Speedbump6, I respectfully disagree. As per your comment regarding it doesn’t get any better, yes it does. I’ve experienced many systems worldwide personally from the Netherlands to Hong Kong that walk circles around this system. I’m sure the Boulder can be tamed through room acoustics, better ac management, better mechanical isolation implementation, ground conditioning. There is no end to pushing the envelope of performance.
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Showing 13 responses by himiguel
The foundation of a system is the most important factor before you can judge any component, speaker, or room. If these factors are not executed to the extreme level, you’ll spend a lifetime of misjudging gear. Took me about 30 years to fully understand this concept. This is the only way to unleash the true soul of the music, anything else is just different flavors. Everything matters equally cables(power cables, grounding cables, speaker wires, interconnects, digital cables, usb cables), amp stands, fuses, AC conditioning, dedicated ground bars, grounding conditioner, room acoustics. All these need to be address if your goal is true music realism. I have misjudge many components in the past labeling them as sterile, sweet, analytical. Maximizing the foundation will truly reveal the true voicing of each component. Most important from maximizing your foundation, is that the music timing and raw lifelike dynamics are closer to live music. No component or speaker can achieve this by itself. The words below are from another devotee of getting the foundation as close to perfect. “I am not interested in being right. I am interested in being spiritually touched. I want to see Jacky Cheung standing there in his quiet dignity. I want to hear the last wisp of Milstein’s bow. I want to experience Carnegie Hall arrayed before me with Belafonte singing and joking with audiences sixty years ago. That is why I always go for crazy length to reach uncharted territory. I don’t have the time to explain the justifications of pursuing this route. This topic is for someone else. We live in a sea of noise, now more than ever and tomorrow more than today. This is the march of “technological progress”. The proliferation of noise intensifies silently on all fronts to a degree no one can easily comprehend intuitively and logically. The founding principle of AE is to annihilate (1) ground noise, (2) AC noise, (3) mechanical vibration noise, (4) electromagnetic noise, and (5) room noise. Without tackling them by specialised solutions, there is simply no way to restore music faithfully to justify the value of any hi end system. And now after a decade, I need to deal with a new enemy that I wasn’t aware of - stray noise. Stray noise refer to any noise that is not on any direct signal path. They may be radiated from one component to another, generated by the signal/power pathways, and came from radio waves, parasitic noise on power lines, and transformers of light fixtures etc. Generally speaking, stray noises are of very high frequency and inaudible. But one knows immediately of its existence when they are absorbed unveiling new information. The design goal of the Annapurna board is to absorb and shunt radiated noises surrounding the electronics by means of a jewellery-grade external brass plate connected to an internal SEGP (Super Enhanced Ground Plane). It acts as an antenna to absorb immense amount of stray noises. The remainder of stray noises can then be shunted to Tripoint Troy NG series (There is a ground post at the back of the Annapurna board). But please take note that Annapurna by Pranawire is NOT designed to remove ground noises. Simultaneously the Annapurna board is absorbing mechanical vibrational energy by the top brass plate with proprietary damping materials underneath. The Annapurna board weighs 123 pounds. The IMPACT The Annapurna is tactically chosen to be used under the Robert Koda K15EX preamp. The preamplifier is at the intersection of everything. I hypothesise this is where stray noise is the most severe. The listening notes below always refer to the total cumulative impact of everything. Last item that goes into a system always catches the most attention. I am well aware of the context. The entire system breathes like never before. The sound appears from nowhere and grows to a particular shape and volume with its own constantly evolving colors, highlights and shadows. It grows to its largest natural intensity, and then gradually recedes to disappear. The orchestra behaves as a bursting fountain with ever changing colors and shapes that fill three dimensional space. When the space between musicians is clarified to this extent, the sense of ensemble is deeply reinforced. I could feel the power of the interactions amongst the musicians co-mingling with audiences. From the softest pillow-like pianissimo to intensely musical swells, each note caresses the ears. Violins nest at the top of the orchestra with woodwinds and horns layered perfectly below. Vocal interjections are startling. Vocal counterpoint floats in three dimensions. The timpani lends its weight in its precise location on the stage. It is part of a whole and distinct at the same time. The sense of intimacy, pace, rhythm, texture, unfettered dynamics and emotion is unlike anything previously experienced in spite of full assault on all types of noises at Divin Lab. This is a new category of product that qualifies as a “cutting edge game changer” akin to Dalby Pirueta Record Weight, Tripoint Elite NG and SRA Virginia.1 amp stand. My credibility does not allow me to speak this lightly.” |
