If you think revel salon 2s are awesome speakers, go listen to the dynaudio c4 platinum and then your perception of what a good speaker sounds like will change. Dynaudio c4 demolished my revel salon 2s and then the Martin Logan renaissance squashed both of them.
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
Thanks whitecamaross for all your posting and trials. Any thoughts on which amp(s) you feel would sync well with JTR speakers (http://jtrspeakers.com/noesis-212htr.html)? The JTRs utilize BMS 4593he horn loaded compression drivers and are very efficient (101db). I also use JTR subs to supplement the bottom end. Thanks in advance. |
fsamb, I have never heard those speakers, but if I needed speakers, I would by them without hearing them, because they are designed like my Klipsch Epics, but look better in some ways. the 215's are huge and mind boggling. They must sound fantastic. My speakers, which are same setup and efficiency work great with 8 watt 300b set as well as 100 watt class AB and 40 watt class A. |
When we downsize to a single stereo setup, I'll need to decide between our Parasound JC 2 preamp with JC 1 monoblocks (800 watts @ 4Ω) or our Ayre KX-5 Twenty preamp with VX-5 twenty amp (350 watts @ 4Ω) to drive KEF Reference 107/2s (4Ω 90 dB sensitivity). Anyone compared the two setups? The JC 1s really brought the 107/2s to life, especially the LF extension. I could try the Ayre units with the 107/2s, but that's heavy lifting up to the second floor. db |
I have no experience with Ayre, but a local friend of mine has the pass labs 350.8 and ayre mxr twenty and did extensive A/B comparisons in his room and he preferred the pass labs with his rockport speakers. He said pass labs had more low end punch and more soundstage width. Long story short, he sold the ayre monos and kept his pass labs. I do not really care for ayre to be quite honest. I have not heard it but all the reports i have had from people who i know very well keep saying the same thing to me which is that they are way overpriced like Mark Levinson and they really arent outperforming everyone else like their price tag dictates. |
Ok guys, i have a couple of updates. I now am the proud owner of Sonus Faber IL Cremonese speakers and its insane how amazing this speaker truly is. If you remember correctly, i praised the martin logan rennaissance for being the best speaker i have ever heard until i heard these Sonus Faber. Having owned the sonus faber amati futura, olympica 3s, olympica 1s, i can honestly say that i was not impressed at all. I thought they sounded thin, lethargic, narrow soundstage and zero bottom end in my room. I was very nervous and skeptical about these because i had not been impressed before by sonus faber. That said, the minute i played these speakers, i knew it was something special. It is seriously leaps and bounds better than the logans. I want to say that now i am enjoying a massive soundstage that expands from parking lot to parking lot. Beautiful midrange and highs and a very accurate bottom end. I am currently running mark levinson 536 monos and audio research reference 6 as my front end. This coming weekend i will have my pass labs 350.8 back in my house and will analyze things again. Lastly, if you read my thread, you would know i have owned the plinius sa103 and sa100mk4 which i really liked. That said, the plinius sa103 sounded really amazing, but lacked bottom end. I have to believe it is the typical class a design and quite frankly that is the only complaint i have about this amp. i tried class a and class ab modes and nothing. The bass remained too gentle for my taste. Anyhow, i just pulled the trigger on a plinius sb301 mk2 amplifier and i expect it to be a damn good challenge for my x350.8. I think that amp has enough attributes to make it a dog fight. It is said that it has sledge hammer bass and massive dynamics so it will be interesting to see how it does against my x350.8. Things are going to get interesting again ! |
Whitecamaross, Great info. Please, when you done comparing Plnius with Pass on Sonus Faber, send detailed update. I had plinius SB301 several years ago and to me it had great bass and midrange but was not that dead quiet as the pass 250.8. Since your had both pass 250.8 and 350.8, what is the biggest difference between them?
