theaudiotweak,
As atdavid said, it does not matter, but those are contact enhancers.
As atdavid said, it does not matter, but those are contact enhancers.
New Omega E Mat from Perfect Path Technologies
Many of you own or have read of the highly-regarded PPT Omega E Mat, one of Tim Mrock’s revolutionary signal-enhancing accessories. Just prior to his untimely passing, Tim had finished developing a new generation of his Omega mat, soon to be available. Krissy Mrock has asked a few of us to introduce this new mat, here given the working title of The Double Omega.
In distinguishing the Double Omega, we know the original Omega, herein called the single, as a 7.5” by 10”, rather heavy and somewhat pliable mat, a bit more than 1/8” thick and with a vinyl-like feel. One face is glossy white, displaying the PPT logo and Omega name, while the other is black, smooth and magnetized. Sandwiched between these faces is the active material that causes components to reject the EMI that saturates everything in our surroundings. The Double Omega is much the same, with one important difference: the magnetized face has the finely-textured feel of around, say, 220-grit sandpaper. This texture, it is presumed, comprises yet a second active layer of EMI rejection. Presumed—because working details of the Double Omega are not well understood—better yet to know how to apply it.
With the understanding that the single Omega E mats generate field effects from both faces, mats have typically been placed under and over components and vertically over circuit breakers. How you apply the Double Omega will depend on best use and experimentation. In my case, I have removed two single mats, lying side-by-side, from the top of my large Wadia CDP and have replaced those with two Double Omegas. The Wadia is a one-box player that contains a pre-amp, so I wanted that second, strong field effect exerting downward as well as upward. I also have several singles placed underneath, just as before. Going straight to amps, this player is my only source, so I want it fully protected from EMI. Your priorities will differ.
As of this writing, I am only thirty-hours in on placing these Double Omegas, and I can already tell you they are powerful in their prevention of EMI within my digital source. Yet another veil has been lifted—all instruments and voices are even more sorted out in the aural space with new information heard within that space. There is much more decay heard against a new silence behind and between the musicians. I am already so pleased and excited about what the Double Omega E mats are doing. As Krissy told me, Tim was really stoked to have these new mats available. Rather than wait for the the fourteen-day window of improvement, I want to get this intro out so others can relay their experiences sooner.
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theaudiotweak, "type in Tim's last name its that simple."It brings two patents for contact enhancer. Is there some other spelling? jetter, Your comment about contacting the lady is a little out of place, bad taste at this moment, you could say. Nobody would do that, regardless of the patent situation. Try to remember that neither jay23, nor me, nor a few others have started, or asked for it to be started, a thread about these mats. Being virtually invited to it, and then scolded for wanting to participate was not expected. Calm down. |
Well, I couldn't help myself as I noticed how much traffic was on this thread. I do have one question....Is there any chance of the Omega Mats becoming saturated...IE non-effective? I know the product I'm going to mention is different but, here goes....the grounding blocks (many manufactures)...where I've read they get saturated making them less or no longer useful. |
Hi jay, you must be a pretty smart guy to be so aware of the patent laws. Why don’t you PM the widow of the inventor of the PPT products whose husband has just passed away and express your concerns first hand. I'm sure she would be really interested to discuss them with you to ensure compliance. Or better yet, why don't you turn her in to the patent police? |
I see I've missed many pages while away on business. @glupson You are right to question things. Not everything is as peachy as the PTP crew would have you believe. PPT claims of the EMAT+, "Even more of our patented 'perfect path effect'!" Patent laws state, "A patentee who makes or sells patented articles, or a person who does so for or under the patentee is required to mark the articles with the word 'patent' and the number of the patent." So either they aren't following requirements, or they have no patent and are guilty of false advertising. A patent number shouldn't be difficult to provide if there is one. |
Yea I have been sitting on the sidelines reading but not posting. Not knowing of his illness I would send research articles nearly everyday to Tim..this stuff would show up on my phone..mostly about new takes on particles with new and novel twists. His replys became less frequent. The last one sent was an article in the NewYork Times. I got a reply almost immediately not from Tim but from his Bride telling me her best friend passed away a couple of days before. I cried to my bride. All of our loss... Tom . |
