2. amps-preamps
  3. 126624-10101

My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


jays_audio_lab
20,890 responses 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
No reviews at this time. The whole system is unplugged. I’ll be focusing on the room for the next 10 days. 
psnyder149's avatar
psnyder149
163 posts
 
WC,

There is a Valhalla 2 USB cable available for 1/2 price. I use one level below this (Tyr 2) as the rest of my system does not warrant the TOTL Vahalla. Your’s does. I have heard a demonstration of this cable with dCS and it is amazing. PM me and I will direct you to it if you’re interested.

Happy 4th!
tecknik
487 posts
 
The new Shunyata Sigma USB ?
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I am currently reviewing a USB cable and let me just say that I am incredibly blown away. I can’t put the words together , but just know that this has totally elevated my experience. It feels as if I have a brand new source. More to come. 
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jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
All-
i have noticed a lot of "drama" and lack manners on this thread over the last few months. Some of you (you all know WHO YOU ARE) have messaged me stating that you will no longer post because Viber6 has been too much to deal with and that his LONG AND CONSTANT posts are too much and not allowing for this thread to flow with more content RELEVANT to what this is about. I am guilty of derailing my own thread by reviewing some other things that are not amplifiers such as dacs or preamps, etc. However, please understand that there are 2 groups here fighting to control this thread:

Group 1:
Those of you who choose to sit back and read and not continue to post anymore because Viber6 has been totally annoying (i have been receiving messages about this by many of you ) and because he cant seem to tame his insatiable desire to post every other hour and make his particular posts as long as a chapter from Shakespeare. Also, MANY OF YOU are sick of viber6 recommending components he has ZERO experience with.
i have already privately addressed him to TONE IT DOWN and if he has to keep going back and forth with ONE PERSON, he can take this to private messages. No need to keep going back and forth if the conversation is only happening with him and one other person. I think he is also aware that many of you hate it when he goes on and on recommending equipment he has not even seen in person.

Group 2:
Those of you who side with Viber6 and who feel he contributes to this thread with his posts. i ask for those from Group 1 that if Viber is indeed contributing with something of substance that he has HANDS ON EXPERIENCE WITH to let him state his opinion as long as he is not creating another thread with someone else within my own thread. He has the right to post here as long as he sticks to everything stated above.


i hope this helps everyone here and for some of you (ron17, Paul, red, etc) to come out and begin to contribute here. It is always welcomed.
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zprr
306 posts
 
Have to admit I get lulled into thinking folks that post here aren’t affiliated with a specific company. That is my bad/naivety.  But I do appreciate, and I imagine others do, when people are forthcoming with that info upfront.
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jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
All-
Viber and company,
Please take your ongoing conversation to private messages. Thanks. 

Everyone:
I’ve been quite busy with family and the room. Next week I hope to have the air conditioning installed and the room painted which will leave the carpet for last. Once that’s all done, then I’ll have Comcast Come out to wire the room with WiFi and that will be my cue to begin to move my equipment inside. 
Unfortunately not much progress has been made this past week because we’ve had tons of rain and the room is as hot as a sauna. I’m not even kidding here. No fan or doors or nothing helps. It’s crazy humid and sticky so it’s almost impossible for workers to spend more than 4-5 hours a day. Once it’s 1pm, no water or fan will help you in the room. You feel like you want to pass out in the room no matter how hydrated you are. 
 I was going to have the ac installed last week but they had not primed the walls and there was too much dust from the sanding so I was advised against it but I think next week should be ok. I’ll keep you all posted. 
tecknik
487 posts
 