Thank you for all your very valuable reports. |
hi Denon, keep in mind that the sb301 has 2 different versions. i bought the mk2 version which i heard is significantly better than the original sb301. Biggest difference between the 250.8 and 350.8 is of course the power reserves which puts you in a better position for the future with the 350.8. The 350.8 has more bass without a doubt. I would say that if you listen at low volume levels, you are not missing much by staying with the 250.8. If you live in a small apartment, etc i would say save your money and keep the 250.8. However, if you like upgrading constantly like i do and like to occasionally blast music, then you are a candidate for the 350.8. The sound is fairly similar on both, but the 350.8 is always going to have more market and will be easier to sell. It is an amp that you can use for 5 years and then sell it in a day. I have owned 350.5s and they sold in days after i listed them. It is one highly desired amplifier. As far as the biggest difference between the futuras and cremonese, they sound like 2 different speakers. They sound like they are not even made by the same company. Cremonese is the new sonus faber sound and the futuras is the old, laid back sonus faber sound. Cremonese sounds BIGGER than the martin logan renaissance and remember that those are HUGE panels on those electrostatics which should just tell you the kind of speaker that the cremonese are. I do not like anything from sonus faber other than their top 3 models: cremonese, lillium, aida. These share the best of the best design and technology and every other model just shares the aesthetics but the sound is thinner, lethargic, anemic, etc. |
Witecamaross, thanks much for a feedback on pass. Your comments are easy to understand and right to the point. No dealer has been explaining the difference between 250.8 and 350.8 that simple and well. The new Sonus Faber tradition line is using the same tweeter and midrange found in Cremonesse. So may be it is true what some people are saying that the new Tradition line is faster, more open and resolving. Please keep reporting. |
Yes, the new sonus faber tradition line should be killer to say the least. i am glad sonus faber went away from the whole "laid back" sound. I totally hated that sound and the soundstage was narrow as well without much low end punch. Most dealers want to make a sale and i get that. They need to make money and i respect that, but i am more of the type that does research and selects my next move very carefully and then report on what my findings are. I don’t make a dime from this thread at all and i don’t get compensation from the brands that i have praised here. As a matter of fact, sometimes i read reviews on certain magazines and i see the associated equipment that was used to present a review i realize that i have better and more reputable gear that i could use to do reviews myself. I would actually love to do that, but i am very blunt and without a filter and so if i receive a piece of equipment that i feel is terrible, i will make sure i say that because i can’t sugar coat things. I still have pass labs, simaudio and luxman and MAYBE Mark Levinson as the top dogs as far as refinement, finesse, detail, clarity, soundstage and precision. i call this tier group the "ferrari" group. As far as the "mustang 5.0" tier group, i would have krell, classe, bryston, belcanto, parasound halo, mcintosh. These would be those with plenty of horsepower, with punch, capable to drive anything, but do not necessarily have all the finesse and depth that the "ferrari" tier group has. The last tier group would be the "bang for the buck". These are amps that are great and do a lot of things really well. They have power, good detail and dynamics and are well rounded, but lack the extra detail, decay, layering and bass accuracy found in the first 2 groups. I would put emotiva, cary audio, ati, theta digital, nad, parasound classic, rotel. If you are looking for an amp to build a system upon, ALWAYS shoot for an amp that has more than the needed power when possible because this will lay the foundation of your system today and tomorrow. I say this to some of you who contact me asking for advice. Don’t skimp on amplification when possible. That said, just because an amplifier has 300 watts per channel does not mean it is better than one with 150 watts. Not all watts are created equal. REMEMBER THAT. If you are building a system, your order of priority in terms of what you need to buy and in which order should be as follows: 1. Speakers 2. Preamplifier 3. Source 4. Amplifier I could see why some of you would have the amplifier as #3 and the source as #4. I realized that sources are a huge part of this game. I learned this with the sonus faber cremonese more than ever before. You can’t purchase a pair of speakers that are 45k dollars and use an oppo 205 as your source or a sonos streamer or a laptop, etc. That is like buying a ferrari and buying cheap engine oil, cheap chinese tires and cheap air freshener. Really? If you buy a speaker that is up there in terms of value, you also need to look at your front end. You need to evaluate what other components need to go and replaced. Getting better speakers do not fix all your sound problems. The right equipment also needs to be thought out in order to make the entire experience that much more real. Anytime you switch speakers, that is just the beginning of what you are about to embark on. You now need to first identify if your amp can push them (see why i said to buy a quality amp from the get go is important?) and then buy your preamp according to the flavor that you seek. If you are looking for a musical tone then go with a tube preamp, etc, etc. That should be the thought process. |
just heard that Classe Audio closed their doors... If true, it would be disappointing but hardly surprising. The demise of the market for cdp's did them in I think. Their amps and preamps never caught on and they tried to go mostly-all-in with HT gear. I suspected at the time it was the beginning of the end. FWIW, Classe imo borrowed heavily from Steve McCormack on their amp designs. I still own a Classe CDP.5 I bought new shortly after it came out- it served me well until I went the route of an Aurender N100H and an AMR DP777. |
