Bryston has a service center in New England so you don't need to ship internationally in the unlikely event that you need to send something to them.
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
The test that would be bliss , but that WC nor any of his audio dealers relations or blind cheerleaders will ever want to endorse is the following. A blind test of the Gryphon Mephisto against a Bryston 14 B3 ( 11.9K US msrp). Same everything in the system, powercord , db level, Alexia 2, preamp and dac, etc. I would be thrilled to go through his best audio demo tunes, and see him miss 1/2 of the time which is which. I would bring some aloes scalp calming cream, as he would be scratching his head big time... 😂 I would even be ready to put money on the table...Would you take this bet WC ? I would anytime. This is why WC life analogies will never apply to amplifiers...Speakers , yes I admit the more you blow the more you usually get. But amps, no way. |
@speedbump6 i would wait for @whitecamaross WC/Jay’s video today to get an answer of alexia 2 bass and whether he needs subwoofer or not now or down the road Having said that, no good hifi system is ever complete without a subwoofer. even 850k wilson wamm chronosonic system with huge drivers and better bass still needs subs. and subs are not just to increase bass or SPL , they improve the space and definition in both lower and mid bass region. since WC believes in continuous tuning, improvement and has an eye towards performance and perfection, there may be a time WC may choose to get subwoofers. |
@techno: Why dont we make that bet happen? one condition though, YOU BUY the Bryston and bring your cheerleaders from Canada (hey, i like Canadian women). I already bought the Mephisto. If that Bryston beats the Mephisto, i'd be the first one to say it. Remember, i am not married to ANY of this... The whole room could be empty tomorrow and i would STILL be alive the next day. It is electronics, toys, nothing to truly fall in love with. i don't think there is one component that i absolutely can not do without simply because i have tried so much that there will always be something else i might want to try... PS. Video is now uploaded and based on my youtube analytics software, i believe people over at Gryphon in Denmark have subscribed to my channel. Maybe they decide to send me some of the new cables they are about to release for me to try? hmmm.... it is a nice thought.. |
When the tourists can travel again, I could come to Florida and we could make that bet happen for sure. We will test your golden ears WC, once and for all and for real this time. A real blind test. If all those years you were right, you should be able to discern the modest 1/4 th. the msrp Bryston 14 B3 from the Gryphon easily everytime ! 😉😁 |
By the way , your last video only resulted in telling us the Odin 1 is a resolving but just too lean powercord to go on amplifiers of this caliber. Most audiophiles who have read through whats best forums already knew this long ago...There is just plenty of testimony there of big rig audiophiles that have ditched their Odin 1 pc for Shunyata Sigma series pc .......🧐 Ah ok, it also told us what viber are I are saying since we’ve been here...As good as ARC Reference preamps are, they are not onpar with the best dacs out there that comes with an excellent quality variable output stage ( dCS Rossini ). |
ron17, Yes, I am very picky. Anyone besides billionaires with money to burn should be picky. This pickiness doesn't just pertain to expensive audio stuff. Most people are picky about their mates. But not picky enough, since a high % of marriages end in divorce. Then it gets expensive and unpleasant. Most of the high end audio industry is selling expensive mediocre sounding stuff with poor resale value. I have found a few audio gems that offer more clarity/detail than many much more expensive things I have heard. WC may have found an expensive gem in the Mephisto. I follow this thread to hear about the gems at all prices. Many posters feel the same way I do, but they are silent because they are enjoying their high performance modestly priced stuff, and don't waste their time in the playground of these discussions. |
WC, No, after I bought my little Bryston 2.5B SST2, I tried the bigger 4B SST2, but it was inferior in clarity than mine. I didn't feel like trying the heavier upper models. Reviews suggested the heavier models had more euphonic sound, for which I didn't care to lay out money and likely be disappointed. Even though I could have returned them, I was beginning to wear out my welcome at those online retailers. More important, you raise important points about whether you need to spend lots more money on better supporting components with the top notch Mephisto. Certainly, the expensive Nordost Odin/Valhalla loom would make more difference with the Mephisto than with a mediocre amp. That mediocre amp could be cheap or expensive. I may recall you said this with a Pass amp (or another brand) sounding good with any cabling. The