  plate and electronics behind. As I'm after an actual omni, I wouldn't consider it. It's either fix this or replace with similar. No longer interested in current Ohm products for this project.  

I was in a similar situation but I have a big room and I was encouraged by John to go the F-5015 route.  Here is how it played out for me.  John and Evan of Ohm and I started discussing changing a pair of Ohm F's that I had into some F-5015s starting in 2018.  I ended up deciding to trade in my F's, received the standard 25% off of the list price, and I ordered new F-5015s with one inch thick birch plywood cabinets.  I also had the option of sending in my F's and having them changed into F-5015s at a lower cost point where my cabinets would be rebuilt and re-veneered.  They actually encouraged me to do this and said the sound would be the same except at very high levels, but in the end, I decided to spend more for completely new.  I recall that it cost around $250 to buy all the packing material and to pay UPS to send in the two cabinets and the driver magnets to Ohm in Brooklyn from Michigan.  My traded in cabinets were in very good shape with the only damage being that the lower corners were very slightly rounded due to contact with objects.  There was no damage to the particle board under the veneer in these locations.  These were acceptable to Ohm for the trade-in.  Never asked what they did with my traded in cabinets.

Doug, depending on how old the F drivers are, your surrounds rotting is expected but quite overdue. I had F’s from 1977, and surrounds rotted in 1995. The spider suspension also sagged from the years under a heavy cone. Both are non-repairable by Ohm Acoustics. Furthermore, the inside of the cone has foam damping on the aluminum section. That also was flaking off on my speakers, but only if I touched those parts.

I first tried to repair the surround by ordering a similar sized surround from a place in Florida, if I remember. Installation was easy, took some patience, working methodically, and carefully scraping the old glue off the paper/cardboard part of the cone periphery. Gluing the replacement surround was about the same, making sure it’s centered so the voice coil doesn’t scrape against the magnet, and the edge of the cone is circular, not oval from the handling. This was the cheapest fix for me.

The completed surround repair will let you play the speaker. Ohm says it won’t sound as intended, due to the specific absorption of their surround to properly mechanically terminate the cone edge, that an aftermarket surround couldn’t do.

The other two options were to trade-in the drivers toward currently available speakers at a discount, or trade-in for the F3 driver to mount on my F cabinets. The F3 was clearly the most value.

I decided to upgrade to another Ohm Walsh speaker, and also take the F3 option. All four are in play, two as stereo, or all four as theater main and surround speakers.

Ohm currently appears to have 5 options for upgrading the F now. Good luck.

Hooked them up; even though the surrounds look ratty and the one spider sags, they are sounding pretty (given condition). Frustrating info on these pertains to some driver refurbishers not wising to even redo the surround. To send them back for complete overhaul of speaker, to make the old boy like new, we’re talking likely close to $7.5K, maybe more incl. shipping. I wasn’t looking to drop several grand on this.

Add to it that the cabinets are toast, would have to be replaced. So, in a sense, the speakers in terms of complete refurb are worth about a negative $100. Not my ideal of an inexpensive retro project.

Running into all sorts of conflicting info on merits of reconditioning driver, parts, etc. Spoke with Dale Harder, an encyclopedia on the speaker. I have a call in to Bill at Millersound to see about that possibility. BTW, everyone has been super-supportive and helpful! Thanks!

Isn’t that the way it goes? You think you may have a fix, perhaps in your back yard, Chicago area. No, they say, it’s thousands and half way across the country.

It gets to the point you say maybe do it yourself. Then you hear you get one shot, the slightest slip on this driver’s alignment and it’s over. It’s not like there are multiples of these cones are sitting around everywhere. Bummer.

Comments, suggestions, especially from people who have refurbished, redone drivers, more recently? My ideal would be to not have to ship (I would drive 150mi or so from Chicago area), and to start with replacing the surround to see if that is good enough.

I’m told that the spider can be helped by turning the unit upside down when not in use, and someone put a "stiffener" on it (coating) without hindrance.

My initial goal was to do an inexpensive repair and have some fun. But, I"m open to all comments.

BTW, I'm not trying intentionally to be cheap. I don't need a new reference speaker. This is supposed to be inexpensive fun. I'm torn between what I can get away with in terms of using it, and what it could be. But, a few hundred bucks to $1K, and $7K is a BIG gap. 

