New Klipsch Klipschorn AK7 & La Scala AL6 will be active DSP Crossover

Just to be clear , New models will be available passive and the active crossover as an upgrade and it require multi channel amp

More info about them just released , they were holding for the official rlease

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjX4d-3TrEY

These will be great upgrades for the two mentioned Klipsch models - both the new Tractrix horns + 2" exit cinema compression drivers, and not least the optional active configuration. It’s how I configure my horn-loaded speaker system as well, fully actively, and once you learn of the potential it holds with this segment of speakers vs. passive config., there’s no going back to my mind.

Klipsch should be commended for being among the very few to hopefully make outboard active configuration more broadly known, and in layman’s terms trying to explain what it’s about. Really, it’s not that difficult, and the advantages speak for themselves. In a system context one of the true bottlenecks to speak of is that of the speaker to amplifier interface with passively configured setups, and actively it will be all the more clear the resolving potential is entailed in the source material.

Thanks for posting.

@phusis Wrote:

 Klipsch should be commended for being among the very few to hopefully make outboard active configuration more broadly known, and in layman’s terms trying to explain what it’s about. Really, it’s not that difficult, and the advantages speak for themselves. In a system context one of the true bottlenecks to speak of is that of the speaker to amplifier interface with passively configured setups, and actively it will be all the more clear the resolving potential is entailed in the source material.

I agree. In my opinion, no speaker will be state of the art with a passive crossover.

Mike

Love the new design approach and it’s wonderful you have the option to use the speakers without all the additional signal processing which is something I abhor! I have lusted for the La Scala AL5 in American walnut though for years (even the II) and if I had a place to put them that’s the way I’d go before they go out of production. The black might also do if I had no other choice.

I also have to add that Klipsch's engineering was left in good hands with Roy Delagado.  He's achieved a level of refinement of Paul Klipsch's already revolutionary designs that is above reproach having lived with and loved the Heresy IV and the Cornwall IV.  

@faustuss wrote:

... it’s wonderful you have the option to use the speakers without all the additional signal processing which is something I abhor!

Really it's outboard active configuration that's the optional approach here, as passive configuration and typically only using a single amp has been the only route so far, and thus by all accounts will be the default and most common way to configure these new Klipsch models looking ahead - that is, certainly until people begin to experience or otherwise learn about the traits of active config., at which point it's likely to be more widely implemented. 

Few seem to realize that the more predominant signal degradation lies in the passive crossover network in the midst of the amp-speaker interface and not a quality DSP unit prior to amplification, which negates the passive crossover components on the output side of the amp and keeps them from meddling with its control over the drivers. Not to mention the benefit of amp load independency of the different driver segments that sees each their dedicated amp section handling them exclusively, in addition to the advantages of being able to apply differentiated delays, etc. 

So the active crossover digitizes the input signal?

@m-db wrote:

So the active crossover digitizes the input signal?

If it’s an analogue input, yes, and so it has to be converted back to analogue from digital (where the Digital Signal Processing is taking place) on the output side of DSP before it enters the amplifiers. Unless of course the amps have digital inputs (like Lyngdorf/Tact) in which case the signal can remain digital all the way from a digital source to just prior to the output section of the amp, at which point it will have to be analogue going to the drivers.

Before being sceptical about a possible A/D to D/A conversion step in a DSP with analogue inputs only, however, consider this: what’s most important is the quality of the DSP unit itself, not whether it adds an additional A/D conversion step at the input side. People get too high strung about these conversion steps, especially when not taking into account that the whole of the passive crossover is removed from the "equation" and instead letting a quality DSP handle the crossover function prior to amplification, on signal level, and with the additional amps required for the respective driver sections.

I can understand the principle among those with an analogue source and wanting the signal to remain analogue all the way to the speakers, even if - personally - I’d consider digitization in a quality DSP the lesser evil for fully active configuration rather than staying with passive crossovers for an all-analogue approach. Having said that and to reiterate, I understand the anti-DSP sentiment from those with analogue sources, if nothing else to stay analogue on principle alone.

Oh, of course: there’s also line level analogue electronic crossovers for active configuration like the ones found in ATC speakers, and this way there’s no digitization when going active.