fact is that a euphonic amp like Pass or Dag or Luxman will always sound that way whether you use Nordost, Cardas or cheap Kimber, Audioquest. Sure, there will be differences, but the euphonic quality will still be there. But the revealing Mephisto deserves to be supported with equally revealing cables, etc. My friend made interconnects with his secret twisting and soldering technique that was at least as good as the Nordost Frey 2 IC I have, so excellent performers are not necessarily expensive. If you revisit the DCS direct, without an added preamp, after the Mephisto is fully developed, you may be surprised that this direct/pure route will deliver more detail/transparency than when adding the flavor of your chosen preamp. You may be breaking away from your flavorings, and moving to appreciate the pure sound of the Mephisto. Of course, this will save the big money of a fine preamp, as well as offer superior clarity and the like. A win win. With high performance cars, more money buys more performance for the moving parts. At least I respect the car industry for engineering, although I disdain spending money for mere cosmetics that don't relate to aerodynamic performance. I disdain much of the high end audio industry, especially for products where cosmetics is a big part of the expense. However, it is possible to get top audio performance for modest money, whereas it is probably impossible to get top level car performance for modest money. Even the Mephisto is much cheaper than the Relentless, which someone said underperforms the M. Who cares about the better looks of the Relentless, unless the owner wants to impress his fellow high class friends, instead of sitting down by himself and appreciating the music itself. By its nature, great music is an inner experience which transcends the social BS of impressing people with cosmetics. I would probably regard the Mephisto as a thing of inner beauty as I call it delightfully ugly. |
Class A from China > http://www.audio-gd.com/Master/XA150/XA150EN.htm Development started in 2004. Have you heard about it WC ? |
Slightly off topic but hopefully an acceptable digression Jay - just wondering techno if you own the Bryston model you recommend here or have heard it etc? I guess I am wondering why you think it will be a match for the Mephisto. Or is it more that you think it will be difficult to distinguish which is which in a blind test? Or is it your contention that generally it is difficult to distinguish various amplifiers from each other in a blind test? I reckon the best thing about this thread is that Jay actually listens to this stuff and takes us along with him on the subjective journey. A blind test would be awesome since it would add a few more data points to the whole exercise. Be great if you could get a few people in the room and facilitate it for Jay so that it truly is blind. I personally don't think Blind tests are the be all and end all but no doubt it would be interesting to see what happens. |
I personally do not believe in blind testing since there could be too many caveats regarding the testing procedure. See the following links explaining these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaosSiupd-8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG6LS9VDZlg Once Jay fine tunes his Mephisto, he will pick the Mephisto as the best amp 10 out of 10 times, especially if he picks tracks he is familiar with. |
Well, The video I uploaded after last night's video will make some jaws drop... It's a testament at what I have been saying all along. Inferior sources of information will get exposed and great recordings will bloom to the point that even your phone speakers will impress you. I had to record it to share with you all. Again, the cables are the same but the Merrill is now behind the wheel of the mephisto. Everything is STILL far from where I plan to take it and yet listen to the video and how insane it sounds as is. |
Oops, I made a slight mistake. A poster said he spoke to someone who chose the top new Boulder over the Mephisto, Relentless and a few others, because he thought the clarity/detail of the Boulder was the best. I would expect the Relentless to have the same personality as the Momentum line, which is euphonic. WC's experience is that the Mephisto is the most revealing amp he has had. I like his open mind where he wants to try a new Boulder. Even the next to top 2160 amp would be a fascinating A/B with the Mephisto. |
