Need advice about upgrading speakers ( it might be the last one i own).
Need some friendly advice or recommendations about a major upgrade in speakers. I am looking to buy used to stretch my dollar
I currently own a pair of Golden Ear Technology model 7's speaker. They are 3 years old and retail for $1395.. They can sound very good in my set-up and are accurate, but also are a bit edgy on top, and also don't convey the feeling or emotion of real music. Without getting into the definition of "real music",or the ambiguous terms euphonic vs real, or warm versus analytical, just say I would like to acquire a better sounding speaker. I play a fair amount of classic rock, and rock/jazz fusion and classical symphonic is getting a lot of play time recently.
So far, I have considered:
Revel Concerta F-206 ( retail $3500)
Choral 826W ( $3500);
PBS Imagine T-2 ( $3500 )
Tannoy XT-8F ( $2600 retail).
Vienna Acoustics Baby Beethoven ( $4500 retail ?)
Audio Physic Tempo 25 ( $6995?) ( not the later 'plus" version)
Audio Physic Scorpio retail $6500 )
Audio Physic Sitara 25 ($4995 retail);
ProAC D-25 (retail ??)
Audio Physic Virgo II ( $5495 retail )
I have heard the Tannoy and Revel and AP Virgo II. The Revel and Tannoy sounded very good , but the Revel has the lead. I have heard other Vienna Acoustic speakers and was not overly impressed The AP Tempo Plus is also in serious consideration. For the record, I am looking a smoother, and more musical speaker than the GET 7's
Magneplanars are too problematic in placemen;, therefore, I have almost eliminated them from consideration.
@jrosemd It seems as if you heard the $10k Montis at a real disadvantage; probably with a poor setup and maybe supporting equipment mismatch too - synergy is everything. The Magnolia near me plays them typically with McIntosh tubes. While I'm not a fan of that pairing, with solid state amplification by McIntosh, that makes them sing. I've heard the MMGs several times and they are no where near the Montis; nice but not in the same ball park.
Please, if they are selling new pairs of Montis for $4k, please let us know where as it sounds as if a few of us are interested in that steal of a deal.
Disclosure: I own ML Vantage speakers with a McIntosh MA6500 integrated. Montis would be nice step up for me.
jrosemd, don't be so quick to judge. First of all, if you know a reputable place selling brand new ML Montis pair for $4K, let me know. Secondly, as someone who just sold a pair of MMGs, with all the possible tweaks, I can tell you my almost 20 year old ML Aerius i is significantly better sounding than the MMGs.
bondmanp's analysis is spot on. Right components and correct set up are the keys for any speaker to perform. Owning an MMG, you probably already know that since I found them the most difficult speakers to optimize for placement, not mentioning their demands on the partnering amplifier.
jrosemd: Just a comment. I haven't heard the Montis, but I have heard many Martin Logan hybrids. Some, to me, sounded wonderful, others, not so much. I think setup and associated equipment have a lot to do with how these speakers sound. Some of the best Martin Logan sound I have heard were in owners' homes, with painstaking setup and very good to excellent electronics and wires. Also, FWIW, I never heard any speakers at BB/Magnolia that sounded good on demo, including Martin Logan and Vienna Acoustics. I seriously doubt any speakers there are set up properly, even if some of the employees might know what they are doing (and I highly doubt that). I would suggest a demo at a dealer who knows more about proper speaker setup and can demo them properly.
I just auditioned the Martin Logan Montis at Best Buy Magnolia. There's a reason why these $14,000 speakers are selling for $4,000: they're nothing special at all. I have a pair of Magnepan MMGs that run circles around speakers selling for 10 times their price. Contrary to your claim, placement is not difficult - just place them away from walls. If you want great sound at a huge bargain, go with the MMGs.
I would second corelli's suggestion...check out Eric Alexander's Tekton Design speakers. There may be better bang-for-the-buck but they'd likely to be stolen! See the Tekton Double Impact thead. I personally have been a stereo buff since high school (45yrs! Arrrgh!) and after 15yrs of Apogee Duetta Signatures (panel bipoles) I presently am enjoying Tekton Sigma OB's (open baffle cone driver bipoles) with a very interesting bass alignment....wonderful!
The Stirling specs are very misleading to say the least. Their detail retrieval is far superior to many competing brands.
They can play loud as well, maybe not rock concert volumes, but louder than I would care to listen. I think you should at least give this family of speakers (BBC) an audition. They end the merry-go-round for many audiophiles.
If space is an issue check out what "giantsalami" did as posted on the Double Impact thread. Thought this was an imaginative way to work in a small space.
To corelli, i checked out the Tekton "Double Impact" speakers. Unfortunately they are to big for my space and too heavy too move around. However, they recently released several new models, one being the "IMPACT" also the Enzo. The Impact seems more manageable in size and also looks better especially in Red gloss. Thanks, S.J.
Sunnyjim, I haven't heard the Von Schweikert Vr-22 but at that price, I'd give them a listen. At the same price, you can add the Clearwave Duet 6 monitors as well. I have them and am quite fond of them. All I can say is to listen to as many as you can before deciding.
