My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
Hey all, happy holidays to everyone. A fair comparison between 2 products can only be, when the cables are the stock cables, or, all of the cables are the same. Cables ALL add their own sound (personalities ) into the system, just as an amplifier topology being used. Cables have not been addons for the longest time, but are COMPONENTS. So are amp stands. They significantly change, generally for the better, the characteristics of the sound of the amp sitting on it. Unless these parameters are met ( for the same reason a single recording would need to be played between the two ), a conclusive analysis cannot be determined. Just the way it is, ime. Anyway, I am looking forward to the Ulfs finding their way into the system. A highlighted recording I recommend for everyone, is one that will truly be " the one " to use, for evaluating anything in your system, as it goes with what I have always said : we have always been limited by the recordings we listen to. Anyway, the cd or digital download I speak of is : " Drums and Bells " (comparing sticks ), by the extraordinarily talented Tony Minasian. His other recordings are excellent as well, and 2 more releases are expected shortly. You can all thank me later, and I do not collect a commission off the sale of this. Be well, all. Always, MrD. |
grey9hound, I could have posted the Rossini William Tell Overture, last 3 min which is the famous Lone Ranger theme. But the Tchaikovsky Symphony is all encompassing, with every instrument of the orchestra on display, at all dynamic levels and tempos. Also, the passion of the conductor is remarkable, so even if the listener doesn't appreciate the music just by closing his eyes and listening, the conductor's passionate body language helps understanding. I didn't want to cherry pick isolated fragments for shock value, because this destroys the continuity of the whole piece. The piece is in 4 sections, with different moods. The first ends around 19 min, etc. Take it in small doses at a time, and it will grow on you. I can see how you might fall asleep after 2 min, but the experience is like a champion starting out with a few light punches, and devastating you later. |
You all ready for the comparison of boulder and gryphon? I can't stress it enough how important it is to at least use headphones. I was driving to the gym just now and played the comparison in my car and i preferred one set up and then I get out the car, put any headphones on and now i prefer the other set up. I am telling you all, it is crucial that you listen to this with good headphones. I also keep reminding you all to listen to the video at least 3 times. Don't be shocked if you change your mind on what you prefer each time you listen to it. The video will go live shortly and i hope you all enjoy it ! |
Boulder has more detail, showing up negatives and weaknesses of the recordings, imo. Gryphon rounds it all out a bit, similar to adding a clean and not too tubey tube stage. Why I recommended the recording I did above. This recording will tell you what you want to know. Not much else, recorded, will do this. |
My comments for YT. Posted before I read most comments on YT and none here on Agon. It is interesting to see that the Boulder sections are more brightly lit and the Gryphon sections the lighting is turned down some. The Boulder, for me, has more resolution, air, ambience, digs deeper, whereas the Gryphon is darker/warmer and seems to have less ambience and overall resolution; it seems to close down some from the giant image the Boulder throws. It will be very interesting to find out if the Gryphon is using the stock PCs or the AQ PCs. My guess is that it is on the stock PCs. Regardless, I'd have to live with both these systems for a while to definitively decide which one to keep because I don't think one system completely does better than the other. I do lean toward the Boulder for its bass control and bigger soundstage ambience and air and this is to be expected because of the mono blocks and significantly more available power. Jay, gotta say, this is by far for me your best ever video - excellent thought process in editing and putting the video together along with the direction and the descriptive text to let the viewer know exactly what is going on. BTW, I used a good set of ear buds and could easily hear all I described above - I listed multiple times and had fun doing so. Merry Christmas. |
fantastic effort jay. sounds phenomenal. @pokey77 you are absolultely spot on. thats what gyphon owners say.it has a slightly warmer,darker recessed presentation boulder has a slightly lit and forward presentation with more energy in the highs. boulder hands down wins not because its my personal preference., because you can always tune a boulder system with wamer cables like for example kubala sosna or transparent, but you cannot tune a gryphon system otherwise. you can tame the energy in the highs, but if in first place its dark or recessed you cannot get back the energy |