WC, Sell off the JC1+ to help pay for the new Boulder. The Christine, too. You admit that DCS direct produces wonderful clarity. Before I go to work, I just have to comment briefly on the 2nd to last video. At about 10-11 min, when comparing the Nordost Odin to AQ Dragon power cord, you say that the Odin offers the most clarity, but it comes at a price of brightness at louder volumes. Here's the principle--clarity across the freq range always leads to more brightness because more of the HF come through. There are no artificial peaks or edges. What you perceive as brightness with those edges, is really the lousy processed recordings you listen to. These recordings are processed so that teenagers with inferior speakers which are rolled off in HF, can get more snap. But revealing systems like yours reveal the poor quality of those recordings. If you listen to more honestly and naturally recorded classical music or some jazz like Chesky recordings, you would accept what I am saying. But even when playing natural recordings too loud, there is still some unpleasantness. Listen to the real honking horn of a truck. If it is too close to you and too loud, you get the HF unpleasantness as well. Nordost Odin is king of the hill--they know what they are doing. If you want to listen to your processed recordings, you will still get more musical content at modest 85 dB levels than using other cables and components which enable you to tolerate louder levels. When I tried the euphonic Classe D200 amp, it could play louder than my little Bryston, but mere loudness was boring because the exciting musical details that the Bryston revealed were lost. |
Techno, Technically, neither of us has heard at home the Dag HD, Christine, or Mephisto. Have you heard the Bryston 14B3 at home? If yes, how does it compare in sound quality to your Luxman M900u? I am placing a lot of confidence in WC's objective descriptions of the sound, to say that HD beats the Christine. He just said on the 2nd to last video that the HD is the best item in the Dag Momentum line. He previously said that Dag amps are euphonic, although the Momentum 400 less so than the S250. Someone here said the 14B3 is good but not top notch. Reviews suggest that the 14B3 is somewhat euphonic, and I agree with WC that most of the Bryston line is good but not great (exception is my 2.5B SST2). Look up the superb review of the $1500 new Orchard Audio GaN class D amp called BOSC. They may have renamed it. It is the type of sound I go for, if the reviewer can hear accurately and be honest. There are a few superb class D amps like this which are cheap, including my Mytek Brooklyn Amp, which probably outperform most of the dinosaur class A/AB euphonic amps discussed here. The Mephisto is a standout, the only amp I am impressed with, according to WC's findings. |
Based on what Jay showed us last night (youtube) it seems a bit nuts to my mind to suggest a Bryston (any model) would sound like anything other than a sterile bucket of sh** compared to the Mephisto. i personally thought last night's sound was knocking on door of 118/ref6se sound re: clarity but sounded overall better due to depth of presentation (i think 118's just a bit "2d" in presentation). like i think Jay is already all caught up. and we have: -pre-amplifier -cables -burn in yet to nail down. Online, people seem to indicate strong synergies with Gryphon cables and you know this guy is getting a decent pre-amp in (Pandora is my guess). So it is truly exciting to think where this might end up. Exciting times! |
Jay received his Gryphon cables today, plugged in only the xlr......he had to go change his drawers 2 seconds after the music started...I’ll leave it at that...more to come... Gryphon is killing me...i have so much more to tell you all but want to hold it back until I can confirm with my own ears... Only thing I’ll say is the mephisto is FU¢k!Ng SPECIAL. it is almost surreal at times because it really loves to tease me constantly. One minute it sounds so so and then the next song starts and I feel as if someone took me out of the room and put me inside a bigger room with better electronics. It almost feels as if it is telling me the lyrics of this song that my wife loves: "All I want is to sing tomorrow and every tomorrow...I know people make promises all the time and then they turn around and break them, but don’t act like it’s a bad thing to fall in love with me, cause you might fu@k around and find that your dreams come true with me...spend all your time and money... Only to fall in love with me" Yep.. I might be falling in love hard... If Gryphon is seeing this post, I want to give you all a BIG THUMBS UP. Many amplifiers, many many hours and thousands of dollars and I am here admitting that I feel as if I am standing at the point of the mountain today. I feel like as if your DNA is my own: Clear, transparent, muscular (yep I am if you are wondering), and going about your business regardless of what other brands are doing ( I don't look or post on any other forum so I don't care what others are doing) so yes I feel at home in many ways with Gryphon. THANK YOU |
And the merry go round of components keeps going round and round to eternity with no music in sight. No soul!! Until you guys don’t remove all the high frequency noise from the midrange, there will only be hi-fi. A total disconnect from the soul of the performers. Lack of natural warmth, image density, and lifelike speed tempo. Another member claims that clarity throughout the frequency range always leads to brightness, which is a correct statement. There is a cure, extreme grounding. Keep the Gryphon Mephisto amplifier and fix the foundation and discover true music realism. The amplifiers that Jay has heard in the past, will not pass the test. The only other amplifier that I would like to A—B against the Mephisto would be the Robert Koda Takumi K-160. Two heavy weight champs against each other. https://audioexotics.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/13089/robert-koda-s-ground-breaking-amplifier-匠... |