Tim's main system is indeed impressive. I have had the pleasure of hearing (and seeing) it, too briefly, when I visited him. I wish that I could spend more time listening and really getting to know what it's capable of. It is clearly a labor of love by a true audio and music enthusiast. Tim had no fear of trying new things, and that is a big part of how he came to develop these groundbreaking products. |
theaudiotweak ... Nice post. I had second thoughts on posting Tim’s suggestions to improve my speakers, but now that you’ve brought it up, here it is: Tim called and asked me if I had a felt-like material around the outside of the drivers on my speakers. I said that I did. Tim suggested that I paste the felt material with Total Contact. I thought ... riiiight. Well, I did and the improvement was immediate. Then he called back and said that he had done some research on my speakers and suggested that I VERY carefully apply a thin coat of Total Contact to the screens covering the Dual Air Motion Tweeters. I did, then sat back and was shocked at how much better the highs became. After that, I took the access cover off of the crossovers and pasted everything I found there. Zowie, another improvement. There’s a lot more to Total Contact than just coating the ends of a cable loop. Frank |
Tim and I talked about simple things that can make for a nice improvement. One was my mention of replacing all the steel fasteners holding down his speakers, diaphrams, and crossover components. Brass is nonferrous, and has low or no inductance. He was blown away with the improvement even on the ribbon drivers..that supprised him the most. We both painted the baskets of the drivers and for myself I painted the bezel around the tweeter. Tim treated his entire speaker in segments and then when he knew how great the improvement was he painted the whole darn thing. When one was complete it just disappeared and he had to jump right over and treat its mate..For me once the paint cured there was a nice improvement. But I didnt have buckets of paint so I was more selective in my treatments such as the brass screws. Nice even more. He told me his speakers for the show were a fairly recent but discontinued Klipsch RP series 2 way. Dual 8 model with horn tweeter. He told me he wanted it to remain stock for the show...adding only his magic treatments to all the stock components. I think he treated the inside of the cabinet and told me he built his own wiring harness and treated that as well. When he told me about this speaker pair he modded and how it sounded he was as giddy as an 9 year old at Christmas..He built it as a showcase for his products and their application. He didnt change the crossover components or values..no brass fasteners no new isolators or couplers..all stock. The newer Klipsch series speakers are quite good. I know I have sold them in the very recent past. At no time were the speaker drivers treated..only the stationary parts. Tim was a great guy.. smart man and he was a great listener and always had an idea on fire. Will miss you Tim ...So says Tom. |
Very interesting post Oregonpapa... It is my experience, without the genius of this guy for sure, that almost all people already own more than correct gear for an audiophile experience of the first order, modulo room treatment, vibration-resonance controls, electro-magnetic grid of the room and the house treatment and some other supplementary tweaks... Interesting thread.. All my sympathies goes to his friends and family .My best to all... |
david_ten ... Here’s Tim’s main system ... Speakers - Newform Research 645’s. Sub Woofers - Gallo. CD Player - Consonance - with the stand. Amps - Unico DM Italian amps. No pre-amp. Power supply - Huge unit made in the 1950s that Tim modified. Cables - All custom built by Tim using the same technology that is in The Gate. All electronics and the complete interior of the speakers, including crossovers and driver baskets, are completely treated with Total Contact ... plus a Gate in the circuit breaker box and mats galore everywhere. I think Krissy told me that Tim had eighty (80) mats throughout the system. I can attest to the quality of Tim’s cables. He sent me two power cords that he had built for the show to try out. I had them for three weeks. They were fantastic and much like adding another Gate to the system. I went through a total withdrawal when I returned them. I can only imagine what an entire loop would sound like. Then there was the second system that he built for the show. For the life of me, I cannot remember the brand of the speakers, but they can be bought at Best Buy for $1000. Tim bought his used at an auction for $165 for the pair. The amp was the new Mac integrated, New Mac CD player and that power supply that Tim had built for the main system. Then with all of the above wires, and the speakers totally tricked out like above too. The idea was to get really great sound from those speakers that almost anyone can afford, and have the system blow everyone’s mind. He even made special room treatments that he told me were absolutely fantastic. The guy was a genius. Frank |
david_ten ... I was more familiar with the system he had built for the Capital Audio Fest that he had to cancel. I'll ask Krissy and get back to you. Frank |
uberwaltz,