The Boulders are immensely more refined, on the guitar at the beginning of the first tune....I can hear more nuance and decay... The Mephisto gets broomed over as its sounds a bit midrange forward with much less ambiance and air. The Boulders sound more real also. And that is with normal powercords on the Boulder. Imagine with something like Audioquest Dragons....So, Boulder monos have hidden additional potential.( which is just crazy considering they are magnificent even now ) Those who say the matchup is not fair ( mono vs stereo). Sorry, I correct you , Mephisto is basically two « glued together » mono amps with two powercords feeding two separate power supply. So it’s monos vs monos in reality ! |
Why would anyone not mix and match components. You do it all the time. Someone may already have a great preamp and they just want to know what the amp does. Because a company makes a good preamp or whatever does not mean you will like the "matching" amp or whatever.. Look what you did with the Merrlll amp to make it sing. Of course, it would take much more time to A/B each piece......but I would NEVER do it the way you are. Of course, I really do not care which is better in whatever way, as these things would be never on my radar, even if I were a billionaire.....much more fun to make your own, and with tri-amping you can get rid of all those distorting xover parts and extra binding posts and tweak to your hearts content. "AS IT SHOULD BE" is just your opinion. There are no rules in high end audio. It is each man for himself. Merry Christmas, everyone!......may you all feel the peace, love, light and joy that permeates every nanosecond of every moment....forever, and ever. |
You sound like an antagonist today on this beautiful Christmas Eve. You ok? Everyone is having a great, adult, polite discussion without any sort of argument. I did the shoot out using matching components BECAUSE this is what makes sense since I have both linestages. We are trying to get a spoonful of the gryphon and boulder sound. I’m not sure why that is so hard to comprehend? The only discrepancy we were trying to figure out today was whether I should have used stock powercords or not with the Gryphon and nothing else. I think everyone here agreed with me that I used the correct linestages for this evaluation? Lastly, if you " really don't care " as to which set up wins because you would never own these components, then why even bother criticizing? Isn't that a bit contradicting? |
I was merely responding to your.."is not how equipment of this level is compared" Again, just your opinion. I don’t care which one does what (some would say wins) but I am curious as to what they do individually. I waited for you to evaluate the Merrill amp on its own....but it was never done....at least as far as I remember. It does not matter what you do. I choose happiness, and I hope you all do. I want to know what every single thing does.....that is how I learn. I don’t learn anything from A/Bs or two pieces of equipment. I don’t buy things that way and most of us don’t. For many, this thread is fun. I hope it remains that way. I personally, am interested in what is possible. For instance, I would never listen to the Gryphon gear without serious audiophile fuses. You are simply not hearing what they can do....and since they cost essentially nothing compared to the rest of your system......well.....I understand you are AFRAID of the manufactures taking you to audio purgatory if they ever found out you are using a non stock fuse.....he he. If you do not run each piece of gear at its maximum RPM then you will never know how fast it can go. A Gryphon piece with stock fuses is very compromised sonically. I would never say anything about an A/B with something else unless I ran each piece with all its governors off. Well, to each his own. Again, Merry every moment. We can all enjoy whatever game we play....and let others enjoy their games......its called win/win. Nothing wrong with your game. I play a little different....that is all. Enjoy the ever forever love. If you ever want to hear what a great fuse can do "for free".....I can mail you (for free) some copper foil with conductive adhesive and you can just wrap your stock fuses with it and listen. Then, after you realize what you have been missing you can buy some audiophile fuses to substitute. You could buy a few stock cheap fuses and then you can go back and forth between a stock fuse and a copper foiled fuse to make sure of what you are hearing. Learning is fun.....learning gets you goosebumps! https://www.amazon.com/Copper-Conductive-Adhesive-1inch-12yards/dp/B018RDZ3HG |