@whitecamaross its good to know that finally you have been able to nail the performance out of mephisto and i had no doubt about it that eventually you will be able to. but equally its quite alarming and is quite a shame than an amp of this high calibre and price would be so allergic to different cables, which will affect its performance. whenever somebody says that high end amp sound performance and synergy is so much dependent on cables.i think it poorly speaks to the instability and inconsistency of its power supply design & engineering. amp depending on high end cable is still ok.but to say it won't play well with odin or hurricane but only a few brands like gryphon or some thing else is not very encouraging as well. ideally an high end amp should work well with a decently designed cables where power supply transformer, filters & rectifiers should a stellar job of giving. a stable and predictable performance |
@goodsource: I respect that comment. I can understand where you are coming from, but I am a newbie at this level of artillery. Before , I was playing with m16 riffles and now I am with a 50 caliber machine gun. You can’t carry the 50 caliber machine gun and shoot it standing up in the same fashion you can with a m16 riffle. It needs a heavy ass tripod to support it on or it needs to be mounted on a tank or a hummer (HUMV) because of the massive kick and brute force. That said, it causes far more destruction per round fired. As you get up higher, there are going to be levels of requirements that were never asked of you before: more fuel, more bullets if you are firing a Gatling gun. You would expect certain top end machine guns to be able to fire under water right? But that is not the case and you could ask, why can you shoot a 9mm or m16 under water but not the bigger guns ? With so much power? Etc etc. Many arguments you can make about any sort of topic. It is relative and the mephisto is clearly no different. Manufacturers have their reasons and yes we can debate this, but only they know why they do this. Is Gryphon the only who does it ? I’m sure you know the answer to that... If I were to guess WHY they do this, I'd say partially to get you to buy their entire set up and also because they fine tune their amps to sound a certain way. I actually am writing my thoughts down about top offerings from different manufacturers and what to be very wary of. Believe, once they know you can afford their top stuff, they know you have the money to spend more and so they build more items that work better with their own stuff. The car industry is notorious for this. Try buying a McLaren and then you find out there is only ONE type of tire size for it and only one supplier. Again, they know they got you hooked and it is up to you to jump ship but often times it is hard as hell. |
@whitecamaross fully agree with you and love the analogy you quoted. and you are right, it's not only gryphon and other manufacturers also have these kind of kind of tantrums. appreciate your humility and fully thankful for your hard work and efforts to outline and highlight these issues around synergy which we need to be mindful of. one more angle i have heard from amp makers is they are not even aware of such kind of things. and other way to look at it as they have not invested in heavy engineering around cable science and power supply as its not their core area.they come up with a design which is based on assembling parts made by others and then testing based on a few cables or scenario or setup michael fremor used to say that, till some time amp makers refused to believe that power cable makes.a diff.michael said he had to bring them to their listening room and show them a demo to make them change their mind. |
for those who think Gryphon manipulates things in order to sell cable I think you are missing the nature of Mephisto. this is not some built to a price point product designed to torture people until they pony up for branded cables. it is the pointy pointy pointy end of what is possible and has been done re: stereo amplification. something like one in 1,000,000 amps sold will be a Mephisto. if it needs cable matching that's not a design contrivance I suspect but rather a fact of life when one is at the pointy pointy end of things. put it this way, all amps do better with cable matching. Mephistos ultra resolution makes that issue that much more important. I am looking forward to hearing this Jay. |
Here is the review of the Gryphon essence !!! Came out yesterday ! https://www.soundstageultra.com/index.php/equipment-menu/980-gryphon-audio-designs-essence-stereo-am... |