Of course, those might have not been the exact words, but a few posts above I was made aware that asking about what patent is in place here is not a good taste at this time. I will respect that to avoid offending someone. Add a few more of my questions that ended up with me becoming a troll and whatever else, and one would get a sense that questions are strongly discouraged. On a completely different note, does anyone know how many of those RCA caps are included in $10 quoted price? It seems it is 10, but picture of the bag looks like it could be way more. |
viber6 ... Thanks for the question regarding contact enhancers. My experiments with contact enhancers began over 15 years ago. If I remember correctly, the degradation of these products took place over a period of months. While some were very effective initially, they all eventually began to dull the sound, mainly in the high frequencies. Enter Tim and his "Total Contact" contact enhancer. Tim contacted me via PM around three years ago and asked me if I would like to beta-test the product. I told him not a chance because of my previous experiences. Over about a three-week period of trying to convince me, he finally did. On the PPT "Total Contact" ... I have had some contacts treated for around three years now with no degradation. When I talked to Tim about this, he said that he did some custom work on circuit breaker panels for customers over ten years ago, and still no degradation. To further discuss your questions; the Total Contact dries to a hard plastic-like material. That is the "curing" process that I alluded to in many posts. This is why one has to have patience with it. In some applications, it will degrade the sound initially. When I did the inside of my power conditioner, for example, I used an entire tube of TC to get the job done, and laid it on thick. It sounded like crapola for at least a week and a half. Bass became muddy, and the mid-bass was almost non-existent. The system was boring to listen to. Tim kept ensuring me that everything would come back better than ever. Sure enough, it did, and I was more than delighted with the results. During the curing process after pasting the "normal" connections, like spade lugs, IC and PC’s, there wasn’t a degradation, but an improvement. After pasting the "normal" connections, Tim told me that I would hear a big jump in SQ at four weeks and then another BIG one at eight weeks. Sure enough, right on schedule, there it was. It was the curing process taking effect. The improvements in SQ at both of those time periods were quite dramatic. You shouldn’t be concerned about removing the TC. A cotton swab and rubbing alcohol will remove it rather easily. Hope this answers your questions. Frank |
RF and EMI absorbing sheets are quite common in industry, relatively inexpensive, and easily sourced. The technology has been around for a long time. For high frequencies, typically carbon black, graphene, etc. embedded in a polymer, for lower frequencies, magnetic materials such as ferrite, fine iron powder embedded in a polymer (and of course hybrids). When exposed to EMI, the particles self-resonate and convert the EMI to heat. Sometimes there is a conductive layer to shield and/or to cause the EMI to reflect back through the material for more absorption. The particle sizes/material are tuned or varied to cover different frequencies. |
Glupson. I am not sure I have actually ever seen the verbiage " no questions allowed" myself, but I do not read every post. I would have said it was more akin to " ask whatever you like but do not be offended if you do not get your answer" Tbh, I never cared how or why, science cannot explain a LOT of stuff no matter what some would try and have you believe. The acid test was and always will be for myself.... What does it sound like? And life is good! |
glupson said... "Has anyone been curious enough to attempt to figure out why the Mat works? It is great when the product works, but is anyone curious what makes it tick?' You can buy one and take it apart to see what makes it tick.Other than that...I doubt you will get any help from PPT. |
jetter, I do not mean to disrespect his wishes, no matter how unusual they may be. However, I could have never guessed that a person would not be allowed to ask about something clearly posted on the website. In particular, about something that is frequently posted elsewhere for everyone to see. Try to understand that most of us have not known the man and do not know anything about him, or his wishes. Much less about his work. I will leave it at that. |
glupson,... Sad story and I understand parts of why a few of you would get so emotional.In this case I doubt that you do understand. We all have wondered how the mats work and have asked Tim in the past, and Tim has been clear that he prefers to not share the technical details about how his products work. I do not in any way think this is your intent, but your not respecting his clearly stated wishes at this time is in bad taste. |
Sad story and I understand parts of why a few of you would get so emotional. Going back to this particular Omega E Mat+, after noticing differences, has anyone investigated further? Info on the website implies more of something that is patented. Has anyone been curious enough to attempt to figure out why the Mat works? Not just "less RFI" or whatever else has been mentioned in this thread. What is this patent, that seems crucial in the story, all about? It is great when the product works, but is anyone curious what makes it tick? And the answer may be relatively close. Does the packaging have some info about it? Years ago, even Matchbox cars mentioned patents on their underside. No, don’t call me skeptic, call me curious and eager to learn. |