I preferred the Boulders' sound to the Gryphons' each time in multiple listening sessions. The Bs were cleaner, tighter, more finely textured, closer to what I hear when playing the song (first one) direct from Tidal, etc...than the Gs (which of course, sound great). Gs were a bit grainy relative to Bs, even a bit confused/hot/disjointed in the treble (in some spots) on songs 2 and 3. You mentioned in a recent video (while showing the acoustic treatment in your room) that you have no echo in the room. I read through all (I think) of the responses to videos on Youtube and here on Agon and didn't see anyone mention anything about an echo in your room. I am assuming (perhaps inaccurately) that you saying there is no echo in the room is a response to my talking about a room resonance (at the mic location) being helped/minimized by you switching the port on the Wilsons. Room resonances/modes are not echo/slap echo, mid to high frequency reflections that the panels you have are designed to mitigate. Assuming you have the typical absorption panels (correct me if not), those are most effective at mid and high frequencies. Unfortunately, the nasty room modes (based on your room dimensions) in the range (roughly) from 20hz to 250hz cannot be controlled effectively with 2 to 4 inch absorption panels. Changing speaker/speaker port and/or seating/mic positions can help but may affect negatively (hopefully not) other aspects like imaging, sound stage depth, etc..... Even though the port swap helped, I did notice a pesky resonance at roughly 2:13 and 2:49 of the video (yes, it was there at the same point in the song when the Gs were playing). Didn't have the resonance when I played using Tidal. Didn't try to listen for resonances on the other two tracks (perhaps with those songs those frequencies were not as pronounced). Anyway, not trying to do a treatise on acoustics. Others may take the ball and run with things like DBAs, helmholtz resonators, limp mass absorbers, chunks, superchunks, etc....The company/person that helped you treat your room should have given you a comprehensive analysis and explanation of minimally what your treatments will do but, as importantly, what they won't do. I know years ago people were pushing you to "get a dedicated room". You have a nice room, could be dialed in a bit more. If you like (for a small fee) I can set up a consultation! I am joking, of course!!!! Everything changes once you start getting paid for something, as you know! Keep your skin thick, Jay. Too often you take the bait with others. No response is usually the best response. Depending on one's personality, hard to do. A suggestion offered by another that I second is to not tell people which is playing (but don't change the sequence when switching between system one and two). Also from a psych perspective, keeping the lighting intensity and color consistent is important. As mentioned previously, I listen through my main system (OB, 3-way, fully active). Headphones, I suppose, are next best but still not desirable in getting the most accurately visceral experience. The best recording/mastering studios use expensive monitors for their work (yes they use phones too, but the product will never go out the door if it doesn't pass the loudspeaker test). Only a few have said how they listen to your vids...hmmmmm? Curious the percentage of people that use streamers/computers /(smart tv with quality audio out to speakers?) hooked up to full rangers? Great work. Thanks for the effort. |
I hear the Boulder combo as more neutral/detailed than the Gryphon combo. But I recall that Jay found the Gryphon preamp more neutral/detailed than the Boulder preamp. So this is a bit of an apples/oranges mixed comparison, which is confusing. The Gryphon preamp + Boulder amp would likely give the ultimate in neutrality/detail. Conversely, the Boulder preamp + Mephisto would likely give the most warmth. Listening should be done with 4 combinations to really tell--I am only speculating now. Suppose Jay wants the middle of the road package of good clarity and a little warmth--he would go with the complete Boulder package. Technically speaking, engineers might have valid reasons for their packages, but it doesn't follow that subjective listening confirms their technical designs. In the real world, as ricevs says, most people already have their favorite preamp, and then proceed to A/B power amps to see which they like the best. I condemn sales/marketing people who push packages, instead of advocating a more flexible approach of mixing and matching. In some cases, the package is the best--in others, it is not optimum. |