WC, Thanks for introducing me to that wonderful recording, Perhaps Love. Musically and sonically wonderful, even on lousy computer audio and phone speakers as someone said on your video comments. Sonically it is great because of minimal processing, yielding a natural sound. Even a regular resolution CD would sound great, provided there is minimal processing. This is the 1st time I have heard this recording, and I think you should use it when making decisions about what supporting components you favor with the Mephisto. This recording will show that DCS direct will yield even more purity/clarity than the Christine or any other added preamp. With other recordings which are highly processed, I can see why you may prefer adding preamps and euphonic cabling, because you hate the distortions revealed by DCS direct + Nordost cabling + Mephisto. But with this pure recording, this purist combo would reveal much more beauty, as well as some relatively minor defects, so the balance of good and bad would be much more in favor of the good. You probably have never heard an unamplified singer live close up. As an experienced musician, I have, and can tell you that the real thing is a mixture of good and bad, but the good vastly outweighs the bad. Only absolute transparency in all the components will reproduce this live feeling in the highest degree. Your concept of flavored synergy is not correct--you don't need to soften the Mephisto for recordings like Perhaps Love. Then when you go back to more mundane processed recordings, you will be able to still appreciate that the good still outweighs the bad, even though the good/bad ratio is less than on a great recording. Once again, your car analogies are leading you astray. As goodsource said, there is something wrong when an amp sounds great only with particular cabling and lousy with ordinary mid level cabling. But the truth is that there is nothing wrong with the Mephisto. Using mid level cabling and preamps, it will still give more complete musical revelation than an inferior amp with the same mid level components. A great amp is not a race car that is clumsy threading a needle. Its purity will let you appreciate loud, dynamic music as well as soft music like Perhaps Love, and even softer sounds like subtle brushes on drums. A high performance car is deafeningly noisy, a bull in a china shop. Don't think of the Mephisto in that way that it needs to be tamed and driven by only a skillful professional driver. |
And with the above review, you’ll see another review below that pretty much tells you in different verbage what I had sad constantly about plinius: it is killer for the money. How many times have I recommended the plinius sa103? I can’t keep count but below you see his references to how good these plinius amps are in case you can’t afford a Gryphon. :-) https://www.soundstageultra.com/index.php/equipment-menu/971-plinius-reference-a-150-stereo-mono-amp... |
The review of the Essence is interesting, but he only compares it to his MEMORY of the Mephisto and Antileon years ago. He is not of your high caliber, since he doesn't discuss the varying tonal qualities among Gryphons that others have mentioned, for example, the relatively euphonic Antileon vs more neutral Mephisto. For midrange and "feathery" HF, he finds the Essence to be equivalent to the mere $13K Plinius Reference class A. I don't think you would say that the Mephisto has "feathery" HF. If he found the Plinius bass rounded, then it is likely that the midrange and HF are rounded also, making the Essence just another euphonic amp. But your Mephisto sounds pure and extended in the entire freq range, according to your reports. So this reviewer doesn't have the ears or judgment to tell me all that much. You will be in a position to do a more definitive review of the Essence, comparing to Mephisto. I'm sure Suncoast will be happy to bring over the Essence after you refine your Mephisto setup. |
This one coming out soon is interesting. https://www.whathifi.com/amp/news/technics-has-revealed-its-first-ever-reference-class-integrated-am... |
viber6, I'm going to disagree with you on this one: "If he found the Plinius bass rounded, then it is likely that the midrange and HF are rounded also, making the Essence just another euphonic amp. " The reviewer made a point of calling the Plinius bass rounded -true. However, the reviewer also pointed out that the Essence does not have rounded bass.. Already, the Essence would be less euphonic, according to the reviewer's description and your definition. The reviewer did not mention that midrance and HF were rounded - you are now jumping to a conclusion that comes out of nowhere. Typically, you at least have some sort of logic to associate with your conclusions, but none here. The only thing I can think of is that the reviewer does say that the Essence does not have screechy highs. So, if your logic is that an amp without screechy highs is considered euphonic, then we now know how you decide what is and is not euphonic. Dave |