Id like to see WC jump in here with a good review of something so we can get back on track.
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geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
Mechanical feedback is the sort of thing vibration isolation solves. By isolating thecspeakers or the front end component. Much of what isolation achieves occurs in the physical or mechanical domain as opposed to electrical domain. The natural frequency Fn of platter, tonearm and cartridge are designed to be lower than the lowest frequency of speakers. Those natural frequencies Fn are circa 10-12 Hz. Unfortunately, structureborne (seismic type) vibrations contain frequencies in the 10-12 Hz region, so isolating the turntable from those vibrations would avoid or reduce harm to the sound when Fn of platter, tonearm or cartridge is excited. Next up we address the question of how vibrations affect electronics, including CD players, capacitors, printed circuit boards, electron tubes, wires and cables.
viber6
2,454 posts
 
viber7 and geoffkait,
I am not sure how relevant is the videography analogy.  Certainly if you are shaking when shooting, the picture is blurred.  The shaking is in the same geometric domain as the picture taken.  But vibration in the physical domain is in a different domain that the electrical domain of the electronics.  I have difficulty understanding how very small physical vibrations can influence electrical behavior, although I have experience with large movements of my hand holding an electrical meter seeing large differences in the meter reading.  I also understand the influence of electric fields on magnetic fields and vice-versa as in Faraday's law, I recall.  I wonder whether these low level effects from isolation footers/springs are quantifiable, although I am open to accepting the claims made by people that these things are audible. 
dasign's avatar
dasign
201 posts
 
Viber7 +2 On your last 2 posts. I’ve had similar experience with gauge 10 dedicated power lines, Furutech GTX-D (R) NCF outlets, power cords (Shunyata Reasearch Anaconda CX series) and isolation devices (Steve Blinn footers).
viber7
25 posts
 
With regards to isolation footers and racks, it’s sickening to see how expensive some of these items can be, sometimes more expensive than the components they’re isolating and so it’s easy to want to dismiss them but they can and do make a significant difference. The best analogy I know how to use is videography. For those who are into photography and especially videography, as you know, if you cannot hold steady while taking a shot or filming a scene, the resultant image focus will be less clear and details will appear smeared and with higher resolution gear, the detriment is all the more noticeable. It’s the same thing with audio and micro-vibrations aren’t just airborne but also emanate from the components themselves, especially large vibrating transformers in power supplies and so amps especially benefit from good footers. Isolating or channeling these vibrations away from the components should very noticeably improve image focus and detail clarity and it takes seconds to hear it.
viber7
25 posts
 
Regarding @spinaker01's comment:  "The power infrastructure is a good idea but effect varies depending on the quality of the house wiring (and external) components. I generally find newer neighbourhoods under 10 years old to be pretty good."

I agree that newer homes are probably better off than older homes with respect to power.  With time, circuit breakers, connectors, outlets, or anything else in the circuit with exposed copper will oxidize resulting in higher resistance.  But new homes, even within the last 10 years, very seldomly provide an adequate power infrastructure for audio, even with modest systems.

One of the most cost-effective upgrades I have experienced and can, therefore, recommend, is a dedicated line but not for the reason that most expect -- noise isolation -- but rather to lower line resistance.  And I have found this to be effective not just for power hungry amplifiers but for EVERY component in my chain.  Based on how you spelled "neighbourhoods." I presume you are not based in the U.S. but by U.S. electrical code definitions, a 20 amp dedicated line will have 12 gauge wire in the wall and so while some will claim they have a "dedicated line," according to Vince Galbo of MSB, "12 gauge wire is absolutely insufficient for high end audio systems" and that "the gauge of the wire is FAR MORE IMPORTANT than the fact that the line is dedicated."  For those interested in more of what Vince has to say, here is that link:

http://www.msbtechnology.com/faq/how-to-wire-your-house-for-good-power/

My present home is 10 years old and utilizes 14g wire in the wall along with inexpensive Leviton outlets.  Some time ago, in one of my listening rooms, I had 20A dedicated lines installed with 10 gauge Romex for about $300 per line including labor and was very impressed with the improvement.  More recently, I had more dedicated lines installed in this same room but also in my large listening room that houses my Wilsons but this time, I used 6 gauge wire in the walls.  This wiring is not the exorbitantly priced in-wall wiring that you can buy from JPS Labs or Audience or WyWires but was better than standard 6 gauge Romex and it cost me about $10 per foot or roughly $800 per line which is still much less than many power cords you can buy.  In one location in my house, I have a 6 gauge line within a foot of one of my older 10 gauge lines which is within a foot of a 14 gauge line that came with the house and so it became very easy to do an A/B/C comparison and so with my audiophile group, we did blind testing.  As I plugged my components into the 14 gauge vs 10 gauge vs 6 gauge line, it was impressive how dynamic contrasts improved but also by how the presentation became more relaxed, open and effortless and this was easily detectable under blind testing.  This is probably the most cost-effective upgrade I can think of.

As for outlets, they do make a difference.  The cheap Leviton Decora outlets that came with my house use fairly small gauge brass connectors that are conductive enough to power a lamp or a toaster but leave much to be desired when powering an amp or a DAC.  If you are going to install large gauge wiring in your walls, it would make no sense to keep the cheap outlets that came with your home.  I have found certain Hubbell outlets to be much more conductive simply because they use larger gauge conductors (I paid $50 each for these).  I am also very impressed with the Furutech GTX-D(R) NCF outlets which use much more conductive pure copper (i.e. no brass) which is then plated with Rhodium although these Furutechs are a touch brighter than the Hubbells that I have.  Also, the Hubbells that I have can accommodate 6 gauge wiring without having to resort to pigtails whereas the Furutechs can only accommodate a maximum of 8 gauge wiring.

When designing a dedicated room for either 2-channel or home theater, power infrastructure needs to be very intentional and it is much easier to implement it while the room is being built than after the fact.  

As for line conditioning and power cords, that is another conversation altogether and while these are important considerations for all gear, even if you have dedicated lines, rather than take this thread too far off topic, here is my journey with line conditioners for those who are interested:

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/i-use-amazing-sound-application-linestage-power-conditioners-...

For those who are skeptical about the impact of power cables, over the years, I have probably spent more time comparing power cables than any other component and even when subjected to blind testing, in the most extreme instances, I have found a power cord to make a greater difference than an amplifier upgrade.  Here is a helpful link:

https://www.gcaudio.com/tips-tricks/why-power-cables-make-a-difference/
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bill_k
930 posts
 
If you're referring to my deleted post above, I was only adding a link to the MD website but after posting I saw that you beat me to it. Nothing more intended, no mystery here. I have no experience with the springs.
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spinaker01
491 posts
 
Viber7 I agree with you on all points you mentioned. Room first, then speakers then amp. The power infrastructure is a good idea but effect varies depending on the quality of the house wiring (and external) components. I generally find newer neighbourhoods under 10 years old to be pretty good
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viber6
2,454 posts
 
vinny55,
I believe you are partly correct about tone controls, especially my EQ which helps tremendously with a lot of things.  Still, there are benefits I have gotten from power chords, speaker wire and interconnect cables that I can't quite get from EQ alone.  I like to do everything, which all contribute to the desired sound.  And we all agree that the room is very important.  Some people here think that various room correction software can do the obvious.  This includes bass EQ, but I extend that to the entire freq range, carefully done by listening.  As WC has said, deniers don't know what they are missing.
viber7
25 posts
 
I agree with @keithr. I subscribe to the viewpoint that the room dictates the speaker which then dictates the amp.

Of equal importance to an optimized room is a good power infrastructure (a good panel, large gauge wiring in the walls, highly conductive outlets, low resistance power cords, good line conditioning). Get these 2 things right and everything else becomes dramatically easier.

As for Blue Jeans Cables, I don’t know about this. Their analog interconnects are pretty bad.
keithr
1,306 posts
 
Love this thread is turning into cables, fuses, and footers vs. room acoustics for a new room.

