My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
When i refer to the golden age i'm talking about the industry. SoCal was the hub of the industry and most manufactures were within several miles of each other, back then we would actually help each other. I was not part of Infinity but helped with their first Electrostatic speaker which debuted at a small audio store in South Pasadena, i also helped with the Infinity amp. As a young man i used to hand wind transformers for Bedini ,it paid off as later years i was allowed to mod one of their amps and install my faceplate.
I could go on forever but my point is we were involved with a hobby and industry we loved and for the most part we helped one another. Today everyone is an expert with little true knowledge, someone can be in this hobby for decades and really not know what to listen for. When David Wilson developed the Watt we spent hundreds of listening hours before production i learned so much during that time the Watt revealed things that other speakers could not, David said once that he could live with the Watt forever. The internet develops experts it's a by product.
Yeah I’m serious I’ve said it before but Wilson Audio is better with Darryl at the helm. This in response to the interview and the recent speaker incarnations, not to the previous post. I mean no disrespect to DAW, just think the company on a better path
and ps it wasn’t me who complained to WC. I just post my thoughts on that here
Let's hope so, you want your kids to do better than you.
But let's be fair David had a zero platform to stand on, working 24/7 7 days a week. Darryl has a solid platform and any tool to work with, nice advantage.
Respect for the xlf. The last speaker made my Dave Wilson. Wouldn’t it be something else if i end up selling it and all of a sudden this speaker appreciates in value because it’s the last work from Dave? Look at what happened to Porsche vehicles with their V8 non turbo engines...their price has skyrocketed now that they only make V8 or V6 twin turbos..
@kren: you aren’t disrespecting it. I can totally understand why you feel this way. Daryl is a fresh mind, new ideas, more tools, social media. These are things that older minds have a difficult time with. It’s no different than you and i are in our 60s or 70s - we won’t be able to keep up with technology then. Our brain won’t be able to absorb things quite as easily. The biggest hurdle for Wilson Audio has been the criticism and obviously the hate. That said, this comes with the territory. You can't please everyone.
One thing about the Wilson's is that father and son attend lot's of live events they know what live sound is. I met David at a GD event when i was building speakers for the Wall Of Sound he was intrigued by the stacking of speakers and the ability to get all of the sound from the stage to the audience. Do you think it was by chance that the Wham's and later speakers have the design they do? So much will go unwritten.
Thank You for sharing your DW story. The Wall Of Sound was a spectacle within Rock music's pantheon. I am certain that many Loudspeaker designers were inspired. Power amp designers as well.
And so we begin to ascend to the top. Here is a video from today. I highly recommend headphones because the second track will rattle your brain. Listen to the control and the room pressurizing on this track. I hope you all enjoy this one! Pay close attention to the 6:18 mark. Wear headphones if possible at this particular point. The room is fully pressurized and under massive control. Notice how the vocals and highs DO NOT get drowned out by the massive bass?
Guys - no music server or power conditioner either and yet the sound is quite impressive. I'm using a 10 year old MacBook to feed a signal to my msb DAC. Just imagine once i bring the music server on board and a new power conditioner?
Well, As i sit here listening to these tube monoblocks for the last 2 hours, i can certainly say that they EASILY best a bunch of solid state amps I've owned in different areas: Resolution Bass Engagement factor
I just wrapped up a 6 hour listening session. I don’t think I’ve done this in at least a year. No question, the new speaker cables are the best cables I’ve owned.
Just demoed the Alexx V with Dan Dagostino Momentum Monos and Nagra HD preamp. Magnificent soundstage and clarity. Nagra HD, priced at $68000, is the best preamp I have ever heard, not losing any clarity and details but also makes the sound more real and better. Momentum Monos are just powerful and sweet. Alexx V is amazing as well, though I really want to hear out if XLF sounds better. Jay you may not like the classic line, at $20000 level Gryphon is better. But the HD preamp, amp and DAC all price at $70000, which even Gryphon price can’t compare. If you have a chance to get a deal on those please try them!
Just like a $2000 amp can’t beat a $20000 amp, it’s very hard to find a $20000 preamp beating the $70000 preamp. I guess they dare to price it at $70000 for a reason. But you do need a very big pair of speakers like Alexx or bigger to reveal the true power of electronics at this level…
your new video is awesome. Looking forward to seeing the second and third tier of amps. Also wanna see the speaker tiers as well!!!
I like the clarity of sound in the last video with the tube mono blocks. I prefer it to the preceding video with the other new amps. Unfortunately, the recordings are different, so it is meaningless to say that one set of electronics has A or B characteristic, and the other has C or D characteristic.
Today, during part 2 of a 3 part video series i will go over the "mid fi" brands. What will these brands be? There will be shockwaves and also an interesting comment about a brand which i have been told did not want his new amps to be reviewed by me. Which one will it be? You will find out today at 1030 am ET. DONT MISS THIS ONE!