All in all, it seems as if Klipsch is having a moment.  Actually, if I'm reading the tea leaves correctly, the Klipsch moment is connected to a couple of other moments: 1) the growing (though still niche) popularity of low power SET amps, and 2) growing popularity (though still niche) of highly efficient speakers.  The two are related of course, and the Klipsch Heritage line is well positioned to benefit because of its lineup of uber efficient transducers.  But Klipsch is not merely resting on its laurels by schlepping their old designs and chanting odes to St. Paul.  They are tweaking and refining their old models with new drivers, crossovers (internal as well as external) and even have a new speaker in collaboration with a newcomer, the Klipsch Ojas 2-way speaker reviewed in Stereophile this months.  Also note the interview of Roy Delgado, Klipsch's head designer.  (Someone in the Klipsch marketing department must be wide awake too!)  Good for them and good for the hobby.

@phusis 

"Really it's outboard active configuration that's the optional approach here, as passive configuration and typically only using a single amp has been the only route so far, and thus by all accounts will be the default and most common way to configure these new Klipsch models looking ahead - that is, certainly until people begin to experience or otherwise learn about the traits of active config., at which point it's likely to be more widely implemented. 

Few seem to realize that the more predominant signal degradation lies in the passive crossover network in the midst of the amp-speaker interface and not a quality DSP unit prior to amplification, which negates the passive crossover components on the output side of the amp and keeps them from meddling with its control over the drivers. Not to mention the benefit of amp load independency of the different driver segments that sees each their dedicated amp section handling them exclusively, in addition to the advantages of being able to apply differentiated delays, etc."

Interestingly, there is nothing new here and any well-seasoned hobbyist is well aware of the multitude of approaches to sound reproduction and accepts them as revelatory or rejects them out right.  We've seen this over and over again at least as long as I've been around.  You should have a look at @norcalal's post preceding this one.

Chow.

Call me a skeptic on the active/dsp option, I'd have to hear it in direct comparison to the passive. I have both HQPlayer and Roon dsp to play with prefer no dsp with my considerably modified Klipschorns.

I do like the direction Klipsch Heritage is taking with Roy, finally getting better drivers and horns, the old metal exponential horns were absolutely horrible.

@faustuss wrote:

Interestingly, there is nothing new here and any well-seasoned hobbyist is well aware of the multitude of approaches to sound reproduction and accepts them as revelatory or rejects them out right. We’ve seen this over and over again at least as long as I’ve been around. You should have a look at @norcalal’s post preceding this one.

Chow.

Most audiophiles have heard of active speakers, yes, but not that many of them seem to have a firm grasp of the definition and implications of active configuration(s) and what it really means, requires and offers.

Introducing Digital Signal Processing (that you apparently loathe), often comes on top of an existing, passively configured speaker system as a means into digital room correction, and in that regard DSP is an additional measure, but the point of active configuration is by-passing the passive crossover section, which in the case of the new Klipsch models means removing the cable jumpers on the back that connects the output terminals from the passive XO with the driver input terminals, and instead wiring the respective amps (3 stereo amps or 6 mono dittos) directly to each of the driver input terminals, that are again wired directly to each of their drivers. Meaning, each amp is fed with a line level signal from the DSP telling them the specific frequency range to cover, and thus one means of filtration (analogue, on the output side of the amp) is replaced by another (digitally, on the input side).

Running speakers outboard actively via a quality DSP/electronic crossover with amps and DAC of one’s own choosing is certainly not your everyday audiophile meal; in fact, it’s a rarity - to put it mildly. So, getting down to brass tacks there is something new here, and that’s a speaker manufacturer (among few) that offers outboard active configuration as on option on top of, or rather in addition to their - as an outset - passively configured and horn-loaded speakers.

And just to be clear: to be "well aware of the multitude of approaches to sound reproduction" one has to have actual experience with their entire range to be able to fairly assess them and deem their revelatory or rejectional status, as you so put it, or else it’s just talk and conjecture.

@phusis "And just to be clear: to be "well aware of the multitude of approaches to sound reproduction" one has to have actual experience with their entire range to be able to fairly assess them and deem their revelatory or rejectional status, as you so put it, or else it’s just talk and conjecture."

Isn't this exactly where you're coming from?

@faustuss wrote:

Isn't this exactly where you're coming from?

What has been the main context of my replies thus far? It was you who claimed that "... any well-seasoned hobbyist is well aware of the multitude of approaches to sound reproduction and accepts them as revelatory or rejects them out right," obviously implying you're among them, and with regard to one of the primary subjects of this thread (i.e.: outboard active config.) I can assure you it's not any but rather the minority of the "well-seasoned hobbyists" that are well-versed here; any outright rejection of this approach, with the primary contention being DSP or not, will hardly be based on thorough experience in this field for any but the very few - contrary to what you not only suggested but stated. What's your experience in this field?

what’s most important is the quality of the DSP unit itself, not whether it adds an additional A/D conversion step at the input side.