I’ve tried boulder 2110 and Mephisto and it was good but maximum synergy happens with pandora and Mephisto. There is also one thing that people have failed to mention here: WHICH CABLES IS JAY USING HERE??? Could you be listening to the cables through the boulder? Could it be that maybe the mephisto prefers the cables being used and the boulder is simply letting letting you hear the cables? That is something that nobody has mentioned :) |
Listened to the YT video thru my laptop and into my stereo system today. I found both to be top tier, and enjoyed the presentation Jay put together on this one. For me, my preference would be the Boulder given how it sounded more relaxed without giving anything up to the Gryphon (outer edging of notes on Boulder was superb). The Gryphon just seemed a bit sharper in contrast, which might lead to some fatigue at higher volume levels. I found the Boulder system to have so much finesse without losing any detail. Again, both great amps/preamps, and really no losers. Have a Merry Christmas Everyone. |
Instead of using nebulous concepts of synergy, it is more productive to objectively describe what you hear, like neutrality, clarity, focus, warmth, etc. I distinctly remember in one of Jay's videos where he said that the Boulder preamp is more musical with rounding of edges, compared to the Pandora preamp. It is probably not in print on this thread. Golfnutz just described how he perceived the Boulder as more relaxed than Gryphon. This differs from the perceptions of myself, mrdecibel and others here as well as on the YT videos. All this put together shows how it may be an apples/oranges contest, and I must admit that I didn't hear a BIG difference. So I still speculate that on the spectrum of neutrality/clarity/focus on one end at 10, and warmth/relaxed on the other end at 1, Pandora preamp + Boulder amp is 10, Boulder + Boulder is 9, Pandora + Mephisto is 8, Boulder + Mephisto is 7. Let's defer to Jay to state what he actually said about Pandora vs Boulder preamps, and then do the listening to the 4 combos I proposed. This is a lot of work, I admit, and mainly of value for Jay who will be making decisions about what he keeps and sells. If he wants to do videos on this, that would be great, but only if he wants our input on this expensive decision making. This will be a tough decision, because Jay and most of us thought that he would never give up the Mephisto, since he went to all the trouble of getting expensive stands and many types of cables to try with the Mephisto. Cables are a factor, but much more subtle than the differences between preamps and amps. Cables are unlikely to alter his decision between Boulder and Gryphon preamps and amps. |
FYI – I am using the same Shure MV8+ microphone as Jay. I didn’t want to post a 19 minute video to compare the songs that Jay had posted so I am splitting them up. Sorry for the inconvenience. https://youtu.be/ze4Enfzt9CE |
Full disclosure--I am friendly with faxer (Steve) who just posted this video of the latest GTA panel speaker with the open baffle subwoofers. This is the same song from the last Jay video of the Alexx with Boulder from the start. Easy to go back and forth. Steve just got the same microphone that Jay is using. I heard this setup at his place on Dec 23. I haven't spoken with him since that visit, and I assume he is using that new microphone with his phone, just like Jay. Here is what I hear. The GTA is much crisper than the Alexx on the voice and guitar. It is drier, which I think is more true to life. The voice on the GTA is more immediate and throaty, whereas on the Alexx it is more chesty, veiled, warmed and smoothed over. And this GTA is with the euphonic Lampi dac and Pass preamp and amp. Imagine the even more startling clarity with Jay's Boulder or Gryphon electronics, and the ultra transparent clear DCS Rossini. I predict that many people here will prefer the warmer, darker Alexx sound, but let's see what everyone thinks. This latest revision of the GTA is FAR superior to any Maggie ever made, for reasons that Steve can explain better than me. One added attraction is that the sweet spot is quite large, so 3 people can sit together comfortably on Steve's couch and hear very similar sound. The sound is slightly clearer in the exact middle. When I visited, I toed the panels in fully, so that the midpoint of the panels were aimed at my ears. The main driver on the panel is 8" wide, but the actual membrane is only about 5.5" wide. A narrower straight panel is the ideal for full freq radiation. I praise Greg, the designer for the best implementation of the theoretical principles I have talked about, and my objections to other large and curved panels on the market is now clearly revealed. Greg, like me, owned several Maggies over the years, and he wanted to improve on them. I congratulate him for his accomplishments. I am returning Dec 30 with my Rane EQ, Bryston 2.5B SST2, zip cord speaker wires, LiveWire RCA interconnects. With Steve's permission, I hope to make a video of all this, with different settings of my EQ to illustrate what I have been talking about. |
