New streamer needed

Thanks, I will look into that too.

I don’t think I’ve seen this suggestion on the thread yet, but you might look into the Bluesound Node (Gen 3).  I went through this decision process last year and decided to get the Bluesound.  I like the app and the sound quality of the built in streamer is pretty good out of the box, the DAC not so much.  I am currently using the Node with a Chord Qutest DAC, and the combination serving snd playing ripped CD and high res files is the best sounding digital front end I have had in my system to date.  Streamed music is very close, even for mp3 and mp4 level material.

Two upgrades that have made a huge improvement in this combination: inserting a Chord Company Signature Super ARAY coax cable to connect the Node to the Qutest and adding a Teddy Pardo Dual5 - 2X5 3A power supply which powers both the DAC and the streamer.  The Pardo power supply was a revelation with the Node, lowering noise and removing any sibilants from more strident recordings.  This required some simple work inside the Node case to replace the internal switching supply board with a simple DC connector.  But if I can do it, anybody can do it.

Total cost of a Node (Gen 3) is $599 new, and a single output 5V supply from Teddy Pardo is $395 (assuming you don’t need to power your DAC too).  If you don’t mind the complexity of two boxes for streaming duties, you can have a very good sounding streamer with an excellent app for under a grand.

I looked into replacing the Node with a Node X, but don’t need the improved DAC or headphone amp, and the two models use the same powerful processor to manage streaming and serving functions.

kn

@audphile1 Sensible suggestions again, thanks!

Ok so DSD isn’t a requirement. But the main requirement stays which is you’re looking for a streamer that matches your cd player in sound quality. 
So my take on this is, buy new with return policy and try. You can start with the cheaper streamers at the bottom of your price range. If you’re satisfied with performance, you’re good!

Another option is to bring your cd player with your few favorite reference cds to a dealer that would let you compare in the store. That also means you will be evaluating it in a system you’re not familiar with but it may be a better option than blind buying anything. They might also give you a demo unit to take home for a day or two, who knows. 
Or like you said, buy used at a good price and sell if you don’t like it. 

@mdalton Okay, I get the noise reduction purpose now. Thanks

@audphile1 The only way to test it is to buy it new, or very cheap so you can sell it again. No, I don't have dsd files. That's another advantage of being older...:-)

@stievus was hoping they would have bridged that gap with android support by now.
As to the differences…I don’t know how it’s different from other wifi streamers. Auralic offers an overview of the design and their approach to wifi related noise on their website. To answer the question whether or not it sounds better than other WiFi streamers you have on your radar or matches the sound quality of your cd player, only you can determine that. Unfortunately until you have it in your system you won’t know.

And for DSD…if you don’t have a large collection of DSD files, I wouldn’t worry about it. Over 90% of your listening will be streaming from Qobuz or Tidal. 

lol! definitely old enuf to remember that.  just remember though, assuming no processing of the digital stream (e.g., oversampling, dsp), all a streamer does is move a digital data stream between a server and your dac.  In that case, the only thing that distinguishes one streamer from another is how they manage/minimize noise.  “Tone” is established in the analogue realm, which means your DAC and downstream from there (amp and speakers). If that were not the case, you would see streamers marketed with tubes.  Even the companies that market streamers that, in my view, are way overpriced don’t do that, which is a tacit acknowledgement of the silliness.  To channel another classic Python scene, talking about the airspeed of an unladen swallow makes more sense than discussing a streamer’s “tone”. 

It sounds unbelievable in 2024, but Auralic doesn't support Android. BTW was wondering what makes an Auralic such a good wireless streaming device, compared to other companies that also include WiFi in their streamers?

Not to open another can of worms, but is the possibility of streaming dsd files something that would be needed these days? I am asking because I am pretty sure I won't hear the difference with flac files. But maybe there are other reasons to have that

Better silly talk than silly walk. (If you are old enough then you know Monty Python had a ministry for that).

@stievus 

“on the bright side”!?  Please explain to me how a streamer contributes to tone.  That’s just silly talk.

You know that’s a good point. When i had it I don’t think they offered android version. Worth checking it out though. It’s been few years without Auralic for me and I can’t tell you for sure. 

PS Audio AirStreamer

Bel Canto e.One streamer 

Thanks, the Auralic G1 looks interesting and on the used market affordable. You say it's at the bright side. I guess my Merason Frerot dac can handle that. But does it also have an Android app?

Just checked hifi shark for Netherlands…plenty for sale…

https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=auralic+g1

not sure how reliable the site and the seller, but here it is at €1,499

https://www.marktplaats.nl/v/audio-tv-en-foto/mediaspelers/m2087510874-auralic-aries-g1

Look into a used Auralic Aries G1. Does wifi, caching, linear power supply. Nice user interface as well. It’s slightly brighter sounding but not to a degree to become offensive. Within the right system and paired with a good dac it will be very good.
Being the older model, I think you should be able to pick it up at a reasonable price. Auralic is highly regarded. 
 

https://us.auralic.com/blogs/news/aries-g1-review-by-positive-feedback
 

 well, you know where I stand on high priced gear…

Yes it does with a usb WiFi antenna. Should be the same as built-in WiFi. Not sure if I would need dsd and more than 192k. List price was €3490 versus €990 for the Volumio. Something will account for the price difference....

based on quick look at their website, doesn’t look like Metronome does wifi, so you should make sure.  But also much more limited regarding high res sample rates, both pcm and dsd; only 192k and dsd64,vs 768k dsd256 for Volumio.