@phusis

I (largely) agree with you on this subject. I’ve auditioned high-end active setups and found that they sounded wonderful.

A conundrum and bottleneck of sorts is the DSP unit. As you pointed out, quality is important. Relatively few choices exist, and most come from the pro world (which I don’t consider a disqualifier in and of itself; indeed, folks who do audio for a living have long since solved problems that leave seasoned Audiophiles drowning in a glass of water - especially in the digital realm. But I digress).

A DSP / crossover unit does add an AD/DA conversion, usually whether it’s needed or not. In fairness, the benefits of DSP largely outweigh whatever sound degradation may happen as a result of that conversion.

A DSP unit needs to have the appropriate IO combination for your project. For instance, a dbx venu360, which is a 3x6 unit, works well controlling a pair of 3-way speakers, but has no additional outputs in case you wish to add subs later.

Also, most DSP units support rates up to 24/96 or 48/96, so if DSD is your thing the DSP unit will convert and resample it.

Notwithstanding the above, active / DSP speakers sound wonderful. I would definitely recommend anyone serious about gear audition them.

They look nice. I would like to hear them. I wonder about the woofer quality as it always seems questionable with Klispch but I am just guessing. 

@devinplombier wrote:

I (largely) agree with you on this subject. I’ve auditioned high-end active setups and found that they sounded wonderful.

A conundrum and bottleneck of sorts is the DSP unit. As you pointed out, quality is important. Relatively few choices exist, and most come from the pro world (which I don’t consider a disqualifier in and of itself; indeed, folks who do audio for a living have long since solved problems that leave seasoned Audiophiles drowning in a glass of water - especially in the digital realm. But I digress).

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, a DSP unit of lesser quality can be a bottleneck itself, but putting it into perspective you could argue whether it’s an issue of equal, relative importance next to passive crossovers and them being a bottleneck both due to their placement in the chain, as well as the quality (or lack thereof) and complexity of the passive crossovers themselves.

It’s not only about passive vs. active crossover (electronic/analogue or DSP) in an isolated sense, but also what the latter facilitates with multiple, independently loaded amps that are freed of running a full-range signal, and which gives active a further advantage. Not to mention making better use of a given amp’s potential in an active context when it’s presented with an oftentimes significantly easier load. Speaking of which: I suspect many of the larger, ultra expensive and passively configured speakers (like Wilson Audio and others) require overbuilt amps costing a downright fortune not so much due to added speaker transparency, but in particular because they’re an extremely difficult load that’s in need of monster amps to have them come alive and maintain decent control. Actively you could "get away" with much less, and still come out better in the end.

And yes, not many quality DSP units are readily available, at least not that I’m aware of, and the ones I’d recommend are mostly from the pro sector. It’s makes for fewer choices, but if they’re to be had locally then many more options mayn’t be necessary insofar they can accommodate the requirements.

A DSP / crossover unit does add an AD/DA conversion, usually whether it’s needed or not. In fairness, the benefits of DSP largely outweigh whatever sound degradation may happen as a result of that conversion.

It’s certainly a matter of seeing the forest for trees here, yes.

A DSP unit needs to have the appropriate IO combination for your project. For instance, a dbx venu360, which is a 3x6 unit, works well controlling a pair of 3-way speakers, but has no additional outputs in case you wish to add subs later.

True. Although DSP’s with 8 output channels are fairly common and which should accommodate most speaker designs, but 5-way designs might face issues with DSP availability.

Also, most DSP units support rates up to 24/96 or 48/96, so if DSD is your thing the DSP unit will convert and resample it.

Correct, and then it’s up to each to decide whether that’s an acceptable compromise or not - not least given the potential gains more broadly speaking with active config. I’m amazed by the potential of a lossless PCM 16/44.1kHz signal with a quality recording and excellent front-end + active speaker setup, not least seeing the outcome of remastered high-res versions very often leaving a lot to be desired. Truth be told I don’t really care that much about high-res, certainly not as a necessary quality marker in itself in every case, but I’m aware many may disagree on this.

Notwithstanding the above, active / DSP speakers sound wonderful. I would definitely recommend anyone serious about gear audition them.

