Network Switches

@jnorris2005, I’m not sure if you read my previous post before submitting your post just above. But the risetimes, falltimes, noise characteristics, and distortion characteristics of the signal received by the audio component from the network switch or router that is immediately upstream of that component are almost exclusively a function of the network switch or router that is immediately upstream of that component. The "hundreds of regular old switches" you referred to have nothing to do with those characteristics.

Also, the explanation I stated has nothing to do with "mangled bits." For example, differences in risetimes and falltimes do not constitute "mangling," or lack thereof.  They are just differences, that may or may not have different effects on downstream circuitry.

As I said in the first paragraph of my post:

... it is very conceivable to me that a network switch can make a difference sonically. Not because it affects the accuracy with which 1s and 0s are received; not because it affects the timing with which those bits are received; and probably not because of most of the reasons that are likely to be offered in the marketing literature of makers of audiophile-oriented switches.

Regards,
-- Al

You do realize that the signal from Tidal or Qobuz has passed through hundreds of regular old switches on its way to your router.  To think that a local switch will be able to reassemble the seemingly mangled bits into a once-again pure whole is somewhat laughable.  The claim on the SOtM website is that "your network audio system will be able to perform with more realistic textures, wider sound stage and explosive dynamics without losing the detail of the entire range".  Indeed!
If you want to spend multiple thousands of dollars because you like the looks of the device, I get it.  But don't tell me it sounds better.

I went with the standard SOTM Switch due to finances.  I would love the new Innuos reclocker, but it is simply out of my budget ☹️

+1, @grannyring

Well said. Even though we have come a long way in last 4-5 years, we are still finding ways to improve the digital streaming experience. I get a good laugh from folks who can’t seem to think beyond 1’s and 0’s and bits are bits analogy. 

I am also considering the SoTM switch, did you go with base switch or the one with the internal clock? On another note, are you going to consider Phoenix USB reclocker for your Zenith MK3? 

As someone having extensive experience in digital (and analog) design, although not for audio, it is very conceivable to me that a network switch can make a difference sonically. Not because it affects the accuracy with which 1s and 0s are received; not because it affects the timing with which those bits are received; and probably not because of most of the reasons that are likely to be offered in the marketing literature of makers of audiophile-oriented switches.

The likely reason relates to differences in waveform characteristics such as signal risetimes and falltimes (i.e., the amount of time it takes for the signal to transition from its lower voltage state to its higher voltage state and vice versa); differences in noise that may be riding on the signal; and differences in distortion of the waveform that may be present. In other words, things that affect the spectral composition of the waveform.

Those differences in waveform characteristics in turn may, IMO, affect the degree to which some of the RF energy present in the signal may bypass, i.e., may find its way around, the ethernet interface circuitry in the receiving component and affect circuitry that is further downstream. Perhaps affecting timing jitter at the point of D/A conversion, and perhaps affecting analog circuitry further downstream via effects such as intermodulation or AM demodulation.

One thing that became abundantly clear to me in my experience as an electrical engineer is that signals and noise don’t necessarily just affect or entirely follow only their intended pathway. And the waveform and noise characteristics of the signal that enters a circuit can affect the degree to which RF energy present in that signal may find its way via unintended pathways to unintended circuit points "downstream" of the intended circuit. "Unintended pathways" may include things like grounds within the receiving device, parasitic capacitances, power supply circuitry, or even radiation through the air within the component.

For example, in the following thread ...

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/bricasti-m1-dac-vs-ps-audio-direct-stream-dac?page=9

... two members reported that inserting an inexpensive Netgear switch between their router and the ethernet interface in their audio system resulted in significant sonic improvement. One of those members, whose system is of exceptionally high calibre, was extremely skeptical initially, but ended up saying "I can’t believe it."

None of this is to say, though, that a given switch will provide benefits that are consistent from system to system, or that there will necessarily be much if any correlation between the cost of a switch and the benefits it may provide.

Regards,
-- Al

I have the SOTM Switch. Very nice sound quality improvement. My son is an IT network tech and security expert. He also heard the improvement. He is open minded and while he does not understand how or why, he knows what he heard.

I also power the SOTM Switch with a good LPS. The ethernet cable used is also important. Everything matters in our digital audio front ends. Everything folks. We are still learning more as this is a relatively young technology. We don’t have all the answers or understandings so there is much room for learning and experiencing if one’s mind is open. The earth is still flat in relation to our current knowledge on this topic and the future is exciting. 

@jnorris2005 Thank you for adding some much needed perspective to this discussion. I too have worked in the IT industry for the last 20 years and the idea of better sounding network switches and ethernet cables is laughable at best.

I’m curious about these “audio switches”.  I’ve been using Ubiquiti and Cisco Meraki for the last several years with success.  I have found that fiber can sound better, most likely because of isolation.

I question some of the claims, but I’ve also learned that digital can be sensitive at the source/transport.  I look forward to more feedback from all of you and will probably try a few of these myself.  The SOtM and Melco are on my radar.

No, I have not, nor will I ever.  Having been a network technician for over 30 years I know that a network switch's job is to faithfully receive packets and transmit them to their intended target.  If it doesn't do that it will be replaced as defective.  Implying that these devices can color audio signals is patently ridiculous, but I knew at some point some one would try it and some one would buy it.

Jnorris2005 and others have obviously not heard a audiophile switch in your system.

To buffer or not to buffer is the real question. If the signal path is being buffered then all that matters is did the 1's and 0's arrive or not !

I have the EtherRegen on order from UpTone.  I’ll be in the first batch delivered, and can comment hopefully in a few weeks.  

A WiFi router usually has a switch built in.  The router interfaces with the service providers network and usually doles out IP addresses to the connected devices on the home network.  An audiophile switch connects into one of the ports of the WiFi router and expands the network with higher quality ethernet ports.  Of course, the connection to the service providers network, and on to the streaming service, will always be through the standard ethernet port on the WiFi router.  That being said, the whole concept of an "audiophile" network switch is questionable at best.

Attended a High End Audiophile event in the weekend here in Copenhagen, where one of the vendors had the AQ SWITCH SE in all his 3 systems (a 15K €, 30K € and 60k € system (speakers, amp, streamer, dac, power plant)). 

I must admit I do not get, if a switch replaces a wifi router or it connects to a wifi router. 

I would first want to upgrade the power supplies and swap low EMF nu-blu LEDs.

+1 @david_ten

Appreciate intro to new class of device to consider from audio perspective.
Peace.

I have the Netgear nighthawk stealth fighter shaped switch....heavy metal

Here is another one, AQ-SWITCH SE Audiophile High-End Network Switch from AQVOX. 
Dave Clark did a review on the switch with external PSU here: 

https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/the-aqvox-se-switch/

Audio Bacon / Jay Luong has a brief overview of the upcoming Melco S100 Switch here:

https://audiobacon.net/2019/10/23/melcos-new-audio-specific-s100-data-switch/