Blue Jeans Cable in an optimized room will sound better than a full loom of Odin in a regular one. Once the room is taken care of, the rest can actually make sense. And its far cheaper than any of the cables 

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viber6
2,454 posts
 
ricevs,
Thanks.  I suppose audiophile fuses and power cords make the greatest difference since they are both in the signal path.  Which fuses do you recommend and where to get them?  Do fuses have their individual sound so you have to A/B various contenders?  I know there is a fuse thread but your summary would be helpful.  Thanks.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
i think footers and damping chassis on amps, etc really make a difference if you have the equipment to justify it. i dont think a marantz 8077 7 channel amp and the 8805 processor would have a drastic change in sound by doing the above. 
ricevs
1,543 posts
 

Some things to consider:

If an amp or whatever has a fuse then using an Audiophile fuse can elevate the performance greatly (some products will change dramatically with better fuses....others, not so much).  I would personally never test an amp without a great audiophile fuse (if it has one/several and can be accessed)..

All amps need the best power.  Power cords can make a world of difference.  If I was testing many amps, I would have many high end cords to properly match the performance.  Also, some line conditioners work with some amps and no so much with others.

Whatever you mount something on has a dramatic effect on the sound.  If I was testing many amps I would have various racks and footers to experiment with to achieve the best sound from each amp.

All amps with heatsinks can benefit from damping the fins.  If you run your fingernail along the heatsinks and you hear a "zing".....then that is the sound the heatsink is adding to the output.  I use EAR SD40AL constrained layer damping material in two one inch wide strips along the fin edges to kill the ringing......You can buy this damping material from Michael Percy Audio.  You can use other things to damp with, but this is my favorite.

Everything makes a difference......everything.  The more tweaking you do, the better the sound.  It does take time and patience. The more intense your desire is to really find out what is really going on...the more you will be willing to go the extra mile to determine what is really best (in all circumstances.....not just in audio listening).

viber6
2,454 posts
 
WC,
I remember that in the past you thought the ML 532H had great mids and suave but a little subdued highs.  The current brightness may be just the cold start, or the much more revealing preamp/dac that you have now may be telling the truth.  As viber7 implied, a soft preamp (like your previous ARC ref 10) may make the whole system sound soft no matter what else is in the chain.  If the ML 533H needs warmup and break in, you will know over time.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Interesting. First time I hear this. 
dguitarnut
136 posts
 
WC you do know there is at minimum of 3 months of 95 to 100Db music playing 24/7 to break in the room? All new surfaces are electromagnetically neutral and have to be bombarded to make the electron dielectric surface uniform in their alpha-sine sound wave reflectance properties.
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jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Throwback Thursday:
The Mark Levinson 533h just entered my room and is going through the motions with the Rowland preamp and K1 dac. It has been a very long time since i had heard this amplifier. i think i owned it at the very beginning of my journey and was very impressed by it. Anyhow, here are my thoughts on the unit from a dead cold start:

1. Clear, clean mids. (Mark levinson is AWESOME AT THIS).
2. Good soundstage width
3. Amazing depth and it seems to be almost creating a "surround sound" effect here. Whoa!
4. Bass is not as deep, but the amp has been playing for only 10 minutes
5. A tad "bright", but again this is a cold amp right now.


I will update my thoughts later on once it has been playing for a few hours. i remember that these amps sounded best after a few days of being plugged in. Without a doubt, the preamp/dac i have has great synergy with this amp.
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vinny55
259 posts
 
Why two vibers? Isnt one enough lol
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viber6
2,454 posts
 
No more pot, just a brief mention that mercury causes neurological damage which affects hearing, very relevant.  The damage can take many years to occur, similar to loud volumes, obviously relevant here.  

Mrdecibel always has valued input, and most of it relevant.
tweak1
3,685 posts
 
no pot discussion,  but rambling on about mercury in FOOD is ok? LOL
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pokey77
1,269 posts
 
Yes, please.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Viber,
Let’s keep things on target please? 
This discussion is closed
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