Actually, I am hesitating between the Volumio Rivo and the Metronome DSS1 which is much more expensive but I can get for a good price. It's from a high-end french company.

Yeah 144 is more than enough. You can also get a cheap wifi extender for that room. If Volumeo comes with return policy, definitely try it. 
 

144 is plenty.  And the Volumio seems like a great choice - I really love the look!

Measured again. Speed is 144Mbps, strength -42 dBm. I assume that is good enough for WiFi connection I guess.

I have seen the 432 EVO but it's not wireless, I think. The Italian  Volumio Revo looks great too at an affordable price.

You have excellent gear in Europe look at a 432evo server they are modular and upgradable you can start with their entry level standard and then upgrade to any of the higher models

We have tested the Aeon vs a 25k Innous statement next gen and the Aeon Was just as good.

We tested vs a 12kaurender and the Aeon was better.

Our servers compare to much more expensive products and easily match or exceed their performance.

Www432evo.be

We are their us importers

DAVE and troy

AUDIO INTELLECT Nj

63mbps is not great, but is more than enough for high res music if it doesn’t fluctuate much (video is much more demanding).  For comparison, I’m getting over 375 in our mbr right now, and that’s probably the slowest of any room in the house.  But it’s all about the fluctuations; if you get a rock solid over 50, you shouldn’t have dropouts.

Assuming the speed coming in is much higher than this?

Get a mesh network. It’s inexpensive. Check EERO on amazon. 
You will improve your internet coverage throughout the living space and you can place one node in close enough proximity to your audio rack that you can either go wifi or wired. Keep in mind that wifi implementation in the streamer will possibly matter. It’s essentially another source of noise. But…the Auralic Aries G1 that I had few years ago sounded slightly better using wifi. Auralic pays special attention to the WiFi implementation though so keep that in mind. 

63mbps

Probably not. What’s the speed on wifi you’re getting there?

Does anyone know if a higher end wifi streamer is better able to 'neutralize'  the lower quality of the wireless connection (vs wired) than a cheaper streamer?

I am happy with my Innous streamer.

oh, one more thought, to emphasize.  You don’t need to spend alot for wifi streamers.  Am pretty sure that all 5 of the units unde $1k I mentioned do wifi.  Finally, I highly recommend you keep the server separate from the streamer. just as you’re keeping the dac separate from the streamer.  

Few observations:

- Do a wifi speed test near your router, and then where your streamer will be to determine whether you need anything to enhance speed (i.e., to get an idea of how much speed you lose with distance).

- A dongle is just a design feature; a Raspberry Pi has wifi capability without the need for a dongle.  The three wifi streamers i currently use all have dongles.  It’s just how they implement wifi.

- If you need something to enhance speed, I don’t see any reason why your original thought - TP Link with extender - wouldn’t work.  I use the mesh system network rather that my router’s network because I have 3 floors and my router is in the basement.  

Hope that helps.

Because of all kinds of security issues, it appears I cannot install a mesh network in the house. That means I would need a streamer with WiFi connectivity. The Métronome DSS2 ticks all the boxes, but is expensive and not available on the used market. The previous model, the DSS1 has WiFi connectivity but uses a dongle antenna for that. So it is not integrated in the streamer itself. I have no experience with using a dongle, so I don't know if this would work in the same way as built-in WiFi. Maybe some of you have an opinion on this? Also, perhaps you have other suggestion for streamer with WiFi? Thanks

Thanks, I will try that.

@stievus I use EERO mesh network throughout the house. One access point is close to the equipment rack. Ethernet cable is Purist Audio 🐈‍⬛ 7.

I have 400mps service and the EERO sees about 200-260mps. More than enough to stream high resolution files. I never had a problem.

btw, my home network is completely thru the mesh.  In other words, router to base mesh unit. then switch to same mesh unit. then everything else on network plugs to switch (e.g., small green computer which is my server, ethernet connection for my one wired streamer, etc.).

I have a high speed 3 unit mesh system, 1 unit for each floor.  I have 3 different streamers on wifi, one for each floor.  None are wired to a mesh unit, in other word 100% wifi, and they all receive high res files without issue.  I was prepared to get an additional mesh unit to site it right next to streamer and connect with cable if necessary, but was not needed. 

To make a wireless connection, is Is anyone of you using a TP link plugged into your router in one space and a slave unit put into the room the system is in, and from there to your streamer? Would that work for high resolution files?

@audphile1 No worries, as long as it is funny and ethical. Indeed, I would prefer a double blind experimental setup.