To helomech I checked out a few reviews of the Spendor LS3/6. and also their website. They have a published high-end spec to 17,000HZ. That is no better than a Large Advent or Dynaco A-25. In addition, some of the reviews were problematic about playing them at high volume, and losing accuracy. Actually, the Spendor SB88 reviewed better ( are they still current?? )
To Nonoise (who recommended the Prana 5090), the Von Schweikert VR-22 has received excellent reviews. It is a two way floor stander that sells factory direct for $2895. VSA offers a 90 day home trial. Does any one either own them or heard them at a friend's house?? This may become the dark horse in the quest.
To those who recommended Sonus Faber Elipse SE and 2 other models, there is a pair of SF's Cremona on AG. (They are not the "M" model) I believe they sell for $3600. Beautiful speaker, but they weigh approx. 85 lbs each. Thanks to all who have responded Your recommendation have been very helpful
most of these people are telling you Revel this or that and for them it worked but they probably can't afford a better speaker.
LOL
Not to detract from Focal and B&W, but to dis Revel as a low budget option in favor of Focal or B&W is absurd.
As 4425 and several others here have already said, The F206 is a great choice and F208 even better if you have the room and can find a nice used pair. You've heard them and liked them.....I'd say look no further. You will spend lots of time and headache trying to exceed the F206 or F208 within your budget.
Well it seems most response denote their price point and all I can say is that there is certainly quality to every price point and most of these people are telling you Revel this or that and for them it worked but they probably can't afford a better speaker.
What is your budget? You ask a question without details leaves everyone guessing.
my two cents: Focal & B&W are simply where it is at. Spendor (D7 & D9) are quite special, but you need Money for all three! I am not talking that cheap product you can get at your box stores. The wife loves Focal and most of our listeners are blown away. The clarity and precision of the music is amazing.
I wouldnt buy anything without listening to them first!
I've been an audio professional since the early 1970s, and tend to focus my career in the performance area. I am the technical director for a local professional orchestra to keep an active relationship with live music. I've always faced the dilemma to determine the "best speakers" for a specific system. Since over 60% of what you hear is reflections and not "the" speaker - that has become my starting point. Before the emotions and hormones kick in - get a realistic grip on your budget. Then focus on application - the type and desired volume of your preferred performance. Tailor that to practical realism (wife acceptance factor, neighbors, etc.). Then you can develop a plan and research toward fulfillment. People always ask me and I have B&W Matrix 2, McIntosh electronics, and a tuned room. But that's just me and it took 27 years to get there! A lot of people enjoy daily all the speakers that have been mentioned. Just remember - it should be a balanced that includes the environment. Good luck.
Hi Sunnyjim, I am not sure what your budget is. It seems like you are moving up from speakers that are in the $1,500 range. The speakers you are looking at retail on the high end at round 7k - so if that's your ceiling and you are looking at a used market then you should be looking at speakers that retail 10k+. You also want to try to get speakers that cover as much of the frequency response as possible, this is not a guarantee for the best sound for you, but narrows your choices down to get the best value. That said, Sonus Faber Cremonas very versatile, musical- originals the best over the M's DeVore particularly Silverbacks - rarely come up on used market, best frequency response range. might want to consider Eaglestoworks Nines. I hope this helps Good Luck
I found a used pair of Revel F208's for around 2800. They have quite a bit more presence than the F206's and you can get pristine used ones if you wait around a little, which you're doing anyway.
Used speakers are a good deal. If all the speakers work, they generally sound like new.
Built the Linkwitz LX521 and it WILL be the last loudspeaker you will ever want to own. It murders everything else listed here. The whole project will probably run you about $4000. If you don't have access to a wood shop, you can buy a pre-cut cabinet kit from Madisound. And even if you don't have the ability to assemble it, you can easily have a local cabinet maker assemble it for a reasonable amount.
Look for the Linkwitz discussion forum and ask around to find someone in your area who has a set for you to hear. Or just take my word for it. Read up on it around the Internet. It's the equal of speaker systems in the $50k to $100k range.
I think the Revel Performa 3 F206 is the best choice. I have listened to all the Revels in their line of floor standing speakers and just bought their Revel Performa 3 F208's and a C208 for my center. They are an outstanding value. A bit of shopping and you can likely find a deal on them.
sunnyjim, Just before I retired I got my final pair of speakers manufacturer-direct . You will hate yourself if you don't at least listen to Spatial Audio's Hologram M3 Turbo S with a 4 ohm impedance or his M3 Triode Master with 16 ohm impedance and better tweeter for tube amps . Return them if you don't love them . Mine are staying . Overall most satisfying speakers I've heard at any price . Made a mockery of my upgraded Klipsch RF 5's on all counts . They are even better for movie night than with music and that's saying something considering how fine music sounds through them .He makes higher priced speakers if you consider these too affordable . Check reviews , I wish you harmony and peace . Joe B
It's true that sometimes our friends know what's best for us.
The LS3/6 is about equivalent in size to the Harbeth SHL5, much larger than the LS3/5a, but I can understand your aversion to the overall look, they don't qualify as show pieces compared to some other brands. Though, the key to their sound quality is the wide baffle and thin wall cabinets.