160s is so much better than the 160m... Remember guys, I’ve not finished my mid tier group list of amps and of course...the long awaited list of bottom of the list power amps I’ve owned. Which brands will land as the worst amp brands? You shall see 🙈
This tube amp pretty much trashes a long list of solid state amps I've owned. I don't even want to go into more details so i don't offend people who may have bought some of these solid state amps. This tube amp is FOR SURE tier 1 group. No it's not ARC so drop those ideas. I've never heard a tube amp sound this good. The only downfall is that they need time to open up and sound good but other than that i don't see any other issues.
Hi, In view of your vast experience with critical listening ability, please write a similar article on speakers that you have listened to thus far. I am especially interested in Paradigm Signature S8 (long been discontinued) and Paradigm Founder 120H and 100F. Further, want to know your views on:1. Concept 16.5 Integrated Amplifier (Vintage).[http://www.chrisinmotion.com/MyFavoriteReceivers.htmhttps://www.tapeheads.net/showthread.php?t=22381] 2. Rotel
RB-1582 MkII Thank you.
@mr139113: Not trying to dismiss what you are asking, but this thread is not really about the gear you have asked about. I also don't believe you follow my thread very closely (you have 2 posts total under your username) which leads me to believe that this is why you have not "picked up" on what i just stated above.
Tube Amps require patience and lots of Tube Rolling experimentation to get the best out of them. Almost NONE of them come with a decent selection from the factory....just whatever is currently in production and can be purchased in large quantity. Jay isnt patient enough to go thru that process/learning curve so probably best to stick with whats in his wheelhouse.... SS amps that can be purged shortly after acquiring them.
Regarding the Audio Research Ref 160S discussed just now, if you search WC’s videos you will find the video where he included it with Luxman 900u (or whatever it is called) and one other (I forget the third - perhaps SimAudio) as the three best power amps under $20k that he had owned to that point. I want to say the video was from about 6 months ago.
RIAA, I hope Jay does the tube rolling which would optimize the already superb sound we are hearing so far. Also, this would encourage him to put more time on great amps or anything else, and not just go through the rapid turnover. Rapid turnover is fine for mediocre stuff and for financial prudence.
Jay is probably doing the "secret teasing dance" for financial reasons (keep everyone coming back for more and getting more hits). Seems really ridiculous to me. I would tell everyone ASAP what I have....not tease them for weeks or months. I think you could build more excitement by telling us even before the components arrive what you are doing....."I just ordered this pair of mono blocks....they should be here in 3 weeks....cannot wait to see how good they are......stay tuned" Then when they arrive make a big fanfare......then burn them in for a little while and then show them in all their glory......then burn them in some more..... then try different cables and equipment to get the best sound. The teasing game seems juvenile.
Woof woof......he he. Jay will do what he wants, that is for sure.
@ricevs: When are you starting your own YouTube channel and do your video of tweaks and giant killers in the format you described i should follow above? Hell, I’ll subscribe to your channel if you do. This would give you less time to spend on this thread because the YouTube channel will keep you busy as hell shooting and editing content. Why not try that and let me know how it works out for you? Maybe that will help your finances since you'll have a way to market your tweaks? You'll make about $190 dollars a month from YouTube by loading 3 videos a week and editing about 4-5 hours a week. Try it - who knows.
Instead of addressing the issue, you go on the defensive.....by getting offensive. Also juvenile. Who’s barking orders now? I love you....You are beautiful....so is everyone. Have a great every second.....it is free!
Why do you do the teasing game?......please tell us......What do you and everyone else think of my suggestion?
Gee.. why can’t we just being decent and say: Jay, would love to know what are those tube amps! But saying something utterly ironic and unnecessary. Why do you think being hostile will make people do things you want? Really looking forward to seeing the worst of the amps, especially those charge for big $$$ and pretends to be hifi. I would guess McIntosh being one of them, but they don’t actually charge a huge amount comparing to a lot of other brands. Mark Levinson still charges a lot for their high-end tier.
same goes for the speakers. I heard Avalon and Rockport the other day and found them sound good but always missing something that the Wilson’s actually delivers. But this is just my opinion.
@ricevs You can politely provide your thoughts on how Jay may do things, but Jay will run this thread the way HE wants. It's really that simple. You can always change the channel if you don't like how things are being done on Jay's thread.
... Really looking forward to seeing the worst of the amps, especially those charge for big $$$ and pretends to be hifi. I would guess McIntosh being one of them ...
Really? I’ve heard some fantastic Mac amplifiers. They don’t happen to be to my taste, but I sure don’t think they are pretenders to hi-fi.
Which Mac models have you heard that led you to this guess, @logydoghan? Hopefully you've heard them in person rather than just relying on YouTube.
The best I have heard are their 2kw mono blocks and their C53 preamp. Granted I haven’t heard their new 901 model. They are not bad. But they can’t be compared to the Gryphon, Dan Dagostino, Spectral or sim audio. And again they are not that expensive to some of the brands mentioned above. They are good products but to claim legendary performance they need to do better than that. And I am talking about the solid state. They may do better in tubes but I haven’t owned many tube amps so can’t comment on that. But I do heard people prefer Audio Research than theirs.
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