....possibly hyperbole but Hi-Fi News in the UK raving about the Diavlet D-Premier amplifer.
Apparently it has patented a new hybrid of Class A and Class D technology. It sounds very interesting, looks unique and would appear to be a must hear for those who are interested in high quality servers where apparently it excels-although I'd be interested to hear what it can do with any source.
Pretty expensive I believe at £12000 or approx $18000.
It looks very interesting and it's not every review you read where you really want to hear the thing.....
Here's their website, quite a lot of info on there if you browse about. http://www.devialet.com/
Shazam, I keep forgetting about it. I would assume that were it any good, we would see more feedback. I was really put off when all I could find at CES was a static display.
I would also hope that we can hear it at the RMAF, but I have not heard of it being at any of the recent regional shows.
This amp seems to be an enigma. Until I hear it or someone I trust who has heard it, I wonder about all the hoopla. I just bought the B.M.C. M1 monoblocks based on many trusted favorable comments about them.
In no way is the D-Premiere a flash in the pan. I am curious who might have heard it and could be anything less than impressed. It is a performer in all areas in which it offers function. Additionally, I am not sure when or where anyone could have auditioned the Devialet given I was demonstrated, as you noted, in a limited fashion to the public and we were the first to receive and show it at Digital Ear. Again, I would think anyone curious or interested would highly benefit from a real and in person demonstration. That would put the nay-Sayers to rest. As always, I offer our showroom in case you are nearby. www.digitalear.com for more info.
All this discussion is off the mark. How does this thing sound? I saw it at CES, but it was not in use. I have heard some comments that some who have heard it were not impressed. Had it not been so positively reviewed, I doubt it would be discussed anywhere. Maybe it was a flash in the pan.
ARC has been doing digital amps for years . There still not even close to there tube gear . Anyone think about putting a digital amp on the moon , good place for it .
Doesn't it all depend ... on ... lots of things, always?
It goes against my instincts and experience to assume though that there is only one way (tubes) to make tasty audio soup and do the harmonic balance plus all the rest well.
After all, we sent men to the moon years ago. Surely engineers know how to properly apply transistors in SS amplifiers by now as well, especially in the digital age (whoops I used the D word), for those who seek good sound via transistors and not tubes.
Yes, you'd think, but guess what? There is not a lot of engineering talent being applied to the field right now. We've not been to the moon in a long time :)- back then they certainly *did not* know how...
This is right up there with the DREI poster or whatever that was. Is something going on in Western Europe that they want to advertise all this crap on Audiogon Forums?
Doesn't it all depend ... on ... lots of things, always?
It goes against my instincts and experience to assume though that there is only one way (tubes) to make tasty audio soup and do the harmonic balance plus all the rest well.
After all, we sent men to the moon years ago. Surely engineers know how to properly apply transistors in SS amplifiers by now as well, especially in the digital age (whoops I used the D word), for those who seek good sound via transistors and not tubes.
Let's just take a look at that model for a moment- the idea is that the amplifier is a 'voltage source' which is audio engineering shorthand for saying that it can make the same voltage into any load.
This is great if the speaker is designed for that response in an amplifier, and many are. However, the way the human ear hears is a little different from what is on paper. What I mean by that is that the ear perceives amplifier distortion as a tonal coloration.
The reason that is important is thus: In order for an amplifier to double power as impedance is halved (IOW to have a constant voltage characteristic) it has to have transistors in it. Now any transistor has a non-linear capacitive aspect in its junctions (varactor diodes take advantage of this to tune radios). The more current you put through the device the more this is magnified. Usually loop feedback is used to linearize the amplifier, and is enough that this quality of capacitance is taken into account.
The human ear uses the 5th, 7th and 9th harmonics to determine how loud a sound is. When loop feedback is used, these harmonics become artificially enhanced. This causes the amplifier to sound bright and 'shouty'.
Now this is variable with transistor amplifiers; a lot depends on the goal of the designer! But if they focused on making the constant voltage thing work without also paying attention to how our ears work, well then
"The fact that an amplifier may or may not 'double down' really says nothing about its sound."
That depends.
It does not define the sound however it can help deliver the best results especially in teh low end in practice with many speakers with difficult loads (more the norm) that are common out there today.
It is not a prime consideration though for those speaker designs that break that mold and present a more balanced load top to bottom and are also inherently more tube amp friendly.
Give it about a week, maybe a month. Things will come full circle and some well made, class AB amp will be at the top, again. How many brass rings are on this merry-go-round?
YEs that is unusual for Class D amps but not so much for integrateds, and is something I might be wary of for my main rig.
Come to think of it, I am not aware of any Class D integrated, digital or not, that "doubles down".
I know its a challenge to use massive power supplies in an integrated but I would think Class D amps might make it more viable, unless perhaps RF interference is an issue as well as EM perhaps?
I suppose you could have a digital pre-amp with a digital out to digital in on a separate CLass D amp. Not sure I know of such a product currently though.
Mapman, the NAD digital amp seems peculiar, in that unlike most ss, switching, or digital amps, and more like most tube amps, it doesn't appear as though it "doubles down".