Speedbump6, Annapurna is a new isolation platform made by PranaWire which acts as a ground sink. The platform itself could be connected to ground. Here is a link. https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/review-of-the-pranawire-annapurna-collector-platform-at-audio... If you only address AC conditioner/power cables only, you’ll never be able to get rid of high frequency noise in the midrange. |
Passive components have intrinsic non linearities due to their architecture and choice of materials. This is further exacerbated by their relationship with boards and other devices. As frequency rises electromagnetic coupling increases and causes further non linearities to occur. All devices behave as antennas at high frequencies and are subject to exacerbated parasitic effects. 1 GHz a 1/100 wavelength is 3mm, small enough to induce value drift in small components. So the environment of high frequency noise that all hifi components swim in cause them to operate in a non-linear fashion at the component and board levels. The Annapurna Collector/Platform functions as a more powerful antenna, drawing noise away from delicate devices allowing them to operate within their intended value range while simultaneously functioning as a very effective sink for mechanical vibrations. Don,t like active grounding solutions like Telos, Synergistic Active grounding block. To my ears they sound artificial. |
Horns, pure class A amplification, digital, on a old Rod Stewart limited recording. What do you think? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fVR_CbvhOEw |
And the merry go round of components keeps going round and round to eternity with no music in sight. No soul!! Until you guys don’t remove all the high frequency noise from the midrange, there will only be hi-fi. A total disconnect from the soul of the performers. Lack of natural warmth, image density, and lifelike speed tempo. Another member claims that clarity throughout the frequency range always leads to brightness, which is a correct statement. There is a cure, extreme grounding. Keep the Gryphon Mephisto amplifier and fix the foundation and discover true music realism. The amplifiers that Jay has heard in the past, will not pass the test. The only other amplifier that I would like to A—B against the Mephisto would be the Robert Koda Takumi K-160. Two heavy weight champs against each other. https://audioexotics.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/13089/robert-koda-s-ground-breaking-amplifier-匠... |
All kinds of copy cats to the original Tripoint Audio Troy introduced into the market place in 2008. Tripoint created this category and due to the success of the Troy worldwide, all these other companies followed. Anyone serious about creating music realism should listen to a Troy and compare it against the competition. I’ll let the music speak for itself. Tired of the same old hi-fi? Changing components over and over? Cannot hear the soul of the performers? |
No perfection in audio, pick your poison. I’ve been lucky to hear many systems worldwide in the last 30 years and few have moved my soul. Most dynamic loudspeakers excel at some hifi attributes, but are to slow in the critical midrange area to deliver the immediacy and fluidity found in live music. There is one speaker that even though suffers from dynamic expression in the midrange, is still a very unique experience. The Tidal LA Absoluta with diamond tweeter and diamond midrange has a see through pristine quality to them. The other downfall is that they are ruthless. I do like horns for their immediacy, and midrange dynamic expression but most horns suffer from the ultimate high frequency finesse. I’ve learned through my long journey that noise reduction is the key to music realism. The removal of EMI/RFI can make or break any speaker, component. The problem lies that most cables and devices in the industry are flawed in one way or another, different flavors. The other key element that needs to be address is mechanical distortion, another can of worms. |
My comments here where not to be negative or bashing. The perfectionist in me is always restless. Yes, Jay I agree with you. You have a better system that any storefront in Florida and any of the Axpona systems I’ve heard in the last 2 years. I would just like for you to push the envelope more. I understand your position, you’re not a tweak guy. At this level of electronics you own, please reconsider your approach. Other ways of pushing the envelope MSB Select reference dac, Wadax Reference dac, Wilson Chronosonic. Than what? Yes back to tweaking and system optimizing. Not to forget more time dedicated to speaker positioning and spiking. Lets go all the way!!! The sky is the limit for you. Up to you. Congrats on the Boulder. One more thing get rid of your current movie screen and replace it with a motorized retractable screen, this will help with image diffusion. Also more depth in the soundstage. |