@moonwatcher I am using Qobuz since 2015.Good point about the interface.

Do you think Stevie Wonder can tell the difference between roland and a yamaha? Or is he full o’ 💩?

We’re highjacking the thread now and I don’t want to be hypocritical. So my apologies to the OP…

@benanders LMAO. I’d love to compare the two files though - one ripped with my $40 LG and another with that high end drive. But I won’t be buying it to do it because I’m pretty sure it would be exact same 💩 as my $40 drive and I would have to return the fancy burner. And that would be unethical. 

audphile1

3,790 posts

03-04-2024 at 10:59am 

@benanders that’s a solid advice! I did this as well. For the comparison I used dbpoweramp to rip to uncompressed FLAC. The software is free if you use just the basic features. CD rom drive is a $40 LG external unit. Nothing fancy. 

@audphile1 would the FLAC’s sound better if ripped with a weightier optical drive, SOTA USB cable and laptop with LPS? I would suggest my pref:

Teasing only in good fun - promise - just couldn’t help myself 😜

I still use a 10-year-old Samsung bus-powered optical drive to a desktop through an old Canon scanner’s USB cable, files sound indistinguishable from the original CD’s played back on an array of CD players / setups (some of which are far blingier than mine). It was particularly informative to compare the two formats on AIO streamer+CD player devices, since same sound from such a device implies truly no [audible] underlying differences resulted from my generic ripping setup.

This would actually be a really good scenario for taking advantage of that Wiim Pro return policy you admire. A happy-measurements device that many people like and good software support, but near bottom-of-barrel cost-wise, and compared (albeit probably sighted and subjectively…) to a real nice CD player.

@stievus , it could be a straightforward way to toe the water before diving in the deep end? If your expectations don’t get the best of you and your ripped FLAC’s do sound similar to the CD’s, that would rule out a more costly streamer. Only thing you’d be missing are the club points and bragging rights from a given high end streamer manufacturer. 😉

Of course, even if an inexpensive streamer option like Wiim sounded different than your CD player, that wouldn’t insinuate it being the streamer, as the DAC could also have that role. Or depending on how deep you dive into component expectations/suspicions/synergies/etc, interaction of a specific streamer x DAC, or streamer x DAC x interconnects, or…

This is also an excellent chance to do blind testing, but that approach seems remarkably unpopular on Audiogon. It saved me a lot of money to redirect at demonstrably influential parts of my chain, but to each their own so no pressure implied!

Whatever streamer you decide upon, make sure the user interface is easy and even fun to use. If it is a chore to work, you'll HATE it every single time you use it, and eventually you'll find yourself spinning discs instead.  If the Aurrender UI is top notch then for your money, I'd go with one of those. 

That the $299 WiiM Pro can offer a superb app while many of those selling streamers for four figures don't is telling. 

I don't think I saw what streaming service the OP uses in these posts, but if you are using Tidal, a streamer that supports Tidal Connect natively makes life simple and enjoyable. 

Many are waiting and hoping for a "Qobuz Connect" app to arrive soon - and for streamers to support it. 

Good luck. 

@stievus Yes, very happy with price… when I saw it on TMR as a trade in, jumped on it immediately.
My CD player is a Marantz CD6007, attached via digital coax to my Chord Qutest, with the N150 attached via USB. Thanks. 

That sounds like a good price. Which CD-Player are you using? Vinyl is also my number one.

BTW, I was the OP on one of the recent streamer posts. I ended up buying a lightly used N150 for $2K. Very happy with my decision… perfect form factor, great sound & love the conductor app, particularly through my iPad. 
I also use Qobuz. I would rank the sound of my system as follows:

1. Vinyl

2. High resolution Qobuz

3. CD

4. Lower resolution Qobuz. 

But all close. Hope this helps. 

Thanks, makes sense! Now just need to find the right streamer model that can be tried at home in my system. And then trying to eliminate confounders...

Entertaining exchange!

@benanders that’s a solid advice! I did this as well. For the comparison I used dbpoweramp to rip to uncompressed FLAC. The software is free if you use just the basic features. CD rom drive is a $40 LG external unit. Nothing fancy. 

mdalton

235 posts

03-03-2024 at 08:28pm 

… my advice would be to get a streamer that does 0 processing to the native data stream.  That doesn’t mean you’re limited to 44.1k, it just means you would be hearing the music in the format that it was mastered to be played in, thru the DAC that you like. (This goes back to what @benanders may have been trying to get at a while ago, btw.)

Sure. There are multiple issues here. From what I’m reading, the first issue is not knowing if the CD’s and streamed files are the same (bit depth, master source, etc.), second is comparing two different pairs of devices.

Once a streamer model is chosen, use ripped files of the CD’s for comparison - not a streaming service. If some EAC FLAC or WAV files from storage sound the same as the CD player, the culprit is probably your streaming service. If they sound different, then you’re still confounded by tandem variables (DAC —> streamer) even if bias isn’t in the equation.