Frank, Thanks for your balanced info about various tweaks that were good and others that were bad. You also said, "various contact enhancers that sounded great in the beginning, then degraded over time and had to be removed." In what time periods did it take for them to degrade? This might be true about Total Contact as well. How long have you used it? We don't yet know how long it might take to degrade, and whether it will be able to be removed totally if this is indeed possible. |
Have been asked to return to this thread. My apologies to Glupson for my unseeming behavior. However he does need to get out a bit more and read some more threads. I for one ,along with Frank, Ozzy ,BDP24 just to name a few, have more than once reported on tweaks that did not perform as hoped for. Now that goes NOT mean they do not work period, just that they did not work for us at that time in our present system configuration. I still firmly believe that it is all about system synergy. What may be reported to work well for one may very well underperform for someone else. That does not mean it is a bad product or does not work. I for one have returned solid copper core speaker cables for a full refund as they just bloated the bass to horrible extremes in my rig. Others report good things about them. If it appears that PPT products have a near universal success rate then it is what it is. A great product by a great designer sadly no longer with us. |
I feel the same way, jafreeman. Tim, Krissy and I became friends over time. I want these products to succeed too, for Krissy's sake, of course, but also for the advancement of the hobby ... and for the enjoyment that other hobbyists will get out of them. This really is a giant leap forward and it deserves success. Frank |
Ok, I accede to Frank's more magnanimous nature and apologize to everyone. I promised to uphold a standard of decency on this thread---I have broken with that. In the past, I have been protective of PPT products because Tim, the originator, was trying to get off the ground, and his offerings worked so well, I was spared the desire to upgrade. With each addition, some sent gratis, I have become more appreciative of the results--and of my modest system. Lately, with Tim's passing, I and others have been supportive of she who remains to carry forth the business and legacy. She is determined, she is generous, she is mourning. We want her to succeed. I would have to say I'm a bit selfish in that, because these products are extremely important--and to some of the most avid system builders. |
oregonpapa, It is refreshing to read about "unsuccessful" tweaks. Not because I want them to fail, but because it all seems a bit more balanced. Just notice how rarely you will encounter statements that you, I must admit bravely, just made. Others do not seem to be that forthcoming. Or, maybe, they are just luckier than you and they had no failures. I hope to get to the description of that patent. It is a part of description/advertisement (sales pitch, I guess) on the website. No matter how tight-lipped the inventor was, once it is patented it should be traceable somewhere and somehow. Maybe I will be luckier tomorrow. Maybe someone has already found it and is willing to share that, usually, public info. |
glupson ... Sorry, I don’t have the answers to your questions. I’m not privy to any information re: patents, formulas, processing ... nada. Tim was tight-lipped and held things very close to his chest when it came to that kind of information. Over the years, I’ve tried numerous tweaks that actually degraded the sound. Shrink-wrap on the tonearm. Two layers were good. Any more than that and the sound became dulled. Mu Metal ... too much and the sound dulls. Various contact enhancers that sounded great in the beginning, then degraded over time and had to be removed. Expensive CD enhancements that rolled off the highs and had to be abandoned. Tube rolling that was unsuccessful. Various footers, some good and some bad. With over 40 years in the hobby, I’ve tweaked a lot, and some were successful and others not. What can I say more about the PPT products and the SR products that I’ve reported on, and recommended here, other than give me a little trust? The best thing to do is to read the other member’s posts and see what they’ve found using products that I’ve recommended. They can’t all be charlatans, right? Take care ... Frank |
oregonpapa, You did find a tweak that did not improve whatever it was supposed to improve. Have you ever experienced any that actually made it worse? Such reports are really sparse with the caveat that I do not sift through them meticulously. I could find two patents under Mr. Mrock’s name in the U.S.A. Both seem to be for contact enhancer. Omega E Mat info mentions that no physical contact is needed so I thought those patents may be irrelevant in this case. Am I wrong? Could contact enhancer improve contact in decidedly contactless environment? Omega E Mat+ info claims double the power of the original one due to two-sided approach with more of the patented effect. Is that some other patent not under Mr. Mrock’s name, maybe licensed from another entity? Not skeptical, just curious about the way things are allegedly working. |
glupson ...