Viber, If you are raving about Steve’s speaker the way you are, why would you use a lousy 100 dollar rane eq on them? No offense but is your hearing so damaged due to playing violins? I would love to see the settings on the rane eq that you use. Can Steve post a pic of the rane settings you are using? I am curious to know if you are boosting the hell out of the high frequencies which is why you use a rane eq. Who pollutes a speaker that is said to be as clear as water by using a rane eq? Also, when are you cutting the check for the gt audio speakers? I mean, with all the leg work Steve is doing to accommodate your entire set up i would image you are definitely going to buy their speakers... It would be the only way that your comments would hold any weight here... If i heard those speakers in my room and was blown away the way you are and there was no doubt that i am head over heels with them, I’d be telling Steve that the check is in the mail as is the case with many reviewers. When something leaves an impression on me that I can’t get it out of my head, i move whatever it takes in order to make it mine. I really hope you do give Steve the business he deserves from you. If you feel that deep down they are not the speaker for you then I’d stop talking about them if i were you. It makes it worse the more you praise them and they are still not in your possession. I really hope he's not wasting his time with you. This leads me to share with you one of my future videos. It will be about WHAT DOES A DEALER need to do in order to earn your business? ( I will itemize these things) and i will also call out the bs that many "Audiophiles" pull with dealers. Many dealers asked me to speak up and i agreed with them as long as I can also call them out on their practices and they said "fair enough". I suspect this video will be one big controversial video since this topic never really comes up on YouTube. |
Jay, You are merely ranting, sorry to say. I didn't want to say this before, but since you brought up the Rane, I will tell you that on my visit of Dec 23, I brought my tweaked Rane, bought from mrdecibel, and put it in place of the Pass preamp. The Rane was first used as a line stage with flat settings, no EQ at all. I asked Steve to listen to the Rane using his familiar recordings. He immediately said that the Rane was more forward, neutral and detailed than the Pass, but most of his customers would prefer the laid back and sweeter quality of the Pass. Then I adjusted the Rane several ways to illustrate effects on vocal tonality, and HF percussive transients. He said the experience was an eye opener. In an upcoming video when I bring all my components, I will reveal more. He suggested that I take the Rane to our audio repairman to get better caps, etc. I don't want to touch my precious Rane bought from mrdecibel, but I will take my original Rane to the repairman. I thanked Steve for his great idea. YOU need to open your mind, listen for yourself just as Steve did, and stop your uninformed remarks about how a very cheap component can't be any good. I have praised your expensive equipment for their sonic qualities. Now it is time for you to show equal respect. BTW, I am one of Steve's doctors, and our friendship remains. How do you know any of your dealer/business contacts are really your friends? It is true that I have diminished HF hearing, but that is not why I boost the HF. I used the same settings I use at home for Steve's system, and he agreed with me about the benefits of the EQ the way I use it. That's what he heard with his ears. Whether I buy the speakers is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. Even if I don't end up buying the GTA, my analysis is truthful because I have no hidden agenda. You can listen to the videos yourself, be honest with what you hear, and tell us what you hear. I asked the others here to do the same. If some people prefer warm, rolled off sound, that is their privilege. I hope that this is still a free country after Jan 20. Most important, I believe that since you value clarity, although maybe not as much as I do, that you would benefit by considering the GTA speaker with 2-6 subs. I spent most of my time listening to it without the subs. I heard excellent mid bass from the panels alone. I brought a recording that has soft 36 Hz bass. It was there, although we both agreed that subs are necessary for low bass. This system does everything better than anything I have heard in my life. I told Steve and will level with you here, that I am not sure that the GTA quite equals my combined Audiostatic 240/Enigmacoustics Sopranino super tweeters for clarity at low/moderate SPL's. Of course, for large scale music, the GTA kills my