Looking at some very interesting options. Thanks to everyone who has participated! 

My recollection is the Ohm trade-in policy is that cabinets have to be in good enough condition for restoration so they can be refurbed and reused. Drivers do not matter.

I traded in an old pair of Walsh 2s and a pair of C2s towards mine and that lowered the price substantially. Plus it was summer sale time.

Duke,
Great analogy! The original quote was about wineskins. New wine could not be put into old (already stretched) wineskins, because the fermentation would rupture them. 

Speaking of rupture, one of the seams along the front of cabinet is splitting, so that would have to be considered, too. I'm sure there could be discussion of how the restorer might address it. 

Not just rebuilds.   They provide parts, trade-ins and upgrade services for every model they have ever built and they have been around since ~ 1970 or so.  Options for each model are outlined on the website. Nobody else I know of does that.   

Definitely call John Strohbeen at Ohm Acoustics (OA) before having a third party refurb the Ohm F’s.  He was very helpful with me in a number of situations regarding different models of Ohm speakers (Walsh 4s purchased in ‘87, microWalsh set for surround setup purchased in ‘06). 
OA have made upgrades which improve their vintage models, and have newer models that sound better and have improved power and size efficiencies. 
It’s pretty impressive how well OA supports their products. Buying my Walsh 4’s just after getting my first real job was one of the better decisions I made.

Imagine if every high end manufacturer had a "rebuild" program similar to Ohm's?

So you have a pair of Ohm F’s that have been "saved", and now want to know if they have a hope of being "resurrected"?

Hmmm. If the original drivers are irrepairable, but modern replacements are available, are we looking at putting new wine into old bottles??

Sorry, couldn’t resist!

Duke

Douglas, I've been enjoying my Ohm F speakers for one year now. Mine are rebuilt using 3000 series drivers. I reached the decision to buy following an informative and unhurried phone conversation with the owner of Ohm Acoustics, John Strohbeen. You probably should reach out to him (he answers the corporate phone...) so you're aware of the options, as he sees them. Good guy. Good luck, (and keep Ohms in your listening room!)

We’re not a bank Jerry. Contact bill deal at first federal. A little movie reference  for y’all .

cheers 

This thread is what the best of Audiogon is about :-))))))

I appreciate all the information and encouragement! 

contact Bill Legal of Miller Sound in PA

(215) 412-7700

The info on the OHM website says " All Ohm F’s are beginning the end of their functional lives. There is a foam damping material used around the base of the driver and inside that is failing from old age. We have never successfully repaired an Ohm F that was failing this way (the cone gets modified when you remove the old material and no longer sounds the same). For years, we replaced the old drivers with new ones. The last of these were made when the last craftsman retired. No more originals are available. But a series of upgrades with second generation drivers are available."
Worth a phone call I think, just to hear what the options are.

@russ69 -- the Ohm people haven't repaired the original Ohm As & Fs for many years now. They had one fellow who knew how to do it but he retired 10, 15 or perhaps more years ago. These days Ohm will only replace the driver with one of their current models.

As others have noted, Dale Harder is the only person I know of that works with the original drivers, so the OP would want to discuss his situation with Dale if he is determined to rescue his drivers.

This is the info you need. 

https://ohmspeaker.com/legacy-products/f/#main

FWIW, here’s a shot of my F5s, made at Ohm factory in Broooklyn for me ~ 2008:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/et3PRwzdYj5wSebCA

A lot of speaker built using refurbished Ohm F cabinets for the $5500 asking price at the time.

I thought at one time Bill LeGall at Millersound was repairing these but I may be mistaken.  If anyone can fix them he's one of the few, good luck.

Call Dale Harder at HHR Exotic. He is the only person I know that is reproducing a version of the Ohm F. His is called the TLS-1. He is an expert on this design and will give it to you straight. 

I am actually saving up for a pair of TLS-1s at the moment. 

Not sure who is around anymore with experience fixing those.
You could try contacting Dale Harder. He may be able to provide insight.
Ohm would provide very good sounding upgrades for the Fs but not repair for the original design which is different.
I have Ohm F5 series 3 model which is latest drivers from around 2008 on Ohm F cabinets that I bought from Ohm. That was series 3. Current drivers are further refined next series, the latest 5000 drivers. I can post pics if interested.

Loved the Ohm A.....you needed Boulder Dam to power them though