I other threads I've talked about the benefits of the Herbie's products. I'm using their tube dampeners throughout the system. I'm also using Herbie's feet under my CD player. These items improved the sound significantly. I also tried Herbie's Black Hole CD dampener and heard no improvement what-so-ever. I reported that as well. One A'gon member asked me via PM if I wanted to sell the Herbie's Black Hole CD mat, and I just mailed it to him free of charge. Subsequently, he told me that it did have a positive effect using it in his CD player. Rather than bashing the product as ineffective, I remained neutral, thinking that it was perhaps system dependent. Turns out, that was the case. I call 'em as I see 'em ... nothing more, and nothing less. As for the patent numbers, this question has been raised before. If memory serves me correctly, I think there were two patents. For the numbers, you might talk to Krissy personally when you order your two new Omega+ E-mats. :-) Frank |
I am not a basher but a seeker of truth via listening and measurements if the latter is possible. Yes, I have purchased and made shielded clothing which improves my sleep, and this correlates with dramatically lower RF measurements under the clothing. On lessEMF.com, there are advertised specs which I have confirmed by my own measurements using the esi24 meter I bought from them. So I am seeking someone with more technical expertise than me, to measure these PPT products. You all think that the improvement in sound is due to reduction of RFI, but you don't know, and maybe most happy users don't care. Maybe Tim Mrock was a master technician who did these measurements in the development of these products, or he developed them empirically by listening to what sounded good to him. I still think he (now Krissy) could reveal these measurements without revealing proprietary info about the actual construction and materials used. This is analogous to amp manufacturers who reveal the specs but don't reveal the actual circuits. |
oregonpapa, In my other life, I am not that skeptical. I am not skeptical even here, but, again, the posts in this particular thread were written in a way that seemed so over the top that it became "this seems strange". In general, when it comes to reading about tweaks, I find it unexpected that all the tweaks seem to be for better. I do not know if I have ever read a negative tweak story. Some do not believe in tweaks, fine, some do, fine, but those who do do not seem to ever find them detrimental. Isn't that a little strange? Just by luck, statistics, whatever, it needs to happen, and it is not that common at all. I am not talking about this thread, but now, whenyou asked me about being skeptical. |
^^^ Guyz ... Personally, I believe that the new Omega + mats are more effective than two of the mats that came before them. No, I haven't measured anything other than going by my ears ... but I know what I'm hearing. I don't believe that doubling up on the original mats will get you what one of the new mats will. There occurs a richness in tone that wasn't afforded by the original mats. This should not be taken as a coloration at all. It is just that for some reason, more of the beauty of the instruments and voices are allowed to surface, making the music more involving ... a lot more like one would hear live. I know another A'goner who is familiar with my system. He has just installed the Omega + mats into his system, and he concurs with what I'm saying here. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Glupson ... I don't think you're a bad person. I just don't understand why you are so skeptical, especially with all of the positive reports in these threads concerning these products. I suspect that you are leary about most things in general and that you question almost everything and everyone ... until you trust them. My brother is exactly like that. He absolutely hates to be taken advantage of, and he lets it be known too. He's retired now after a long career in law enforcement. He was a good cop, with the personality to match. Please don't take this as a negative affront, because it is not meant that way at all. You are you, and I am me ... and the twain shall meet. Just different personalities. That's it in a nutshell. Frank |
Hi bdp24, PPT pricing has recently been greatly reduced. One original Omega mat used to cost $600, now it is only $300. Two Omega+ mats (Emat+) at $900 is now a bargain, especially since the Emat+ is being reported as a doubling of power in rejecting EMI. Do you have a component surface upon which you can place one, where the field effect will project downward as well as upward? Or, placed over your breaker panel switches is a good place. For the original Omega mat, I like to place them under a component. Both versions do project a field upward and downward, though. |
Glupson If you don’t like my attitude then there is no need to engage me any further. Sorry but I don’t mince words or sugar coat anything. A spade is a spade. Not ONCE have you EVER seen me post over hyped accolades on ANY product here. I just report the results as I have seen and heard them. Pity you can’t say the same now..... I'm done here as some people you just cannot reach. I let the music decide for me, not mindless bickering. Ciao! |