speakers for dynamics, bass extension, realistic imaging. My speakers may be superior for small scale music clarity. I will know more when I bring my components to his house next Wed. I was still impressed by how even the euphonic Lampi and Pass still showed the superiority of the speaker compared to anything currently available. I can only imagine how your SOTA source and electronics would show off the GTA + subs. Steve is an honorable audio professional who respects his customers' needs for thorough evaluation, and routinely welcomes his distant customers to bring anything they want to his system. Most of the dealers I have met are nowhere near this degree of professionalism and true caring about customers' desires. I intend this post to be friendly and helpful, not as a troll. I respect your business goals and don't interfere with that. You can cultivate customers who share your approach. In addition, I sincerely hope you can appreciate the great accomplishments of the designer who I believe has the best speaker for nearly every sonic criteria, and one day seriously consider it. I am not getting any commissions for sales. I just want to share truth with people who share my passions. |
Ok viber... I’m not going to start anything but you should tell the general public here what you do with rane and how you pretty much use lamp cords for speaker cables and you boost the hell out of your rane eq on the high frequencies. I can’t go into more detail than that but it would be good that you tell everyone how you really listen to music: full blast on high frequencies and no folks I’m not exaggerating. That said, this doesn’t matter to me because it is your gear. What matters to me is that you come here to praise gt audio speakers, once, twice, three times, four times and on and on and you STILL are rocking some old speakers because you claim they are better at something than the gt audio speakers that you just listened to, have listened to and will listen to in a week or so? You might as well tell Steve you aren’t buying anything but you will give him discounts on his future medical needs for his efforts to accommodate you constantly. If you aren’t buying the GT audio speakers, there is no praising you can do here, on my journey, that will make people believe you. It isn’t the money ( you’re a doctor so you can afford them) so it is clearly that they don’t do it for you and you are just trying to do something nice here for Steve by dropping good feedback about their speakers. Be upfront with them before you go see them next week. Don't waste their time. Tell them straight up YOU ARE NOT BUYING ANYTHING. Don't mislead them. I’ll leave it at that. |
Listen up. I don’t care if anybody on this thread buys our speakers I really couldn’t care less. The speakers sell themselves once the customer comes in to our show room we don’t need this thread to sell our speakers. The fact of the matter is we are back ordered and the only reason we posted the video was I got consent from Jay to post videos because we were talking about the Shure MV 88 + microphones and how it would improve the audio on our videos compared to the iPhone mic. Merry Xmas |
I did give Steve the green light to post the video of his system playing the same music i recorded recently so that perhaps a comparison can be drawn. That said, the issue isn’t that, but rather the constant "ranchera" that viber plays here in regards to the GT AUDIO speakers which he now claims don’t do something that his vintage speakers do and which is sufficient enough for him to not buy the GT Audio speakers. I don’t believe there has ever been a single person here who has promoted a product so intensely (as viber has done) but yet they don’t own it ( while having the means to do so). Even tekton owners (greyhound) who actually owns a tekton speaker doesn’t come here praising it. He likes the speakers and most IMPORTANTLY owns them which speaks volumes about his beliefs. Another example is Kren who I don’t believe owns a wilson speaker but he likes it a lot yet you don’t see him pushing wilson. I’m sure if he could buy his dream wilson , he probably would have it right now ( if he doesn’t already). My point is if someone loves a product for x and y reason, they WOULD OWN IT if money isn't a problem. |
I appreciate Jay’s input. However, we are losing sight of a bigger more important issue that most dealers won’t take the time to accommodate the concerns and requests of their customers. Even if that means allowing a customer to listen to a pair of speakers with their own gear. We have even allowed this to happen in our store with customers bringing in gear to hear on inexpensive bookshelf speakers. I know Jay plans a specific video addressing the numerous problems that audiophiles face with respect to dealers. I look forward to that video. |