Indeed, but it’s not easy to persuade people into giving outboard active a fair shot, and I can see why in many cases. It’s tempting to tell them instead go experimenting with a secondary setup with more limited means, but really it’s the more all-out approach over an existing main system that will show the true mettle of outboard active config., and the positive experiences that need to be exposed here.

Found an old video about the Tractrix technology from Klipsch but in the comments down in that video , there was a concerning post says that Tractrix horn sound like regular speakers , i hope Klipsch didn’t ruin there flagship speaker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3Ch_tthLOc

The Klipschorn uses an exponential horn. Tractrix "De-Balls" the horn sound making the horn speaker sound more like a conventional speaker. People who like more of an "in your face" horn sound prefer exponential horns and people who prefer more of a "wave guide" type horn like tractrix. I have owned countless Klipsch speaker lines over the years both professional Klipsch speakers, Reference lines, Heritage lines including LaScalla, Klipschorns and I prefer exponential. If you like a horn to sound like a horn then exponential does the job best and if you prefer a more conventional sound you may as well get away from horns altogether and go with a Kef speaker in my opinion.

@saeed79 Its not only the horn design that affects sound quality. My early 1980's Klipschorns came with the K401 horn, a cast iron exponential horn. That thing rang like a bell when you knocked on it, damping these horns was the common 'fix'. So I tried various materials, amounts and placement of those materials, nothing worked to my satisfaction, nothing close to natural timbre. Point is the material horn made of also important, I'll posit any metal or plastic horn ain't gonna do it.  And yes, the original design with that horn and placement of drivers made for an in your face listening experience, so much so that I couldn't live with them in stock configuration. It took all new drivers, placement of those drivers (at least physical time alignment) , Volti tracktrix horn, reworking of crossover to get these speakers to generate a proper sound field with natural timbre. Haven't heard the latest Klipschorns but what I observe they seem to be on the right path. As for outboard dsp unit, obviously you can get the speaker to measure better with dsp, but there has to be an inherent cost in that the dsp unit will color/voice the speaker to some extent. I only like SET tube amps with my Klipschorns, and the rest of system is specifically chosen for my preferred presentation, any dsp unit will upset that equation. And this will remain true for present iteration of these speakers, some may continue to prefer to alter presentation via rest of system, others may not care or notice the voicing/coloration/presentation of this dsp unit.

Klipsch has not used metal horns in these models for many years now, but proper damping of these horns could be easily accomplished eliminating the "ringing" that they were known for. This new Lascala has a somewhat newly designed doghouse, now using a 12 inch driver. Always, MrD.

It appears Klipsch is mimicking the same type of bass loading with the new La Scala AL6 that they're using in the actively configured Jubilee version that saw the light a day a few years ago, with the goal to squeeze out some extra extension from a similarly sized package. Meaning, not only the front wave of the slottet, hidden woofer firing backwards but also its ported back wave is horn-loaded. The older La Scala's like all the Khorns are horn-loading a sealed woofer, which is the normal approach of front loaded horns, but with Klipsch's recent take on acoustically amplifying the whole of a ported bass system it's likely to result in a different bass imprinting compared to earlier iterations. Fortunately the horn acts as a low-pass filter, so any port noise should be filtered away. Technically speaking the porting of the woofer inside should minimize cone movement at the local bass tune here, so that's also something to consider. 

@mrdecibel wrote:

horn loading a sealed woofer? I do not understand. My AR 3a pair have a sealed woofer system. My best, MrD.

The 15" woofer in your La Scala’s is placed in a sealed chamber from where the front wave of the woofer cone fires into a slot (i.e.: a compression) and then the wave shoots into the back wall divider section and continues through the expanding horn to either side. That is to say: the front wave of the 15" woofer is the only thing loading the horn, whereas the backside of the cone looks into the sealed chamber and is therefore not exploited. Classic front loaded horn approach. 

The 12" woofer in the AL6 La Scala’s on the other hand sits in a ported chamber, and so not only the front wave of this woofer (which also fires through a slot) is loading the horn, but as well the back wave of the cone that releases its energy through 2 ports. That’s the same trick they’re using on the few years old, domestic version of the Jubilee’s. 

I’ve seen a version of the La Scala’s (likely a DIY variation) that is ported in addition to its horn-loading, but those ports were visible on the front side and so not firing into the horn itself. 

@phusis , yeah, gummies do that to me sometimes, as I know better with these designs, believe me, and which is why I deleted that post. Thank you for the explanation! My best, MrD.