Any product that can compete and better in some areas (accrding to hifinews magazine) the incredible $180,000 Behold system, will get my attention everyday of the week. I wish I could afford one right now, and if I could, I would without doubt try it out. And I would not care if it looked like my Aunt Lizzy's "muscle massager". It is the sound, and the sound only that matters. I do not stare at my audio equipement in lustfull manner. That is what I have a GF for.
Hi Everybody. I am just coming back from CES and spent a serious amount of time listening to the Devialet on Focal Scala Utopias as well as the a pair of Revel Salon2's. I can report back that all of the reviews and feedback are spot on. This is a game changer and presents amazing utility along with world class performance. Additionally , it can be custom configured to many settings. Needless to say, we are going to be displaying the D-Premiere from Devialet starting next week in our Tustin, California showroom. Feel free to drop by or call for a demonstration. -Digital Ear
Well, digital amps are fairly new and relatively unknown waters for many. It is a much different way of doing things (a mostly digital signal path throughout) than traditional systems where most of the signal path is analogue.
I think it is definitely a wave of the future. I'd be interested to hear some digital amps to get a feel for how well the technology performs at this point. Whether it is up to snuff yet or not though, I have no doubt that the time will come when it is and that it will open up some unique new horizons in audio sound reproduction along the way.
Mapman, thanks. I still think it's odd that an amp will take the analogue signal produced from a DSD recording and digitize it at 96khz in order to amplify it. That seems like a reduction. Additionally, many of us remember from the days of audio cassettes, that recordings of recordings tend to degrade the sound quality.
I think it is a true digital amp meaning that a digital rather than analog signal is processed internally by the amp section to then drive the speakers.
For that to happen, any analog signals input must first be converted to digital internally.
The combo of being a true digital amp with using a hybrid Class A and Class D amp section where the Class A apparently drives the high frequencies would seem to be a very innovative approach that I would like to hear. A sophisticated digital filtering and analog cross over circuit would be needed internally as well to pull this off I would think.
Maybe I do not remember correctly however, I seem to recall that this amp converts to digital what comes in the analogue inputs. That seems to be very strange. Can anyone explain why this is done?
It has a forward looking, unique design and is expensive.
It probably sounds very good also but I have not read anything yet that makes me believe it outperforms the competition on sound quality alone.
Also not sure about the value proposition.
It should appeal to those with the bucks that want something that performs well and is a little different.
I do not seeany details about the class A/D design and how that works, so I am suspicious, but I suspect it should appeal to Class A fans that are otherwise shy about anything with the word "digital" or "switching" in its design even if it turns out to be more about semantics than actual technical innovation.
Wait a few years and there will be more smaller gadgets to choose from with equally good sound and modern features for considerably less I will wager.
Ben_campbell, it sure has had no visibility in the US. Maybe it will be at CES or THE Show.
Casouza, I noticed that also and think there is some reason, it has so little visibility in the US. I have heard some rumbling that when compared with other amps with standard software, it proves unexceptional. I withhold judgment until I hear it.
Audiogon's highly rated hi-fi magazine Hi-Fi+ has just made the amp one of its products of the year.....describing it as one of the best amps available....
Ben Campbell: the references to Blu-ray, DVD-Audio and 24 bit sources are all over the review. EVERY test track listed is a high resolution file. The reviewer summarizes this again in the "Verdict" box. I have a feeling that the amount of time spent listening to high-resolution files "skewed" the review. This review could easily be re-written as a rave review of the Linn DS high resolution source, because in a system context no one in his right mind can differentiate the source's and the amp's contribution to the overall sound quality. In order to know for certain that the amp is REALLY that good, the reviewer should have auditioned alternative/benchmark sources and amps.
I heard this at the weekend and thought it was an extremely good amplifier - close to remarkable. I was auditioning it with Magico V3 and was very impressed and moved by the music.
Casouza where does the reviewer say that? I think he was suggesting you don't get the best if you use the analogue inputs-I think he says it sounds very good with CD/PCM-it is there in the review.
I read the review as a technical endorsement of a new technology and more importantly, a rave review of high-resolution discs / files. The reviewer states that the amp's sonic performance is nothing to write home about when playing regular PCM CDs, which unfortunately rules it out for me.
I think this reviewer should be shot- we have all heard this type of thing before and for anyone who has been in this hobby for a decade or more this is getting old!
However- I do feel like the technology here is interesting, at the moment. At the same time- digital changes too quickly and is too imbedded into this unit for it to be a sound investment. Ill buy this on ebay in 2018 for $900 and check it out when everyone else is listening to 32 bit or whatever material. This is not going to be like a Mac mc60 monoblock in 40 years. It will be worthless.
The other thing that I scratching my head over is how the reviewer listened to a DVD-A at 24/192 through a digital input. Did I miss something or did I read that wrong?
See if people just read, you know take their time and read or take the effort to actually understand what this was supposed to be about then we'd all be better off.
I don't cynicism, I don't mind doubt but actually dealing with the review and the details on the website would be the basis for saying-I don't fancy this because of a, b or c.
Instead we got bathroom scales and a cheap Class D or was it Class A debate.
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