I recently demoed the Bryson 4b3 with B&W 802s. I found the amp detailed but not warm. Could be the speakers. Still sounds like solid state not my cup of tea. I think store should have paired it with sonus faber. Strange they paired Macintosh with sonus which made the sound have lack of top end air which B&Ws had a lot of. Anyone in this budget I much prefer Wilson Sasha speakers with Sim Audio gear. At least there was more warmth without lost of detail. |
whitecamaross, you may wish to re-state your opinion about all older SF speakers, unless that is you have heard them all! While I generally agree with you that SOME of the older models could sound a little recessed ( or laid back), there are many that were, and are, superb on all counts. A sample of this would be the great SFGH’s that I own and the well respected SF Extrema’s, among several others. Lumping all of the brands prior work into one bucket is not correct at all IMHO, and does a MAJOR disservice to the great work of Franco Serblin. Your new Il Cremonese is a good speaker, but they are certainly not the best to come out of Sonus Faber...not even close. |
That is an impressive list- ysound. I’ve owned the 28B3s 6 months now, soon after CES if I remembered correctly. Also forgot to include the BAT VK-655SE, it sit right along side the Lamm and Krell Solos. I still have the VK-655SE and the Solo 575 as well. Believed or not, I had at least 5 of the above mentioned amplifiers at one time doing A/B. Held on to the one I like most. Being the 28B3 dives the Magico Q5 really well and the Solo 575 and BAT for the Maestro. The Q5 doesn’t sounds good with the Krell or vice versa. |
Ok guys, i had a chance to listen to the Plinius SB301 MK2 versus Pass labs x350.8. My preamp is the audio research reference 6. here is the final results after quite a few hours of listening to music: Plinius SB301Mk2: Better and fuller bass. Midrange is bold, big and almost like a tube amp. The highs are more detailed than pass labs, but they do have a tad of graininess with some material. Pass Labs x350.8: Good bass, good midrange, awesome highs that were a tad laid back with my sonus fabers. They lacked the sparkle that the plinius had. The only advantage that i might see the pass labs have is at VERY LOUD volume levels because the sound is laid back so you don't really get ear fatigue. To me, this is a shocking exercise. I was looking to try an amp to bring a dog fight to my x350.8 and i expected the pass amp to win, but this wasn't the case. It actually sounded "muffled" and as if my sonus fabers had the treble turned down. In short, the steal of the century right now is the plinius sb301 mk2. I loved it so much that i am now going to be hunting a plinius sa reference and will bring an audio research tube amp as well. I am going to listing the plinius sb301mk2 and pass labs 350.8 for sale. I want to do another shootout between the plinius sa reference and the audio research 150se or gs150 amp. Again, I'm shocked, but this plinius sb301 has really given me the best price/performance ratio and i will already say that it is superior to the pass labs 250.8 (I've owned it) because my 350.8 is not able to beat it. |
That's quite interesting about the Plinius amp, I've been keeping an eye out for a pair of SA Ref myself, only seen 1 pair listed here for the last 18 months, which I did make an offer and the seller accepted, but he backed out at the last moment. So I'm still on the hunt for a pair. whitecamaross , do you remember us speaking over the phone last year about a pair of Dynaudio C1 Platinum I listed here. I remembered we delved into amplifiers as well. |
Yes I remember. It's a crazy journey what I've been through and now it looks like im headed back to tubes. I am actively looking for a pair of plinius sa reference amps but I heard it's being discontinued because the new amp is to be released at the end of the year. As bad as I want to try a tube amp, the cost of ownership sucks. I mean a replacement tube set for the 150se costs 1300!! That's nuts. |
thanks guys. I can honestly say that this hobby gets quite expensive, but many really great moments and smiles on my face make it all worth it. Right now, i am torn over the rogue audio apollo monos or audio research 150se. I am trying to go into a tube amp, but i am quite nervous. Tube amps are sometimes difficult to sell once you are done with them. |
Whitecamaross, 1) Your journey is quite informative. However, I wonder if you are running into compatibility issues changing both amps and speakers--particularly with your current SFs. Perhaps reacquire a pair of MartinLogan 15 or Monitor 300 IIs to have a reasonably neutral standard? 2) If you want neutral, inexpensive to buy and operate tube amps with lots current into low impedences, try Quicksilver V4s. |
hi, yes there is always is compatibility issues when you change out speakers and amps. Right now, i love my SF more than i loved my 15a martin logans. I can already say that pass labs does not sound better than plinius does with my sonus faber. I can vouch for the amazing sound that is heard with martin logans and pass labs. Right now, i am looking forward to try a tube amp, but i need to make the right choice before i jump the gun. I will most likely purchasing the arc 150se. |
Whitecamaross- you have an ARC Ref 6 and you are hesitant to try it with the Ref 150se that will inherently be a great match and your hesitation is based on spending $900 (not 1300) after 3000 hrs of listening? In the context of your other expenditures that's a head-scratcher. But forget all that for now-I would bet the ranch that whatever you are searching for with all these amp swaps could be solved/found with careful analysis of your room and speaker placement. Spend some money to save a lot more money; contact Jim Smith of Get Better Sound for a personal "fitting" of your room and room treatment and speaker placement. Hire someone else if you want. Or keep chasing the wrong squirrel if that's your preference. I don't mind-it's fun watching someone else spend a lot of money. |
Whitecamaross-how about posting a pic or two of your back-wall showing your speakers and the wall in between and then one further back from behind your listening chair? Re-reading your OP I see references to multi-channel and HT. Do you have a flat screen between your main speakers? Please tell me "no"! |