To Helomech: I did ask my best friend to recommend a wife. He did and 2 years later he married her. What can you do?? LOL
I will check the Stirling LS Broadcast 3/6. However, I never was a big fan of the famous amd original lunch box size speaker the LS 3/5 A or any of its knockoffs made by Harbeth, Spendor, KEF, etc.
Thanks again to all members who responded since may last reply. S.J
SJ - I have Vandersteens and think they sound like music. Call John Rutan at AudioConnection in New Jersey.... He is very knowledgeable, sells everything and is always anxious to share info.
SuunyJim, I can't recall if I've ever been told I'm outstanding so I'll wear it as long as I can. 😜 On an aside, I checked out the price and noticed that it's gone up about $1K so that puts it close to the limits you placed. Anyway, Elliot is great to talk to and he happens to be in Studio City which is quite a ways closer than Ventura. Either way you go, Elliot is a great resource.
Devore O/93's are the best speaker I've heard at anywhere near it's price. Based on what your initial post states, there are few speakers that provide as much emotion as these do. They do everything right and play every kind of music you can throw at them. They are not as well known as they brands you have in the running, but are better in every way if you want "real music" coming out of your speakers. They have been runner up in Stereophile products of the year for 2 years in a row going up against cost no object speakers.
sunnyjim, you may have checked a different speaker. The Janszen models are hybrids with electrostatic mid-tweeters and dynamic woofers. Check their site at the link I provided.
And while not frequent, used ones have turned up a few times.
I've come to the conclusion that asking others for speaker advice is somewhat like asking others to recommend a wife.
There's a mind boggling number of brands out there and all have their fan boys.
But what the hell, I'll throw my recommendation in the pot and suggest you listen to some stand-mount British monitors like the Stirling Broadcast LS3/6. I've heard these and the Revel F206 and the Stirlings had superior tone, midrange and imaging.
To Pryso, I have considered Janszen, but felt both models were too expensive. I will check again on AG. Supposedly, their ribbon tweeter has all the benefits of electrostatics.
To escrtitorjuan: Thanks for the recommendation, but they are too big and probably too expensive. Also, they would start a domestic nuclear event with the wife.
To 4425, Thanks for endorsement of the Revel F-206. They are leading the pack as of now
nonoise: You are astounding because you always come up with something off the wall......which is good. I never heard of the Prana brand. But I will definitely check them out their website site, and locate the "Acoustic Image" shop. Hopefully it is not all the way to Ventura....that is a 40 mile trip from the L.A. metro area.
Hi sj, two years ago I believe I solved my own quest for possibly my "last" speakers.
I've been in this hobby for decades and have owned more speaker models over that time than I ever counted. That was until I discovered the Duntech Princess which I had for 19 years! But they were large (6' tall and 180 lbs each) which meant difficult for a pending move. Besides I developed an itch for HE speakers so ventured off into that camp, along with SET amplification. But even with that magical mid-range I was not satisfied with the lack of bass extension and even upper bass body to much music as I was accustomed to with the Duntechs.
So after more searching I (re)discovered Janszen speakers and after a home audition bought a pair of their floor standers. They also offered a stand mounted model for less money (which is also very good) but "in for a penny, in for a pound". Since I bought mine they introduced a powered version with internal bi-amping. Bottom line is I love mine, and they elicit positive comments from anyone who visits, be they audio hobbyists or simply music lovers.
Trust yourself. The Revel F206 is an awesome speaker. Great looking, extremely well built and superb sonics. Economies of scale put this speaker's performance far beyond its price.
Rock is your genre of choice so you need speakers with oomph. I would take the Focals and PSB T2 off the list in that case. You really should look at used JBL synthesis array 1000 or s3900 or whatever you can afford. They do come up for sale on the used market regularly. Great for rock and absolutely terrific for symphonic pieces.
Another speaker you should consider is the Prana Fifty90. It is right in the middle, price wise, and every time I"ve heard it, the sound just pulled me in. If you're in the L,A, area, Elliot Midwood over at Acoustic Image lists them on his site. Every review loves them and if I had your money, I'd seriously consider them and at least audition them before buying anything else.
I understand if your budget doesn't allow, but the Elipsa SEs fit smaller rooms much easier than the Olympica III and probably even the Cremonas. There is a thread on audioafficianado.org about fitting in even smaller rooms.
You can get a $10 k Martin Logan Montis Loudspeaker for around $5k that will put to shame many speakers Double their cost and then some and with DSP, for the Bass totally seamless , and no speaker does the critical midrange better then a Electrostatic Loudspeaker.
Love my ProAc Studio 148 speakers that I got for just over $3000 USD. Unfortunately, they are discontinued. Fortunately, there is an upgraded replacement model coming out but it sounds like it will be more expensive.
Thank you to all who have responded so far. The Sonus Faber Elipsa speakers look too large and even used, beyond my budget. However, I need to check out on AG, the Cremona M and the Olympica 2 and 3, but I got a feeling they also may be beyond my budget....'
I will also check out the Proac models recommended on this thread.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
